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Detfri
12-26-2010, 02:38 PM
That's what I found trying to make order about the haplogroups that exist in Italy:

R-subclades:
R1b1c M269, associated with the Celtic, Italic and Anatolic peoples.
R1b1c10 S28 , associated with the Alpinic Celts and Italics.
R1b1a M1, rare, born and found in Sardinia.
R1a,associated with Eastern European peoples, found mostly in North-East Italy (10,4%). In lower frequency also in North, Central Italy and in Sicily (5.5%), absent among Sardinians and Calabrians, rare among Iberians (1%).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/94/R1a1a_distribution.png

I-suclades:
I2a1, the most diffuse in Sardinia but also in the Pirenaic France, Ireland, Castille and Sweden.
I2b, rarer, diffuse in central Italy, Belgium, Germany, Denmark, South Norwey and Sweden, North-West France, England, Moldavia and Eastern Europe.

J-suclades:
J2b, found in Southern Italy, Greece, Romania, among the slavo-giudaic peoples of Caucasus, Turkey, Ashkenazi Jews, Iberian Peninsula. In Italy it is associated with the Greek and Etruscan expansion. In particular, J2a subclade is associated with the Cretese culture, while J2b with neolithic Greeks. High percentage of J2 are found in the graves of Etruscans.

G-subclades:
G is found mostly in Northern India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran, Tirol, Sardinia, Iberian Peninsula, continental Italy (8-10%), Greece. In Europe and in Italy it is associated to the invasions of the Sarmatian tribes, all descending from the Iranian Scitios. Personally I consider this haologroup to be aryan.

E1b1b - ex e3b subclades:
In Europe, E-M81 is found everywhere but mostly in the Iberian Peninsula, where unlike in the rest of Europe[Note 12] it is more common than E-M78.
E-M81 is also found in France[2], 2.70 % (15/555), in Sicily (approximately 2% overall, but up to 7% in Piazza Armerina),[34] and in slightly lower frequencies in continental Italy (especially near Lucera)[30] possibly due to ancient migrations during the Islamic, Roman, and Carthaginian empires.

E-M78), formerly E3b1a, is a commonly occurring subclade, widely distributed in North Africa, the Horn of Africa, West Asia, i.e. The Middle East and Near East "up to Southern Asia",[Note 7] and all of Europe.[Note 8] The European distribution has a frequency peak centered in parts of the Balkans (up to almost 50%[3][22]) and Italy and declining frequencies evident toward western, central, and northeastern Europe.

Both are associated with ancient Egyptian peoples and with peoples of Sinai.


Is there something wrong? Any consideration?

Detfri
01-11-2011, 08:27 PM
Modern theory about the genetic history of Italy says that we are all genetically Italians.

It is correct to say that Italians don't descend from an "Italian tribe", but from an ethnic stock made of various Italic tribes. They didn't speak one language, but despite this they had a common origin and cultural backround. Rome itself was a mix of more Italic tribes: Romans were a mix of Etruscans, Samnites, Campanians and Gauls from Northern Italy. During the III century b.C. Romans conquered the Celtic peoples of Northern Italy, unifying the "boot". It is since that moment that it start the process of creation of the Italian people/folk as we know it today. In the year 7 a.D. the inhabitants of Italy are, according to the Roman Augustean census, an omogeneous and united people of 10 millions of individuals (during the previous centuries there happened internal migrations that levelled the people).

After the fall of the Roman Empire the barbaric invasions altered very few or nothing at all the genetics of Italy. The Caliphate of Sicily, after the Norman reconquest, saw the deportation of all the Arabic people to a little city of Puglia, in which they were segregated. The inhabitants of that sort of ghetto were slaughtered by the Christians 2 centuries later.
The biggest contribution that Berbers left was in Sicily (7,5%) and Northern-Puglia (6,5%). In the rest of Italy this percentage is only of 0%, 2% in the best ipothesy.
The descendents of Longobards and of the other germanic peoples are attested to be no more than 10% on the continent. The descendents of Greeks on the continent are very low. But they have importance in Sicily, where more than 37% of people seem to be direct descentents of ancient Greek colons.

