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European Loyalist
02-21-2012, 01:39 AM
There is as much that separates European cultures as binds them, if not more. It's a common colonial misconception that Europe is one big happy family. Europe is often spoken of as a single country rather than as a diverse continent.

I would say speaking of Europe as a single country is ignorant and insulting, and I'm not even European. So that's definitely not my view. And of course Europe is not one big happy family. But there is a common European community, which is not at all new and which has seen a great deal of convergence in the past century.


How much do the Dutch or Norwegians have in common with Albanians and Turks, for example? We live on the same continent, but some would say we're a world apart in many ways.

What you're raising here is an important point. Regionalism clearly exists in Europe. My point was that each country in Europe does not exist in a vacuum. Rather they exist in relation to several other states around them or in their region (such as Norway in Scandinavia and Western Europe). There also exists a European community which spans the entire continent, although generally with the exclusion of Turkey and some other countries/nations on the periphery.

A great example of this comes to mind, I spoke to a Danish exchange student recently who said that in their schools they have to learn at least one foreign language (German, English or Dutch I think she said) because it's important to be able to participate in that highly integrated region.

riverman
02-21-2012, 01:39 AM
It is not your place to ask us to do this. Sorry. Here, I respectfully disagree.

Even you must realize that America and the rest of the New World was not born in a vacuum. Our founders came from somewhere. I have every right to feel an interest in that aspect of MY heritage. It's MINE, dammit....and not yours.

I would NEVER tell you, a Dutchman, how to feel about your *jus sanguinis*, so please return the favor and do not tell me, a colonial, how to feel about my heritage or ancestry. It's not fair of you to do., because it is not yours...it is mine.

Thank you:)
Totally agree Rhiannon!

People like that try to dictate how other people identify. It's b.s. Many europeans have this strange attitude about Americans, it's probably just brainwashing from their "education" or something/ :D

Luke
02-21-2012, 01:39 AM
Think very,very,carefully about it. What if she looked like this:

http://www.imagesforfree.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Eye-Makeup-for-Blue-Eyes-and-Blonde-Hair-1.gif

Well ya that lady I could buck it out of her through me and purify her through me I think.

StonyArabia
02-21-2012, 02:28 AM
It depends if their is true love involved why not!

Jon Snow
02-21-2012, 03:19 AM
You seem to purposely ignore the fact that race is not a matter here but just a colonial obsession in order to hide the fact that you have no ethnicity whatsoever.

Race will come to feature more prominently in European identity politics as the multiculturalists strengthen their stranglehold on the Old World. Those Europeans who don't yet realize it will come to see that they're all in the same sinking boat, and that they have much more in common than they might have at first realized.

rhiannon
02-21-2012, 04:47 AM
I just wonder: what good is it for Americans to claim something which isn't yours to begin with ? Because that is what it is: some 5th generation American claiming to be Dutch would be laughed out of house. Even the bloody cows would be laughing.It is ours to claim if we have ancestors who hail from that nation. This is not the same as claiming to be *Dutch* in the way you are Dutch, Civis:) But to tell us we have no right to feel any sort of positive sense of affiliation or whatnot is, IMO, wrong-headed on your part....and not your place.....as it is not your own heritage I am speaking of.


That's the thing with a lot of Americans coming to Europe with all these romantic and misguided notions about a country they don't even know. I think Hevneren recognises this when I say this: every bloody American tourist thinks that we all wear clogs and live in windmills and grow tulips or, particularly the young tourists, all grow cannabis and visit prostitutes as a daily passtime and finish it off with Heineken and abortion. It's annoying because everything is based on ridiculous stereotypes brought to the American public by FOX news. Think about this: visit the country where your ancestors came from and then think about whether you have any actual heritage there.
I have visited three of them:) Assuredly, just so you know, I am not one of those Americans. We are not all cut from the same cookie cutter....KWIM?


It may be a brutal thing to say but I guess that few Americans that claim to have a heritage somewhere actually know the country and speak the language. The only exception to that being some Italian Americans.It doesn't mean we have no interest in learning the language, however. I took German in high school and college....German is part of my ancestry as well.....sadly, however, living in a country where very few people actually speak German publicly, it has been difficult for me to retain what I learned:( That is not completely my doing. Now, if I traveled to Germany for a longer period than I got to stay before.....my bet is that much of the language would actually come back to me:thumb001:

rhiannon
02-21-2012, 04:52 AM
You are not proud of being Germanic and Celtic so you call yourself names and want people to be mixed race and mixed race people have many health problems as I posted here.

CV, with due respect, you know nothing of how I feel about my heritage. What you are taking as lack of pride is really just my self-deprecating style of expression. Just leave it at that.

I don't hate myself or my ancestors. Why the hell would I do something that stupid? Without my ancestors, I'd not be here at all to debate the issue with you;)

rashka
02-21-2012, 05:02 AM
Too bad russians are on average 3% Mongoloid.
Mongols reached Europe too during the middle ages, in case you have forgotten (huns, avars, tatars...). They too left their legacy amongst the Central Europeans.

In the History of the English Speaking Peoples, Winston Churchill wrote:


But Asia too was marching against the West. At one moment it had seemed as if all Europe would succumb to a terrible menace looming up from the East. Heathen Mongol hordes from the heart of Asia, formidable horsemen armed with bows, had rapidly swept over Russia, Poland, Hungary, and in 1241 inflicted simultaneous crushing defeats upon the Germans near Breslau and upon European chivalary near Budapest. Germany and Austria at least lay at their mercy. Providentially in this year the Great Khan died in Mongolia; the Mongol leaders hastened back the thousands of miles to Karakorum, their capital, to elect his successor, and Western Europe escaped.

zack
02-21-2012, 05:19 AM
Mongols reached Europe too during the middle ages, in case you have forgotten (huns, avars, tatars...). They too left their legacy amongst the Central Europeans.

In the History of the English Speaking Peoples, Winston Churchill wrote:


But Asia too was marching against the West. At one moment it had seemed as if all Europe would succumb to a terrible menace looming up from the East. Heathen Mongol hordes from the heart of Asia, formidable horsemen armed with bows, had rapidly swept over Russia, Poland, Hungary, and in 1241 inflicted simultaneous crushing defeats upon the Germans near Breslau and upon European chivalary near Budapest. Germany and Austria at least lay at their mercy. Providentially in this year the Great Khan died in Mongolia; the Mongol leaders hastened back the thousands of miles to Karakorum, their capital, to elect his successor, and Western Europe escaped.

Shhh..... don't tell him that.

rhiannon
02-21-2012, 08:39 AM
Indeed. My childhood home was built in the 1790's and still stands today. Many of the regular homes in my town are from the late/mid 1700's to the early 1800's. The neighbour's house was considered worthy of preservation as it was over 250 years old. Sadly, it was moved due to some monstrosity of a shopping centre. :mad:
Way cool.
I got a sense of the real age difference while I was in Europe. For example, we were in Heidelberg on my late father's bday, hanging out at the pub he used to hang out in during the time he was stationed in Germany (during the Korean War)....found out that very pub had been standing since the 1700s:)

Of course, nothing was as spectacular to me as going inside a Norwegian Stave Church that had been built in the 1200s......or Niederos Cathedral:thumbs up Those places had me in total awe....and I'm not even Christian...lol


I heard somewhere (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that Americans consider anything above 200 years old "ancient", whereas here this is of course commonplace. Yes....anything over 200 years here is pretty well ancient by our standards, lol.

Our oldest college is Harvard, or so I think.....it was founded in 1636!


that we're cowards for not having the death penaltyWell....even you have to admit that Breivik certainly deserves the death penalty for his crimes against your nation. It's too bad he won't get it.:mad: Here, he'd be a dead man. Our methodology has its place....in the proper circumstance.

The Lawspeaker
02-21-2012, 08:46 AM
Race will come to feature more prominently in European identity politics as the multiculturalists strengthen their stranglehold on the Old World. Those Europeans who don't yet realize it will come to see that they're all in the same sinking boat, and that they have much more in common than they might have at first realized.
It will probably not. You as an American are completely unable to understand Europe which is a lot more complicated then the U.S.

So have no illusions: politics will become more centred around ethnicities and nationalities.

The Lawspeaker
02-21-2012, 08:55 AM
It is ours to claim if we have ancestors who hail from that nation. This is not the same as claiming to be *Dutch* in the way you are Dutch, Civis:) But to tell us we have no right to feel any sort of positive sense of affiliation or whatnot is, IMO, wrong-headed on your part....and not your place.....as it is not your own heritage I am speaking of.
I have seen plenty of Americans use "English" to describe themselves as if they are English - and the same goes for people describing themselves as German. I have seen a Canadian here on this forum call himself Italian eventhough real Italians rebuked him. Heritage is not just blood, there is a lot more in that: what language you spoke at home. Whether the traditions were kept intact. Whether you visited the old country.

And I am not speaking in the "Irish American way": Woooho I am Irish because I am getting drunk on Paddies day ! That sort of thing.


I have visited three of them:) Assuredly, just so you know, I am not one of those Americans. We are not all cut from the same cookie cutter....KWIM?
Unfortunately most of your countrymen that come here are. Their lack of knowledge or even respect is astounding.


It doesn't mean we have no interest in learning the language, however. I took German in high school and college....German is part of my ancestry as well.....sadly, however, living in a country where very few people actually speak German publicly, it has been difficult for me to retain what I learned:( That is not completely my doing. Now, if I traveled to Germany for a longer period than I got to stay before.....my bet is that much of the language would actually come back to me:thumb001:
Unless you were raised with German as one of the languages that you were spoken too as a child German is not your native tongue.

Suppose I would marry an American (lol) and my child would be raised in the States and visiting the family in the Netherlands a couple of times a year and learning both Dutch and English as a native speaker. We celebrate Sinterklaas along with the Fourth of July and he knows the land his father came from (the stories attached to it, the national myths, Dutch history, the general culture and etiquette and lives it without giving it much thought because it is perfectly normal to him) as good as any Dutchman while knowing America was well.. then he could be considered Dutch - particularly if he holds two passports.

But his grandchild or even his child (if his wife is American) is not Dutch. They only know the country through stories and never learned Dutch at home. Ethnicity here is a complicated thing - much more complicated then Americans think.

Now that I think of that: if an American wants to return "home" do the litmus test and apply for a passport and see how "English", "Dutch, "German" or "Italian" you really are. I can assure you that only a very select few with direct ancestry would pass.

rhiannon
02-21-2012, 09:09 AM
I have seen plenty of Americans use "English" to describe as if they are English. I have seen a Canadian here on this forum call himself Italian eventhough real Italians rebuked him. Heritage is not just blood, there is a lot more in that: what language you spoke at home. Whether the traditions were kept intact. Whether you visited the old country.Yes, you have mentioned these things to me before. I understand that heritage, insofar as it relates to you as a European citizen, means something a little different in your heart.

That's cool with me:)

It would be nice for you simply to respect that Americans are going to feel a certain affiliation for the lands of their ancestors. It is a distant affiliation, mind you, for time has passed since our ancestors left those lands.....but the affiliation remains....and as it should. We, as Americans, also have the same right to take whatever comfort and interest we can in this fact. In fact, some Americans even go so far as to renounce their American citizenship and return back to Europe.

How I or another of my countrymen feels as Americans of various European descents shouldn't bother you if you simply accept that our way of understanding European heritage is going to be fundamentally different. We are, after all....Americans, first:) We do not have the depth to our own understanding of it in anywhere close to the level of which you do....seeing as you LIVE there every day of your life:)

Your posts on this topic have really enlightened my own understanding of the European perspective, and for this I am grateful.


And I am not speaking in the "Irish American way": Woooho I am Irish because I am getting drunk on Paddies day ! That sort of thing. LOL. I know.


Unfortunately most of your countrymen that come here are. Their lack of knowledge or even respect is astounding.We have some frighteningly dumb fucks in this country.....true:rolleyes:


nless you were raised with German as one of the languages that you were spoken too as a child German is not your native tongue. Never claimed it was. But the fact I have German ancestry kind of led to my choice of German as the language to learn;) How can that be a bad thing?


Suppose I would marry an American (lol) and my child would be raised in the Dutch and visiting the family in the Netherlands a couple of times a year and learning both Dutch and English as a native speaker. We celebrate Sinterklaas along with the Fourth of July and he knows the land his father came from (the stories attached to it, the national myths, Dutch history) as good as any Dutchman while knowing America was well.. then he could be considered Dutch - particularly if he holds two passports.Right. This is your jus sanguinis concept in practice.:)


But his grandchild or even his child (if his wife is American) is not Dutch. They only know the country through stories and never learned Dutch at home. Ethnicity here is a complicated thing - much more complicated then Americans think.I understand this as well. I gave the best explanation I could in the first part of this post. Hope it made a modicum of sense...lol

The Lawspeaker
02-21-2012, 09:19 AM
It would be nice for you simply to respect that Americans are going to feel a certain affiliation for the lands of their ancestors. It is a distant affiliation, mind you, for time has passed since our ancestors left those lands.....but the affiliation remains....and as it should. We, as Americans, also have the same right to take whatever comfort and interest we can in this fact. In fact, some Americans even go so far as to renounce their American citizenship and return back to Europe.

And most of them wouldn't get the passport... The thing is eventhough some of you may feel this romantic, distant affiliation. Do they even know (as in actually understanding it) what country their ancestors came from and in what state the country was when they left ? I don't think their understanding the country go beyond some romantic notions or in the best case beyond the very bare essence ?



How I or another of my countrymen feels as Americans of various European descents shouldn't bother you if you simply accept that our way of understanding European heritage is going to be fundamentally different. We are, after all....Americans, first:) Your posts on this topic have really enlightened my own understanding of the European perspective, and for this I am grateful.
Now what bothers me is that Americans tell us how we should run our affairs in our own home while calling themselves Europeans like us. Last time I checked America was on the other side of the Atlantic - 8 hours from Amsterdam (by plane), at least 6 days by boat. And we have been running (and in some cases ruining) our affairs for the last 3000 years by trial and error. For better or for worse and there was no America back then to take us by the hand and to lead us through life (:rolleyes:) (nor did we need it and nor do we do it need it now).

rhiannon
02-21-2012, 09:34 AM
And most of them wouldn't get the passport... The thing is eventhough some of you may feel this romantic, distant affiliation. Do they even know (as in actually understanding it) what country their ancestors came from and in what state the country was when they left ? I don't think their understanding the country go beyond some romantic notions or in the best case beyond the very bare essence ?
Probably not.
I've been told that I'd have a slight chance of success if ever were I to consider a move to the European continent....largely because I have an actual skill to offer. That's all, though. Most Americans I know that live over there (Sally comes to mind) are there because they're married to a European citizen....which is your jus sanguinis in action, again.
As for romantic notions....well, maybe some have them.

It is what it is. I don't think my own notions are especially romantic. They are a genuine interest, however.

Being just some joe blow American mish mosh person ain't that great. You'd have to be an American mutt to understand:p



Now what bothers me is that Americans tell us how we should run our affairs in our own home while calling themselves Europeans like us. Last time I checked America is on the other side of the Atlantic. And we have been running our affairs for the last 3000 years with trial and error. For better or for worse and there was no America back then to take us by the hand and to lead us through life (:rolleyes:) (nor did we need it and nor do we do it need it now).Yes. Your typical American Busybody. Yuk. I'm not very fond of people who do that, quite frankly:(

The Lawspeaker
02-21-2012, 09:40 AM
Probably not.
I've been told that I'd have a slight chance of success if ever were I to consider a move to the European continent....largely because I have an actual skill to offer. That's all, though. Most Americans I know that live over there (Sally comes to mind) are there because they're married to a European citizen....which is your jus sanguinis in action, again.
As for romantic notions....well, maybe some have them.
Exactly. And thus my only criticism when it comes to "racemixing" (that American obsession) is that if we would follow jus sanguinis to the letter we wouldn't need to bother about having immigrants marrying Dutch and "destroying the white race !!!1" because the immigrants wouldn't be here in the first place. It's a much more constructive solution then segregation and Apartheid.

I think that those few Americans that marry Europeans and those few Asians that then marry Europeans or.. hell Norwegians or Germans marrying Dutch are essentially the same thing: it comes from abroad and marries into the family. Big deal, who cares: as long as they don't bring along their whole bloody village and the one next to it and not just integrate but preferably assimilate.


It is what it is. I don't think my own notions are especially romantic. They are a genuine interest, however.
Do visit. :thumb001:


Being just some joe blow American mish mosh person ain't that great. You'd have to be an American mutt to understand:p
Americans should be maybe return to the 1940s, early 1950s in that respect and get some cultural self-respect. :thumb001:



Yes. Your typical American Busybody. Yuk. I'm not very fond of people who do that, quite frankly:(
Ugh.. they are the worst of the worst. And I don't care whether the guy is a liberal, KKK-man or a neoconservative: they can all take a hike.

demiirel
02-21-2012, 10:54 AM
Asiaphiles:

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HmlzIeQJ3K8

Hevneren
02-21-2012, 11:43 AM
Eh, your ethnic arguments interest me not. I don't care either way. I'm not mixed thank god as most Americans aren't and I don't care about some dumb ethnic obsession. I'd never marry or have kids with a southern Europe person but so long as they are from the north I have no issue whether they be English or Russian or Norwegian.

Without ethnicities we wouldn't have the phenotypical varieties and cultural diversity in Europe that we see today. You obsess over phenotypes that are based on millennia of seclusion in a tribal setting. Without this every person in Europe would look similar.

Culture, language and ethnicity matters in Europe, even if it apparently doesn't matters in the United States.

Hevneren
02-21-2012, 12:02 PM
I would say speaking of Europe as a single country is ignorant and insulting, and I'm not even European. So that's definitely not my view. And of course Europe is not one big happy family. But there is a common European community, which is not at all new and which has seen a great deal of convergence in the past century.

Hate to break it to you, but Europe has been largely insular and tribal for millennia. You might speak of wealthy merchants, kings, noblemen etc. being "internationalist" in outlook, but the vast majority of people in European nations were - as Civis Batavi pointed out - of the mindset that someone from another city or village was foreign to them, let alone someone from another nation.

While inter-European trade and cultural exchange isn't anything new (it happened with the ancient Greeks, the Romans, the Norse etc.), it doesn't change the fact that most ordinary people were born, lived and died in their home town or village, and never knew of any other cultures or peoples.


What you're raising here is an important point. Regionalism clearly exists in Europe. My point was that each country in Europe does not exist in a vacuum. Rather they exist in relation to several other states around them or in their region (such as Norway in Scandinavia and Western Europe). There also exists a European community which spans the entire continent, although generally with the exclusion of Turkey and some other countries/nations on the periphery.

It's not only a matter of religion. In fact, I would say religion is one of the least important factors. Language, culture, ethnicity and mindset factor in as well. Take away Islam, and a Turk will still have a different culture, a different language, a different mindset and a different ethnicity from a Norwegian or Dutchman.


A great example of this comes to mind, I spoke to a Danish exchange student recently who said that in their schools they have to learn at least one foreign language (German, English or Dutch I think she said) because it's important to be able to participate in that highly integrated region.

Yes, it's common in European countries to learn one or two foreign languages in school, but this is a modern phenomenon, and is the result of a post-WWII Europe in which European nations wanted closer cooperation and trade.

Hevneren
02-21-2012, 12:09 PM
Totally agree Rhiannon!

People like that try to dictate how other people identify. It's b.s. Many europeans have this strange attitude about Americans, it's probably just brainwashing from their "education" or something/ :D

I like Rhiannon and don't have anything bad to say about her, but your comment about brainwashing and education really has nothing to do with anything whatsoever. :rolleyes2:

If you don't like Americans being stereotyped or put in a bad light, maybe you should refrain from vomiting up nonsense yourself about our education?

The Lawspeaker
02-21-2012, 12:11 PM
If you don't like Americans being stereotyped or put in a bad light, maybe you should refrain from vomiting up nonsense yourself about our education?
At least we get one and we don't need to rely on FOX. :wink

Jon Snow
02-21-2012, 01:18 PM
It will probably not. You as an American are completely unable to understand Europe which is a lot more complicated then the U.S.

Pray enlighten me, then, O superior one; for I am but a lowly American, and what little intelligence I was born with has been muddled by thousands of McDonald's Value Meals consumed while watching hour after hour of Nascar.


So have no illusions: politics will become more centred around ethnicities and nationalities.

Yes, and in turn those nationalities and ethnicities will start to orient themselves more towards a racialist worldview.

You might deny it, but a typical Swede feels more in common with other Scandinavians than he does with an Englishman. In turn, he probably feels more in common with an Englishman than a Greek. Further, he feels more in common with a Greek than with an Oriental, a Sub-Saharan African, or a Muslim Arab.

Once all European nations are drowning in immigrants and forced integration--which will be the case in the not-so-distant future, unless the trend can be reversed--then those commonalities will be strengthened. Empathy is a powerful emotion, and when the aforementioned Swede sees Scandinavia, England, Greece, and the rest of Europe being overrun, he's not just going to want his country back--he's going to want his continent back.

