Should we - the Protestants - revert to Catholicism?

[HungAryan]

The Protestant Reformation started because the Roman Catholic Church was growing corrupt in the 16th century.
In the 16th century, indulgences were sold to peasants for money. The priests promised that if the peasants buy them, their souls will go to heaven after they die.
Thus, the Vatican was openly interfering in the business of the different kingdoms and empires.
Not to mention, that there is celibacy in Roman Catholicism, something we - the Protestants - are heavily against.

The Protestant Reformers in the 16th century didn't want to create a new Church.
They only wanted to end the corruption in the Catholic Church.
Since then, the Roman Catholic Church was "modernized". It is not as corrupt as it used to be.
However, Clerical Celibacy still remains, thus, recently there have been Catholic priests molesting children.

So, what do we say?

[Arrow Cross]

Since then, the Roman Catholic Church was "modernized". It is not as corrupt as it used to be.
It is not Christian, as it used to be.

A pathetic shadow of its former self, there was more evangelical purity and zeal in Renaissance Catholicism than today, with the popes themselves kissing the Quran and the Wailing Wall, and praying in Muslim mosques.

[HungAryan]

It is not Christian, as it used to be.

Indeed. The Jews poisoned it.


A pathetic shadow of its former self, there was more evangelical purity and zeal in Renaissance Catholicism than today, with the popes themselves kissing the Quran and the Wailing Wall, and praying in Muslim mosques.

Needless to say, all current leaders in Europe are traitors, including the leader of the Vatican - the Pope.
Every single European government is filled by traitors.
It's so natural and to me that the traitors have to be replaced, that I barely even mention it.

The traitors have to be replaced - including the Pope.

[Wulfhere]

Should Christians revert to Paganism? Yes, if only they weren't brainwashed by some Middle Eastern cult.

[HungAryan]

Should Christians revert to Paganism? Yes, if only they weren't brainwashed by some Middle Eastern cult.


http://www.lowbird.com/data/images/2009/03/facepalm.jpg

Paganism is a piece of shit and lies.
Christianity is the only true religion.

Should Neo-Pagans revert to Christianity? Yes, if only they weren't be so desperate to be "cool" and stand out of the crowd.

I pity everyone who considers himself a pagan.
Seriously? Multiple gods? Come on...

A multitude of rulers is not a good thing. Let there be one ruler, one king.

[Contra Mundum]

Wish there was a "who cares" option for us agnostics.

[Libertas]

No No.
It'll only encourage the Vatican to think it has a future.

[Sally]

Should Protestants revert to Catholicism? :confused: If an individual Protestant desires to revert, sure. No one should be forced against his or her will. Man's response to God in faith must be free!

No one should be driven by coercion, and there shouldn't be an encroachment on the rightful freedom of the person. The principle of religious freedom in society should be carefully observed, I think.

[Hurrem sultana]

one thing i noticed is that most protestant countries are very secular and most people are agnostic or atheist,while the catholic countries are more religious and conservative

any reason for that?

[Unurautare]

Protestants(full range of the word) should stop going around and try to convert other people who don't share their views. I've seen cases in Romania and I don't like it.

[HungAryan]

Protestants(full range of the word) should stop going around and try to convert other people who don't share their views. I've seen cases in Romania and I don't like it.

Are those Protestants Hungarians, or Romanian converts?

[Unurautare]

Are those Protestants Hungarians, or Romanian converts?

I'm only talking about cases I know personally,so Orthodox believers that are being lured by Protestants(sometimes even with money or objects,or so religion teachers at school used to tell me - but I've never seen this case myself).

[HungAryan]

I'm only talking about cases I know personally,so Orthodox believers that are being lured by Protestants(sometimes even with money or objects,or so religion teachers at school used to tell me - but I've never seen this case myself).

I've never heard about that.
I didn't even know there were Protestants outside Transylvania in Romania.