A study of 2009 shows that Italians, together with the Finns, are one of the purest peoples of Europe and also one of the oldest, descending them from the ancient Italics.

About the (estimated) contributions of the various Italic tribes, their number in 600b.C. was so divided:

-130.000 Lucanians (are of modern Basilicata)
-570.000 Sicules (Sicily)
-450.000 Messapes (Puglia)
-200.000 Brutios (Calabria)
-200.000 Campanians (Campania)
-300.000 Samnites - Samnites of the Mountains (Southern Abruzzo and Molise)
-250.000 Oscos - or Samnites of the Plain (Northern Campania)
-600.000 Etruscans
- 1 Million of Greek citizens (mostly were hellenized Italics)

ROMAN DEPORTATIONS

After the wars against Celts of Northern Italy, Romans forced many of them to leave their native villages and regions, deporting many communities to other regions of Italy.
47.000 Ligures were deported from Liguria to Samnio (Abruzzo and Molise) and Campania.
After the Social war, Rome sent waves of Roman colons to Northern Italy (the number was fixed to 6000 per colonization) in the process of Romanization of Italy. The number of slaves attested was of 75.000 for a population of 10 millions. Most of them were Italics themselves, mostly Brutios, but also Sardinians, Samnites and Umbrians.
Despite this, a soft genetical difference between Northern and Southern Italy is still visible, as underlined by the genetist Cavalli Sforza.

The showed study demonsters also that Italians belong to the genetical family of the Europeans.

Detfri
01-22-2011, 03:54 PM
Romans, Alpine Celts and Belgae : close cousins ?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Recent genetic data suggests that ancient Italic tribes, including the Romans, were closely related to the Alpine Celts who founded the Hallstatt and La Tène cultures. In other words, the Romans conquest of Gaul was more like the final part of the unification process of the Italo-Celtic tribes.

Genetic evidence

The S28/U152 SNP was discovered as a subclade of haplogroup R1b about 2 years ago and tests have become more widespread over the last year. The original trend seem to point at a Celtic origin for this haplogroup, with a possible origin in the Black Forest or Switzerland.

R1b-S28 was found in the area of extension of the La Tene culture, along the Rhine, Moselle and Meuse valleys north to Belgium, around the Alps in Eastern France (Lorraine, Vosges, Jura, and maybe as far as Auvergne), and in northern Italy, known as Cisalpine Gaul by the Romans. The haplogroup was also observed at lower frequency in Britain, which is compatible with the establishment of Belgic tribes there prior to the Roman conquest.

But it now appears that R1b-S28 is also the most common subclade of R1b in Italy, even in the south and in Sardinia. It could indeed be the original haplogroup of the Italic tribes, prior to the arrival of the Etruscans, the Greeks and the Phoenicians.

The coalescence age for R1b-S28 haplotypes is around 3,500 years ago, about 1,000 years before the beginning of the European Bronze Age. This makes it possible for a common origin of the Alpine Celts and Italic tribes. Little is known of the Italics before the mythical foundation of Rome in 753 BCE.

In all likelihood, the ancestor of all/most R1b-S28 people lived in the Western Hallstatt culture, around the Black Forest. This happens to be the place where the highest STR diversity is found for this haplogroup, which usually means that it is the place of origin.

Linguistic evidence

This theory is further corroborated by linguistic evidence. Italic and Celtic languages belonged to the same Italo-Celtic family. It is known that at the time of Julius Caesar Gaulish dialects were still mutually intelligible with Latin, meaning that the two linguistic groups had not split so long ago.

Archeological evidence

Archeological evidence suggest that the Italics may not have colonised the Italian peninsula before 1,000 BCE. The nearest and most probable place of origin of the Italics was the Alps region, where the Hallstatt culture (1,200-475 BCE) flourished.