Thunor
02-21-2012, 01:21 PM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-KbpPRf1k12k/TWB9JwdP0lI/AAAAAAAAOOU/u29b4Ocs_xk/s1600/race.jpg
I see you're doing your hardest to preserve your pure Dutch ethnicity. :D Anyways, as I'm just a mongrel colonial, I won't disturb you.

The Lawspeaker
02-21-2012, 01:25 PM
Pray enlighten me, then, O superior one; for I am but a lowly American, and what little intelligence I was born with has been muddled by thousands of McDonald's Value Meals consumed while watching hour after hour of Nascar.
You aren't from here. You wouldn't understand. For that you have to be born on this side of the Atlantic.





Yes, and in turn those nationalities and ethnicities will start to orient themselves more towards a racialist worldview.
Only in your American fantasies.


You might deny it, but a typical Swede feels more in common with other Scandinavians than he does with an Englishman. In turn, he probably feels more in common with an Englishman than a Greek. Further, he feels more in common with a Greek than with an Oriental, a Sub-Saharan African, or a Muslim Arab.
Which is based on historical ties and even that is a recent development (since European societies were inherently local and tribalised) - not on racist nonsense. But I guess that many people here would feel that they would even have more in common with Indo-Dutch before they would feel any connection with Americans. Why ? Because the latter have Dutch blood, have a partially Dutch culture and speak Dutch.


Once all European nations are drowning in immigrants and forced integration--which will be the case in the not-so-distant future, unless the trend can be reversed--then those commonalities will be strengthened. Empathy is a powerful emotion, and when the aforementioned Swede sees Scandinavia, England, Greece, and the rest of Europe being overrun, he's not just going to want his country back--he's going to want his continent back.
Which will not be the case. Stop dreaming and don't everything all the honkey that Wilders and his zionist gang and FOX News says. Things are not as not nearly as bad as you seem to think they are.

The Lawspeaker
02-21-2012, 02:15 PM
A couple of non-American examples of nationality laws:

The Netherlands (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_nationality_law#From_1_April_2003)
Norway (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_nationality_law)
Switzerland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_nationality_law)
France (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_nationality_law)
UK (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_nationality_law)
Germany (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_nationality_law)

Japan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_nationality_law)
The Philippines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine_nationality_law)



Jus soli around the world:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/71/Jus_soli_world.png

Defiance
02-21-2012, 02:29 PM
@ Civis Batavi
Hey. Perhaps you could be the first to give me a decent answer regarding a particular inquiry of mine.

Put simply, just why is it that so many so-called "European Preservationists" seem to be so averse to the concept of racialism? Personally, I indeed see very little difference between European pride and White pride. But I'm apparently missing something.

Then again, I'm just another damned American as well.....so perhaps you could enlighten me?

The Lawspeaker
02-21-2012, 02:33 PM
@ Civis Batavi


Put simply, just why is it that so many so-called "European Preservationists" seem to be so averse to the concept of racialism? Personally, I indeed see very little difference between European pride and White pride. But I'm apparently missing something.

I think I have been explaining that a thousand times over by now but let's try again. European countries have a more tribal tradition and nationality laws based on jus sanguinis (meaning that a child born to a parent belonging to that nationality (- and thus originally the ethnic group) receives citizenship whereas a child born to complete foreigners does not become a citizen) rather then jus soli.

It means that European countries are not racially based but ethnically based. It's just a completely different view on the matter. To make a long story very short: many Europeans wouldn't care what colour you are. If you are not belonging to the ethnic group (as in having one or two parents belonging to said ethnic group) you're still a damn bloody foreigner that should go back to whatever hell-hole you have spawned from.


Whereas for Americans racialists: every white guy is their comrade and every black, yellow, mixed guy their enemy eventhough their own country allows for anchor babies. That's the big difference.

Hevneren
02-21-2012, 02:43 PM
Put simply, just why is it that so many so-called "European Preservationists" seem to be so averse to the concept of racialism? Personally, I indeed see very little difference between European pride and White pride. But I'm apparently missing something.

Racialism aka White Nationalism is the fetishism of skin colour. It ignores culture, ethnicity, language and general mindset. Racialism/WN is the racist version of rainbow multiculturalism, because instead of "all humans are the same" a WN person will say "all white people are the same", which is of course nonsense.

The term "white" is only useful in discussions about skin colour and racialist topics, but not when talking about what makes the French French or the Germans German.

By the way, very few people have any kind of "European pride", in the truest sense, as taking pride in being "European" is almost as meaningless as taking pride in being white. Europe is a continent, not a culture or ethnicity. I have respect and even admiration for many European cultures, but I have no European identity, and therefore no European pride.

Defiance
02-21-2012, 02:45 PM
I think I have been explaining that a thousand times over by now but let's try again.
Yeah, sorry about that. But this is a pretty big thread.


European countries have a more tribal tradition and nationality laws based on jus sanguinis (meaning that a child born to a parent belonging to that nationality (- and thus originally the ethnic group) receives citizenship whereas a child born to complete foreigners does not become a citizen.

It means that European countries are not racially based but ethnically based. It's just a completely different view on the matter. To make a long story very short: many Europeans wouldn't care what colour you are. If you are not belonging to the ethnic group (as in having one or two parents belonging to said ethnic group) you're still a damn bloody foreigner that should go back to whatever hell-hole you have spawned from.


Whereas for Americans racialists: every white guy is their comrade and every black, yellow, mixed guy their enemy even-though their own country allows for anchor babies. That's the big difference.
.....Okay, right. Understood. But to finally get down to it, I suppose my real question is this: Would you feel more solidarity with a Dutch-born Negro, or with a White American of Dutch decent?

demiirel
02-21-2012, 02:46 PM
The ethnic basedness of Europe might be the result of thousands of years of isolation from other races. Europe was basically a closed unit. The tradition of ethnic basedness is so strong and ancient that the few immigrants who entered Europe in the past couple of decades have no real effect on this tradition.

America since it's birth has been a melting pot. Africans, Mongoloid Amerindians, Hispanics and Whites. That is why America grew to be the most radically racist.

The Lawspeaker
02-21-2012, 02:46 PM
Racialism aka White Nationalism is the fetishism of skin colour. It ignores culture, ethnicity, language and general mindset. Racialism/WN is the racist version of rainbow multiculturalism, because instead of "all humans are the same" a WN person will say "all white people are the same", which is of course nonsense.

And that's why the term White Nationalism or WN is a misnomer as it does not revolve around nationalism but around a kind of racist multiculturalism/ internationalism.

I think that the term White Internationalism or WI should used be a better description of that perfidious ideology that in my eyes WI is about as dangerous for ethnic groups as "regular" multiculturalism.

The Lawspeaker
02-21-2012, 02:49 PM
.....Okay, right. Understood. But to finally get down to it, I suppose my real question is this: Would you feel more solidarity with a Dutch-born Negro, or with a White American of Dutch decent?
Neither. Does the "negro" have a Dutch parent and is thus a mulatto ? Because being "born here" does not make you a Dutchman. That's America.

Defiance
02-21-2012, 02:54 PM
Neither. Does the "negro" have a Dutch parent and is thus a mulatto ? Because being "born here" does not make you a Dutchman. That's America.
.....I am just at a loss here.

I mean, really? You don't believe in race but you do believe in ethnicity?

The Lawspeaker
02-21-2012, 02:54 PM
.....I am just at a loss here.

I mean, really? You don't believe in race but you do believe in ethnicity?
Bingo. :thumb001:

Defiance
02-21-2012, 03:00 PM
@ Civis Batavi
(................)

Okay, I am going to try this just one more time. Do you feel more solidarity with a Dutch-born Negro (fully Negroid; no Dutch blood), or with a typical White American (regardless of ancestry)?

The Lawspeaker
02-21-2012, 03:01 PM
@ Civis Batavi
(................)

Okay, I am going to try this just one more time. Do you feel more solidarity with a Dutch-born Negro (fully Negroid; no Dutch blood), or with a typical White American (regardless of ancestry)?
Neither.

demiirel
02-21-2012, 03:03 PM
Whites are a very diverse group. It's not only Indo-Europeans. If we look at the number of 'white languages' with no genetic relationship to each other, the picture is quite surprising.

Sumerian, Afro-Asiatic, Indo-European, Etruscan (belonging to Tyrrhenian), Tartessian (Iberian), Basque, Georgian (Kartvelian), Circassian (Northwest Caucasian), Chechen (Northeast Caucasian), Uralic, Burushaski (in northern Pakistan), Hattic (in Asia Minor), Hurro-Urartian (southern Turkey), Eteocretan (in Minoan Crete) and many more which were lost in the sands of time.

Indo-European is only one among at least 14.

rhiannon
02-21-2012, 03:08 PM
@ Civis Batavi
(................)

Okay, I am going to try this just one more time. Do you feel more solidarity with a Dutch-born Negro (fully Negroid; no Dutch blood), or with a typical White American (regardless of ancestry)?

That Dutch born Negro is no more Dutch than the white American you mention.

Your conundrum is a direct result of your instinctive understanding of the American concept of jus soli. This means that you are considered an American citizen if you are born on American soil....

vs

The European concept of jus sanguinis means you must have direct ties to a person of European citizenship in order to live there....but must actually be the child of a European citizen to be considered one yourself.

Probably not a perfect explanation....but it should suffice:)

Defiance
02-21-2012, 03:14 PM
.....Okay, how about this; directed to no one in particular: Could a full-blooded Negro, under whatever circumstances, ever be considered Dutch in your eyes (or any other European ethnicity)?

rhiannon
02-21-2012, 03:19 PM
.....Okay, how about this; directed to no one in particular: Could a full-blooded Negro, under whatever circumstances, ever be considered Dutch in your eyes (or any other European ethnicity)?

No. Full-blooded means two black parents.....which means no Dutch parent.....which means they can never be considered Dutch.

If a person has one Dutch parent.....it doesn't matter what the other parent is....that person will have rights to Dutch citizenship.

Pretty sure Civis will agree:)

The Lawspeaker
02-21-2012, 03:22 PM
No. Full-blooded means two black parents.....which means no Dutch parent.....which means they can never be considered Dutch.

If a person has one Dutch parent.....it doesn't matter what the other parent is....that person will have rights to Dutch citizenship.

Pretty sure Civis will agree:)
Exactly. And my only problem is that my government has been giving out passports like bloody candies during the 1980s and 1990s so we have too many of those legally Dutch yet not ethnically Dutch idiots walking around the place. If they would have stuck to the law we wouldn't have had the problem we have today.

rhiannon
02-21-2012, 03:25 PM
Exactly. And my only problem is that my government has been giving out passports like bloody candies during the 1980s and 1990s so we have too many of those legally Dutch yet not ethnically Dutch idiots walking around the place. If they would have stuck to the law we wouldn't have had the problem we have today.

So, whilst it is the law in The Netherlands, it is one of which you disagree?

What I mean is.....do you agree with the notion of extending Dutch citizenship to a person with only one Dutch parent?

The Lawspeaker
02-21-2012, 03:27 PM
What I mean is.....do you agree with the notion of extending Dutch citizenship to a person with only one Dutch parent?
That person has Dutch blood thus he has the right to hold a passport and being citizen but I think that the law should be altered to allow a Dutch citizen with only one parent to make it more easy to adopt the passport of the foreign parent and renounce Dutch citizenship.

rhiannon
02-21-2012, 03:30 PM
That person has Dutch blood thus he has the right to hold a passport and being citizen.

Right....but I am a little confused as to what you meant by this post:

And my only problem is that my government has been giving out passports like bloody candies during the 1980s and 1990s so we have too many of those legally Dutch yet not ethnically Dutch idiots walking around the place
Who are these idiots of which you are referring to? This is my confusion.

The Lawspeaker
02-21-2012, 03:34 PM
Right....but I am a little confused as to what you meant by this post:

Who are these idiots of which you are referring to? This is my confusion.
About a couple of million immigrants. A lot of which received Dutch passports and usually were allowed to keep their other passports too. They were put on the fast track to becoming citizens "while maintaining their cultural identity" (as it was called).

Defiance
02-21-2012, 03:35 PM
I told myself that I was done speaking to you, but.....dammit.....


That person has Dutch blood thus he has the right to hold a passport and being citizen.
Dutch Americans also have Dutch blood, so just what about them? Furthermore, it would seem as if your words indeed would suggest racialism, as you mention Dutch blood, which is, of course, a racial thing (in case you didn't know, the Dutch tend to be White).

The Lawspeaker
02-21-2012, 03:36 PM
Dutch Americans also have Dutch blood, so just what about them? Furthermore, it would seem as if your words indeed would suggest racialism, as you mention Dutch blood, which is, of course, a racial thing (in case you didn't know, the Dutch tend to be White).
"Sighs"

Do these "Dutch Americans" have a Dutch parent (or two) that was/were born and raised here from native born Dutch parents ?

rhiannon
02-21-2012, 03:36 PM
About a couple of million immigrants. A lot of which received Dutch passports and usually were allowed to keep their other passports too. They were put on the fast track to becoming citizens "while maintaining their cultural identity" (as it was called).

Ah. So, no jus sanguinis applied to these guys....they just came in from elsewhere and got passports. Now I see.

I can understand your frustration, given the context of your posts on here, and how important that jus sanguinis concept really is in the ethnic identity of your people.

:)

rhiannon
02-21-2012, 03:38 PM
I told myself that I was done speaking to you, but.....dammit.....


Dutch Americans also have Dutch blood, so just what about them? Furthermore, it would seem as if your words indeed would suggest racialism, as you mention Dutch blood, which is, of course, a racial thing (in case you didn't know, the Dutch tend to be White).

No, they don't. It may take you a while for this to sink in....go back and reread the post I made to you explaining the difference.

You don't have to agree with it.....but you must respect that the European concept of ethnicity is VERY different from ours:)

The Lawspeaker
02-21-2012, 03:39 PM
Ah. So, no jus sanguinis applied to these guys....they just came in from elsewhere and got passports. Now I see.
They were allowed to "integrate" and the Dutch public was told for quite some time that almost every single last of them was a political refugee that if they would ever go home every last single of them would would get a bullet as soon as they got off the plane so calling for their repatriation would basically be akin to calling for them to be murdered by their former government. Then our government allowed these migrants to bring over their families and marry their cousins to bring them over as well yada yada.


I can understand your frustration, given the context of your posts on here, and how important that jus sanguinis concept really is in the ethnic identity of your people.

Now, and that's something many other Europeans would recognise, the government has brought us into a legal and ethnic quagmire: because how the hell are we going to get them out of the country ? A lot of them now have Dutch passports....

Leadchucker
02-21-2012, 03:46 PM
"Sighs"

Do these "Dutch Americans" have a Dutch parent (or two) that was/were born and raised here from native born Dutch parents ?

I agree with what you're saying. If both parents were born here in the US, then you are not a hyphenated shotgun ethnic name anything, you're American. Sure, it's good to remember your ancestry and all that but the habit of Americans tagging theirself as a Whatever-American is very annoying. I don't say I'm Welsh-American or English-American because I'm not. I have Welsh grandparents however the connection as a Welshman was broken with my parents being born as citizens here.

Hevneren
02-21-2012, 03:51 PM
Ah. So, no jus sanguinis applied to these guys....they just came in from elsewhere and got passports. Now I see.

I can understand your frustration, given the context of your posts on here, and how important that jus sanguinis concept really is in the ethnic identity of your people.

:)

It's the story all over Europe. We've now adopted an American form of nationalism, since Somalians, Arabs etc. who can barely speak Norwegian can say (without public protests) that they're Norwegian. :rolleyes:

We hear on the news about Norwegians committing violence and being imprisoned abroad, and then we see their names and faces....

In rare occasions, we might have other Europeans doing this too, which makes just as little sense.

Defiance
02-21-2012, 03:51 PM
I agree with what you're saying. If both parents were born here in the US, then you are not a hyphenated shotgun ethnic name anything, you're American.
Just one of the problems with this is that "American" is simply not an ethnicity to begin with.


the European concept of ethnicity is VERY different from ours:)
Well I guess so, goddamn.....

The Lawspeaker
02-21-2012, 03:59 PM
Suppose that the Tweede Kamer (Lower House) would pass a de-naturalisation law today and the Senate would support it and the Queen would actually sign it then I guess that before the last immigrant has lost his passport and has been deported we would be 15 years down the line because we would need to confer with every single possible government (where the immigrants came from) - including the EU.. and that doesn't even include the chances that we would be dragged before the ECtHR so migrant groups and their native collaborators can stall it).

It would probably take even more then 15 years to redo the damage. Suppose I would someone daft enough to go ahead with it, get married next year and get to bed quickly and my then-wife and I make a little girl: my oldest daughter would then have started going to college by the time the damage has been restored ( a bit).

Because the immigration services and the police (and diplomats) would have to treat every single case individually with a huge chance that a new government would stop the program and invite in more immigrants.

Leadchucker
02-21-2012, 04:12 PM
Just one of the problems with this is that "American" is simply not an ethnicity to begin with.


In the strictest defintion of the word, yes . On a wider or commonly linguistically corrupted sense...maybe. rhiannon's comment is valid also as the defintion does indeed vary according to your locale.

Examples:

wiktionary : The common characteristics of a group of people.

wikipedia : ..... a group of people whose members identify with each other, through a common heritage, often consisting of a common language, a common culture.....

dictionary.com: ...characteristic of a human group having racial, religious, linguistic, or certain other traits in common

I am not disagreeing with you but rather offering that maybe it could be seen as an ethnic group, however not in a tradtional way with a lesser emphasis on race or traits.

Supreme American
02-21-2012, 11:11 PM
I'm fairly new here. Not sure what the collective vibe is on this forum yet....still working my way around.

Here is a good question to give me an idea:

What are everyone's opinions about interracial relationships?

Are they morally wrong? Morally acceptable? Please give an answer and the reason for that answer.

I know this is a European Preservation forum...but preservation might mean different things to different people.

Please be respectful. I am just curious as to what everyone thinks. Thank you!


Morally repugnant, disrespectful of one's race, culture, and ancestors, and furthermore, statistically more likely to fail. All non-white racial groups also have elevated rates of social disease.

Mixed-race children are more likely to suffer identity issues, fitting in with neither race, and are thus more likely to fall into alcohol and drug abuse.

Oh yeah, and mixed-race people often aren't able to get necessary transplants, thus being mixed can actually doom you death.

The above and more are always ignored in the mainstream media-driven discussion about race. As usual, to promote an agenda, the truth of the matter must be hidden, lest the product being peddled lose its appeal.

Supreme American
02-21-2012, 11:14 PM
Just one of the problems with this is that "American" is simply not an ethnicity to begin with.

Sure it is. It can also be considered a new tribe within an ethnicity. As an example, ethnic Germans who migrated to the Balkans came from several tribes within Germany and some Austria, and thus when melded together, created new German tribes. This isn't remotely new.

The Lawspeaker
02-21-2012, 11:36 PM
Sure it is. It can also be considered a new tribe within an ethnicity. As an example, ethnic Germans who migrated to the Balkans came from several tribes within Germany and some Austria, and thus when melded together, created new German tribes. This isn't remotely new.
And that's why, as Leadchucker pointed out, so many Americans tend to tag themselves as a "insert European ethnicity- American" eventhough they are fourth or fifth generation American and would never be able to obtain a "insert European nationality" passport ?

The only real Dutch-Americans are those whose mother or father is Dutch. The rest is not. They may call themselves Americans.

CelticViking
02-21-2012, 11:54 PM
Thunor




Originally Posted by Civis Batavi
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-KbpPRf1k12k/TWB9JwdP0lI/AAAAAAAAOOU/u29b4Ocs_xk/s1600/race.jpg


I see you're doing your hardest to preserve your pure Dutch ethnicity. :D Anyways, as I'm just a mongrel colonial, I won't disturb you.

Who is that?

Supreme American
02-22-2012, 12:06 AM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-KbpPRf1k12k/TWB9JwdP0lI/AAAAAAAAOOU/u29b4Ocs_xk/s1600/race.jpg

I see you're doing your hardest to preserve your pure Dutch ethnicity. :D Anyways, as I'm just a mongrel colonial, I won't disturb you.

An ugly fat white dude with an Oriental. Couldn't see that one coming. Here's another couple you'd never expect to see:

http://i40.tinypic.com/mi031y.jpg

Racial stereotypes are really being shattered on this thread. I'm learning so much!

The Lawspeaker
02-22-2012, 12:10 AM
And that's why the term White Nationalism or WN is a misnomer as it does not revolve around nationalism but around a kind of racist multiculturalism/ internationalism.

I think that the term White Internationalism or WI should used be a better description of that perfidious ideology that in my eyes WI is about as dangerous for ethnic groups as "regular" multiculturalism.
I just thought I should repeat it. :cool: At the end of the day White Internationalism is nothing more then racist multiculturalism.

And this post explains the difference between ethnic thinking in Europe and American jus soli a bit better:


That Dutch born Negro is no more Dutch than the white American you mention.

Your conundrum is a direct result of your instinctive understanding of the American concept of jus soli. This means that you are considered an American citizen if you are born on American soil....

vs

The European concept of jus sanguinis means you must have direct ties to a person of European citizenship in order to live there....but must actually be the child of a European citizen to be considered one yourself.

