Why do continental Europeans show such animosity towards colonials?

[Albion]

I'm personally against it, a lot of it is baseless and it makes us all look bad.

Discuss.

[Incal]

I think it's towards Yanks more than anything and it's probably cause 'amurikans' have a very limited vision of the world and think what's good for yanks is good for the rest (when it's the opposite most of the times).

[Joe McCarthy]

Snobbery, ignorance, an inferiority complex, and leftist and fascist political ideology?

[Der Steinadler]

I don't think this confined to colonials, i think its more to do with the aristocratic mentality of looking down.

[Beorn]

The Aussies/Kiwis seem to be alright on the whole. Very in tune with Europe.
On these sort of forums, it tends to stem from the majority of Americans considering Southern Europeans to be mixed race and/or not 'white'. That, plus Americans haven't the personal insight into European mindsets which usually make for absurd reading on most subjects.

[Albion]

Snobbery, ignorance, an inferiority complex, and leftist and fascist political ideology?

I think it's more a reaction to a lot of the anti-European sentiment we see coming from America personally.

[la bombe]

Most Europeans on these boards who have nasty attitudes towards colonials, Americans in particular, generally know very little about the people they're professing to dislike and usually think based on narrow-minded media stereotypes or are reacting to trololols.

My experiences IRL have been much different, I know many Europeans who have positive attitudes towards colonials, be they Aussie, Kiwi, Canuck, Amurikan or otherwise :noidea:

[Supreme American]

Jealousy?

[derLowe]

I'm personally against it, a lot of it is baseless and it makes us all look bad.

Discuss.

Maybe they are a painful reminder of history.

[Grumpy Cat]

Colonials hate eachother more than Europeans hate them. I've spoken to Europeans who were shocked at the cruel things Canadians say about Americans, for example.

[Superior American]

They don't?

I have many European friends and European family. They are as kind as any, there is good and bad in everyone. I never stereotype people from a few who type some crap on the internet. Half of it is trolling, or much of it is just useless banter just to banter. Probably due to something not going right in the person's life so they come online to vent at people. Don't read into it too much, people on the internet are never representive of countries consisting of millions. I don't listen to people when they say 'This group is arrogant, or this group is this and that', because ive seen it in everyone and i know better.

[European Loyalist]

Most Europeans on these boards who have nasty attitudes towards colonials, Americans in particular, generally know very little about the people they're professing to dislike and usually think based on narrow-minded media stereotypes or are reacting to trololols.

My experiences IRL have been much different, I know many Europeans who have positive attitudes towards colonials, be they Aussie, Kiwi, Canuck, Amurikan or otherwise :noidea:

that member who spends his entire day posting here said that indonesia was more civilized than the colonial countries, among other similarly dense things :rolleyes: :lol: It's either terrible trolling or unfathomable ignorance.

And yes IRL Europeans have been incredibly nice people. I know/meet Europeans (family friends, exchange students, immigrants etc.) all the time who are nothing but pleasant people and very complementary of Canada.

[European Loyalist]

Colonials hate eachother more than Europeans hate them. I've spoken to Europeans who were shocked at the cruel things Canadians say about Americans, for example.

we privately mock them and look down on them as the rest of the western world does, but at the end of the day there is some underlying friendship there. there's also an element of insecurity in all of it :p

And I dislike this whole "hate" of entire countries or people concept in general. Rarely if ever is the entire country and all of its people to blame for mis-actions or grievances. Generally it's the elites that cause the problems. Hate the US government, not the American people.

[Styggnacke]

Jealousy?
Why would we be jealous? In what way is the New World a better place than Europe?

[Superior American]

Why would we be jealous? In what way is the New World a better place than Europe?

Well, statistically speaking, Canada & Austrailia are better off nations than most European countries. You asked :P

America still has work to do before it can get back to the top spot it was once at. We have to force all these fatties to lose weight, fix public schools in poorer areas etc etc.