This would explain why Roman helmets and other military equipment, were directly inspired by Alpine Celtic ones.

The Romans became more technologically and culturally advanced than their northern cousins thanks to the influence of their Near-Eastern neighbours, the Etruscans (immediately north of Rome) and the Greeks (to the south). The Romans combined the best elements of Celtic and Greco-Etruscan culture and technology to become a superpower.

The Celts were said to be fiercer warriors than the Greeks, who were themselves stronger than the Persians (they never let themselves conquered, even in the heyday of Darius and Xerxes). Even Alexander the Great feared the Alpine/Danubian Celts, and made sure to secure peace with them before setting off to conquer the Middle East. The Celts invaded Greece a few decades after Alexander's death, and sacked Delphi in 279 BCE. Those were the same Alpine Celts that had sacked Rome in 390 BCE, and besieged it again in 367 BCE.

Until the 3rd century, the Alpine Celts were the strongest military power in Europe, and the fastest expanding culture. The La Tène culture spread well beyond Gaul and Italy, to Iberia, Britain, the Balkans and Anatolia.

If the Romans were in fact close relatives of those Celts, equipped with the Greek advances in agriculture, ship-building, military strategy, and political structure, it is no wonder that they defeated everybody else so easily.

Roman relations with their Alpine Celtic cousins

Many Eastern Gaulish tribes (e.g. Sequani. Aedui) allied themselves to Julius Caesar during the Conquest of Gaul. In fact they had long had good relations with Rome and were the ones who requested Caesar's assistance to fight other tribes. Before Caesar's time the Aedui had attached themselves to the Romans, and were honoured with the title of brothers and kinsmen of the Roman people. Perhaps it is no wonder that the Romans had the hardest time defeating the tribes closest to them, the Suebi and the Belgae.

This also explains why the Romans called the Suebi and other Celts of modern south-west Germany the "Germani". The Latin Germani comes from germanus (from germen, "seed" or "offshoot"). The term was used to mean that they were the genuine Celts (descendants of the Hallstatt and La Tène Celts), as opposed to the other tribes of Gaul. Or it meant that they, Romans, descended from the same "seed" as these Germani from the Black Forest, or saw each others as offshoots of the same tribe.

The Roman provinces of Germania match exactly the regions where R1b-S28 has the highest frequency, around modern Belgium (Germania Inferior), and around the Baden-Württemberg (Germania Superior).

This may be why the name Germanicus was used in the Rome aristocracy, like for Emperors Caligula (Germanicus Julius Caesar) and Claudius (Tiberius Claudius Caesar Augustus Germanicus). It may have been a reference to the Roman's origins in Germania. In any case they didn't think of these Germani as contemptible or inferior, otherwise they would not have named members of the imperial family after them. It was closer to an honorific title.

Conclusion

If this theory is confirmed, it would mean that the original Romans were an offshoot of the Alpine/Black Forest Celts, just like the Belgae, and the Galatians of Anatolia.

Detfri
01-29-2011, 11:28 AM
The world's maximum concentrations of J2a is in Crete (32% of the population). The subclade J2a8 appears to be native to Crete. J2a also reaches high frequencies in Anatolia and the southern Caucasus. A likely place of origin is northern Mesopotamia.

Interestingly, J2a* is found as far as India and is largely confined to the upper castes. The Brahmin (priest) caste is made up almost exclusively of haplogroups R1a1, R2, and J2a (although R1a1 makes up two thirds of the lineages). These 3 haplogroups have Bronze Age coalescence time and are thought to represent the gene flow of the Indo-Aryan invasion of the Indian subcontinent about 3,500 years ago.

J2 originated in northern Mesopotamia, and spread westward to Anatolia and southern Europe, and eastward to Persia and India. J2 is related to the Ancient Etruscans, (Minoan) Greeks, southern Anatolians, Phoenicians, Assyrians and Babylonians.