[tschort]

i thought we got over religion in the late 90s wtf...

if you feel like worshiping, worship me brother chimp

[HungAryan]

i thought we got over religion in the late 90s wtf...

if you feel like worshiping, worship me brother chimp

This discussion is strictly Christian-only.
Non-Christians like you, Wulfhere and leibowitz must stay out of this.

[Wulfhere]

http://www.lowbird.com/data/images/2009/03/facepalm.jpg

Paganism is a piece of shit and lies.
Christianity is the only true religion.

Should Neo-Pagans revert to Christianity? Yes, if only they weren't be so desperate to be "cool" and stand out of the crowd.

I pity everyone who considers himself a pagan.
Seriously? Multiple gods? Come on...

A multitude of rulers is not a good thing. Let there be one ruler, one king.

Paganism has nothing to do with trying to stand out from the crowd, but everything to do with feeling a connection with the earth. I'm sorry to have to tell you that it's Christianity that's the pack of lies.

[HungAryan]

Paganism has nothing to do with trying to stand out from the crowd

Bullshit.
True Pagans died out 1600 years ago in Italy, France, Greece and Spain, 1300 years ago in England, 900 years ago in Scandinavia, and 600 yeras ago in Lithuania.
You are a neo-Pagan.
You can NOT trace back your ancestry more than 1300 years.
All your recorded ancestors are Christian. Your grandparents, your great-grandparents, etc.

Neo-Paganism is simply about being an attention whore.


but everything to do with feeling a connection with the earth.

Bullshit.
-Paganism = Polytheism = Worshipping multiple gods
-Baha'i Faith, Christianity, Druzism, Islam, Judaism, Samaritanism, Sikhism, and Zoroastrianism = Monotheistic religions = Worshipping only one God

What does worshipping multiple gods has to do with "feeling a connection with the earth" ? NOTHING!
Thus, this "feeling a connection with the earth" shit makes you sound like a hippie. Hippies suck.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_l1OrzLz2cVM/SwMCij-udII/AAAAAAAABoY/MFthYw_jYRM/s320/_attachments_seattle_david2_hippie.JPG


I'm sorry to have to tell you that it's Christianity that's the pack of lies.

Bullshit.
And even if what you're saying was true, Paganism still has much more fairy tales.
Even Islam has a more realistic and believable mythology than Paganism :rolleyes:

[Wulfhere]

Bullshit.
True Pagans died out 1600 years ago in Italy, France, Greece and Spain, 1300 years ago in England, 900 years ago in Scandinavia, and 600 yeras ago in Lithuania.
You are a neo-Pagan.
You can NOT trace back your ancestry more than 1300 years.
All your recorded ancestors are Christian. Your grandparents, your great-grandparents, etc.

Neo-Paganism is simply about being an attention whore.



Bullshit.
-Paganism = Polytheism = Worshipping multiple gods
-Baha'i Faith, Christianity, Druzism, Islam, Judaism, Samaritanism, Sikhism, and Zoroastrianism = Monotheistic religions = Worshipping only one God

What does worshipping multiple gods has to do with "feeling a connection with the earth" ? NOTHING!
Thus, this "feeling a connection with the earth" shit makes you sound like a hippie. Hippies suck.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_l1OrzLz2cVM/SwMCij-udII/AAAAAAAABoY/MFthYw_jYRM/s320/_attachments_seattle_david2_hippie.JPG



Bullshit.
And even if what you're saying was true, Paganism still has much more fairy tales.
Even Islam has a more realistic and believable mythology than Paganism :rolleyes:

With that last point you made, about Islam, you have proven why Christianity is so incompatible with European civilisation. Monotheism is the religion of the desert, for people who don't like thinking for themselves. It is the religion of rigid laws and suppression. It is evil.

[Unurautare]

It is evil.

I hope you don't mind me asking: Are you a wiccan? :coffee:

[HungAryan]

With that last point you made, about Islam, you have proven why Christianity is so incompatible with European civilisation. Monotheism is the religion of the desert, for people who don't like thinking for themselves. It is the religion of rigid laws and suppression. It is evil.