[European Loyalist]

Why would we be jealous? In what way is the New World a better place than Europe?

She could be referring to the fact that Europe lost it's world hegemon status to the United States after WWII. I'm sure there are some Europeans who resent this shift of power and want to go back to the 'old days'.

[Supreme American]

Why would we be jealous? In what way is the New World a better place than Europe?

Power, prosperity, etc.

[Styggnacke]

Power,
We'll see about that in a few decades. And it's only the US in the Anglosphere New World who has any real power.

prosperity,
Most Western European countries aren't exactly poor. Sweden even has a higher GDP per capita than the US.

etc.
What my country lacks but what you can find in the US: Black majority cities, Spic majority cities, neighbourhoods who looks like this (http://www.newyorkmurales.com/imgs_bronx/bronx_05.jpg) etc.

[Alex Delarge]

I don't...

[Supreme American]

I forgot to add our freedoms, specifically in speaking and publishing.

[jerney]

Like others have said, I don't think what people say on these forums is representative of Europeans' views in real life. So many people on these "racial forums" have a demented view of the world and reality. Sure, there are plenty of anti-America Europeans, but the hate is usually geared toward American foreign policy and politics rather than American people. There are also stereotypes about Americans that are formed through TV and movies and interactions with obnoxious and naive American tourists, but overall in the real world the majority have, at the very worst, a neutral opinion about the American people. And when it comes to negative vs positive, I'd say positive definitely outweighs the negative.

[GeistFaust]

Its just a typical superiority complex, which manifests itself when one is conscious of their own vast quantity and quality of traditions, cultures, and customs. Europe has a line of traditions, which is unrivaled, and they have built civilization as know it, not only as we act upon it today, but the highest forms of culture and civilization.


I think Europeans see America as a bastardized and cheapened form of European culture, and that Americans are fakes and phonies. That is they do not have any true or authentic understanding of what it means to be European and to abide by European traditions, customs, and cultural norms. A lot of America's traditional backdrop, although quite young, is very European in fundamental.


It just happens that America has broken and mutated themselves from the standard European traditions and spirit. This makes sense since most of the people coming to America were looking to get away from Europe, although they did transfer some of the culture and mentality. I think Europeans though see themselves as being much purer and unaltered, while Americans are mongrel and mixed mutts with little identity.


A people with no identity is a stagnant and idiotic people, but I don't think many Europeans understand that American, although young, has a legitimate collection of traditions and cultural norms. It just so happened that the course of human events evolved in America where the American identity kept slowly decaying and collapsing into a overtly consumerist and materialistic society.


You could start seeing this around the Gilded Age, which was an age where a huge collection of second wave immigrants were coming into the U.S. Things were becoming increasingly more commercialized and consumerized as the new immigrants were competing with each other in more industrialized and urbanized settings.



There was a need to keep up with the quick settings, and to make the most for the least and cheapest among of input into your product and supplies. There was also a need to keep a ton of customers happy, and to appeal to the masses, which could be seen in populist party.


There was a lot of desire for progressive and popular ideals to be advocated in political and cultural circles, which in large part has sped up into mutating itself through an overtly consumerist and materialistic society. I think the early Americans had a noble and good dream, but their intentions have taken some unexpected turns.


Though it can be said that many of the intentions that earlier Europeans has taken a sharp and drastic turn for the worse with all the multi-culturalism in place today. I think its basically comes down to the fact that Europeans see colonials as young, free spirited, and ignorant. The European is experienced, curbed in tradition/custom, and has a strong sense of cultural and ethnic self.


I think its the way an older child views a younger child or a adult views a teenager or how an older man views an adult. They both misunderstand the situation and perspective from which both sides come from, and thus most likely are going to garner shallow and superficial impressions of the concepts and notions of being in the others shoe.


I think that both sides have shallow and superficial impressions of each other's experience, but I think Europeans hold a slight advantage over Americans in terms of understanding culture in its proper context.