In Europe, J2 reaches its highest frequency in Greece (especially in Crete, Peloponese and Thrace), southern and central Italy, southern France, and southern Spain. The ancient Greeks and Phoenicians were the main driving forces behind the spread J2 around the western and southern Mediterranean.

J2 is thought to have arrived in Greece from Anatolia in the early Neolithic, or possibly even earlier. J2b perhaps originated in Greece (or in Anatolia ?), like haplogroup E-V13 (see below) to which it is closely linked. The propagation of J2b and E-V13 (as well as a minority of T) follows the diffusion of agriculture across the Balkans, the Danube basin, and until the north of France to the west, and Moldova to the east. Apart from south-east Europe, J2b is also found all around India, but only at moderate levels in between Europe and India.

Detfri
02-18-2011, 08:38 AM
A genetic research made by the universities of Parma, Ferrara, Venice, Florence and Pisa and published on "Moleculary Biology and Evolution " prooves that modern Tuscans and ancient Etruscans are not related.
The reason: the DNA found in the graves of Etrscan in the area of Maremma are different from the DNA present in modern Tuscans.

Italian article and audio-explanation in Italian here

http://www.moebiusonline.eu/fuorionda/EtruschiBarbujani.shtml

So what was the end of Etruscans and of their genes?

Although it is possible that some descendent of Etruscans is among modern Tuscans, most of the are not. Modern Tuscans cannot pretend to descend from Etruscans, Tuscans descend from Medieval Tuscans and between the fall of the Roman Empire and 1000 a.D. something changed in the genetics of people of Tuscany.
So while in Sardinia people mantain neolothic genes, in Tuscany the changement was big. Old theories said that Etruscans were from Anatolia or autoctonous, although phisically they looked like modern Italians.
It is possible that we know the genetics of only the richest Etruscans, a dominating class who arrived from the outside and that was enough rich to buy a grave. What we know for sure is that their DNA is different from modern Tuscans.

Detfri
02-18-2011, 08:54 AM
From Wikipedia

During prehistory Italy was populated by different but very similar Indo-European groups, later collectively listed amongst the Ancient peoples of Italy, of whom the Italic one was predominant.

Not all of these various peoples were linguistically or ethnically closely related. Some of them spoke Italic languages, others spoke Greek because of the arrival of Hellenic colonists, while others belonged to another Indo-European branch (Ligurian, Venetic, Lepontic) or were non-Indo-European (Etruscan, Raetic).

The identity of a people, as well as being characterized by notions of culture is also characterized by processes of genetic evolution. Following scientific research carried out by dutch genetists, Italy has proven to be one of the last two remaining genetic islands across Europe (along with Finland), this due to the presence of the Alpine mountain chain that, over the centuries, has prevented large migration flows aimed at colonizing the Italian lands
The modern man appeared during the Upper Palaeolithic. Specimens of Aurignacian age were discovered in the cave of Fumane and dated back about 34,000 years ago. During the Magdalenian period the first men from the Pyrenees populated Sardinia [1].

• During the Neolithic farming stable is introduced by people from the east and the first villages are built, the weapons become more sophisticated and the first objects in clay produced.

• In the late Neolithic era the use of copper spreads and villages are built over piles near the lakes. In Sardinia, Sicily and part of “Continental Italy” the Beaker culture, which probably represents the western branch of the Corded Ware culture, also spreads from North-West Europe,[2].

• During the Late Bronze Age in Italy appears the Urnfield or Villanovan culture characterized by the typical rite of incineration of the bodies originating from Central Europe, the use of iron spreads [3]. In Sardinia the Nuragic civilization flourishes.

• from the 8th century BC Greek colonists settle on the southern coast and in Sicily and found cities, initiating what was later called Magna Graecia. In the 5th century Celtic tribes from continental Europe settled in Northern Italy and parts of Central Italy. The Etruscan civilization developed on the coast of Tuscany and Latium.