Probably not a perfect explanation....but it should suffice:)

This post by rhiannon also briefly lines out how jus sanguinis works:


No. Full-blooded means two black parents.....which means no Dutch parent.....which means they can never be considered Dutch.

If a person has one Dutch parent.....it doesn't matter what the other parent is....that person will have rights to Dutch citizenship.

Pretty sure Civis will agree:)
Which I did btw because that's also what the law says.

CelticViking
02-22-2012, 12:28 AM
An ugly fat white dude with an Oriental. Couldn't see that one coming. Here's another couple you'd never expect to see:

http://i40.tinypic.com/mi031y.jpg

Racial stereotypes are really being shattered on this thread. I'm learning so much!


Self-conscious people wanting to feel better about themselves by dating people below them.



http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/06/05/article-0-017ECB9600000578-61_468x286.jpg

Wedding day: Liz Jones marrying Nirpal Dhaliwal

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?p=726892#post726892


Liz Jones has struggled to accept her shape ... As an anorexic
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1387364/Anorexia-nervosa-My-shoulders-bony-I-look-ill-Id-dead-fat.html

Supreme American
02-22-2012, 12:44 AM
Self-conscious people wanting to feel better about themselves by dating people below them.

No, ugly fat fucks who can't get it anywhere else, so they have to slide down the racial ladder.



http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?p=726892#post726892


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1387364/Anorexia-nervosa-My-shoulders-bony-I-look-ill-Id-dead-fat.html

Then you have ones that aren't fat slobs but having something else wrong upstairs. Or maybe they're just strung out.

Scrapple
02-22-2012, 02:39 AM
woof, woof! :p

Similar is the best I could hope for. LOL

Right. There is no *American* ethnicity.

Nice reply so you are Civis's dog. Nice that he pats you on the head later.

:p

The Lawspeaker
02-22-2012, 02:44 AM
Nice reply so you are Civis's dog. Nice that he pats you on the head later.

:p
:wink

rhiannon
02-22-2012, 03:19 AM
Nice reply so you are Civis's dog. Nice that he pats you on the head later.

:p

I am nobody's pet. I was just being silly is all:rolleyes:

Civis's posts have given me a much greater understanding of the fundamental differences between the American and European mindset.

Supreme American
02-22-2012, 03:26 AM
Civis's posts have given me a much greater understanding of the fundamental differences between the American and European mindset.

The question is it honest moral outrage or rather jealousy that the once big boys are now basically bottom-feeders?

The Lawspeaker
02-22-2012, 03:32 AM
The question is it honest moral outrage or rather jealousy that the once big boys are now basically bottom-feeders?
Differences in mindset and the fact that we have set ethnicities. It's a different world, so to speak.

rhiannon
02-22-2012, 05:30 AM
If every 20 year old European thought like 'Celtic Viking', our prospects would be a damn sight better. For every intellectual who can spiel out his opinions with polish and sophistication on a web forum, hundreds of ordinary men and women are needed to simply FEEL the same motivations instinctively, and instinctively preserve our people. Some of us can't imagine the harassment that a young white woman grows up with, thanks to the import of the Third World to all our countries. That some respond to this with raw and unashamed forthrightness is quite natural and good.

Osweo, I may be a lot older than she is, but do not think for an instant that hers in the only generation of females to deal with racial harassment.....or harassment in general.

Been there, done that....and I don't even have a T Shirt for it. I won't even begin to address the experiences of the generations of women before me....

Joe McCarthy
02-22-2012, 05:40 AM
The question is it honest moral outrage or rather jealousy that the once big boys are now basically bottom-feeders?

The Dutch haven't been big boys since William of Orange ascended the English throne. He'd probably be butthurt if this were even 300 years ago.

I don't usually indulge in personal BS but I have to disagree with any notion that Civis represents a European mindset. Most European criticism of the US at least has the mark of sanity, even if it's usually the product of envy and other degenerate values.

heathen_son
02-22-2012, 06:56 AM
http://media1.break.com/dnet/media/2008/12/70%20Hot%20Curvy%20Girl.jpg

CelticViking
02-22-2012, 09:39 AM
At the end of the day White Internationalism is nothing more then racist multiculturalism.


Just because you don't like interracial relationships, It doesn't make you a White Nationalist, KKK, Neo Nazi, skin head or Nationalist socialist and it doesn't make you a racist. Now that is a trick that Indians use all the time here.

"Do you want to go out with me?" asked Indian men
"No way"
"Why not?" asked Indian men.
"I don't find you attractive"
"Why not? isn't it what is in the inside that matters" said Indian men
"We also have a different religion and culture"
"But I've learnt to speak your language and I wave your flag around" said Indian men.
"You are still not a New Zealand European"
"You are racist" yelled Indian men
"I don't want my children to get medical problems and I don't find you attractive"
"You are a racist bitch, come here and please suck my c**k and you won't be racist anymore" said Indian men.
"Ew, no go away, leave me alone"
" Have children with me" Asked Indian man.
"They won't look like me and they would have your blood line"
"You are racist but I think you are hot" said Indian men.
"I don't think you are hot"
"You are racist but you can be my girlfriend" said Indian men.
"I don't want you"
"You are racist"yelled Indian men.
"Go back to India and marry an Indian lady"
"This is my home, I don't want an Indian, I want you" said Indian men.
"I don't want you"
"why not?"asked Indian men.
"I've already told you"
"You're racist" said Indian men.
"Racism is a word created by Communist Leon Trotsky, I don't want to have sex with you or date you, please leave me alone"
"Can I buy you a drink" asked Indian men.
"NO!!!"

That is what they do: They try and make people feel guilty. They do this in public and on dating sites and they don't care how old the female is.
Men can easily walk away if they aren't thinking with this pe*n*s but for a woman, it is a lot harder when they look angry at you and are yelling and trying to make you feel sorry for them. They also try sleep with drunk woman and try to confuse woman. Even Taxi drivers were on the news and some Indian admitted that he slept with a drunk woman.

There are lots of famous men and woman that didn't like interracial relationships such as Isabella I of Castile, Queen Elizabeth 1, Charles Darwin, Thomas Jefferson,Calvin Coolidge, H.G. Wells, Winiston Churchill, Edward VII, Charles Linbergh, Coco Chanel and that was before WN of today.

EkhcKkXXmug

Not just European/White people but there has also been eugenics in China, Singapore, Japan and Korea.

No matter what Mr Harry Potter tells you, wanting to preserve your heritage doesn't mean you hate other races. Race mixing destroys diversity and creates health problems.

rhiannon
02-22-2012, 10:49 AM
Just because you don't like interracial relationships, It doesn't make you a White Nationalist, KKK, Neo Nazi, skin head or Nationalist socialist and it doesn't make you a racist. Now that is a trick that Indians use all the time here.

"Do you want to go out with me?" asked Indian men
"No way"
"Why not?" asked Indian men.
"I don't find you attractive"
"Why not? isn't it what is in the inside that matters" said Indian men
"We also have a different religion and culture"
"But I've learnt to speak your language and I wave your flag around" said Indian men.
"You are still not a New Zealand European"
"You are racist" yelled Indian men
"I don't want my children to get medical problems and I don't find you attractive"
"You are a racist bitch, come here and please suck my c**k and you won't be racist anymore" said Indian men.
"Ew, no go away, leave me alone"
" Have children with me" Asked Indian man.
"They won't look like me and they would have your blood line"
"You are racist but I think you are hot" said Indian men.
"I don't think you are hot"
"You are racist but you can be my girlfriend" said Indian men.
"I don't want you"
"You are racist"yelled Indian men.
"Go back to India and marry an Indian lady"
"This is my home, I don't want an Indian, I want you" said Indian men.
"I don't want you"
"why not?"asked Indian men.
"I've already told you"
"You're racist" said Indian men.
"Racism is a word created by Communist Leon Trotsky, I don't want to have sex with you or date you, please leave me alone"
"Can I buy you a drink" asked Indian men.
"NO!!!"

That is what they do: They try and make people feel guilty. They do this in public and on dating sites and they don't care how old the female is.
Men can easily walk away if they aren't thinking with this pe*n*s but for a woman, it is a lot harder when they look angry at you and are yelling and trying to make you feel sorry for them. They also try sleep with drunk woman and try to confuse woman. Even Taxi drivers were on the news and some Indian admitted that he slept with a drunk woman.

There are lots of famous men and woman that didn't like interracial relationships such as Isabella I of Castile, Queen Elizabeth 1, Charles Darwin, Thomas Jefferson,Calvin Coolidge, H.G. Wells, Winiston Churchill, Edward VII, Charles Linbergh, Coco Chanel and that was before WN of today.

EkhcKkXXmug

Not just European/White people but there has also been eugenics in China, Singapore, Japan and Korea.

No matter what Mr Harry Potter tells you, wanting to preserve your heritage doesn't mean you hate other races. Race mixing destroys diversity and creates health problems.

Celtic Viking....all you gotta do is tell the douchebag he ain't your type, and walk away. I've always had black dudes picking up on me...as well as Mexicans....they have all tried and failed.

Who gives a shit if they call you racist? I sure wouldn't. Everyone has a *type* they are attracted to....in fact, maybe your best bet is just to say you like blonds or redheads;)

Frankly, I don't see a lot of Indian men with white women....at least not here. They tend to stick to their own women....and Indian women can be quite beautiful in their own right:)

The hard part you have to deal with is that you are at PRIME age for these sorts of come-ons. Dudes are always chasing the young chicks, lol. I used to have to beat em' down with a stick too, at your age. Seems everyone was always horny down in So Cali....LMAO!

There is NOTHING wrong with wishing to preserve your bloodline. That is your right. I managed to preserve mine:) My brothers....not so much....but I will say the ladies they wound up with are decent, kind, and have generally been a positive influence for them. They've been happy with the choices they made....so it is not my place to fault them for it.

CelticViking
02-22-2012, 11:35 AM
Celtic Viking....all you gotta do is tell the douchebag he ain't your type, and walk away. I've always had black dudes picking up on me...as well as Mexicans....they have all tried and failed.

Who gives a shit if they call you racist? I sure wouldn't. Everyone has a *type* they are attracted to....in fact, maybe your best bet is just to say you like blonds or redheads;)

The Dravadians don't leave you alone, they will stare and follow you and be annoying. They own shops and taxi cars. It is not so easy to walk away from them when they have been so aggresive as all mixed race people can be. Ofcourse the answer will always be no. It isn't about hair colour or eye colour or skin tone, it is about preserving bloodline. A woman here can't even join a dating site with out them messaging and sometimes rude messages 1000s of times a day. When you delete and block them more messages come along.

I don't care if they call me racist but that is what it is like here.
Getting called a Racist is as bad as been called Rapist or Murderer to some people. Many people are scared of being racist and don't have any pride in their race. Not many people know what Vikings or Celtic people were.
If you like Lord of the rings, you are seen as geeky but if you like hiphop you are seen as cool. African horns are cool but kilts are not treated as cool. Political correctness was created in a Frankfurt school and it is also very bad here. Many people here are still keeping our culture and traditions but White Guilt seems to get in the way of things a lot.




The main reasoning of Guilt Grade A is
you are guilty of what your European people have done
you must therefore pay for that
you cannot object any punishment for what has been done
any objection to your punishment is offensive for the "victims"
if you object you are a hatemonger and istigate racism and violence

This way of thinking is far away from being logical, but Jewish and marxist controlled media were able to make it common and widely accepted as logical. Hence, always without any logical explanation, it becomes a reasoning against anti-immigration, pride and care for white culture and inheritage:
you do not want immigrants/you are proud/you love your culture
you think they are different/others are not proud/other cultures are different
thinking they are different = thinking they are inferior
you are racist and biased
you are dangerous
you will discriminate them
you will try to take over our countries
you will try to end democracy
you will try to mass murder anyone who is different to you
you are a mass murderer because you will do that
your thought should not be allowed in order of safety
your race'd better be extinct

Due to harsh media propaganda this reasoning has become commonly accepted, and the fact that by racism it is intended both violence towards those who are different and the thought that we are not the same has led to the use in politics of the false pretense to fight racial violence to censor any different opinion.

http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/White_Guilt



Frankly, I don't see a lot of Indian men with white women....at least not here. They tend to stick to their own women....and Indian women can be quite beautiful in their own right:)

The hard part you have to deal with is that you are at PRIME age for these sorts of come-ons. Dudes are always chasing the young chicks, lol. I used to have to beat em' down with a stick too, at your age. Seems everyone was always horny down in So Cali....LMAO!

There is NOTHING wrong with wishing to preserve your bloodline. That is your right. I managed to preserve mine:) My brothers....not so much....but I will say the ladies they wound up with are decent, kind, and have generally been a positive influence for them. They've been happy with the choices they made....so it is not my place to fault them for it.

We have all types of Asians(Chinese,Korean,Japanese,Vietnamese,Indian, Paki, American Indian, Polynesian etc), Africans/Dravadians/Abo) and Semitic people (Jews and Arab) here. Just imagine you want romance and friendship with other Europeans but all these people are annoying you everywhere you go. That is how it is like here but for many men and woman they don't care but I do.

Civis Batavi seems to want all people of the new world to race mix.
He doesn't think that we are worthy enough and he doesn't call us European.
He doesn't use the terms White. The term Aryan means noble which can be for many races and Caucasian can be for many races. He is saying we have no culture or tradition , he wants us to be Self-conscious about ourselves so we should just race mix into one race. If you don't like interracial it seems he will call you racist or White Nationalist. He has done nothing but attack Americans in this thread and you have even called yourself a mutt.
Most White Americans, White Canadians, White Australians and New Zealand Europeans are Celtic and Germanic just like Greenland, Iceland, France, Germany,Austria, Netherlands, England, Cornwall, Wales,Ireland and Scotland. European preservation isn't about location, it is about blood.
We could go to Mars and still have preserve the bloodline, culture, tradition and everything else of the European race.

The Lawspeaker
02-22-2012, 11:39 AM
I don't usually indulge in personal BS but I have to disagree with any notion that Civis represents a European mindset. Most European criticism of the US at least has the mark of sanity, even if it's usually the product of envy and other degenerate values.
It shows all the more that you know nothing about Europe but then again you don't know anything about your own country either, I guess. You have been rebuked time and time again when you bring up something stupid.

Supreme American
02-22-2012, 11:41 AM
http://media1.break.com/dnet/media/2008/12/70%20Hot%20Curvy%20Girl.jpg

Selling or buying? :laugh:

Supreme American
02-22-2012, 11:43 AM
There is NOTHING wrong with wishing to preserve your bloodline. That is your right. I managed to preserve mine:) My brothers....not so much....but I will say the ladies they wound up with are decent, kind, and have generally been a positive influence for them. They've been happy with the choices they made....so it is not my place to fault them for it.

Brothers, plural? Jesus Christ, how about some parenting? :mad:

The Lawspeaker
02-22-2012, 11:44 AM
Civis Batavi seems to want all people of the new world to race mix.
He doesn't think that we are worthy enough and he doesn't call us European.
He doesn't use the terms White. The term Aryan means noble which can be for many races and Caucasian can be for many races. He is saying we have no culture or tradition , he wants us to be Self-conscious about ourselves so we should just race mix into one race. If you don't like interracial it seems he will call you racist or White Nationalist. He has done nothing but attack Americans in this thread and you have even called yourself a mutt.

Because I think in ethnicity and because you are as much a damn fucking foreigner to me as some Arab and both can piss off in equal measure. I don't use the term white because I don't care: it's either Dutch or completely foreign to me. Do you get it now ?

My definition is not racist - it revolves around ethnicity so you better stop lying "younglady" and read for once. And Dutch is only that person who has one or two Dutch parents and the rest is foreign to me, alien to me.

So you're racemixing bullshit is just colonial tosh.. born from a country without a culture and ethnicity and where people are obviously more fucking scared about the colour of their skin then about things that build an actual nation. Another Flevoland: New Zealand.

Supreme American
02-22-2012, 11:48 AM
^^^What about Orientals who act white in the Netherlands?

The Lawspeaker
02-22-2012, 11:50 AM
^^^What about Orientals who act white in the Netherlands?
FOREIGN

NO DUTCH PARENTS - FOREIGNER.

Just how many times do I have to explain this over and over again: READ !

CelticViking
02-22-2012, 11:50 AM
Because I think in ethnicity and because you are as much a damn fucking foreigner to me as some Arab and both can piss off in equal measure. I don't use the term white because I don't care: it's either Dutch or completely foreign to me. Do you get it now ?

My definition is not racist - it revolves around ethnicity so you better stop lying "younglady" and read for once. And Dutch is only that person who has one or two Dutch parents and the rest is foreign to me, alien to me.

So you're racemixing bullshit is just colonial tosh.. born from a country without a culture and ethnicity. Another Flevoland: New Zealand.

I never said you were racist but you have use the term racist.
This here seems like you want people in the New World to race mix and have health problems.

Originally Posted by Civis Batavi
Actually.. I wouldn't mind it at all if the two cultures would slow fuse together

The Lawspeaker
02-22-2012, 11:51 AM
I never said you were racist but you have use the term racist.
This here seems like you want people in the New World to race mix and have health problems.
I have said that I want people in the New World to move the fuck on. They are not Europeans and they might just as well stop bothering about trying to be European because they are not: they are neither in culture or in soul so why the desperate trying ?

Move on !

Defiance
02-22-2012, 11:57 AM
I have said that I want people in the New World to move the fuck on. They are not Europeans and they might just as well stop bothering about trying to be European because they are not: they are neither in culture or in soul so why the desperate trying ?

Move on !
Okay, how do I "neg-rep" someone? Seriously, who are you to make such assertions?

And I must say that I'm absolutely amazed that Firefox recognizes the word "neg-rep."

Supreme American
02-22-2012, 11:58 AM
Those who claim men who're attracted to Asian women are pedophiles, are making some very serious claims without any foundation. Such claims seem in large based on insecurity.

Personally, I can find women with a variety of hair, eye and skin colours attractive. It's very much individual. I think I'm a typical male in the sense that if I find a woman sexually attractive, it doesn't matter what shade her skin is or what shape or colour her eyes are. That being said, I've only ever had crushes on girls of European extraction, and I've only ever had girlfriends of European extraction.

There is a real market out there for white men who have sexual fetishes that Oriental females satisfy. I don't think it's a matter of personal insecurity to take note of it. IMO a lot of stereotyping goes behind it as well as seeing online on race mixing forums the tendency of white men with Oriental fetishes to refer repeatedly to them as "girls" or "little girls" instead of women.

As far as the rest goes, at least in my personal experience, the only time I noticed any attraction toward a non-white was when I was a racial liberal and didn't mind the idea of racemixing. Racial awakening and reverence for one's own race has flushed that out of me.

Of course there is also the basic point that people with brown skin almost always have lower IQs than we do. It's not an accident that nearly all of them have lived in bamboo shacks or similar for endless milennia without advancement.

rhiannon
02-22-2012, 11:58 AM
Brothers, plural? Jesus Christ, how about some parenting? :mad:

Go have yourself a white child and then get back to me:) Thanks.:coffee:

Lagergeld, you really need to knock your shit off with me. Seriously...:rolleyes:

CelticViking
02-22-2012, 11:58 AM
So you're racemixing bullshit is just colonial tosh.. born from a country without a culture and ethnicity and where people are obviously more fucking scared about the colour of their skin then about things that build an actual nation. Another Flevoland: New Zealand.

Race is more than skin colour.



Synechdoche of skin colour

The assertion is sometimes made that those who believe in "racism" are merely desiring to discriminate between people on the basis of skin colour. Those making this claim realise that there is more difference than merely skin colour, but use this argument both to trivialise the differences between races and also as a proxy for claiming that differences between races are only cosmetic.


http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Anti-Racism

New Zealand does have culture and most of it is British (sport,food,music etc) We still have the union jack, we still have the Queen, we still sing songs about the Queen. Australia is much the same.

Supreme American
02-22-2012, 12:00 PM
I have said that I want people in the New World to move the fuck on. They are not Europeans and they might just as well stop bothering about trying to be European because they are not: they are neither in culture or in soul so why the desperate trying ?

Move on !

Frankly, considering you have a past of banging a panface and continue to defend doing so, I don't think you're in any position to say who should or should not identify with the mother continent.

The Lawspeaker
02-22-2012, 12:01 PM
Race is more than skin colour.
No it isn't. Being a New Zealand white does not make you a Dutchman. A Swede is not an Italian. An Italian is not an Irishman. There are cultures and ethnicities which have grown organically over the past 3000 odd years.





New Zealand does have culture and most of it is British (sport,food,music etc) We still have the union jack, we still have the Queen, we still sing songs about the Queen. Australia is much the same.
You can't even come up with your own stuff down there ? You guys have been around for over 100 years.

LOL even we say here that Flevoland (only a province since 1986) is also a little bit different from the rest.

The Lawspeaker
02-22-2012, 12:03 PM
Frankly, considering you have a past of banging a panface and continue to defend doing so, I don't think you're in any position to say who should or should not identify with the mother continent.
No I do being a citizen from a European country. You use a Japanese word let me tell you what you are:

A damn fucking gaikokujin or gaijin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaijin). A foreigner, an alien. Just as much as any Korean, Japanese or Arab or African or even an Italian, an Englishman or a Pole. A foreigner. Not from here.