Bullshit.
Monotheism is the truth.
There is only ONE God.
Polytheism is childish.

Thus, he Indo-Aryan Persians traditionally (before Islam) followed Zoroastrianism, another Monotheistic religion. It was a Persian-only religion, and it didn't accept converts.
What do you say about that?

[Wulfhere]

I hope you don't mind me asking: Are you a wiccan? :coffee:

No. I'm a Heathen.

[Wulfhere]

Bullshit.
Monotheism is the truth.
There is only ONE God.
Polytheism is childish.

Thus, he Indo-Aryan Persians traditionally (before Islam) followed Zoroastrianism, another Monotheistic religion. It was a Persian-only religion, and it didn't accept converts.
What do you say about that?

You see, that's what monotheists do. They proclaim to have the TRUTH.

What do I say about Zoroastrianism not accepting converts? Nothing, because I don't give a shit. It's actually a dualist religion rather than strictly monotheist though, since the god of evil is given equal power, unlike in Xianity where the god of evil is subordinate.

[HungAryan]

No. I'm a Heathen.

You mean a neo-Heathen, don't you?
Real Heathens died out 1000 years ago.
Stop being an attention whore.


You see, that's what monotheists do. They proclaim to have the TRUTH.

Multiple gods make no sense.
One God is much more logical.


What do I say about Zoroastrianism not accepting converts? Nothing, because I don't give a shit. It's actually a dualist religion rather than strictly monotheist though, since the god of evil is given equal power, unlike in Xianity where the god of evil is subordinate.

Satan/Lucifer is not a god. He is the Archdevil.
Lucifer was originally an angel - the most handsome of all, according to the Bible - but he rebelled against God, and was banished from Heaven. He and the other renegade Angels became the Demons or Devils, or whatever you call them. Lucifer became the Archdevil or Archdemon, or whatever you call that.
He isn't god of anything.

God is the only god.

[Wulfhere]

You mean a neo-Heathen, don't you?
Real Heathens died out 1000 years ago.
Stop being an attention whore.



Multiple gods make no sense.
One God is much more logical.



Satan/Lucifer is not a god. He is the Archdevil.
Lucifer was originally an angel - the most handsome of all, according to the Bible - but he rebelled against God, and was banished from Heaven. He and the other renegade Angels became the Demons or Devils, or whatever you call them. Lucifer became the Archdevil or Archdemon, or whatever you call that.
He isn't god of anything.

God is the only god.

No, they didn't. Heathenism survived. I could tell you exactly where and amongst whom, too, if you were the slightest bit interested.

What's the difference between angels and gods? I don't mean your definition of "god", but the actual English word - which predates Xianity.

[Unurautare]

No. I'm a Heathen.

Close enough. :)
Regarding your talk: Christianity in Europe has an European character,it's not like the original jewish cult. As a former Orthodox I consider that religion fits in with European character because it requires very high self control and discipline,but also selfless sacrifice(you won't get anything in return,at best just a spiritual accomplishment) and unlike what Catholics did in the West my people were never forced into it or "officially converted" by a king. The only drawback I can see in it today is that a lot of people perceive it as having to be cuddly and not harsh when it comes to real life situations. That being said I see religions are more of a "way of thinking/perceiving the world".

[HungAryan]

No, they didn't. Heathenism survived. I could tell you exactly where and amongst whom, too, if you were the slightest bit interested.

Allright... I'm all ears.
I bet I'll be hearing some falsified history anyway, but let's hear the story anyway.