• With the Fall of the Roman Empire different populations of German origin intruded into Italy, the most significant was that of the Lombards, who will try to unify politically the “Boot of Italy”.

The formation of the Italian peopleDuring the Late Republic and throughout the Imperial period in Italy was a process of genetic homogenization among the Italian peoples and the Romans. With the founding of new towns and the colonization of lands in Cisalpine Gaul and southern Italy, there was a significant migration on both the two poles of the Peninsula. The Romans encouraged the migration, as sought to destabilize local governments through forced migration. The Romans, realizing that Rome, meaning the city, could never alone monitor dozens of different peoples, with some initial resistance (which then caused the Social War), decided to extend Roman citizenship to all Italian peoples (with some exceptions) was the first step towards Rome understood not as only a city that dominated the world, but as Italy, which extends its domains throughout Europe. Following the Social War the remaining native population (Celts, Venetics, Oscans, Umbrians, Sicilians, the Greeks, Etruscans, etc. ..), obtained citizenship and mingled with the Roman settlers. Romanization in central Italy had been successful, so much so that many politicians and Roman writers came from that moment from Marche, Abruzzo and Umbria. Greek colonists in southern Italy, which coexisted with Italic peoples, were also immediately Romanized and colonized. In the Cisalpine Gaul the homogenization was slower. The phenomenon of Roman colonization in Italy was held for nearly six centuries and blocks of 6,000 households (30,0000 individuals on assumes) were moved from South to North and vice versa, descendants of Roman settlers living in the north (some times with good amount of gallic genes and Etruscan) were moved to South so flows from North to South lasted for centuries.

Genetic composition of Italians Y-DNAPercentages of the various Y-DNA haplogroups (male) to which belong the Italians [4] .

R1b R1a I1 I2a I2b J T G E3b
% 49% 2,5% 2,5% 3% 1% 20% 4% 7% 11%

Haplogroups R1b, R1a and I are present in Europe since Paleolithic while haplogroups J, T, G, E3b are present in Europe since the Neolithic
Y-DNA genetic diversityThe two extremes of the Peninsula demonstrate a difference in genetics in part resolved during the 19th and 20th century because of strong internal migration from South to North. In the alpine zone, most of the Po Valley, Emilia and Romagna, more than half of the population belongs to Haplogroup R1b. This percentage drops gradually in central Piedmont and in central Tuscany (less than 50%) coming in very low percentages in western Liguria and south-central peninsula (25%), mainly in the south (14% in Calabria and Sicily ).

Distribution of Italian Y-chromosome DNA (Y-DNA) haplogroups by region in percentage [5].

Region I1 I2a I2b R1a R1b G2a J2 J1 E1b1a T + (L) Q
North Italy 6% 2.5% 2.5% 3.5% 55% 2.5% 11.5% 0.5% 11% 4.5% 0%
Central Italy 3% 2% 5% 3.5% 43% 8.5% 19.5% 2% 10% 3.5% 0%
South Italy 2.5% 2.5% 2.5% 2.5% 29% 8.5% 23.5% 5% 18% 5.5% 0%
Sicily 3% 1% 1% 4.5% 30% 5.5% 26.5% 4% 17.5% 6% 1%
Sardinia 0% 37% 0% 0% 22% 15% 10% 2.5% 10% 1.5% 2%

Prevailing in Liguria (37%) and in the south of the peninsula are haplogroups J2 and E3b that in some parts of Calabria, Sicily and Lucania reached percentages ranging from 40% to 50%, while virtually absent in Molise (0% -7%) and sparsely distributed in northern Campania among Benevento, Avellino (17%) and Naples (27%). A fair distribution of these haplogroups is also present in central Italy (Lazio, Umbria and the Abruzzi) and the southern Piedmont: from 37% to 27%.