CelticViking
02-22-2012, 12:05 PM
No it isn't. Being a New Zealand white does not make you a Dutchman. A Swede is not an Italian. An Italian is not an Irishman. There are cultures and ethnicities which have grown organically over the past 3000 odd years. You can't even come up with your own stuff down there ? You guys have been around for over 100 years.
LOL even we say here that Flevoland (only a province since 1986) is also a little bit different from the rest.

We do have different things such as Anzac day but It doesn't mean we can't keep our traditions.

The Lawspeaker
02-22-2012, 12:07 PM
We do have different things such as Anzac day but It doesn't mean we can't keep our traditions.
You mean traditions that are British and not from New Zealand. Too chickenshit to move on: why are you people not "back home" in Britain if you want to be British ?

There are people with Dutch, German, Scandinavian blood there as well as well as the Maori.

пустиняк
02-22-2012, 12:07 PM
For me is about taste. I just don't like females from other races even race mixed aren't very good of course they are some exceptions. I doubt that I will ever have relationship with girl from other race. Just don't find them beautiful and also here they aren't many non-Europeans except romas.I want to marry and to have kids with European girl esp. from my ethnicity or from the region. Of course I'm too young for kids and marriage.

CelticViking
02-22-2012, 12:13 PM
You mean traditions that are British and not from New Zealand. Too chickenshit to move on: why are you people not "back home" in Britain if you want to be British ?
There are people with Dutch, German, Scandinavian blood there as well as well as the Maori.

Dutch and German are Celtic + Germanic just like the British.
Scandinavian are Germanic and the Iceland people are Celtic + Germanic.
New Zealand Europeans helped the Australians and British against their Celtic and Germanic brothers in World war 1 and World war 2.

Maori are Melenesian(African) + Asian + European.
They signed the treaty and we have given them protection from other races until Norman Kirk. If we never came the other Asians would have came or they would have died out because of the lack of food. We have now given them cars and computers and phones, they can get food just by ringing a number, it is as easy as that for them now.

The Lawspeaker
02-22-2012, 12:21 PM
Dutch and German are Celtic + Germanic just like the British.
Scandinavian are Germanic and the Iceland people are Celtic + Germanic.
New Zealand Europeans helped the Australians and British against their Celtic and Germanic brothers in World war 1 and World war 2.
You know what: we don't care about that Germanic, Celtic thing here in Europe. Maybe only some Irish, Welsh and Bretons are obsessed about it. The rest refers to itself by ethnicity.



Maori are Melenesian(African) + Asian + European.
They signed the treaty and we have given them protection from other races until Norman Kirk. If we never came the other Asians would have came or they would have died out because of the lack of food. We have now given them cars and computers and phones, they can get food just by ringing a number, it is as easy as that for them now.
What Asians ? The Chinese and Japanese had been chaining their ships to the docks since at least the 1600s. And the Japanese would only open up until after Sakoku (if you left Japanese as a Japanese before that you had your head cut off !) ended which is decades AFTER Waitangi.

CelticViking
02-22-2012, 12:27 PM
What Asians ? The Chinese and Japanese had been chaining at the docks since at least the 1600s. And the Japanese would do so until after Sakoku ended which is decades AFTER Waitangi.

The Maori are from Taiwan so It shouldn't have been that hard for other Asians to come and say hello. Even now Maori, Malaysians and Indians get in fights. Multiculturalism has failed not just New Zealand Europeans but also Maori. But the Maori call us racist if we don't like their Asian or African cousins.


Loki said he is from South Africa, Apricity is for European preservation. There are areas for New Zealand, Australia, USA, Canada and South Africa. So no I won't leave even if you don't call me European. Just because you don't think we are European or what ever term, doesn't mean we should race mix and make the country full of even more health problems.

The Lawspeaker
02-22-2012, 12:32 PM
The Maori are from Taiwan so It shouldn't have been that hard for other Asians to come and say hello. Even now Maori, Malaysians and Indians get in fights. Multiculturalism has failed not just New Zealand Europeans but also Maori. But the Maori call us racist if we don't like their Asian or African cousins.
Things had changed a bit in China and Taiwan since the ancestors of the Maori came to New Zealand and I really think you need to up Chinese and Taiwanese history before you make any assumptions. The Chinese (Taiwan was Chinese in those days) had been chaining their ships to the docks for a long time.


Just because you don't think we are European or what ever term, doesn't mean we should race mix and make the country full of even more health problems.
I wonder.. how many people of "mixed race" do you know that have health problems because I frankly know few people of mixed race and none of them have any health problems ? Maybe it's only in certain combinations that also take place amongst fellow Dutch or fellow Germans.

Such people have genetic health problems within their families and that has nothing to do with race but just with that: genetic problems within the family line. Ask Spakenburg (one of the ethnically purest places in the Netherlands) about that. Spakenburg is a hotspot for Benigne recidiverende intrahepatische cholestase (http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benigne_recidiverende_intrahepatische_cholestase) or Spakenburgse ziekte as it is also known here because the people are fairly inbred (let's be honest about it) and it's so ethnically pure that almost everyone is either a "De Graaf" or a "Koelewijn" because those are the most frequent last names there.

And that doesn't mean that I advocate racemixing but there are two extremes.

CelticViking
02-22-2012, 12:52 PM
Things had changed a bit in China back then and I really think you need to up Chinese history before you make any assumptions. The Chinese (Taiwan was Chinese in those days) had been chaining their ships to the docks for a long time.

Hawaiki was Taiwan and Maori got to New Zealand 1000 years ago in their Waka and started killing the trees after 200 years of being in New Zealand and hunted the Moa.


I wonder.. how many people of "mixed race" do you know that have health problems because I frankly know few people of mixed race and none of them have any health problems ? Maybe it's only in certain combinations that also take place amongst fellow Dutch or fellow Germans.
Such people have genetic health problems within their families and that has nothing to do with race but just with that: genetic problems within the family line. Ask Spakenburg (one of the ethnically purest places in the Netherlands) about that. Spakenburg is a hotspot for Benigne recidiverende intrahepatische cholestase (http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benigne_recidiverende_intrahepatische_cholestase) or Spakenburg disease as it is also known here because the people are fairly inbred (let's be honest about it) and it's so ethnically pure that almost everyone is either a "De Graaf" or a "Koelewijn" because those are the most frequent last names there. And that doesn't mean that I advocate racemixing but there are two extremes.

Maori are on the news and Police Ten 7 all the time for violence, gangs and depression etc. I've already posted the health problems.

http://www.majorityrights.com/weblog/comments/the_health_consequences_of_race_mixing/


Students of mixed races report suffering more health problems

CHAPEL HILL -- A new study that involved surveying 90,000 adolescent U.S. students showed that those who considered themselves to be of mixed race were more likely than others to suffer from depression, substance abuse, sleep problems and various aches and pains. Conducted by researchers at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and the National Institutes of Health, the investigation found that adolescents of mixed race were more likely to have other health problems as well.

"It did not matter what races the students identified with, the risks were higher for all of them if they did not identify with a single race," said Dr. J. Richard Udry, principal author of a paper on the work appearing in the November issue of the American Journal of Public Health.

"Most of the risk items we assessed may be related to stress, and so we believe being of mixed race is a source of stress," Udry said. "From this work, we cannot identify further the sources of that stress. More research is needed to identify those sources and possibly suggest programs that might help biracial adolescents."

Udry is professor of maternal and child health at the UNC School of Public Health, professor of sociology in UNC's College of Arts and Sciences and a fellow at the Carolina Population Center. His co-authors are Dr. Rose Marie Li, formerly of NIH, and Janet Hendrickson-Smith, research associate at the UNC center.

The new findings derive from data compiled as part of the UNC-based National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health, the largest and most comprehensive survey of teen-agers ever conducted in the United States.

In the detailed surveys they completed, students could give more than one answer when asked about their race. Those who called themselves biracial tended to be more likely to smoke and drink, Udry said. Overall, older biracial children were more likely to have sex at younger ages, to have access to guns and to have poorer experiences at school such as through suspensions, skipping class and repeating grades.

In characteristics not related to traditional risks, such as grades, vocabulary, family structure and family education, mixed-race adolescents often fell between single-race adolescents, he said. For example, Asians had higher grade-point averages than whites and were more likely to have a college-educated parent, but children with both Asian and white parents had averages between those two peer groups and were more likely to have a parent who attended college than white-only adolescents.

"Quite a few studies attest in some way to the emotional, health and behavioral risk problems of multiracial adolescents," he said. "The most common explanation for the high-risk status is the struggle with identity formation, leading to lack of self-esteem, social isolation and problems of family dynamics in biracial households."

Since some previous studies found no differences between biracial and single-race children, Udry and his colleagues wanted to explore the relative risk of mixed race adolescents with teens of a single race using a large nationally representative sample.

When first reported in 1997, Add Health showed that strong and supportive ties between parents and children helped protect adolescents against risky behaviors, including substance abuse, early sexual activity, pregnancy, emotional distress, suicide and violence.

Feeling connected with one's school and, in some cases, one's religion also helped adolescents avoid some of the pitfalls of youth, the study showed.

"These findings offered the parents of America a blueprint for what worked in protecting their kids from harm," Udry said. "Contrary to common assumptions, Add Health found that parents -- not just peers -- were extremely relevant to their children throughout adolescence," he said.

Parents trying to prevent risky behaviors in children should spend time with teen-agers, talk with them, be available to them, set high standards and send clear messages about what they want their children to do and not do, Udry and his colleagues concluded.

http://www.unc.edu/index.htm





USA Today: Multiracial patients have tough battle to find marrow matches

The hopes of his parents, both doctors in San Jose, Calif., immediately turned to a bone marrow transplant, but they soon learned some distressing news — Luke's ethnic heritage made him a tough match.

[...]

Sarah Gaskins, Luke's mother, has Japanese and European ancestors and his father, Lam Do, is Vietnamese-American. Because bone marrow matches usually are made with a relative or someone with the same racial or ethnic background as the patient, multiracial people rarely have success.

"It's tragic," said Lam Do, who specializes in internal medicine. "Your chance of finding a donor is so low, it's like winning the lottery. And most people are unaware of this."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2005-01-30-mix-marrow_x.htm


For American children, says Yoonsun Choi, assistant professor at the School of Social Service Administration, early adolescence isn’t getting any simpler. Besides the awkwardness and looming angst, there’s this: more and more youth now find themselves navigating the uncertain territory of multiracial heritage. (Even the term is ambiguous; it can refer to having parents of different races or to generations-old diversity.) The multiracial experience frequently corresponds, Choi says, with higher rates of violence and substance use. “Consistently multiracial youth show, in almost all behavior problems—alcohol, smoking, marijuana, fighting—more problems than other children.”

[...]

The differences in violent behavior were even more striking. Multiracial youths were 63 percent more likely than white respondents to have been in a fight and 65 percent more likely to have threatened to stab someone. African American students, who held even with multiracial respondents for some violent behaviors, were 39 percent less likely to have hurt someone badly and 46 percent less likely to have carried a gun.

Choi has yet to decipher all the factors that exacerbate multiracial youths’ “bad outcomes,” but racial discrimination is part of the equation. Kids act out in response to ridicule or ostracism. In junior high and high school, “some [racial] groups are very exclusive. Other children will push you out if you’re a racial combination.” In similar surveys in Hawaii, she notes, multiracial youths did not show more problems than their monoracial classmates. “It’s not even an issue there—so many people come from multiple backgrounds.” In the U.S. at large, interracial marriages account for 4 percent of the total; in Hawaii they account for nearly half.

“However, there is some indication that a strong ethnic identity” with at least one race—a sense of racial or cultural pride, belonging, and confidence—“helps protect kids from these behaviors,” Choi says. But youths must strike a sometimes difficult balance. “This research is just emerging, but it is saying that ethnic identity for multiracial children is unique. They need to endorse every part of who they are, and for children of combinations from conflicting groups”—for instance, black and white or, Choi says, Asian and black—“that will be hard.”
http://magazine.uchicago.edu/0610/investigations/problem.shtml

rhiannon
02-22-2012, 12:52 PM
Such people have genetic health problems within their families and that has nothing to do with race but just with that: genetic problems within the family line.

And that doesn't mean that I advocate racemixing but there are two extremes.

This is actually true...and in select cases, the chances for disease are actually higher if one marries another from the same ethnic group....let me give you two examples:

Tay Sachs disease....autosomal recessive...runs in Ashkenazi Jews....it is a fatal disease. When two members of the Ashkenazim choose to marry, they must be genetically tested to see if either are carriers for the recessive gene. If both of them are, resulting offspring EACH have a 25% probability of inheriting the actual disease....and a 50% chance of being a carrier of the gene.

Cystic Fibrosis is also an auto recessive disease....runs in Northern Europeans. Same chances and percentages apply.

Not fatal in the way Tay Sachs is....for TS kills the child before they ever reach their 5th birthday.....but CF will generally kill the person long before they've led a full and complete life.

Another disease: Sickle Cell Anemia. This runs in the African and certain Mediterranean populations.

You see stories like this play out all the time....so the chances for health problems are not just a problem faced by those of mixed parentage.

For anyone who questions this post: I am a healthcare professional. I know what the hell I am talking about:)

The Lawspeaker
02-22-2012, 12:59 PM
Hawaiki was Taiwan and Maori got to New Zealand 1000 years ago in their Waka and started killing the trees after 200 years of being in New Zealand and hunted the Moa.
It's a weird thing that you can't even tell the difference between the first Maori in New Zealand and Waitangi. Which was in 1840. And you are from New Zealand ? That's terrible. I would be ashamed of myself if I flunked my national history in such a stupid way.




Maori are on the news and Police Ten 7 all the time for violence, gangs and depression etc. I've already posted the health problems.
The news is meant to be sensationalist rubbish. Otherwise they wouldn't sell newspapers and television subscriptions.

CelticViking
02-22-2012, 01:50 PM
It's a weird thing that you can't even tell the difference between the first Maori in New Zealand and Waitangi. Which was in 1840. And you are from New Zealand ? That's terrible. I would be ashamed of myself if I flunked my national history in such a stupid way.
The news is meant to be sensationalist rubbish. Otherwise they wouldn't sell newspapers and television subscriptions.

The Maori violence really has not changed much over 1000 years , just like the Africans and African Americans and Abo haven't really changed. You can deny the fact about Maori crime and the death of little babies but it isn't rubbish. The Maori were killing and even eating each other before we came and they are still killing each other and If we left this country it would become a Third world and all the birds would die out. You can try and take my identity and culture away, you can put down all those brave men that faught in wars for this country and for the British. You can try make me self-conscious, unwelcome here and sad but I'm still not going to race mix just because you might do, because I have pride, honour and respect for all my ancestors, brothers and sisters, no matter where they were born. We have enough diversity with hair,eye colour, skin tone, culture and many other things and there are lots of Celtic + Germanic people in many countries for me and others like me to choose from.

I know what I am and that is not nothing, I'm Celtic and a Germanic.


The term New Zealand European refers to New Zealanders of European descent who identify as New Zealand Europeans rather than some other ethnic group. Most European New Zealanders are of British and Irish ancestry, with smaller percentages of other European ancestries such as Croatians, Germans, French, Dutch, Scandinavian and South Slav


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_European

I see that we are all welcome to Apricity for being of European descent and you can't change that and I don't care if you agree, I don't see myself as a mutt and I'm not going to race mix just because you don't see me as worthy or other's as worthy and treat them like they are nothing.


http://lithobolos.net/sites/default/files/images/No_Race_Mixing_Blond.jpg


And it doesn't make me a racist or evil, Many famous White/European people, Asians, Mohammed Ali and Hone Harawira have also been anti interracial relationships too.

The Lawspeaker
02-22-2012, 02:17 PM
The Maori violence really has not changed much over 1000 years , just like the Africans and African Americans and Abo haven't really changed. You can deny the fact about Maori crime and the death of little babies but it isn't rubbish. The Maori were killing and even eating each other before we came and they are still killing each other and If we left this country it would become a Third world and all the birds would die out. You can try and take my identity and culture away, you can put down all those brave men that faught in wars for this country and for the British. You can try make me self-conscious, unwelcome here and sad but I'm still not going to race mix just because you might do, because I have pride, honour and respect for all my ancestors, brothers and sisters, no matter where they were born. We have enough diversity with hair,eye colour, skin tone, culture and many other things and there are lots of Celtic + Germanic people in many countries for me and others like me to choose from.
Bla bla bla bla. The fact remains that you're not European. You're not English, you're not Welsh or you're not whatever: you're from New Zealand. 24 bloody hours away from London.


I know what I am and that is not nothing, I'm Celtic and a Germanic.
You wouldn't even know what Germanic and Celtic is if it would hit you in the face.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_European

I see that we are all welcome to Apricity for being of European descent and you can't change that and I don't care if you agree, I don't see myself as a mutt and I'm not going to race mix just because you don't see me as worthy or other's as worthy and treat them like they are nothing.
.
For being of European descent does not make you European. Look up the meaning of the word descent.

I'll even help you (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/descent):


1. a : derivation from an ancestor : birth (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/birth), lineage (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/lineage) <of <i="" french="">descent> </of><of french="" <i="">

And when it comes to derivation (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/derivative):

</of>
2. : something derived (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/derived)<of french="" <i="">[/URL]

But let's just call a spade a spade - shall we ?

New Zealanders (like other colonials) are a [URL="http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/spin-off?show=0&t=1329924051"]spin-off (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/derived) from Europeans.
</of>

2.: a collateral or derived product or effect : by-product (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/by-product); also : a number of such products <the <i="">spin–off from the space program> </the><of french="" <i=""><the <i="">


</the></of>
3.: something that is imitative or derivative of an earlier work, product, or establishment; especially : a television show starring a character popular in a secondary role of an earlier show.<of french="" <i=""><the <i="">


(And thus not the real deal)


The tag "European New Zealander" is about as fraught as calling a herring a salmon. You can't be European if you are from outside Europe.</the></of>

Aemma
02-22-2012, 02:23 PM
That kind of jawline probably came from the line of original Slavs/Norsks.

I would determine it as "Germanic" myself for it is most readily seen in Teutonic/Germanic Peoples. I don't know enough about Slavic anthropometrics to make any statement on this either way. :/

Thunor
02-22-2012, 04:01 PM
Bla bla bla bla. The fact remains that you're not European. You're not English, you're not Welsh or you're not whatever: you're from New Zealand. 24 bloody hours away from London.
How long have you been harping on about this? Dude, you sound like a broken record.

CelticViking is derived from Northwestern Europe, like I am. We're racially and culturally European, despite not being geographically in Europe. Of course, I'm not "European" in the sense that I'm a citizen of an European country. However, the general consensus on this forum is that European culture extends to other continents, outside of the Old World. In my eyes, the difference between Brits and New Zealanders is smaller than the difference between the Brits and, say, Spaniards. Thus, European colonials are European national groups of their own and should be preserved.

To make a long story short: I'm more European than your mongoloid beauty or any other non-whites you bed down with. ;)

The Lawspeaker
02-22-2012, 04:38 PM
To make a long story short: I'm more European than your mongoloid beauty or any other non-whites you bed down with. ;)
You're not European at all. Because if you don't have a passport of a European country by right of birth (because your parents are from a European country and are passport holders) then you're not one.


I am European and why am I European ?

Dutch father, Dutch mother.

One of my friends has a right to hold a passport and holds one. Why ?

He is half Thai, half Dutch.

Thus what does he have ? Direct Dutch lineage.


What do you have ? Nothing. No European parent, no right of return. No nothing. All in all: you're about as European as the Paki down the road and you can shove that knowledge up your butt, gaijin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaijin) boy.

jerney
02-22-2012, 04:45 PM
Civis, what if the parents were both European passport holders, but ethnically Thai, for example. Would their child be considered "European" in your eyes?

The Lawspeaker
02-22-2012, 04:47 PM
Civis, what if the parents were both European passport holders, but ethnically Thai, for example. Would their child be considered "European" in your eyes?
No. Because they ought to be ethnically European (thus Greek, German, Dutch etc). You have lived here for some time now, jerney, and you even married a Greak so you should know how jus sanguinis works and that system is in use all over Europe so you can't claim ignorance.

So for you colonials one last time:

Parent 1 Dutch - Parent 2 foreign (regardless of race or nationality)= child is rightfully a Dutch citizen and thus rightfully Dutch.

Parent 1 Dutch - Parent 2 Dutch = child is rightfully Dutch.

Parent 1 foreign - Parent 2 just as foreign (regardless of race or nationality) = regardless whether the Wilhelmus was sung while the mother gave birth in a damn windmill while selling tulips and Gouda cheese. The child is a foreigner.

And, my dear Jerney, since you married a Greek and you live here in Europe and you have lived in Germany before: your lack of knowledge of the way ethnicities works and on how jus sanguinis (a basic principle of European nationality laws btw) works show that maybe you need to work on your integration course. Seriously. You are the about the last person here that should be in the dark about it.