[HunPrideWorldWide]

Europe is an organic continent which was shaped with thousands of years of history.
America is a cheap, plastic, in-organic piece of filth. American's have no bond to their land unlike European's, whose soil is soaked with the blood of their European ancestors.

My dream world would be without Americans polluting the air. Even lowly Albanians are superior to Americans.

[GeistFaust]

Europe is an organic continent which was shaped with thousands of years of history.
America is a cheap, plastic, in-organic piece of filth. American's have no bond to their land unlike European's, whose soil is soaked with the blood of their European ancestors.

My dream world would be without Americans polluting the air. Even lowly Albanians are superior to Americans.



This is true in part, and Americans put a greater emphasis on civil nationalism, which is a cheapened form of nationalism. The identity of a people is formed through the media, popular politics, and cash flows of money. There is not a lot of identity among Americans in relation to Europeans, and the little they have is quite petty and trivial.


Americans have no strong core of culture and tradition, but are more spread out and broken up, and this has to do with America's Calvinistic and Progressive Individualism. Also forms of Nationalism, which center on a more organic perspective of its people and identity tend to be in the Central and Eastern parts of Europe.


The French and British are never known for developing forms of nationalism which centered on an organic perspective of the Volkish consciousness. Their Volkish consciousness centered itself more on the political institutions, economic forces, and cultural/linguistic ties.


A lot of the ethnic/biological Nationalism was inspired by German Romantics, and then their ideals would scatter and spread throughout Eastern Europe.


That said Germany and a few parts of Scandinavia are the only areas that are known for strongly promoting an organic form of nationalism on a large scale. That is why Madison mentions Germany and parts of Denmark and Sweden for being the only people in the world with a strong race-consciousness in total. Eastern forms of Ethnic/Organic Nationalism were too scattered, broken, and lacking of a strong core that they feel apart quickly.

[Joe McCarthy]

There is some legitimate criticism of the US, both in specifics and ideology. Most of the legitimate criticism centers around cultural export, but that has only really become a factor in the last forty years or so, and many anti-American Europeans don't object to this. Much of the criticism comes from a plebeian, little country syndrome, and a lot of these types dislike other Europeans too.

I do strongly agree though that one should not view European perceptions based on venues like this, as the far right is a small, and unusually virulent anti-American demographic. We kicked their asses in 1945, and they know it, and they'll never forgive us for it.

[Allenson]

Europe is an organic continent which was shaped with thousands of years of history.
America is a cheap, plastic, in-organic piece of filth. American's have no bond to their land unlike European's, whose soil is soaked with the blood of their European ancestors.

This is a good example of the misunderstanding that I see over and over again online. Unfortunately, the image of America that has been most pervasive abroad is the modern strip-mall, box-store, tightly packed subdivision verion of America. For some reason, our older values, visions and representatives have been lost in the Hollywood packaged shuffle.

There are many of us whose roots here are deep, whose ancestors faught on this soil (ever heard of the American Revolution and the American Civil War?) and who have great bonds to the land they live on or the region they are from.

There's no doubt that this is on the wane but never make the mistake again to claim that the notions you cited do not exist here--they do. Certainly we don't have the breadth of time that exists in Europe but for many of us, our earliest ancestors came here nearly 400 years ago. By 2030, or perhaps even a little earlier, some of my genetic material will have been here for four centuries. That's plenty of time for deep ties and bonds to be established.

Here's a photo of the house that the bearer of my surname built here in Colonial times, complete with a historic marker in the yard. The stone part on the left is the original house, the wooden part added 20 or so years later:

http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1205/5133524980_fcbf1878fb.jpg

[GeistFaust]

There is some legitimate criticism of the US, both in specifics and ideology. Most of the legitimate criticism centers around cultural export, but that has only really become a factor in the last forty years or so, and many anti-American Europeans don't object to this. Much of the criticism comes from a plebeian, little country syndrome, and a lot of these types dislike other Europeans too.