What's the difference between angels and gods? I don't mean your definition of "god", but the actual English word - which predates Xianity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God

God is the English name given to a singular being in theistic and deistic religions (and other belief systems) who is either the sole deity in monotheism, or a single deity in polytheism.
God is most often conceived of as the supernatural creator and overseer of the universe. Theologians have ascribed a variety of attributes to the many different conceptions of God. The most common among these include omniscience (infinite knowledge), omnipotence (unlimited power), omnipresence (present everywhere), omnibenevolence (perfect goodness), divine simplicity, and eternal and necessary existence.
God has also been conceived as being incorporeal (immaterial), a personal being, the source of all moral obligation, and the "greatest conceivable existent". These attributes were all supported to varying degrees by the early Jewish, Christian and Muslim theologian philosophers, including Maimonides, Augustine of Hippo, and Al-Ghazali, respectively. Many notable medieval philosophers and modern philosophers have developed arguments for and against the existence of God.

The earliest written form of the Germanic word god comes from the 6th century Christian Codex Argenteus. The English word itself is derived from the Proto-Germanic * ǥuđan. Most linguists agree that the reconstructed Proto-Indo-European form * ǵhu-tó-m was based on the root * ǵhau(ə)-, which meant either "to call" or "to invoke". The Germanic words for god were originally neuter—applying to both genders—but during the process of the Christianization of the Germanic peoples from their indigenous Germanic paganism, the word became a masculine syntactic form.
In the English language, the capitalized form of God continues to represent a distinction between monotheistic "God" and "gods" in polytheism. The English word God and its counterparts in other languages are normally used for any and all conceptions and, in spite of significant differences between religions, the term "God" remains an English translation common to all.. The same holds for Hebrew El, but in Judaism, God is also given a proper name, the tetragrammaton (written YHWH), in origin the name of a Edomite or Midianite deity, Yahweh. In many translations of the Bible, when the word "LORD" is in all capitals, it signifies that the word represents the tetragrammaton. Allāh (Arabic: الله‎ allāh) is the Arabic term with no plural or gender used by Muslims and Arabic speaking Christians and Jews meaning "The God" (with a capital G), while "ʾilāh" (Arabic: إله‎ ellāh) is the term used for a deity or a god in general. God may also be given a proper name in monotheistic currents of Hinduism which emphasize the personal nature of God, with early references to his name as Krishna-Vasudeva in Bhagavata or later Vishnu and Hari
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deity

A deity is a recognized preternatural or supernatural immortal being, who may be thought of as holy, divine, or sacred, held in high regard, and respected by believers.
Deities are depicted in a variety of forms, but are also frequently expressed as having human form. Some faiths and traditions consider it blasphemous to imagine or depict the deity as having any concrete form. They are usually immortal, and are commonly assumed to have personalities and to possess consciousness, intellects, desires, and emotions similar to those of humans. Such natural phenomena as lightning, floods, storms, other ‘acts of God’, and miracles are attributed to them, and they may be thought to be the authorities or controllers of various aspects of human life (such as birth or the afterlife). Some deities are asserted to be the directors of time and fate itself, to be the givers of human law and morality, to be the ultimate judges of human worth and behavior, and to be the designers and creators of the Earth or the universe.

Anything more to say?

[Wulfhere]

Allright... I'm all ears.
I bet I'll be hearing some falsified history anyway, but let's hear the story anyway.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deity


Anything more to say?

Yes. Your first quote refers to the Xian god, and not gods in general.

Actually, I do believe your god exists. I think he was a minor desert god who managed to fool a bunch of slave nations that he was the ruler of the universe.

[HungAryan]

Actually, I do believe your god exists. I think he was a minor desert god who managed to fool a bunch of slave nations that he was the ruler of the universe.


http://mattcbr.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/181148-triple_facepalm_super.jpg

[Magister Eckhart]

http://www.lowbird.com/data/images/2009/03/facepalm.jpg

Paganism is a piece of shit and lies.
Christianity is the only true religion.

Should Neo-Pagans revert to Christianity? Yes, if only they weren't be so desperate to be "cool" and stand out of the crowd.

I pity everyone who considers himself a pagan.
Seriously? Multiple gods? Come on...

A multitude of rulers is not a good thing. Let there be one ruler, one king.