Jon Snow
02-22-2012, 05:00 PM
No. Because they ought to be ethnically European (thus Greek, German, Dutch etc). You have lived here for some time now, jerney, and you even married a Greak so you should know how jus sanguinis works and that system is in use all over Europe so you can't claim ignorance.

So for you colonials one last time:

Parent 1 Dutch - Parent 2 foreign (regardless of race or nationality)= child is rightfully a Dutch citizen and thus rightfully Dutch.

Parent 1 Dutch - Parent 2 Dutch = child is rightfully Dutch.

Parent 1 foreign - Parent 2 just a foreign = regardless whether the Wilhelmus was sung while the mother gave birth in a damn windmill while selling tulips and Gouda cheese. The child is a foreigner.

And, my dear Jerney, since you married a Greek and you live here in Europe and you have lived in Germany before: your lack of knowledge of the way ethnicities works and on how jus sanguinis (a basic principle of European nationality laws btw) works show that maybe you need to work on your integration course. Seriously. You are the about the last person here that should be in the dark about it.

https://applications.ausd.net/classlink/images/Barclay-failure-of-logic-fail-demotivational-poster-1209989155.jpg

The Lawspeaker
02-22-2012, 05:02 PM
https://applications.ausd.net/classlink/images/Barclay-failure-of-logic-fail-demotivational-poster-1209989155.jpg
Life is a bitch, in'nit ? Knowing that you would be considered foreign here ?
And about as welcome as a fucking Paki (who you as well take with you back to your fucking melting pot after we have kicked you out).

European Loyalist
02-22-2012, 05:12 PM
Thunor I don't know why you can't grasp that American culture =/= a European culture.

Think about it this way, even the citizens of St. Pierre et Miquelon (a French oversees territory next to Canada), are culturally unique from Continental France. They have pure French blood and speak French and live under French rule, but they have cultural uniqueness. They are Miquelonians and St Pierrais first, THEN French.

Each geographic region has it's own story, it's own history, it's own unique peoples. That takes time to develop of course. When the French first landed in Canada they were as culturally French as the French back in Paris. But time and geography and history changed that. There hasn't been anywhere in the New World that is purely culturally European since about the 19th century.

Now, since we live in the era of globalization it is quite clear that there is a cultural convergeance happening, especially in the western anglosphere. But that is fairly recent and it is not European culture, rather western-anglosphere culture.

Colonials and new worlders are not culturally European. They may live in European influenced societies and they may have European blood, but they are culturally different. At the very best such people can identify as hyphenated persons (Scots-Canadian, Dutch-Australian, etc...) if for instance their ethnic culture has been passed down by their family and they make an effort to connect with their ethnic-heritage.

The Lawspeaker
02-22-2012, 05:14 PM
European Loyalist (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/member.php?u=4238): you have earned your rep. point. :thumb001:

Joe McCarthy
02-22-2012, 06:56 PM
Thunor I don't know why you can't grasp that American culture =/= a European culture.

Think about it this way, even the citizens of St. Pierre et Miquelon (a French oversees territory next to Canada), are culturally unique from Continental France. They have pure French blood and speak French and live under French rule, but they have cultural uniqueness. They are Miquelonians and St Pierrais first, THEN French.

Each geographic region has it's own story, it's own history, it's own unique peoples. That takes time to develop of course. When the French first landed in Canada they were as culturally French as the French back in Paris. But time and geography and history changed that. There hasn't been anywhere in the New World that is purely culturally European since about the 19th century.

Now, since we live in the era of globalization it is quite clear that there is a cultural convergeance happening, especially in the western anglosphere. But that is fairly recent and it is not European culture, rather western-anglosphere culture.

Colonials and new worlders are not culturally European. They may live in European influenced societies and they may have European blood, but they are culturally different. At the very best such people can identify as hyphenated persons (Scots-Canadian, Dutch-Australian, etc...) if for instance their ethnic culture has been passed down by their family and they make an effort to connect with their ethnic-heritage.

This would be much more convincing if 'European culture' were monolithic enough to be distinguishable from 'colonial culture'. It obviously isn't. A Quebecer still has much more in common with Frenchmen than an Albanian does. For that matter, so does an American.

Other examples are legion. Irish Americans in Boston have more in common with Ireland than Bulgaria does. The Dutch have more in common with Canada than they do the Russian Urals. Norway has more in common with Minnesota or North Dakota than it does Bosnia.

And that is just for starters.

The Lawspeaker
02-22-2012, 07:01 PM
This would be much more convincing if 'European culture' were monolithic enough to be distinguishable from 'colonial culture'. It obviously isn't. A Quebecer still has much more in common with Frenchmen than an Albanian does. For that matter, so does an American.

Other examples are legion. Irish Americans in Boston have more in common with Ireland than Bulgaria does. The Dutch have more in common with Canada than they do the Russian Urals. Norway has more in common with Minnesota or North Dakota than it does Bosnia.

And that is just for starters.
Another American that thinks that he knows his stuff. EL covered it very well and "much more in common with.." is a non-issue. It is or it isn't: cheers.

Since you yanks are obviously too fucking thick to read. Let me try it some other way:

Example 1.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/Paspoort_NL.jpg/220px-Paspoort_NL.jpg

+

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/Paspoort_NL.jpg/220px-Paspoort_NL.jpg

=

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/Paspoort_NL.jpg/220px-Paspoort_NL.jpg


Example 2.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/Paspoort_NL.jpg/220px-Paspoort_NL.jpg

+

ANY PASSPORT but let's use your passport so you might finally understand what I mean:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-6yhNXbP6-_c/TjG5kefpLCI/AAAAAAAAAGQ/9vI__WmgbgM/s1600/Passport.jpg


=

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/Paspoort_NL.jpg/220px-Paspoort_NL.jpg



Example 3:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-6yhNXbP6-_c/TjG5kefpLCI/AAAAAAAAAGQ/9vI__WmgbgM/s1600/Passport.jpg

+

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-6yhNXbP6-_c/TjG5kefpLCI/AAAAAAAAAGQ/9vI__WmgbgM/s1600/Passport.jpg


While:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/ff/KinderdijkMolens02.jpg/300px-KinderdijkMolens02.jpg

=

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-6yhNXbP6-_c/TjG5kefpLCI/AAAAAAAAAGQ/9vI__WmgbgM/s1600/Passport.jpg


Right, class, I hope you finally got the message. Class is adjourned.

2Cool
02-22-2012, 07:05 PM
No. Because they ought to be ethnically European (thus Greek, German, Dutch etc). You have lived here for some time now, jerney, and you even married a Greak so you should know how jus sanguinis works and that system is in use all over Europe so you can't claim ignorance.

So for you colonials one last time:

Parent 1 Dutch - Parent 2 foreign (regardless of race or nationality)= child is rightfully a Dutch citizen and thus rightfully Dutch.

Parent 1 Dutch - Parent 2 Dutch = child is rightfully Dutch.

Parent 1 foreign - Parent 2 just as foreign (regardless of race or nationality) = regardless whether the Wilhelmus was sung while the mother gave birth in a damn windmill while selling tulips and Gouda cheese. The child is a foreigner.

And, my dear Jerney, since you married a Greek and you live here in Europe and you have lived in Germany before: your lack of knowledge of the way ethnicities works and on how jus sanguinis (a basic principle of European nationality laws btw) works show that maybe you need to work on your integration course. Seriously. You are the about the last person here that should be in the dark about it.

What happens in this scenario:

You have one dutch parent who has a kid with a foreigner. Therefore that child is also Dutch, correct? Now, what happens if in all further generations their offsprings have children with a foreigner? After 4-5 generations would they still be considered dutch?

The Lawspeaker
02-22-2012, 07:07 PM
What happens in this scenario:

You have one dutch parent who has a kid with a foreigner. Therefore that child is also Dutch, correct? Now, what happens if in all further generations their offsprings have children with a foreigner? After 4-5 generations would they still be considered dutch?
Stupid question. Try again.

2Cool
02-22-2012, 07:10 PM
Stupid question. Try again.

Answer it.

Joe McCarthy
02-22-2012, 07:12 PM
Another American that thinks that he knows his stuff. EL covered it very well and "much more in common with.." is a non-issue. It is or it isn't: cheers.

Since you yanks are obviously think to read. Let me try it some other way:

Example 1.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/Paspoort_NL.jpg/220px-Paspoort_NL.jpg

+

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/Paspoort_NL.jpg/220px-Paspoort_NL.jpg

=

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/Paspoort_NL.jpg/220px-Paspoort_NL.jpg


Example 2.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/Paspoort_NL.jpg/220px-Paspoort_NL.jpg

+

ANY PASSPORT but let's use a passport from a non-Western country just to set an example:

http://wwwdelivery.superstock.com/WI/223/1598/PreviewComp/SuperStock_1598R-70524.jpg


=

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/Paspoort_NL.jpg/220px-Paspoort_NL.jpg



Example 3:

http://wwwdelivery.superstock.com/WI/223/1598/PreviewComp/SuperStock_1598R-70524.jpg

+

http://wwwdelivery.superstock.com/WI/223/1598/PreviewComp/SuperStock_1598R-70524.jpg


While:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/ff/KinderdijkMolens02.jpg/300px-KinderdijkMolens02.jpg

=

http://wwwdelivery.superstock.com/WI/223/1598/PreviewComp/SuperStock_1598R-70524.jpg


Right, class, I hope you finally got the message. Class is adjourned.


Some nigger from Senegal living in Marseilles has a European passport. By your logic he has more in common with an Irish mick than a Boston mick does.

The Lawspeaker
02-22-2012, 07:14 PM
Some nigger from Senegal living in Marseilles has a European passport. By your logic he has more in common with an Irish mick than a Boston mick does.
Are you really thick, do you have reading problems or are you playing dumb ?

WHAT DOES JUS SANGUINIS MEAN ?

http://msmagazine.com/blog/files/2011/01/Report-card-F.jpg

The Lawspeaker
02-22-2012, 07:18 PM
Answer it.
Read up on jus sanguinis and then come back to me. Until then: fuck off.

Joe McCarthy
02-22-2012, 07:22 PM
Are you really thick, do you have reading problems or are you playing dumb ?

WHAT DOES JUS SANGUINIS MEAN ?

http://msmagazine.com/blog/files/2011/01/Report-card-F.jpg

I don't even know what point you're trying to make here. It seems you're throwing around passports in order to try and demonstrate some definitive gulf between Americans and Europeans that doesn't exist. 'European culture', to the extent it exists, is not unique enough from 'colonial culture' for one to say it is distinct from it. There is a tremendous amount of overlap. Those who say otherwise either haven't thought about the subject much, or are anti-American ideologues trying to build an anti-US 'Dublin to the Urals' bloc.

The Lawspeaker
02-22-2012, 07:24 PM
I don't even know what point you're trying to make here. It seems you're throwing around passports in order to try and demonstrate some definitive gulf between Americans and Europeans that doesn't exist. 'European culture', to the extent it exists, is not unique enough from 'colonial culture' for one to say it is distinct from it. There is a tremendous amount of overlap. Those who say otherwise either haven't thought about the subject much, or are anti-American ideologues trying to build an anti-US 'Dublin to the Urals' bloc.
Idiot. I am trying to explain how jus sanguinis works (which I have been doing for the past few days) but you're obviously too fucking stupid and too fucking ill-informed about anything taking place outside your mummy's basement to be able to grasp it.

So my advise is to shut up from now and look stuff up before you make yourself look like a complete and utter fool. Right: scram !

Joe McCarthy
02-22-2012, 07:38 PM
Idiot. I am trying to explain how jus sanguinis works (which I have been doing for the past few days) but you're obviously too fucking stupid and too fucking ill-informed about anything taking place outside your mummy's basement to be able to grasp it.

So my advise is to shut up from now and look stuff up before you make yourself look like a complete and utter fool. Right: scram !

http://sonsoflars.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10005/U-mad-brah-U-hatin.jpg

The Lawspeaker
02-22-2012, 07:39 PM
http://sonsoflars.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10005/U-mad-brah-U-hatin.jpg
Piss off.

2Cool
02-22-2012, 07:39 PM
Ad Hominem: Logical fallacy of choice used by people who can't defend their arguments.

The Lawspeaker
02-22-2012, 07:40 PM
Ad Hominem: Logical fallacy of choice used by people who can't defend their arguments.
And you should fuck off too. If you would only have bothered to read you would have known how it all works.

jerney
02-22-2012, 07:47 PM
No. Because they ought to be ethnically European (thus Greek, German, Dutch etc). You have lived here for some time now, jerney, and you even married a Greak so you should know how jus sanguinis works and that system is in use all over Europe so you can't claim ignorance.

So for you colonials one last time:

Parent 1 Dutch - Parent 2 foreign (regardless of race or nationality)= child is rightfully a Dutch citizen and thus rightfully Dutch.

Parent 1 Dutch - Parent 2 Dutch = child is rightfully Dutch.

Parent 1 foreign - Parent 2 just as foreign (regardless of race or nationality) = regardless whether the Wilhelmus was sung while the mother gave birth in a damn windmill while selling tulips and Gouda cheese. The child is a foreigner.

And, my dear Jerney, since you married a Greek and you live here in Europe and you have lived in Germany before: your lack of knowledge of the way ethnicities works and on how jus sanguinis (a basic principle of European nationality laws btw) works show that maybe you need to work on your integration course. Seriously. You are the about the last person here that should be in the dark about it.


Know how it works? I know my beliefs fine. In case you don't remember, it was me disagreeing with you years back when you were trying to defend assimilated Indonesians and other Asians as equally Dutch/European. It was me telling you that was insane and I still have the same views today. I would never consider them European, never have and never will and never did I give any indication that's what I was implying with my question today. I was simply asking how you felt about that particular arrangement because I know your views used to be quite a bit more "liberal", let's say.

2Cool
02-22-2012, 07:50 PM
And you should fuck off too. If you would only have bothered to read you would have known how it all works.



Parent 1 Dutch - Parent 2 foreign (regardless of race or nationality)= child is rightfully a Dutch citizen and thus rightfully Dutch.


It would logically follow that if this person, a Dutch, married a foreigner the son would also be rightfully a Dutch. Then that son, a Dutch, would marry a foreigner, and have a Dutch son etc. Each child would be Dutch in this case.

I am simply expanding on what you are saying. If what I said was wrong then at what point does a Dutch cease to become Dutch?

Also if you believe in jus sanguinis, and not jus soli, then an American with a Dutch parent would also be Dutch. Yet from your posts you don't seem to believe that. Your beliefs are inconsistent.

The Lawspeaker
02-22-2012, 07:51 PM
Know how it works? I know my beliefs fine. In case you don't remember, it was me disagreeing with you years back when you were trying to defend assimilated Indonesians as equally Dutch. It was me telling you that was insane. I would never consider them European, never have, never will and never did I give any indication that's what I was implying with my question today. I was simply asking how you felt about that particular arrangement because I know your views used to be quite a bit more "liberal", let's say.

That's not entirely true as I refered to INDO-DUTCH (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo_people) which are not Indonesians. The fact remains that I believe in a jus sanguinis policy so that means (and I will write it in very big letters so you Americans actually understand it for once):


THAT A CHILD BORN TO TWO FOREIGNERS IN THIS SHOULD NOT, AND I REPEAT NOT, HAVE A DUTCH PASSPORT OR CONSIDERED DUTCH AND THAT THOSE IMMIGRANTS (OF ANY RACE OR OTHER NATIONALITY) THAT HAVE RECEIVED A DUTCH PASSPORT WHILE NOT BEING MARRIED TO A DUTCH PERSON SHOULD LOSE IT.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/Paspoort_NL.jpg/220px-Paspoort_NL.jpg

This passport is for Dutch only.. and should be not be given to an American or a Japanese or Indonesian or whatever gaijin unless that person is married to a native-born Dutch citizen and even then it shouldn't be completely automatic.

jerney
02-22-2012, 07:55 PM
My point was don't try to preach to me about this when I was the one who was originally preaching to you about this very concept. You look like an asshole doing so.

And just so you know, I'm a German citizen. ;)

The Lawspeaker
02-22-2012, 07:56 PM
It would logically follow that if this person, a Dutch, married a foreigner the son would also be rightfully a Dutch. Then that son, a Dutch, would marry a foreigner, and have a Dutch son etc. Each child would be Dutch in this case.
Most people hand over their passport anyway when they get married and that would be a nice legal issue which, by my knowledge, has never happened in this country. If it would happen one day I will gladly keep you informed of the court proceedings because that would mean that there is a loophole in the law.



Also if you believe in jus sanguinis, and not jus soli, then an American with a Dutch parent would also be Dutch. Yet from your posts you don't seem to believe that. Your beliefs are inconsistent.
Wrong again. If that person is American then that person is American because he has willingly given up his passport and is therefore no longer Dutch.

The Lawspeaker
02-22-2012, 07:59 PM
And just so you know, I'm a German citizen. ;)
Germany has a similar issue as the Netherlands: it has given out passport like bloody candies to people who have no business there anyway. (like Turks, Moroccans, Americans)

In your case: you ought not have a German passport since you're not married to a German and I am not sure whether you have German parents ?

I think that it should be made very difficult to acquire citizenship and should only be acquired through birth (via jus sanguinis), adoption or marriage.

2Cool
02-22-2012, 08:02 PM
Most people hand over their passport anyway when they get married and that would be a nice legal issue which, by my knowledge, has never happened in this country. If it would happen one day I will gladly keep you informed of the court precedings.



Wrong again. If that person is American then that person is American because he has willingly given up his passport and is therefore no longer Dutch.


Dual citizenship

Although Dutch law restricts dual citizenship, it is possible for Dutch subjects to legally hold dual citizenship in a number of circumstances, including:

those who acquire another citizenship at the time of birth (for example, a child born to Dutch parents in the United States would hold both U.S. and Dutch citizenship).

persons who acquire Dutch citizenship through the option procedure (including former Dutch citizens resuming citizenship)

persons who become naturalised Dutch subjects, who obtain an exemption from the requirement to renounce their foreign citizenship, such as those married to Dutch subjects.

Dutch subjects who naturalise in another country who are exempted from the loss of nationality rule (such as those married to a citizen/subject of that country).



What happens then? They'd have 2 passports. Either way, using a passport is a stupid way to classify the ethnicity of a person.

The Lawspeaker
02-22-2012, 08:04 PM
What happens then? They'd have 2 passports. Either way, using a passport is a stupid way to classify the ethnicity of a person.
A passport should be a membership card of a society and not just a purple booklet handed over with two parcels of cheese and a bottle of coke at your local discount supermarket. A passport should be the psychical and paper manifestation of what you are: a member of a nation. A citizen by birth of ones people.

And the dual citizenship clause is understandable because that is based on the American jus soli which is taken into account.

When I have my passport with me when I am abroad there is this little note in it:

'In naam van Hare Majesteit de Koningin der Nederlanden, Prinses van Oranje-Nassau, enz. enz. enz., verzoekt de Minister van Buitenlandse Zaken alle overheden van bevriende staten aan de houder van dit paspoort vrije en ongehinderde doorgang te verlenen alsmede alle hulp en bijstand te verschaffen.'

In the name of her Majesty the Queen of the Netherlands, Princess of Orange-Nassau, etc.etc.etc., the Minister of Foreign Affairs requests all authorities of friendly powers to allow the bearer of the present passport to pass freely without let or hindrance and to afford the bearer every assistance and protection which may be necessary."

Knowing that I am a Dutchman and that this passport is also my best friend when I am abroad and that, whenever something happens to me in a foreign country, I can always help on diplomatic staff representing my country abroad. That you will be helped by your kin and countrymen.


<dl><dd>
</dd></dl>

jerney
02-22-2012, 08:11 PM
Germany has a similar issue as the Netherlands: it has given out passport like bloody candies to people who have no business there anyway.

In your case: you ought not to be German since you're not married to a German and I am not sure whether you have German parents ?

I think that it should be made very difficult to acquire citizenship and should only be acquired through birth (via jus sanguinis), adoption or marriage.

I have a German parent and was born there, jackass. I have an American father and was raised in the US. And as if Germany (or any European country) easily gives away passports to people if they're not brown and poor? Get a grip because you're sounding more desperate as you go.

You're just a silly idiot who goes from one extreme to another. First you want to let in all Asians as long as they "assimilate" then you go opposite side and say even a person born abroad with a Dutch/European parent doesn't deserve a European passport. If the person is of fully European heritage and speaks the language of their parents' country and does not find the culture foreign, they're more deserving, or at the very least equally deserving, of the passport than some non-European/European mix.

The Lawspeaker
02-22-2012, 08:15 PM
I have a German parent and was born there, jackass. And as if Germany (or any European country) easily gives away passports to people if they're not brown and poor? Get a grip because you're sounding more desperate as you go.
Well - there are a GREAT NUMBER of white foreigners as well that use a Dutch passport because they "integrated" and the same goes for Germany btw and you should know that as that goes for ANY European country these days.



