View Full Version : Who rules, or how we are ruled?
04-02-2009, 01:39 AM
Which is the most important question?
You will find evidence in Discipline and Punish by Michel Foucault. He starts off with 2 contrasting cases:
04-02-2009, 02:27 AM
What stuck out to me in the reading was the very end where a difference seemed to be drawn out between the punishment of the body and the punishment of the mind.
Which is worse? To have your mind conquered but not your mind?...as in the first example.
Or to have your mind conquered. Everything you do is controlled. As is explained in the second example.
The first example seemed better to me in a heroic sort of way (the man retained his manliness), but it also seemed far more painful and gruesome. I want to say I would rather have the first sort of punishment, but there is certainly the pull to not want to be tortured in such a way.
I keep going in circles, but that seems to be the question here.
PS. Looking back, "How we are ruled" seems like the better question, but it still doesn't settle my question of which way I would rather be ruled (and punished if need be) as pertains to the two versions in the reading.
04-02-2009, 04:29 AM
I don't think it can be looked at as an either/or type of question. Following Spengler's lead, I think we can say that in any given region of sufficient societal development, there exist two cultural currents. The folkish current embodied in the peasant folk, the common man, is more or less constant and is much less affected by the rise and fall of high society (at least, this was the case in the past). This other current, that of the aristocracy, that we commonly identify as high culture did not, in the past, have much to do with most people. However, since the barriers between the two sides of the coin have been disappearing throughout the last hundred years or so, it's hard to say now if either current is dominant.
04-02-2009, 10:56 AM
Definitely who rules.
The procedure described in the article you posted is pretty harsh, but my primary goal is to stay outside of the penal system entirely, which means that 'who rules' should be me and people like me. The harsh treatment I might even agree with for certain people, and as long as there's no chance of it happening to me I'm ok.
04-02-2009, 11:15 AM
Who "rules" us is supremely unimportant. In fact it's essential that it's unimportant. Our rulers (although I'd prefer the term "decision-makers") are our servants, not the other way around. We, the people, are their boss.
I didn't read the article by M. F*ck-all, but I do intend to take a look at it later.
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