You make me not want to be Christian.

[Albion]

Thus, the Vatican was openly interfering in the business of the different kingdoms and empires.

The Pope supported the Normans in their invasion of England, for that the Church of Rome can never be forgiven.
We have our own variant of Catholicism now, supposedly Protestant but in reality mostly Catholicism minus the pope (but replaced with the monarch) - basically what you were describing about reforming Catholicism.

The Church of England (Anglican) technically sees itself as "reformed Catholic".

I'd do away with the monarch as head of the church too though, then it'd be near perfection.


Paganism is a piece of shit and lies.
Christianity is the only true religion.

Neo-Paganism is yes. Neo-paganism has little factual basis and is usually mixed full of bullshit.

I'd like to see a nice, authentic group of pagan religions in modern Europe. But sadly we know too little about most of them apart from Roman or Greek religion.

One would probably be better becoming a Roman Pagan since the Indo-European religions were related anyway - you'd probably get a more authentic experience than with a reconstructed Celtic or Germanic religion.
Celtic is the worst. At least with Germanic we have some Icelandic texts. With Celtic all we really have is Roman hearsay.


Should Neo-Pagans revert to Christianity? Yes, if only they weren't be so desperate to be "cool" and stand out of the crowd.

That's about it - the quest to be different.


I pity everyone who considers himself a pagan.
Seriously? Multiple gods? Come on...

I haven't quite brought myself to believe one yet...


any reason for that?

Yes, they're more developed and have better education.


Actually, I do believe your god exists. I think he was a minor desert god who managed to fool a bunch of slave nations that he was the ruler of the universe.

The Abrahamic religions are basically based on the religion of the Ancient Middle Eastern peoples with an offshoot in Judaism which gave birth to Christianity.

The belief in one god could always be some sort of progression where the supreme god rules over the others and eventually all other deities are forgotten. I think this would have eventually happened in European Pagan religions.

I think the oldest religions in Europe only had one, two or a few deities anyway - there was the whole Mother-Goddess cult and perhaps latter minor nature gods.

It's strange, in Europe during the Neolithic and after there seems to be more deities for different, specific roles. This happened in the Middle East too, but gradually one supreme deity won out and all others were forgotten about.

Some reading:

Biblical flood based on Babylonian /Mesopotamian flood myth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panbabylonism) (very likely in my opinion - Mesopotamia!)

Babylonian flood myth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enuma_Elish)

[Magister Eckhart]

The Catholic Church could use some of the zeal that is common among heretics. The problem is that, despite IVDEVS' assertions, Protestants on the whole are a great deal more Judaised than the Catholic Church, even in the wake of the two Vatican Councils. The obsession with the Old Testament needs to be flushed out of the heretic "churches" before we can be confident in their return to the True Faith.

Not that I would not welcome with a full heart an end of their apostasy to join our Traditionalists in reversing the Modern changes that have destroyed many of the most important traditions of the Faith without removing any of the corruption of Luther's day. The Italians still have political control over the Church and still have plenty of insidious control over the inner workings of the Papal State - now without any Emperor to keep them in check.

[Óttar]

Thus, he Indo-Aryan Persians traditionally (before Islam) followed Zoroastrianism, another Monotheistic religion. It was a Persian-only religion, and it didn't accept converts.
What do you say about that?
If this is true then how can the entire world be brought over to the worship of Ahura Mazda "The Wise Lord" to do battle with Ahriman before Sayoshant (the Zoroastrian messiah) arrives? Hmmmmm..... :icon_ask:

[Bakura]

Should Roman-Catholics revert to Orthodox Christianity?

[Aces High]

So, what do we say?

I say.....i piss on your fucking middle eastern fairey tales.

Protestants....Catholics......muslims......jews... .........pffffffff

These fucking tales of woe do nothing for the true European soul.

[Zephyr]

Anyone more noticed that every thread this guy opened had at least 3 options?