You're just a silly idiot who goes from one extreme to another. First you want to let in all Asians as long as they "assimilate" then you go opposite side and say even a person born abroad with a Dutch/European parent doesn't deserve a European passport. If the person is of fully European heritage and speaks the language of their parents' country and does not find the culture foreign, they're more deserving, or at the very least equally deserving, of the passport than some non-European/European mix.
American racialist thinking vs. ethnic thinking. You may have had a German parent but you clearly know not the slightest bit about what it is to be a member of an ethnic nation. If anything then you would maybe be the reason why people shouldn't mix at all because with your ideas I don't think that many Germans would consider you to be German. A German is a German. Dot. Not some semi-American with ideas that would amuse many Germans as odd and outlandish and would have the same effect here.

And I think you still ignore jus sanguinis: if a person WITH A - INSERT EUROPEAN NATIONALITY - PARENT IS BORN EVEN IN A MUD HUT IN PAPUA NEW GUINEA OR IN A SUBURB OF DETROIT THEN THAT PERSON HAS A RIGHT TO A -INSERT EUROPEAN NATIONALITY - PASSPORT.

That's jus sanguinis for you. You think too much like a Yank. Too much used to jus soli.

Americans are no Germans just because they are white - deal with it and most Americans with a "European heritage" know not the slightest bit about that heritage.

jerney
02-22-2012, 08:26 PM
American racialist thinking vs. ethnic thinking. You may have had a German parent but you clearly know not the slightest bit about what it is to be a member of an ethnic nation. If anything then you would maybe be the reason why people shouldn't mix at all because with your ideas I don't think that many Germans would consider you to be German. A German is a German. Dot. Not some semi-American with ideas that would amuse many Germans as odd and outlandish and would have the same effect here.

Americans are no Germans just because they are white - deal with it and most Americans with a "European heritage" know not the slightest bit about that heritage.

lol again, you cannot argue something "against" me that I've argued myself in the past. I agree with main argument you are making, but if it makes you feel better and makes you feel like you're "teaching" me something, well then have a grand time. You seem to want to make me the enemy because I asked you a simple question based on your past and you're obviously very defensive about that. But just remember I'm not the one that had to be "taught" that Indonesians and other Asians are not and never will be European, regardless of how assimilated they seem. And you're right, a German is a German. A half Thai/half German isn't a German either regardless of if they were born and raised in Germany and speak perfect German.


Americans are no Germans just because they are white - deal with it and most Americans with a "European heritage" know not the slightest bit about that heritage.

You're right and again, I never made such a comment. You're really ready to attack an "American" for anything, even if you have to resort to creating an argument where there is none, it's kind of pathetic.

The Lawspeaker
02-22-2012, 08:27 PM
Let's make it even clearer for you in pictures.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/Paspoort_NL.jpg/220px-Paspoort_NL.jpg

+

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-6yhNXbP6-_c/TjG5kefpLCI/AAAAAAAAAGQ/9vI__WmgbgM/s1600/Passport.jpg


WHILE IN:

http://www.latourist.com/images/hollywood/hollywood-sign-closeup.jpg


=


http://goudzilverbrons.punt.nl/upload/paspoort5.jpg


Why ? Two answers:

1. American nationality law that makes everyone and his fucking dog that happens to be born in America American.

2. American law also has a component of jus sanguinis that denotes that a parent born to an American is American coupled with the Dutch law that has jus sanguinis the child would be Dutch and American.

The Lawspeaker
02-22-2012, 08:29 PM
lol again, you cannot argue something "against" me that I've argued myself in the past. I agree with main argument you are making, but if it makes you feel better and makes you feel like you're "teaching" me something, well then have a grand time. You seem to want to make me the enemy because I asked you a simple question based on your past and you're obviously very defensive about that. But just remember I'm not the one that had to be "taught" that Indonesians and other Asians are not and never will be European, regardless of how assimilated they seem. And you're right, a German is a German. A half Thai/half German isn't a German either regardless of if they were born and raised in Germany and speak perfect German.
Then the same would go for Americans. They are also foreigners thus the current law would be wrong if we would use your standards and a German-American couple should not be able to produce German children but only American children. I guess you will be at the German embassy in Athens tomorrow to hand over your passport ?

jerney
02-22-2012, 08:31 PM
Then the same would go for Americans. They are also foreigners thus the law is current law would be wrong and a German-American couple should not produce German children but only American children. I guess you will be at the German embassy in Athens tomorrow to hand over your passport ?

No, I will eventually hand over my American one. ;)

The Lawspeaker
02-22-2012, 08:31 PM
No, I will eventually hand over my American one. ;)
You're not a German by any standard and I think the Germans would agree with me.

jerney
02-22-2012, 08:33 PM
You're not a German by any standard and I think the Germans would agree with me.

Well, according to your argument, I am. :wink

The Lawspeaker
02-22-2012, 08:34 PM
Now while all the Americans are bitching about jus sanguinis are too busy bitching about that let's look at the United States. And what does American law say ?

http://wiki-images.enotes.com/thumb/4/49/Tonys2.pics_538.jpg/200px-Tonys2.pics_538.jpg

+

http://wiki-images.enotes.com/thumb/4/49/Tonys2.pics_538.jpg/200px-Tonys2.pics_538.jpg

WHILE IN:

http://www.latourist.com/images/hollywood/hollywood-sign-closeup.jpg

=

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-6yhNXbP6-_c/TjG5kefpLCI/AAAAAAAAAGQ/9vI__WmgbgM/s1600/Passport.jpg

Look who shouldn't be talking...

The Lawspeaker
02-22-2012, 08:35 PM
Well, according to your argument, I am. :wink
According to your own argument you're not. :wink Since half-foreigner can't be German according to you.... neither are you.

poiuytrewq0987
02-22-2012, 08:37 PM
Both of my parents are Macedonian but since Macedonian ethnicity is fake. Does that mean I can choose to assimilate in any European country or do I need to be sent back to the abyss?

The Lawspeaker
02-22-2012, 08:37 PM
Both of my parents are Macedonian but since Macedonian ethnicity is fake. Does that mean I can choose to assimilate in any European country or do I need to be sent back to the abyss?
United States.

I guess that we should just take in all the passports handed over to the immigrants and we should be o.k since then we can legally kick them out.

When it comes to America: you guys have a major problem on your hands. You really need to look at us and at Japan and REFORM your nationality law from the ground up because this current law will run you into the FASTER then our immigration policies.

poiuytrewq0987
02-22-2012, 08:39 PM
United States.

Normally I would agree with you but seeing how I have 0 American friends and I do not even participate in American culture nor its events. America is not my country and soon I will complete the disconnection by the renouncing of my citizenship in short few months. Will go on my life as a stateless person.

jerney
02-22-2012, 08:40 PM
According to your own argument you're not. :wink Since half-foreigner can't be German according to you.... neither are you.

I said a half European/half non-ethnic European, pay attention. :thumbs up

But, according to you, that combination can produce a "legitimate" European.

The Lawspeaker
02-22-2012, 08:41 PM
I said a half European/half non-European, pay attention. :thumbs up
Half foreign is half foreign. It makes no difference to me and many other Europeans.

http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/files/images/German%20passport.jpg

http://edsvikenf.blogg.se/images/2009/pass_54273623.jpg

http://turkeymacedonia.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/diavatirio-greek-passport.jpg?w=460

http://img3.custompublish.com/getfile.php/1270545.623.fsfprsfype/280x0/4795446_1270545.jpg

Foreigners, foreigners all are damned bloody foreigners.. including Americans. Especially Americans.


While this:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d4/Nederlanden_paspoort.jpg/220px-Nederlanden_paspoort.jpg

Is not foreign.

StonyArabia
02-22-2012, 08:41 PM
In the U.S and Canada if you are born than you are seen as a citizen of the country. They are many people who a came from Iraq, China, Afghanista ect and their new borns are Canadian citizens as the Maple leaf! I myself hold American citizenship because I was born there Colorado baby!

jerney
02-22-2012, 08:45 PM
Half foreign is half foreign.

Well didn't you say that that mix qualifies for a European passport if they were born and raised in a European country?

I guess my kids won't be Greek either since I'm not Greek. Good to know.

The Lawspeaker
02-22-2012, 08:47 PM
Well didn't you say that that mix qualifies for a European passport if they were born and raised in a European country?

I guess my kids won't be Greek either since I'm not Greek. Good to know.
I am just using your logic against you. That's how ethnicity works. Mixing is mixing.

They would be Greek because their father is Greek and not Greek because their mother isn't Greek. Regardless of where they were born or raised. That's jus sanguinis for you and that's why they would hold two passports unless Greek law states otherwise.

billErobreren
02-22-2012, 08:49 PM
Both of my parents are Macedonian but since Macedonian ethnicity is fake. Does that mean I can choose to assimilate in any European country or do I need to be sent back to the abyss?
Just go to Greece or Bulgaria. you'll be fine


Normally I would agree with you but seeing how I have 0 American friends and I do not even participate in American culture nor its events. America is not my country and soon I will complete the disconnection by the renouncing of my citizenship in short few months. Will go on my life as a stateless person.

by that logic I'm a foreigner as well.:rolleyes:

poiuytrewq0987
02-22-2012, 08:55 PM
Just go to Greece or Bulgaria. you'll be fine


No. I have certain needs that those countries won't be able to provide. Bulgaria I won't mind moving there if its economy was on par with Czechia for example. Greece is a funny joke, don't feel Greek.


by that logic I'm a foreigner as well.:rolleyes:

Except I was not born here, both of my parents are not American. We had Yugo citizenship. You also have mixed ancestry, quite common in Americans, and you probably practice a local form of American culture with your family so... you're not truly a foreigner.

jerney
02-22-2012, 08:58 PM
I am just using your logic against you. That's how ethnicity works. Mixing is mixing.

It's not my logic. Here's your thing about extremes again. You actually don't understand ethnicity because you again think that something non-European is equal to something that is ethnically European. I would never consider someone who was born in America and got a European passport through ancestry to be "equal" to say, a fully Irish person born and raised in Ireland. At the same time I don't consider a half Indonesian/half Dutch person to be equal to someone who is fully Dutch. The absolutism in your argument is ridiculous though. Mixing is not mixing. Intra European mixing is not comparable to European-non-European mixing


They would be Greek because their father is Greek and not Greek because their mother isn't Greek. Regardless of where they were born or raised.

Well, that's not how they be viewed in Greece. They'd be considered fully Greek by Greek people. Absinthe has an American mother. Will you tell her she's not really Greek? I'd like to see that.

billErobreren
02-22-2012, 09:14 PM
No. I have certain needs that those countries won't be able to provide. Bulgaria I won't mind moving there if its economy was on par with Czechia for example. Greece is a funny joke, don't feel Greek.
right....totally un-American of you.
"I don't like this place anymore, I wanna move to a different country probably the one with the best pussy"
reasonable enough but it just turns out I'm a bigger cheap-ass than a wannabe
or the ever-painful
"I'm European by blood so when I move to X-country & they're gonna be with open arms waiting for me & I'm gonna be like "Hey guys, look at me I'm one of you now isn't this great? tee hee" everything will perfect from then on"


Except I was not born here
yeah....neither was I. good God I'm getting bored already.

both of my parents are not American. We had Yugo citizenship.
my father is a Dane(which is known by some), I speak Danish, spent my early childhood in Denmark & guess what? I hated Tivoli & Tøndeslagnig as much as I hate Disney World & Thanksgiving here!:coffee:


You also have mixed ancestry, quite common in Americans,
oh WAH! & I'm gonna kill myself because you pointed that out:(


and you probably practice a local form of American culture with your family so... you're not truly a foreigner.
right, just last night I was in a luau, Super Bowl, corn eating contest, hoe down, BBQ:rolleyes: get real dude I'm as big a sociopath as they come & I avoid people because I hate not to feel more "foreign" to Americans, I avoid anyone irrelevant of any issues, at the end of the day I only care about how I see myself & am not here begging for acceptance.

poiuytrewq0987
02-22-2012, 09:20 PM
right....totally un-American of you.
"I don't like this place anymore, I wanna move to a different country probably the one with the best pussy"
reasonable enough but it just turns out I'm a bigger cheap-ass than a wannabe
or the ever-painful
"I'm European by blood so when I move to X-country & they're gonna be with open arms waiting for me & I'm gonna be like "Hey guys, look at me I'm one of you now isn't this great? tee hee" everything will perfect from then on"


yeah....neither was I. good God I'm getting bored already.

my father is a Dane(which is known by some), I speak Danish, spent my early childhood in Denmark & guess what? I hated Tivoli & Tøndeslagnig as much as I hate Disney World & Thanksgiving here!:coffee:


oh WAH! & I'm gonna kill myself because you pointed that out:(


right, just last night I was in a luau, Super Bowl, corn eating contest, hoe down, BBQ:rolleyes: get real dude I'm as big a sociopath as they come & I avoid people because I hate not to feel more "foreign" to Americans, I avoid anyone irrelevant of any issues, at the end of the day I only care about how I see myself & am not here begging for acceptance.

You know nothing about me.

http://i705.photobucket.com/albums/ww52/GraffitiBomber/Stencils/middle-finger-image.gif

The Lawspeaker
02-22-2012, 09:27 PM
It's not my logic. Here's your thing about extremes again. You actually don't understand ethnicity because you again think that something non-European is equal to something that is ethnically European. I would never consider someone who was born in America and got a European passport through ancestry to be "equal" to say, a fully Irish person born and raised in Ireland. At the same time I don't consider a half Indonesian/half Dutch person to be equal to someone who is fully Dutch. The absolutism in your argument is ridiculous though. Mixing is not mixing. Intra European mixing is not comparable to European-non-European mixing
Intra-European feeling is only there as an answer to American and other foreign pressure on us all. It shows us that we do have something in common: all of us are being forced to conform to absolutely ridiculous ideas that come from abroad. A foreigner is a foreigner - a German is a foreigner, a Greek is a foreigner - and Americans are ESPECIALLY foreign since they are not from Europe.

You do realise that the resistance against the EU comes forth from ETHNIC nationalism, right ? That people want their countries to remain sovereign nations.




Well, that's not how they be viewed in Greece. They'd be considered fully Greek by Greek people. Absinthe has an American mother. Will you tell her she's not really Greek? I'd like to see that.
They are weird down there but we all know that - ask the Germans or us. A half-German would have a Dutch passport but everyone would call him De Duitser. Still they would consider him to be as Dutch as a full-blooded Dutchman or a mix of let's say a Japanese and a Dutchman and it would just be used as a little nickname. But if you would have been Dutch-American people would probably be like "you're not one of ours" BECAUSE of your ideas which are very American. I actually wonder whether you speak German at all because I have never seen you post in the German section (which I browse through a lot) in English - let alone in German.

And for Absinthe: she doesn't take after her other nationality at all. She is very Greek. You on the other hand are not German but perfectly American. Ein Ausländer.

billErobreren
02-22-2012, 09:30 PM
You know nothing about me.
Nor do you about me. did I ever claim I did?:rolleyes: unlike you of course who was so quick to assume. get over your damn self:pound:

http://i705.photobucket.com/albums/ww52/GraffitiBomber/Stencils/middle-finger-image.gif

*gasp*:eek:
clever:rolleyes:

will you threaten to rape & kill me next:icon_eek:(very European behavior btw, :clap: kudos:thumbs up)
there's a noble price in your future:laugh:

The Lawspeaker
02-22-2012, 09:31 PM
will you threaten to rape & kill me next(very European behavior btw, :clap: kudos:thumbs up)
there's a noble price in your future:laugh:
Ach.. he is not Balkanoid enough for that. :thumb001::cool:

jerney
02-22-2012, 09:52 PM
Intra-European feeling is only there as an answer to American and other foreign pressure on us all. It shows us that we do have something in common: all of us are being forced to conform to absolutely ridiculous ideas that come from abroad. A foreigner is a foreigner - a German is a foreigner, a Greek is a foreigner - and Americans are ESPECIALLY foreign since they are not from Europe.

I don't know why I even bother replying to you at this point, but as you will see I've said in previous threads I don't really support Europeans mixing. As an occasional thing it's not a big deal and it's something that's been happening for centuries, but on a large scale it's detrimental to European populations. So again, if you want to stop making yourself look like a dumbass, stop trying twist my views to support your demented argument.


And for Absinthe: she doesn't take after her other nationality at all. She is very Greek. You on the other hand are not German but perfectly American. Ein Ausländer.

So now it's not based on passports, parentage, ethnicity or birth place but rather who acts "European enough" according to you? :pound: Are you on drugs? You can't even stick to your basic argument. You just change your view from one reply to the next and change it based solely on personal feelings about a person even if contradicts what you originally said. You're classic. :thumbs up

poiuytrewq0987
02-22-2012, 09:55 PM
I don't know why I even bother replying to you at this point, but as you will see I've said in previous threads I don't really support Europeans mixing. As an occasional thing it's not a big deal and it's something that's been happening for centuries, but on a large scale it's detrimental to European populations. So again, if you want to stop making yourself look like a dumbass, stop trying twist my views to support your demented argument.



So now it's not based on passports, parentage, ethnicity or birth place but rather who acts "European enough" according to you? :pound: Are you on drugs? You can't even stick to your basic argument. You just change your view from one reply to the next and change it based solely on personal feelings about a person even if contradicts what you originally said. You're classic. :thumbs up

I guess that's what happens when you try to talk to a guy with aspergers. :coffee:

The Lawspeaker
02-22-2012, 09:58 PM
I don't know why I even bother replying to you at this point, but as you will see I've said in previous threads I don't really support Europeans mixing. As an occasional thing it's not a big deal and it's something that's been happening for centuries, but on a large scale it's detrimental to European populations. So again, if you want to stop making yourself look like a dumbass, stop trying twist my views to support your demented argument.
Then why do you do it yourself ? ;)

I don't support large scaled mixing either (of Dutch with Germans, or Poles or whatever or with people from outside Europe) but there it is: a racially motivated criteria for citizenship (throwing away those with a non-European parent because it happens to suit some racists) is completely un-Dutch and un-European. It wasn't even done in the East Indies (where natives didn't have citizenship but where mixed people DID if their Dutch parent recognised them).




So now it's not based on passports, parentage, ethnicity or birth place but rather who acts "European enough" according to you? :pound: Are you on drugs? You can't even stick to your basic argument. You just change your view from one reply to the next and change it based solely on personal feelings about a person even if contradicts what you originally said. You're classic. :thumbs up
Well. I am just following you along. You may have a German passport because one of your two parents was German. I don't think that your ideas are very much based on German political thought (which is actually what we follow here).

You on the other have been influenced a great deal by American hillbilly racism which has different origins from our kind of political ideas here: we were/are an society with an ethnicity not like a America a collection of confused colonials that don't even know what they are because they are so mixed. The Dutch retained an ethnicity (like the Germans) whereas the Americans are the product of large-scaled mixing with the only thing setting them apart from others the colour of their skin.

So, you're more taking a cue after the American ideologies and are thus, I think, about as unwelcome as someone who is half-Moroccan and who is supportive of Islam.

The Lawspeaker
02-22-2012, 09:59 PM
I guess that's what happens when you try to talk to a guy with aspergers. :coffee:
Says a guy that is American one day, Turk the next, then Macedonian and then a Serb ? :coffee: You should remain American because you have neither a heritage nor an ethnic pride.

poiuytrewq0987
02-22-2012, 10:01 PM
'tis nice to have Civis Retard on my ignore list.

jerney
02-22-2012, 10:02 PM
Then why do you do it yourself ? ;)

I don't support large scaled mixing either (of Dutch with Germans, or Poles or whatever or with people from outside Europe) but there it is: a racially motivated criteria for citizenship (throwing away those with a non-European parent because it happens to suit some racists) is completely un-Dutch and un-European. It wasn't even done in the East Indies (where natives didn't have citizenship but where mixed people DID if their Dutch parent recognised them).



Well. I am just following you along. You may have a German passport because one of your two parents was German. I don't think that your ideas are very much based on German political thought (which is actually what we follow here).

You on the other have been influenced a great deal by American hillbilly racism which has different origins from our kind of political ideas here: we were/are an society with an ethnicity not like a America a collection of confused colonials that don't even know what they are because they are so mixed. The Dutch retained an ethnicity (like the Germans) whereas the Americans are the product of large-scaled mixing with the only thing setting them apart from others the colour of their skin.

:lol::lol:

Alright, whatever you say. I just have one suggestion, stay off the drugs, they're not benefiting you. ;)

The Lawspeaker
02-22-2012, 10:02 PM
'tis nice to have Civis Retard on my ignore list.
Good fuck off dude. :thumb001: Jan zonder land - en zonder volk.
At least I live in my own country and I have one loyalty alone that doesn't need to shift everyday which make things a lot easier for me.

The Lawspeaker
02-22-2012, 10:03 PM
:lol::lol:

Alright, whatever you say. I just have one suggestion, stay off the drugs, they're not benefiting you. ;)
I never use drugs. But I think that you don't even know what you are yourself. Because do you even speak German ? Because you have been here now for years and I have NOT ONCE seen you write in German.

And I don't think that you can, "German" girl.

jerney
02-22-2012, 10:10 PM
I never used drugs. But I think that you don't even know what you are yourself. Because do you even speak German ? Because you have been here now for years and I have NOT ONCE seen you write in German.