According to modern genetic investigation the high presence of these haplogroups in South Italy was due partly to the Greek colonization whom took place in the classical era, approximately 37% of the Sicilians, in fact, directly descended from settlers of Magna Graecia [6]. Haplogroups J2 and E3b are particularly common in the Near East where it is believed to have originated. In Europe they are also present in low average percentage among the French, the Austrians, the Czechs and the Balkanic peoples [7] . In Central Italy prevails the “Italic” component especially in Tuscany and Marche which have more affinity with the North than with the South, while Lazio and Umbria are presented as a encounter zone between North and South.

However, contradicting this, a 2004 study by Semino et al showed the opposite: that Italians in North-central regions (like Tuscano and Emiliano-Romagno) had a higher concentration of J2 than their Southern counterparts (as well as their farther Northern counterparts). North-central had 26.9% J2, whereas Calabria (a far Southern region) had 20.0%, Sardinia had 9.7% and Sicily had 16.7%.[8] This could be because of the ancient Etruscans, who some think originated in the Near East.

Migration High Medieval Y-DNAMigrations occurred on Italian soil since the fall of the Roman Empire until 1000 AD have probably not significantly altered the gene pool of the Italian people, despite the goths and lombards bringing much new blood to the italians of the north it is estimated that the I1 haplogroup associated with the Germanic peoples is present among Italians in the north in the order of 2-3% and from 1 to 1.5% among Italians in the south [9]. Other haplotypes that could be penetrated in Italy together with the German invaders are haplogroup R1a which belongs to 2.5% of Italians and some subclades of the R1b Haplogroup (in particular the subclade R1b1c9 that owns 3.5% of Italians [10] and is particularly widespread among the peoples of north-west Italy) but because these haplogroups are just mentioned fairly commonly in other European ethnic groups it is difficult to establish whether they have been really brought into Italy by Germanic peoples or by other peoples (eg Slavs). The Germanic or Nordic heritage among the Italians then wanders around 5-10%.

In sicily further migrations from the vandals,normans and Saracens have only slightly affected the ethnic composition of the Sicilian people, the Arab civilization flourished undisturbed for nearly a century and the impact of Arab-Berber colonization occurred in a more intense but not, however, significantly altering the original ethnic composition of the island [11]. Ultimately, the Berber contribution is estimated at 7.5% in Sicily, 6.5% in Northern Apulia , 4.8% in Eastern Campania, it is to underline the fact that previous studies conducted in the same areas gave lesser ratios. The other regions have lower percentages, ranging from 0 to 2% [12][13] .This period was followed by centuries of norman rule that would transform sicily into "the jewel of the mediterranean.

Genetic composition of Italians mtDNAPercentages of mtDNA haplogroups (female) among Italians:

H V J T U K I W X2 others
% 33,5% 4,5% 7,5% 12% 12,5% 7% 2% 2,5% 2% 16,5%

In Italy as elsewhere in Europe the most common haplogroup is haplogroup H originated probably about 20,000 years ago in southern Europe or in the Near East. Follow the haplogroup V originated in Iberia 15,000 years ago, haplogroup J originated in the Near East or the Caucasus, W (north-east 25.000 years ago), T (Mesopotamia 17.000 years ago), U (Western Asia 60.000 years ago), I (30,000 years ago probably in Europe), K (16.000 years ago in the Near East), X2 (over 30,000 years ago in north-east Europe) [14][15]. African Haplogroup L lineages are relatively infrequent (1% or less) throughout Italy with the exception of Latium, Volterra, Basilicata and Sicily where frequencies between 2 and 3% have been found[16].