Yes
No
NO! NO! NEVER!

"NO NO NEVER" is the hungarian drone-motto "NEM NEM SOHA" that they have been repeating for 92 years, referring to Trianon.

Like they could get back all Slovakia and Croatia again under their power... in plain 2012. :rolleyes:

[Bakura]

I say.....i piss on your fucking middle eastern fairey tales.

Protestants....Catholics......muslims......jews... .........pffffffff

These fucking tales of woe do nothing for the true European soul.

...but most of Europeans are still Christian. You atheists, agnostics, heathens, pagans, satanists and other sects are nothing more than just worthless minority in comparison with us.


European soul

What means 'European soul'? Term 'European' is a purely geographical term, nothing more. Like 'Asian' is label for all inhabitans of Asia from Levant to Japan. If you put all Europeans in same basket, then it should be like thinking that Yemeni and Mongols are one people.

[Fortis in Arduis]

No, High Church / Oxford Movement / Anglo-Catholicism is quite enough, thank you. :)

No need for popey.

[Óttar]

Go Orthodox. Celtic Orthodox. Or Greek.

[Aces High]

...but most of Europeans are still Christian.

Well hundreds of thousands of people eat at McDonalds every day instead of eating decent food........doesnt mean McDonalds is any good....it shows us that most people are stupid cunts.;)

[TheBorrebyViking]

Well hundreds of thousands of people eat at McDonalds every day instead of eating decent food........doesnt mean McDonalds is any good....it shows us that most people are stupid cunts.;)

I gotta agree. I'm not hostile towards the religion, but I don't quite like it either. It's held us back a lot.

[LightInDarkness]

I see no real difference to be honest. All Europeans originate from Christendom anyhow. I think this is a matter of freedom of religion/choice. Doesn't really bother me since Im Agnostic.

[Aces High]

All Europeans originate from Christendom anyhow.

MTV isnt really a credible source to get your historic facts you know.

[Peyrol]

No, i prefer only italian Popes as in the Middle Ages.

[Hevneren]

...but most of Europeans are still Christian. You atheists, agnostics, heathens, pagans, satanists and other sects are nothing more than just worthless minority in comparison with us.

Atheists and agnostics aren't part of any "sect". :rolleyes2:

Christianity is a sect, though.

[Hevneren]

I see no real difference to be honest. All Europeans originate from Christendom anyhow.

Is this supposed to be a bad joke? :rolleyes2:

[rhiannon]

Erm....how about Christianity in general revert back to the days before this religion took hold? :thumb001:

Haven't met a whole lot of people that embody the principles genuine Christianity holds dear.
http://nerdnirvana.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/christians.jpg

[Eva]

Yes, you should

[Der Steinadler]

I see no real difference to be honest. All Europeans originate from Christendom anyhow. I think this is a matter of freedom of religion/choice. Doesn't really bother me since Im Agnostic.

i'm sure Arminius, Ceasar and Alexander the Great would agree.

:rolleyes:

[Hevneren]

Yes, you should

Why should they? Why not just let everyone mind their own business? :shrug:

[The Ripper]

I've always wondered about the hostility towards Christianity on the part of supposed European preservationists. The religion that forged Europe being ridiculed by those who wish to "preserve Europe," makes no sense.

Where is the respect for the faith of our ancestors?

[mymy]

If some protestant individual feel that Catholicism suits him/her better, then he should do it, i guess. But I don't believe big groups of people would accept it, because they already built identity on Protestant churches and it is part of their culture now.
But generally watched, it's all Christianity, and i don't understand why differences between churches are so important today when they are minor. Who actually care about it and why?

And, as i said many times, faith and religion should be thing of soul and nothing else. I feel it wrong to say to someone in what he should believe or what to follow.

[rhiannon]

If some protestant individual feel that Catholicism suits him/her better, then he should do it, i guess. But I don't believe big groups of people would accept it, because they already built identity on Protestant churches and it is part of their culture now.
But generally watched, it's all Christianity, and i don't understand why differences between churches are so important today when they are minor. Who actually care about it and why?