My degree in German literature says I do. I can speak German, but it's not perfect and I never claimed it was. I wish I spoke better German, but I don't and I've said this more than once.

Anyway your last ditch argument is the last thing I reply to because you're getting boring and I feel bad arguing with you when your attempts are so pathetic.

Turkophagos
02-22-2012, 10:17 PM
I never use drugs. But I think that you don't even know what you are yourself. Because do you even speak German ? Because you have been here now for years and I have NOT ONCE seen you write in German.

And I don't think that you can, "German" girl.

I think she can, I've seen her. She speaks German every time she calls with her mother.

Europeans are mixing with each other for centuries and they're quite compatible with each other in comparison to Sub-saharan Africans, Asians or Caucasoid Muslims. It's not comparable to mixing with Africans or Asians, end of story.

The Lawspeaker
02-22-2012, 10:19 PM
I think she can, I've seen her. She speaks German every time she calls with her mother.
I have never seen her use it her at all. I wonder why.


Europeans are mixing with each other for centuries and they're quite compatible with each other in comparison to Sub-saharan Africans, Asians or Caucasoid Muslims. It's not comparable to mixing with Africans or Asians, end of story.
I don't think Poles and Dutch are very compatible either. They don't speak each other's language. Have a completely different culture. Let alone Americans with Dutch etc.

It's all akin to race mixing.

The Lawspeaker
02-22-2012, 10:20 PM
Anyway your last ditch argument is the last thing I reply to because you're getting boring and I feel bad arguing with you when your attempts are so pathetic.
Still: I bet that many Germans would consider you and your ideas to be quite alien to them. You would be considered quite alien here apart from a few Nazi's.

Bozkurt_Karabash
02-22-2012, 10:22 PM
All places with 2 significant numbers of 2 populations will have interracial/ethnic relationships. You just can't help it. To avoid it you just need homogeneous ambience.

The Lawspeaker
02-22-2012, 10:24 PM
All places with 2 significant numbers of 2 populations will have interracial/ethnic relationships. You just can't help it. To avoid it you just need homogeneous ambience.
And the only thing that can be done to prevent is to make sure there are no immigrants and or foreigners - or at least very few. But then again our white internationalist friends would still like to claim that there is no problem because all whites are Europeans and the same anyway.

Bollocks.

Joe McCarthy
02-22-2012, 10:26 PM
All places with 2 significant numbers of 2 populations will have interracial/ethnic relationships. You just can't help it. To avoid it you just need homogeneous ambience.

Very true. Your people are proof positive of it. Though in the case of the US we TRIED to keep it from happening for 300 years.

jerney
02-22-2012, 10:28 PM
I have never seen her use it her at all. I wonder why.

I've actually used it here and if you search enough you'll find what you're looking for. Besides, like I already said, I never claimed my German was perfect. I don't like making mistakes and feel embarrassed about making them in front of people who aren't my family.


Still: I bet that many Germans would consider you and your ideas to be quite alien to them. You would be considered quite alien here apart from a few Nazi's.

That I don't consider a half Turk/half German fully German? I don't think so, and if you want to insist I will say you haven't met many Germans. Someone half German/half non-ethnically European has a right to stay in Germany, but they are not "equal" to a German in the sense that they will never truly be German. Most Germans would agree with me here, end of story.

The Lawspeaker
02-22-2012, 10:30 PM
I've actually used it here and if you search enough you'll find what you're looking for. Besides, like I already said, I never claimed my German was perfect. I don't like making mistakes and feel embarrassed about making them in front of people who aren't my family.
That's strange. For a "German" girl I would think you would speak it as your native tongue... evidently not.




That I don't consider a half Turk/half German fully German? I don't think so, and if you want to insist I will say you haven't met many Germans. Someone half German/half non-ethnically European has a right to stay in Germany, but they are not "equal" to a German in the sense that they will never truly be German. Most Germans would agree with me here, end of story.
Hmm and you forget that they will feel exactly the same about someone who is half-German/ half- other European. Including Dutch and they are not too keen on non-Europeans like the Americans either because that's what Americans are: non-European. But Americans are not really well liked all over the place - not just in Germany but here too, in Belgium, France, yes Britain too.. wherever you go.

But that's something you quickly forget.

Siberyak
02-22-2012, 10:33 PM
Very true. Your people are proof positive of it. Though in the case of the US we TRIED to keep it from happening for 300 years.

But it still happened even back then. See Strom Thurmond.

The Lawspeaker
02-22-2012, 10:34 PM
Very true. Your people are proof positive of it. Though in the case of the US we TRIED to keep it from happening for 300 years.
So and that's what we should be doing: immigrants gone, American troops gone: less bloody foreigners. Send the bloody lot of them packing.

jerney
02-22-2012, 10:45 PM
That's strange. For a "German" girl I would think you would speak it as your native tongue... evidently not.

And again, by your logic, yeah I am German. ;)


Hmm and you forget that they will feel exactly the same about someone who is half-German/ half- other European. Including Dutch and they are not too keen on non-Europeans like the Americans either because that's what Americans are: non-European. But Americans are not really well liked all over the place - not just in Germany but here too, in Belgium, France, yes Britain too.. wherever you go.

But that's something you quickly forget.

I never seem to have a problem when I'm in Germany. And Americans are more hated in Germany than Turks :lol:. Man, that's a good one. Many Germans may not be fond of American foreign policy or the American government, but to say that Germans hate American people more than Turks? That's quite a stretch. A half Turk will never feel fully German because the Turkish people are one of the most hated groups in Germany and they will almost always look more Turkish than German and that's what they'll associate with

What's your argument now though anyway? That's I'm just as foreign as a half Turk/half German? Well, fair enough, but unless you want to contradict yourself you need to at least stick to your original argument which was that half Turk/half German was fully German and deserving of a German passport. And again, what you said doesn't refute what I said, that a half Turk will not be considered fully German in Germany, which you claimed was a "radical" view, when in reality it's the more commonly held belief.

The Lawspeaker
02-22-2012, 10:53 PM
And again, by your logic, yeah I am German. ;)
By birth you have legally acquired it, yes. That's the fact.




I never seem to have a problem when I'm in Germany. And Americans are more hated in Germany than Turks :lol:. Man, that's a good one. Many Germans may not be fond of American foreign policy or the American government, but to say that Germans hate American people more than Turks? That's quite a stretch. A half Turk will never feel fully German because the Turkish people are one of the most hated groups in Germany and they will almost always look more Turkish than German and that's what they'll associate with
They are not hated like the Turks (they have the special hatred for them as we have here) but I guess that being too close with Americans (particularly soldiers) was not particularly encouraged back in the day as they were indeed the occupying power. And I am putting that mildly - but I guess since that the Germans now even allow in Turks and whatnot that a few Americans can't hurt. They have gone soft.

Here fraternisation with Germans was also somewhat discouraged back in 1940 - 1945. And the Americans were doing the same thing in Germany: occupying it together with the Brits, French and Soviets - and since they are still there: you could consider it an occupation.


What's your argument now though anyway? That's I'm just as foreign as a half Turk/half German? Well, fair enough, but unless you want to contradict yourself you need to at least stick to your original argument which was that half Turk/half German was fully German and deserving of a German passport. And again, what you said doesn't refute what I said, that a half Turk will not be considered fully German in Germany, which you claimed was a "radical" view, when in reality it's the more commonly held belief.

You're about as foreign as one and as German as one yes. The only thing tying you to Germany is your German family and German passport as for the ideology it is pretty mainstream: in the United States.

Joe McCarthy
02-22-2012, 11:08 PM
But it still happened even back then. See Strom Thurmond.

Yes, it happened, and he had to hide it until he died. Revealing it would have destroyed him in the white supremacist South.

Joe McCarthy
02-22-2012, 11:09 PM
So and that's what we should be doing: immigrants gone, American troops gone: less bloody foreigners. Send the bloody lot of them packing.

You might add not boinking Indos to that laundry list. ;)

StonyArabia
02-22-2012, 11:15 PM
All places with 2 significant numbers of 2 populations will have interracial/ethnic relationships. You just can't help it. To avoid it you just need homogeneous ambience.

Indeed my parents met and married in the U.S. They also come from very different stock of people's and cultures. Their honey moon was also in California, and then I was born in Colorado.

The Lawspeaker
02-22-2012, 11:23 PM
You might add not boinking Indos to that laundry list. ;)
They are, unlike you, not exactly foreigners. They have Dutch blood. But if they would like to go to Indonesia (and the Indonesian government would permit it) then their transfer could be arranged as well but they are the least of all concerns.

Joe McCarthy
02-22-2012, 11:23 PM
The Emmet Till case is indicative of how back in the day we didn't mess around:


In 1955, Emmett was stocky, muscular, weighing about 150 pounds (68 kg), and stood 5 feet 4 inches (1.63 m). Despite his age at 14 years old, he looked like an adult.[12] Mamie Till Bradley's uncle, 64-year-old Mose Wright, visited them in Chicago during the summer and told Emmett stories about living in the Mississippi Delta. Emmett wanted to see for himself. Bradley was ready for a vacation and planned to take Emmett with her, but after he begged her to visit Wright, she relented. Wright planned to accompany Till with a cousin, Wheeler Parker, and another, Curtis Jones, would join them soon. Wright was a sharecropper and part-time minister who was often called "Preacher".[13] He lived in Money, Mississippi, another small town in the Delta that consisted of three stores, a school, a post office, a cotton gin, and a couple hundred residents, 8 miles (13 km) north of Greenwood. Before his departure for the Delta, Till's mother cautioned him that Chicago and Mississippi were two different worlds and he should know how to behave in front of whites in the South.[14] He assured her he understood.[15]

Since 1882, when statistics on lynchings began to be collected, more than 500 African-Americans had been killed by extrajudicial violence in Mississippi alone.[16] The majority of the incidents took place between 1876 and 1930; though far less common by the mid-1950s, these racially motivated murders still occurred. Throughout the South a severely divided racial caste system was predicated upon avoiding interracial relationships. Although this occurred, particularly among white men and black women, the protection of white women from black men was the hinge upon which the caste system functioned, and although it rarely happened, even the suggestion of sexual contact between black men and white women carried the most severe penalties for black men. A resurgence of the enforcement of these mores was evident following World War II.[17] Racial tensions were furthermore on the rise after the United States Supreme Court's 1954 decision in Brown v. Board of Education to end segregation in public education. Many segregationists viewed the ruling as an avenue to allow interracial marriage. The reaction among whites in the South was to constrain blacks forcefully from any semblance of social equality.[18] A week before Till arrived, a black man named Lamar Smith was shot in front of the county courthouse in Brookhaven for political organizing. Three men were arrested, but were acquitted.[19]

[edit] Provoking incident
The remains of Bryant's Grocery and Meat Market as it appeared in 2009Till arrived on August 21, 1955. On August 24, he and cousin Curtis Jones skipped church where Wright was preaching, joining some local boys as they went to Bryant's Grocery and Meat Market to buy candy. The teenagers were children of sharecroppers and had been picking cotton all day. The market was owned by a white couple, 24-year-old Roy Bryant and his wife Carolyn, and mostly catered to the local sharecropper population. Carolyn was alone in the store that day; her sister-in-law was in the rear of the store watching children. Jones left Till with the other boys while Jones played checkers across the street. According to Jones, the other boys reported that Till had a photograph of an integrated class at the school he attended in Chicago,[note 1] and Till bragged to the boys that the white children in the picture were his friends. He pointed to a white girl in the picture, or referred to a picture of a white girl that had come with his new wallet,[20] and stated that she was his girlfriend. One or more of the local boys dared Till to speak to 21-year-old Carolyn Bryant.[21]

The facts of what transpired in the store are still disputed, but according to several versions, Till may have wolf-whistled at Bryant.[22] A newspaper account following his disappearance stated that Till sometimes whistled to alleviate his stuttering.[23] His speech was sometimes unclear; his mother claimed he had particular difficulty with pronouncing "b" sounds, and may have whistled to overcome problems asking for bubble gum.[24] Other stories claim Till may have grabbed Carolyn Bryant's hand and asked her for a date, or said "Bye, baby" as he left the store,[12] or "You needn't be afraid of me, baby, I've been with white women before".[25] Carolyn Bryant later asserted that Till had grabbed her at the waist and asked her for a date. She said the young man also used "unprintable" words.[26]

In any event, Carolyn Bryant was so alarmed she ran outside to a car to retrieve a pistol from under the seat. Upon seeing her do this, the teenagers left immediately.[25] One of the other boys ran across the street to tell Curtis Jones what happened. When the older man, with whom Jones was playing checkers, heard the story, he urged the boys to leave quickly, fearing violence. Carolyn Bryant told others of the events at the store, and the story spread quickly. Jones and Till declined to tell Mose Wright, fearing they would get in trouble.[27] Till expressed a desire to return home to Chicago. Roy Bryant was on an extended trip hauling shrimp to Texas and did not return home until August 27.[28]

When Roy Bryant was told of what had transpired, he aggressively questioned several young black men who entered the store. That evening, Bryant, with a black man named J. W. Washington, approached a young black man walking along a road. Bryant ordered Washington to seize the young man, put him in the back of his pickup truck, and took him to be identified by an as-yet unnamed companion of Carolyn's who had witnessed the episode with Till. Friends or parents vouched for the young men in Bryant's store, and Carolyn's companion denied that the young man Bryant and Washington seized was the one who had accosted her. Somehow, however, Bryant learned that the young man who had done it was from Chicago and was staying with Mose Wright.[note 2] Several witnesses overheard Bryant and his 36-year-old half-brother John William "J. W." Milam discussing taking Till from his house.[29]

In the early morning hours—between 2:00 and 3:30—on Sunday, August 28, 1955, Roy Bryant, Milam, and another man (who may have been black) drove to Mose Wright's house. Milam was armed with a pistol and a flashlight. He asked Wright if he had three boys in the house from Chicago. Till shared a bed with another cousin; there were eight people in the small two-bedroom cabin. Milam asked Wright to take them to "the nigger who did the talking". When they asked Till if it was he, he replied, "Yeah", for which they threatened to shoot him and told him to get dressed.[12][30] The men threatened to kill Wright if he reported what he had seen. Till's great-aunt offered the men money, but they did not respond. They put Till in the back of a pickup truck and drove to a barn at the Clint Shurden Plantation in Drew. Till was pistol-whipped and placed in the bed of the pickup truck again and covered with a tarpaulin. Throughout the course of the night, Bryant, Milam, and witnesses recall them being in several locations with Till. According to some witnesses, they took Till to a shed behind Milam's home in the nearby town of Glendora where they beat him again and tried to decide what to do. Witnesses recall between two and four white men and two and four black men who were either in or surrounding the pickup truck where Till was seated. Others passed by Milam's shed to the sounds of someone being beaten. Accounts differ as to when Till was shot; either in Milam's shed or by the Tallahatchie River. He was driven to Bryant's store where several people noticed blood pooling in the truck bed. Bryant explained he killed a deer, and in one instance showed the body to a black man who questioned him, saying "that's what happens to smart niggers".[31]

Bryant and Milam stated that their intention was to beat Till and throw him off an embankment into the river to frighten him. They told Huie that while they were beating Till, however, he called them bastards, declared he was as good as they, and had in the past had sexual encounters with white women. They then put Till in the back of their truck, drove to a cotton gin to take a 70-pound (32 kg) fan—the only time they admitted to being worried, thinking that by this time in early daylight they would be spotted and accused of stealing—and drove for several miles along the river looking for a place to dispose of Till. They shot him by the river and weighted his body with the fan



Well, what else could we do? He was hopeless. I'm no bully; I never hurt a nigger in my life. I like niggers—in their place—I know how to work 'em. But I just decided it was time a few people got put on notice. As long as I live and can do anything about it, niggers are gonna stay in their place. Niggers ain't gonna vote where I live. If they did, they'd control the government. They ain't gonna go to school with my kids. And when a nigger gets close to mentioning sex with a white woman, he's tired o' livin'. I'm likely to kill him. Me and my folks fought for this country, and we got some rights. I stood there in that shed and listened to that nigger throw that poison at me, and I just made up my mind. 'Chicago boy,' I said, 'I'm tired of 'em sending your kind down here to stir up trouble. Goddam you, I'm going to make an example of you—just so everybody can know how me and my folks stand.'

J. W. Milam, Look magazine, 1956

The Lawspeaker
02-22-2012, 11:25 PM
Europeans didn't lynch people. But then again we had no slaves here and we had jus sanguinis as opposed to jus soli. If anything Americans do mess around an awful lot more then we do.

You know what nationality a child of two wetbacks that was born in California has, no ? ;) Look who shouldn't be talking...

StonyArabia
02-22-2012, 11:28 PM
Emitt till was and is a kid, what happened to him is just wrong, and certainly gloating about lynching people is not really helpful to the cause of nationalism or preservation.

Joe McCarthy
02-22-2012, 11:34 PM
Emitt till was and is a kid, what happened to him is just wrong, and certainly gloating about lynching people is not really helpful to the cause of nationalism or preservation.

Lynching niggers is as American as apple pie.

The Lawspeaker
02-22-2012, 11:37 PM
Lynching niggers is as American as apple pie.
And consequently not European.

Joe McCarthy
02-22-2012, 11:39 PM
Europeans didn't lynch people. But then again we had no slaves here and we had jus sanguinis as opposed to jus soli. If anything Americans do mess around an awful lot more then we do.

You know what nationality a child of two wetbacks that was born in California has, no ? ;) Look who shouldn't be talking...

What you're referring to refers to a perverted interpretation of the 14th Amendment by SCOTUS. It didn't exist until rather recently. There is also a move to end birthright citizenship based on that court ruling.

Joe McCarthy
02-22-2012, 11:40 PM
And consequently not European.

No, your style is more to go after a few irrelevant kikes for 'poisoning wells'. At least our extra-judicial actions had a legitimate end in mind.

StonyArabia
02-22-2012, 11:41 PM
Lynching niggers is as American as apple pie.

I don't know but it's just plain sick to be honest with you, especially when it's done to kids not matter what they are. If I was American I would be ashamed of it and not try to look at it.


And consequently not European.

They also did not happen in Canada, thankfully!

The Lawspeaker
02-22-2012, 11:41 PM
What you're referring to refers to a perverted interpretation of the 14th Amendment by SCOTUS. It didn't exist until rather recently. There is also a move to end birthright citizenship based on that court ruling.
Look who still shouldn't be talking. It's even enshrined in your constitution. But then again I hope to God that no one will ever interpret art.1 of the Dutch constitution that way but we are already covered for that in both the constitution and the law.


Article 1
All persons in the Netherlands shall be treated equally in equal circumstances. Discrimination on the grounds of religion, belief, political opinion, race or sex or on other grounds whatsoever shall not be permitted.
(I think we should change that one).


Article 2 [Citizenship]
(1) Dutch nationality shall be regulated by Act of Parliament.
(2) The admission and expulsion of aliens shall be regulated by Act of Parliament.
(3) Extradition may take place only pursuant to a treaty. Further regulations concerning extradition shall be laid down by Act of Parliament.
(4) Everyone shall have the right to leave the country, except in the cases laid down by Act of Parliament.

Joe McCarthy
02-22-2012, 11:44 PM
I don't know but it's just plain sick to be honest with you, especially when it's done to kids not matter what they are. If I was American I would be ashamed of it and not try to look at it.

You say that, but it was necessary to keep niggers in line. The threat of violence did much to prevent miscegenation. When niggers like Till stepped over the line they bore the consequences.

StonyArabia
02-22-2012, 11:50 PM
You say that, but it was necessary to keep niggers in line. The threat of violence did much to prevent miscegenation. When niggers like Till stepped over the line they bore the consequences.

There was laws already in place for that not to occur, but not really they did not since miscengenation did occur albeit in small numbers. My point even if lynching was acceptable, it was rather a disgusting practice, nor should it be endorsed, and this day and age it will not return and remain a speck in history and it does more damage than any justified good which honestly there is none.

Joe McCarthy
02-22-2012, 11:55 PM
There was laws already in place for that not to occur, but not really they did not since miscengenation did occur albeit in small numbers. My point even if lynching was acceptable, it was rather a disgusting practice, nor should it be endorsed, and this day and age it will not return and remain a speck in history and it does more damage than any justified good which honestly there is none.

I would describe it as a necessary evil, and as it happened there weren't that many instances of it. More black kills each other in a few years than died in all of the history of lynching.

The law, though stringent, was not adequate in and of itself. That allowed for too many liasons under cover. The social fact of knowing they could get killed prevented black men from daring to sleep with a white woman.

2Cool
02-23-2012, 12:01 AM
I would describe it as a necessary evil, and as it happened there weren't that many instances of it. More black kills each other in a few years than died in all of the history of lynching.

The law, though stringent, was not adequate in and of itself. That allowed for too many liasons under cover. The social fact of knowing they could get killed prevented black men from daring to sleep with a white woman.

But now a lot of white women seem to be fond of black men. What do you propose? Should we lynch these women?

StonyArabia
02-23-2012, 12:03 AM
I would describe it as a necessary evil, and as it happened there weren't that many instances of it. More black kills each other in a few years than died in all of the history of lynching.