I do strongly agree though that one should not view European perceptions based on venues like this, as the far right is a small, and unusually virulent anti-American demographic. We kicked their asses in 1945, and they know it, and they'll never forgive us for it.



I don't think they like the fact that America has infilitrated their system of culture and traditions post World War 2. These traditions and cultures have not been interfered with for thousands of years, and to finally interrupt them with the Marshall plan and putting military bases in Germany does not sit well. It still does not sit well in many current European minds, and the American invasion of Europe is seen as synonomous with the wave of immigrants that came flooding into Europe.


I think its only natural that their is an animosity towards Americans, but the ironic thing is they have become dependent on the Americans in an economic, political, and cultural sense since WW2 to some extent. I don't they like this thought of having such a proud and glorious culture and traditions to go along with it, and to have to be dependent on the younger and more free-spirited ignorance of Americans.


A lot of the political movements though derive themselves from Europe, which were important in shaping America. The progressive party for instance takes its roots in the liberal movements in Europe, and the Germans who fled here after the 1848 Revolutions/Frankfurt Parliament failed developed the progressive party.


I think they feel that they are being overlorded and dominated by a pushy, obnoxious, and clumsy ignoramus in America. They see themselves as unconsciously undermining, cheapening, and destroying European culture and traditions all in the name of freedom and progress.


They see a contradiction in this, and hate the superficial images and stereotypes Americans have of the European culture identity, which they see as lacking a poor understanding and being ignorant of Europe's vast history, traditions, and cultural importance.

[Allenson]

that member who spends his entire day posting here said that indonesia was more civilized than the colonial countries, among other similarly dense things :rolleyes: :lol: It's either terrible trolling or unfathomable ignorance.

And yes IRL Europeans have been incredibly nice people. I know/meet Europeans (family friends, exchange students, immigrants etc.) all the time who are nothing but pleasant people and very complementary of Canada.

Agreed. Most Europeans that I meet in my daily life here are very friendly and don't seem to harbor this strong anti-American sentiment that we experience here. I guess they're living here--that kind of attitude wouldn't serve them well here. :lightbul:

There are actually quite a few that have moved here permanently. In the small town I live in, there's an extensive Swiss family that moved here in the 70s, I know several Germans that live in this area now and lastly, there's a whole contingent of Brits I know that have made this part of New England their home. All of them seem to very much enjoy this region and this makes me smile.

[GeistFaust]

This is a good example of the misunderstanding that I see over and over again online. Unfortunately, the image of America that has been most pervasive abroad is the modern strip-mall, box-store, tightly packed subdivision verion of America. For some reason, our older values, visions and representatives have been lost in the Hollywood packaged shuffle.

There are many of us whose roots here are deep, whose ancestors faught on this soil (ever heard of the American Revolution and the American Civil War?) and who have great bonds to the land they live on or the region they are from.

There's no doubt that this is on the wane but never make the mistake again to claim that the notions you cited do not exist here--they do. Certainly we don't have the breadth of time that exists in Europe but for many of us, our earliest ancestors came here nearly 400 years ago. By 2030, or perhaps even a little earlier, some of my genetic material will have been here for four centuries. That's plenty of time for deep ties and bonds to be established.

Here's a photo of the house that the bearer of my surname built here in Colonial times, complete with a historic marker in the yard. The stone part on the left is the original house, the wooden part added 20 or so years later:

http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1205/5133524980_fcbf1878fb.jpg


The Scottish/Ulster Scottish/Irish/English people who settled in communities in the Northeast formed in a sense an organic sense of self. A lot of the early WASP centers oriented themselves on a rather organic sense of self, but I think the a true form of organic nationalism is conservative in principle. A lot of the Central and Eastern European countries manifested this kind of nationalism, which has a tendency to radicalize and become aggressive and expansionist.


The WASP version of organic nationalism later on became caught up in civil/political matters and economic concerns. A lot of them have kept a good Puritan sensibility towards their community, and remain slightly xenophobic to people who don't belong to their family circles. This is something which is even evident in the South where there is this elitist clique mentality in place among the resident and local families, which have been there for a while.