And, as i said many times, faith and religion should be thing of soul and nothing else. I feel it wrong to say to someone in what he should believe or what to follow.

I knew you'd have a good outlook, mymy:) I feel similar in that our religious/spiritual beliefs should be considered private and not up for other people's scrutiny. It is unfortunate that religion in general has left a bad taste in my mouth:(

[Eva]

Why should they? Why not just let everyone mind their own business? :shrug:

When writing, the American Protestantism was in my mind. I believe the Protestantism in Europe has remained closer to the roots and traditions of Christianity and it's up to Protestants of Europe whether they want a change or not.
As to the American Protestantism, from what I've seen, there are things that just appall me as Christian, like "Christian" churches for gays and lesbians, or music and dances which make you feel like you have entered a night club, anyone can open a church according to his own understanding of the Bible which is against God's established church, because to be a pastor one should be ordained by older priests who were themselves ordained by the previous ones up to the ones who were ordained by the Apostles.

[Siberyak]

Why should they? Why not just let everyone mind their own business? :shrug:

Would you rather live under Islam ?

[Raskolnikov]

I've always wondered about the hostility towards Christianity on the part of supposed European preservationists. The religion that forged Europe being ridiculed by those who wish to "preserve Europe," makes no sense.

Where is the respect for the faith of our ancestors?
Because there are a lot of Marxistic (NS), Countercultural ("Pagan" and other) and Machiavellian (Randian, "Conservative") people on this site and in the public in general (some Machiavellian/Neoconservative support for Christianity too).

[Zephyr]

I feel it wrong to say to someone in what he should believe or what to follow.

Zealots and proselytes need to force others into their beliefs because of their own frustrations.

[Hevneren]

Would you rather live under Islam ?

What does that have to do with my post? And to answer your peculiar question, no, I'd rather be living in a secular state free of religious dogmas, Middle Eastern or otherwise.

[Siberyak]

What does that have to do with my post? And to answer your peculiar question, no, I'd rather be living in a secular state free of religious dogmas, Middle Eastern or otherwise.

All I asked is would you rather live under extreme Christianity or extreme Islam. You seem to have problems with addressing people without insulting them in some way.

[Hevneren]

All I asked is would you rather live under extreme Christianity or extreme Islam. You seem to have problems with addressing people without insulting them in some way.

How did I insult you? I simply called your question peculiar, as it didn't relate to my post. Why so oversensitive? :shrug:

You didn't ask me whether I'd rather live under extreme Christianity or extreme Islam, though, you asked if I'd prefer living under Islam, but you never stated as opposed to what.

In any case, I fail to see why not wanting to live in a dogmatic Christian nation where religion crosses over into politics, means I'd rather live in an Islamic state. It's a non-sequitor. I naturally want to see neither, and the absence of Christian totalitarianism in Europe doesn't pave the way for Islamic totalitarianism in Europe, if this was what you were hinting at. I find such a notion absurd.

[Siberyak]

How did I insult you? I simply called your question peculiar, as it didn't relate to my post. Why so oversensitive? :shrug:

You didn't ask me whether I'd rather live under extreme Christianity or extreme Islam, though, you asked if I'd prefer living under Islam, but you never stated as opposed to what.

In any case, I fail to see why not wanting to live in a dogmatic Christian nation where religion crosses over into politics, means I'd rather live in an Islamic state. It's a non-sequitor. I naturally want to see neither, and the absence of Christian totalitarianism in Europe doesn't pave the way for Islamic totalitarianism in Europe, if this was what you were hinting at. I find such a notion absurd.

Well I don't know the answer? At least you can insult Christians with out them going completely ape shit (usually). The Christian life style is often laughed at in the USA. As for Muslims if you insult there prophet Muhammad they are after your head. I agree that religion should be kept out of politics.