The contribution of Italians in rebuilding Europe's mtDNARecent studies have shown that Italy has played an important role in the recovery of 'Western Europe” at the end of the Last glacial period. The study focused mitochondrial U5b3 haplogroup discovered that this female lineage had in fact originated in Italy and that then expanded from the Peninsula around 10,000 years ago towards Provence and the Balkans. In Provence, probably between 9000 and 7000 years, it gave rise to the haplogroup subclade U5b3a1. This subclade U5b3a1 later came from Provence to Sardinia by obsidian merchants, as it is estimated that 80% of obsidian found in France comes from Monte Arci in Sardinia reflecting the close relations that were at the time of these two regions. Still about 4% of the female population in Sardinia belongs to this haplotype [17

Prengs
02-18-2011, 10:40 AM
http://imageshack.us/f/819/yhapitaly.jpg

Don
02-18-2011, 11:55 AM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/94/R1a1a_distribution.png

I like this map.

The greatest Empires of Europe and the World (favouring France), el Español and the British, correlate perfectly with the blood in here. The Western/atlantics, the ancient People from the limits of the World.

Prengs
02-18-2011, 04:32 PM
http://www.imgup.com/?di=1512980464226

safinator
07-04-2012, 02:36 PM
Does anyone have details about Y-DNA of Apulians?

Pallantides
07-05-2012, 09:39 PM
The Western/atlantics, the ancient People from the limits of the World.

Did you catch this:

http://eurogenes.blogspot.com.au/2012/06/ancient-dna-from-iberian-mesolithic.html

Two Mesolithic skeletons from North-western Spain have been successfully tested for autosomal DNA, and compared to extant Europeans. The results, published in Current Biology (http://www.cell.com/current-biology/abstract/S0960-9822%2812%2900650-1), showed that they were outside the range of modern European genetic variation, but much more similar to modern Northern Europeans than to Iberians. Apparently, they were also closely related to Mesolithic hunter-gatherers from Northern and Central Europe. That's basically the angle that Science Now (http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2012/06/ancient-hunter-gatherers-kept-in.html?ref=hp) has taken in covering the story:

Although the first farmers spread quickly across Europe, trading and exchanging culture across thousands of kilometres, many researchers had assumed that Mesolithic nomadic hunter-gatherers lived in small, isolated bands with little contact over long distances. But the genetic picture, Lalueza-Fox says, suggests "highly mobile" groups that kept in touch and interbred continent-wide.

These are interesting outcomes, because modern North, Central and East Europeans produce a very strong “Northern European” cluster in ADMIXTURE analyses. This cluster usually peaks in Baltic-speaking groups, like Lithuanians, and is difficult to break down (see here (http://eurogenes.blogspot.com.au/2012/04/prehistoric-scandinavians-genetically.html)). Also, it correlates very well with clusters that peaked in Swedish hunter-gatherers analysed recently by Skoglund et al. (see here). As a result, I have no doubt that this modern ADMIXTURE cluster is largely of Mesolithic hunter-gatherer origin, and its widespread range in Europe today is at least partly due to the fact that hunter-gatherers from across Europe were very similar genetically.

In this study, the ancient DNA wasn’t compared to Lithuanian samples, which is a shame. Instead, the authors used data from the 1000 Genomes Project, which includes Finns. However, they oversampled the Finns when running their intra-European PCAs. This showed clearly that Finns were different from other Europeans, largely due to fairly recent factors like founder effect and drift, but provided very little information about the hunter gatherers.

gold_fenix
07-05-2012, 09:46 PM
In one of the image i see a problem, very low amount of Iberian, so we have 2 possibilities one that they haven't sufficient samples of iberian or two, that really the rest of iberian are far of the mesolithic specimen then the rest of iberian should to be showed to check that really they have a good amount of iberian samples and show the veracity of the study

safinator
06-29-2013, 07:38 PM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-hMKZHlq141g/Uai2eteFicI/AAAAAAAAI14/Qul2-rSPeZA/s1600/Figure_S1.png

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-MWmAskEgse0/Uai37lE3ohI/AAAAAAAAI2I/JlgvVTbQcwE/s640/haplogroups_italy.png

Carlos
06-29-2013, 07:53 PM
i got ydna I1 and mtdna H7a