Well at least you describe it as evil. Well people kill more of their own people than of others it's the same pattern everywhere.


The law, though stringent, was not adequate in and of itself. That allowed for too many liasons under cover. The social fact of knowing they could get killed prevented black men from daring to sleep with a white woman.

The laws were tough, but yes even in such type of laws, of two or three groups are living in proxomity to each other mixing will indeed occur usually secretly and sometimes openingly do to a sense of rebellion. However such outcomes were rare most often, probably not existent but rather influenced by hysterical paranoia.

Joe McCarthy
02-23-2012, 12:04 AM
But now a lot of white women seem to be fond of black men. What do you propose? Should we lynch these women?

The uncomfortable fact is that white women were always too fond of black men (albeit not to the extent they are now as society has changed). Knowing that white men and the law would come after them and their black lovers prevented most of them from daring to cross the color line.

I don't propose anything today. Unfortunately, we lost that war in the 1960s.

The Lawspeaker
02-23-2012, 12:04 AM
But now a lot of white women seem to be fond of black men. What do you propose? Should we lynch these women?
What about repatriating the overall majority (keeping only those that have something to contribute) of the African Americans back to Africa and giving the designated target country an X-amount of money per head ?

The government of the target country is happy, the Swiss banks will be happy (as that money will be siphoned off) and the Americans (and Europeans if we would dump our immigrants the same way) would be happy.

Everyone happy.. well except those that have been repatriated (of course) but we can't make everyone happy, now can we ? If not all can be send back: encourage them to migrate to Brazil.

And for those "ooh the expense !!1" - call it an investment in your own country.

2Cool
02-23-2012, 12:10 AM
The uncomfortable fact is that white women were always too fond of black men (albeit not to the extent they are now as society has changed). Knowing that white men and the law would come after them and their blacl lovers prevented most of them from daring to cross the color line.

I don't propose anything today. Unfortunately, we lost that war in the 1960s.

I would say that this fondest came from the fact that black men were made to be taboo. Everybody wants what they can't have and most teenagers feel the need to rebel in some form their parents. It's kind of the same reason why often times women who grow up in very restrictive and religious families end up being the sluttiest chicks when they enter college. It also comes down to straight up curiousness. You can't stop that and lynching people due to this is inhumane.

The Lawspeaker
02-23-2012, 12:11 AM
I would say that this fondest came from the fact that black men were made to be taboo. Everybody wants what they can't have and most teenagers feel the need to rebel in some form their parents. It's kind of the same reason why often times women who grow up in very restrictive and religious families end up being the sluttiest chicks when they enter college. It also comes down to straight up curiousness. You can't stop that and lynching people due to this is inhumane.
Instead take the restrictiveness AND the means to rebel away. Problem solved. Next case, please. :thumb001:

2Cool
02-23-2012, 12:12 AM
What about repatriating the overall majority (keeping only those that have something to contribute) of the African Americans back to Africa and giving the designated target country an X-amount of money per head ?

The government of the target country is happy, the Swiss banks will be happy (as that money will be siphoned off) and the Americans (and Europeans if we would dump our immigrants the same way) would be happy.

Everyone happy.. well except those that have been repatriated (of course) but we can't make everyone happy, now can we ? If not all can be send back: encourage them to migrate to Brazil.

And for those "ooh the expense !!1" - call it an investment in your own country.

At that point why don't you just deport every useless America?

The Lawspeaker
02-23-2012, 12:13 AM
At that point why don't you just deport every useless America?
There are too many of them. Where to you suggest we send them ? ;) Not here: that's for sure.

StonyArabia
02-23-2012, 12:15 AM
There are too many of them. Where to you suggest we send them ? ;) Not here: that's for sure.

To Israel:thumbs up

Joe McCarthy
02-23-2012, 12:16 AM
It also comes down to straight up curiousness. You can't stop that and lynching people due to this is inhumane.

Well, that is demonstrably untrue. We DID stop it. :) Whether lynching was inhumane I suppose is a matter of perspective. As we've subsequently discovered the alternative is this:

http://images.colourbox.com/thumb_COLOURBOX2131466.jpg

The Lawspeaker
02-23-2012, 12:17 AM
To Israel:thumbs up
That's a good one. Then we will take over the U.S. We have 13.5 million ethnic Dutch in need of some land. I am sure we can keep 5 million here and move the rest to the nieuwe overzeese provincie. Nieuw Nederland. Damn. I like the sound of that !

When we blow up New York and rebuild Nieuw Amsterdam as the provisional capital and make me oppergouverneur of the new province I will be most delighted. :thumb001:

StonyArabia
02-23-2012, 12:18 AM
Well, that is demonstrably untrue. We DID stop it. :) Whether lynching was inhumane I suppose is a matter of perspective. As we've subsequently discovered the alternative is this:

http://images.colourbox.com/thumb_COLOURBOX2131466.jpg

What about this:

http://s8.postimage.org/60n67hqb9/Arabgalwhiteguy.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
image hosting jpeg (http://postimage.org/)

2Cool
02-23-2012, 12:23 AM
Well, that is demonstrably untrue. We DID stop it. :) Whether lynching was inhumane I suppose is a matter of perspective. As we've subsequently discovered the alternative is this:

http://images.colourbox.com/thumb_COLOURBOX2131466.jpg

I don't have a problem with that as long as the outcome is this:

http://i.imgur.com/IoSrN.jpg

Joe McCarthy
02-23-2012, 12:32 AM
I don't have a problem with that as long as the outcome is this:

http://i.imgur.com/IoSrN.jpg

I guess we have different priorities.

http://media.salon.com/2000/08/the_politics_of_lynching.jpg

2Cool
02-23-2012, 12:40 AM
I guess we have different priorities.

http://media.salon.com/2000/08/the_politics_of_lynching.jpg

Human beings might discriminate but the penis doesn't.

The Lawspeaker
02-23-2012, 12:43 AM
LOL.. all the remaining Americans (probably only a couple of million apart from the Natives) would get a new passport. A Dutch one - just a bit different. Those that marry Dutch colonists would get a Dutch passport. Those that do not would get marked as "Inlander" or "Inboorling" (basically meaning Native) and of course be subjected to some discrimination: they can't vote they would have to kowtow when they see a Dutch flag until they have been genetically and culturally assimilated. :thumb001::D

The real natives would of course get a Native passport (like this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iroquois_passport)) with Dutch markings so they would be covered under Dutch and their own native laws.

Siberyak
02-23-2012, 12:44 AM
LOL.. all the remaining Americans (probably only a couple of million apart from the Natives) would get a new passport. A Dutch one - just a bit different. Those that marry Dutch colonists would get a Dutch passport. Those that do not would get marked as "Inlander" or "Inboorling" and of course be subjected to some discrimination: they can't vote until they have been genetically and culturally assimilated. :thumb001::D

The real natives would of course get a Native passport with a Dutch marking so they would be covered under Dutch and their own native laws.

If anyone is gonna over run the USA its gonna be latin America :eek:

The Lawspeaker
02-23-2012, 12:47 AM
If anyone is gonna over run the USA its gonna be latin America :eek:
Well we Dutch should. We need land. :D

2Cool
02-23-2012, 12:49 AM
If anyone is gonna over run the USA its gonna be latin America :eek:

It's Mexico's master plan: Emigrate to the US, in ex-Mexican land, then when their population is large enough, reclaim back that land. Absolute vodka had a funny ad about this: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2251/2383371667_df5fc24e2d.jpg

The Lawspeaker
02-23-2012, 12:50 AM
It's Mexico's master plan: Emigrate to the US, in ex-Mexican land, then when their population is large enough, reclaim back that land. Absolute vodka had a funny ad about this: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2251/2383371667_df5fc24e2d.jpg
We'll take the rest ! :wink

AussieScott
02-23-2012, 12:50 AM
You mean traditions that are British and not from New Zealand. Too chickenshit to move on: why are you people not "back home" in Britain if you want to be British ?

There are people with Dutch, German, Scandinavian blood there as well as well as the Maori.

No, we are proud of our old British Empire heritage and our ethnogenesis, at least we were allowed to keep it's rewards out in the open. Unlike the Dutch in Indonesia and and other parts of Africa.

Why would we want to identify being Maori or Aboriginal?

Do you identify with being Sammi, or SA bushmen?

Why do you promote multiracialism, rather then multiculturalism/apartheid, you do know the difference between the two concepts don't you?

I'd take White/European multiculturalism over multiracialism any day.

It seems to me you have an ingrained hate for America and Britain, when at the end of the day it's the same enemy in our mists that caused our demise...and your confusion.

The Lawspeaker
02-23-2012, 12:51 AM
I'd take White/European multiculturalism over multiracialism any day.
.
I take neither: that's the difference between me, European, and you: colonial.

Siberyak
02-23-2012, 12:54 AM
We'll take the rest ! :wink

I can not seriously rule out an internal civil war in the USA in 30 years or so. Or people self segregating into autonomous enclaves. A place like Vermont or Maine feels like a totally different country from the Mexican Bowels of Southern California.

The Lawspeaker
02-23-2012, 12:58 AM
I can not seriously rule out an internal civil war in the USA in 30 years or so. Or people self segregating into autonomous enclaves. A place like Vermont or Maine feels like a totally different country from the Mexican Bowels of Southern California.

Don't worry. Vermont and Maine will then be incorporated into Nieuw Nederland. As the new oppergouverneur I would see to it that they would receive a fair treatment. After all I would need cheap inlanders to work for me on my mansion along the Hudsonrivier.

:wink

Siberyak
02-23-2012, 12:59 AM
Don't worry. Vermont and Maine will then be incorporated into Nieuw Nederland. As the new oppergouverneur I would see to it that they would receive a fair treatment. After all I would need cheap inlanders to work for me on my mansion along the Hudsonrivier.

:wink

You don't wanna live anywhere near the Hudson. :thumb001:

The Lawspeaker
02-23-2012, 01:02 AM
You don't wanna live anywhere near the Hudson. :thumb001:
After we have cleared the place out and send the African-Americans to Africa and the Americans to Israel.. :D

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0d/Apeldoorn_Paleis_het_Loo_B.jpg



I would build myself a humble residence and settle down for a quiet life as the new supreme governor with this as my view.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/07/Catskills_beyond_Hudson.jpg

Siberyak
02-23-2012, 01:03 AM
After we have cleared the place out and send the African-Americans to Africa and the Americans to Israel.. :D

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0d/Apeldoorn_Paleis_het_Loo_B.jpg



I would build myself a humble residence and settle down for a quiet life as the new supreme governor with this as my view.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/07/Catskills_beyond_Hudson.jpg

Well as much as you dislike the USA you can't deny that this country has some very beautiful land :D

The Lawspeaker
02-23-2012, 01:06 AM
Well as much as you dislike the USA you can't deny that this country has some very beautiful land :D
And that's what we want and that's the reason why we would be there. :D Hey bitches... we're back. Now get back to work or we'll go all Dutch East Indies Company on you ! "whip cracks".

Joe McCarthy
02-23-2012, 01:15 AM
And that's what we want and that's the reason why we would be there. :D Hey bitches... we're back. Now get back to work or we'll go all Dutch East Indies Company on you ! "whip cracks".


I think you mean the Dutch West India Company. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_West_India_Company) In any case, you guys have been gone for 338 years.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Westminster_(1674) You'll have a lot of catching up to do...

The Lawspeaker
02-23-2012, 01:25 AM
I actually think that Dutch rule would actually be very beneficial for the not-so useless Americans that remain. Well they would end up marrying Dutch colonists and the Dutch themselves would end up taking over some local ideas (we'd have to.. it's a big country) but mainly Dutch pragmatism would take over: new ideas about education, healthcare, religion, sexuality, economic management, spatial planning, governance, the judiciary would take over.

Think of it: you would finally get snelwegen (plural: interstates) that don't fall apart. Around the more densely populated areas there would be excellent train connections and we would teach you how to actually plan the use of spaces as if you were living in the Netherlands (everything has to be as tight as a soldier's bunk during a general inspection). We would also teach you that sexual education and the use of condoms and the pill ("double Dutch") beats abstinence in preventing teenage pregnancies and that if you want to build up a country you need to work together so there would be a Polder Model (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polder_model) and social corporatism.

And the healthcare problem would be solved once and for all: we should abandon American-style private healthcare anyway as it has made sure that healthcare costs have exploded so we should go back to mutuality funds and the same should go for our little colony. You people would get your healthcare for 90 guilders a month unless you want to opt out and be a stupid idiot.

See: having Dutch overlords would be a blessing for you.. instead of a curse. It's better then the bloody mess that you've made of your country now. :thumb001:

And there is also work for you: no more unemployment. Why ? Since so many Americans have been send back to Africa or send to Israel there are a lot of places that can be blown up.

The Lawspeaker
02-23-2012, 01:26 AM
I think you mean the Dutch West India Company. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_West_India_Company) In any case, you guys have been gone for 338 years.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Westminster_(1674) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Westminster_%281674%29) You'll have a lot of catching up to do...
The West India Company were pussies. That's why I referred to the East Indies Company and the shit they pulled (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banda_Islands#Massacre_of_the_Bandanese) with people that broke their contracts. :thumbs up

Now that I think of it: let's tear down the towns on the Netherlands Antilles and rebuild the architecture in Florida. Blow up most of Miami and rebuild Willemstad there without the Antelleans and make it a sunny destination for Dutch colonists - add whatever other towns and places we can take the buildings from and we would have a nice Southern capital.

Whatever happens to the Antelleans ? We don't care. They are independent and out on their own. We've got ourselves a better and bigger fish and we should do the same thing in Suriname: buy up all the property, break it down piece by piece and move it to the southern part of our colony.

AussieScott
02-23-2012, 02:08 AM
I take neither: that's the difference between me, European, and you: colonial.

I thought I was right. You do not understand the differences between the ideologies, no wonder your argumentation was so confused...Don't worry you will get there one day mate.

The difference between Colonials and Scandinavians is our education, Colonials are by far, less indoctrinated into the Marxist progressive mind set. Quiet saddening really.

Long live the hillbilly Bogan rednecks:cool:, and down with the Marxist progressive wardens of the future Police states. :thumb001::wink:):D

Aemma
02-23-2012, 02:31 AM
I don't have a problem with that as long as the outcome is this:

http://i.imgur.com/IoSrN.jpg



Ahh yes. As always...as long as a man can get a hard on then it all makes it worthwhile, doesn't it? :rolleyes2:

Aemma
02-23-2012, 02:34 AM
Human beings might discriminate but the penis doesn't.

No wonder the world is in the mess it is!

Dicks run amok! :eek:

2Cool
02-23-2012, 02:35 AM
Ahh yes. As always...as long as a man can get a hard on then it all makes it worthwhile, doesn't it? :rolleyes2:

Of course. If you are a beautiful, educated woman than it's all good.I'm not going to deprive myself of some woman simply because she has a different haplogroup than me.

Jon Snow
02-23-2012, 02:39 AM
Of course. If you are a beautiful, educated woman than it's all good.I'm not going to deprive myself of some woman simply because she has a different haplogroup than me.

:icon_no:

The Lawspeaker
02-23-2012, 02:41 AM
The difference between Colonials and Scandinavians is our education, Colonials are by far, less indoctrinated into the Marxist progressive mind set. Quiet saddening really.

It's actually much older then colonial racism and dating back at 3000 years. It's called tribalism, ethnic based societies as opposed to superficially racially based and has nothing to do with Marxism.

It's even quite the opposite: racially based society are inherently internationalist because they force everyone into a single mould "white" or "not white".

Ours is easier: "Dutch" or "foreign". And in your case: you're foreign.

Aemma
02-23-2012, 02:43 AM
Of course. If you are a beautiful, educated woman than it's all good.I'm not going to deprive myself of some woman simply because she has a different haplogroup than me.

Oh and I'm sure womankind would be devastated if you deprived them of 2Cool as well. ;) :D

AussieScott
02-23-2012, 02:45 AM
No wonder the world is in the mess it is!

Dicks run amok! :eek:

For every dick running a mud muck, there is a fanny tingling in reciprocation of advancement.

Aemma
02-23-2012, 02:50 AM
For every dick running a mud muck, there is a fanny tingling in reciprocation of advancement.

Touché AussieScott. Sex (and money) are about the only two things that *do* make the world go 'round. Sadly....

Mosov
02-23-2012, 02:51 AM
Don't worry. Vermont and Maine will then be incorporated into Nieuw Nederland. As the new oppergouverneur I would see to it that they would receive a fair treatment. After all I would need cheap inlanders to work for me on my mansion along the Hudsonrivier.

:wink

To my knowledge New York State had government documents written in Dutch and English for a long time.

The Lawspeaker
02-23-2012, 02:55 AM
To my knowledge New York State had government documents written in Dutch and English for a long time.
I have heard about that as well. All the more reason why New York State should become the administrative centre of the colony for the time being. :thumb001:

Joe McCarthy
02-23-2012, 02:57 AM
A few areas in the former Dutch colony remained essentially Dutch ethnically for a couple of centuries after the Treaty of Westminister.

The Lawspeaker
02-23-2012, 02:59 AM
A few areas in the former Dutch colony remained essentially Dutch ethnically for a couple of centuries after the Treaty of Westminister.

And then they should be again. Just think of the mess it will give just to tear down most of New York and remediate the soil....

Mosov
02-23-2012, 03:01 AM
I have heard about that as well. All the more reason why New York State should become the administrative centre of the colony for the time being. :thumb001:

I wonder how history would have changed if Holland's New York colonies weren't taken by the British. Probably, the Dutch New York area would be like Quebec in Canada.

The Lawspeaker
02-23-2012, 03:04 AM
I wonder how history would have changed if Holland's New York colonies weren't taken by the British. Probably, the Dutch New York area would be like Quebec in Canada.
Probably.. and New York would probably look very differently indeed. Maybe a bit like Amsterdam with a lot of Dutch-speaking towns and cities around it. A kind of Randstad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randstad) instead of the clump of ghettoes there are today.

The oldest part of Nieuw Amsterdam seems to have looked like this:


http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3356/3409147774_e9985db5c9_o.jpg

I guess it is preferable above what it is today...

Joe McCarthy
02-23-2012, 03:07 AM
This should be read. Not very long and informative:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_American

There are over 5 million Americans of Dutch ancestry which is 1.6% of the US population. I'm one of them.

The Lawspeaker
02-23-2012, 03:08 AM
This should be read. Not very long and informative:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_American

There are over 5 million Americans of Dutch ancestry which is 1.6% of the US population. I'm one of them.
I don't think you can be called Dutch in any way, shape or form.

Mercury
02-23-2012, 03:09 AM
I don't think you can be called Dutch in any way, shape or form.

Some Dutch-Americans are more Dutch than Dutchmen.

The Lawspeaker
02-23-2012, 03:11 AM
Some Dutch-Americans are more Dutch than Dutchmen.
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lifi6eAOtH1qdrgj7.jpg

Donder toch op, man !

Mosov
02-23-2012, 03:12 AM
Probably.. and New York would probably look very differently indeed. Maybe a bit like Amsterdam with a lot of Dutch-speaking towns and cities around it. A kind of Randstad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randstad) instead of the clump of ghettoes there are today.

The oldest part of Nieuw Amsterdam seems to have looked like this:


http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3356/3409147774_e9985db5c9_o.jpg

I guess it is preferable above what it is today...

This was pretty interesting. Jersey Dutch was spoken in the New Jersey Province in the Americas:



An example of Jersey Dutch:
En kääd'l had twî jongers; de êne blêv täus;
de andere xong vôrt f'n häus f'r en stat.
Hai waz nît tevrêde täus en dârkîs tû râkni arm.
Hai dogti ôm dat täus en z'n vâders pläk.
Tû zaide: äk zal na häus xâne. Main vâder hät plänti.

In standard modern Dutch:
Een man had twee jongens; de ene bleef thuis;
de andere ging voort van huis voor een vermogen.
Hij was niet tevreden thuis en hij werd daardoor arm.
Hij dacht aan thuis en zijn vaders plaats.
Toen zei hij: ik zal naar huis gaan. Mijn vader heeft voldoende.

In English:
A man had two sons. The one stayed at home;
the other went abroad from home to make his fortune.
He was not content at home and therefore he became poor.
He thought about home and his father's place.
Then said: I shall go home. My father has plenty.

Aemma
02-23-2012, 03:12 AM
I don't think you can be called Dutch in any way, shape or form.

Aww Civis, c'mon. In fairness, Joe said "Dutch American." He never said he was Dutch!

The Lawspeaker
02-23-2012, 03:12 AM
This was pretty interesting. Jersey Dutch was spoken in the New Jersey Province in the Americas:
I can read that Jersey Dutch piece without a problem. It's just a very weird form of Dutch with a very weird spelling and an English word. I wonder what it would have sound like.

The Lawspeaker
02-23-2012, 03:13 AM
Aww Civis, c'mon. In fairness, Joe said "Dutch American." He never said he was Dutch!
In using Dutch he denotes kinship to my country, which in all fairness, he of course hasn't.

Siberyak
02-23-2012, 03:14 AM
What about this guy? Is he Dutch descended? http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/2582/kyle-vanden-bosch