There is a small and marginal version of a organic nationalism, but again its liberal in nature, and it does not permeate on as broad and far reaching of a scale as more Central European forms of organic nationalism. That is the liberal nature of the WASP or early American nationalism tended to divert any of its elitist xenophobic behavior and organic inverted communalism towards civil/political concerns and progressive economic policies. I know this is not that relevant to what you are talking about there, but I thought its interesting.

[Albion]

I forgot to add our freedoms, specifically in speaking and publishing.

We have such freedoms in Europe, in Britain it is so easy to publish a book that we publish more than any other country.

But that freedom also makes it possible for all sorts of agenda promoting retards to publish their own propaganda whether it be via books, newspapers or the internet.

[Comte Arnau]

but the hate is usually geared toward American foreign policy and politics rather than American people. There are also stereotypes about Americans that are formed through TV and movies and interactions with obnoxious and naive American tourists, but overall in the real world the majority have, at the very worst, a neutral opinion about the American people. And when it comes to negative vs positive, I'd say positive definitely outweighs the negative.

That sums it up pretty well, IMO. I'd only add the fact that interventionism in every single country is something locals are usually going to frown upon, not without a reason.

[Osweo]

On these sort of forums, it tends to stem from the majority of Americans considering Southern Europeans to be mixed race and/or not 'white'.

That is a very good point. Unfortunately, it is a natural corollary of having European political dissent shackled to unfashionable physical anthropology in the e-world. The more ignorant American is obviously going to uncritically apply his inapplicable 'white' concept to the actual Europeans he encounters, doing a great injustice to his own intelligent compatriots who he will unhesitatingly claim to speak for. Too often we see in highbrow science threads phrases like "in America he wouldn't be considered White". I'm afraid the onus is on the clever Americans to stomp down on their ignorant fellows. :(

[la bombe]

That is a very good point. Unfortunately, it is a natural corollary of having European political dissent shackled to unfashionable physical anthropology in the e-world. The more ignorant American is obviously going to uncritically apply his inapplicable 'white' concept to the actual Europeans he encounters, doing a great injustice to his own intelligent compatriots who he will unhesitatingly claim to speak for. Too often we see in highbrow science threads phrases like "in America he wouldn't be considered White". I'm afraid the onus is on the clever Americans to stomp down on their ignorant fellows. :(

Europeans themselves do this, arguing over which country is more blonde, Aryan, Nordic, Middle Eastern, chinky-eyed or whatever else. You can't blame Americans for raceboard faggotry.

[Osweo]

Here's a photo of the house that the bearer of my surname built here in Colonial times, complete with a historic marker in the yard. The stone part on the left is the original house, the wooden part added 20 or so years later:

http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1205/5133524980_fcbf1878fb.jpg

I'm so jealous. :(

Too many fools this side of the Ocean forget that there's been massive dislocation here too, with industrialisation, and internal migration.

In contrast with Allenson's centuries of near continuity and preservation of memories about the ancestors, I can only trace my own surname in living oral memory to around 1896 in terms of actual content. Passed on tradition only gives me one name of a great great grandad in the time between the 1890s and 1860s. Beyond then is oblivion.

I then turn to documents preserved by the state, and can push back two further generations, but the earliest document I possess is the 1851 census. A marriage certificate from a few years later mentions the name of my further patrilineal ancestor, who must have been born around 1790, but this man is only a NAME to me. :(

I've lived in Russia too, and such dislocation and loss of memory is familiar there, as it must be in several other countries that have experienced violent political disruption and war.

[Tel Errant]

I'd rather say that Europeans are the peoples in the world who show the least animosity towards colonials and Americans in particular.

[Joe McCarthy]

I'd rather say that Europeans are the peoples in the world who show the least animosity towards colonials and Americans in particular.

I wish that were the case. Unfortunately we're more popular in places like the Philippines and South Korea nowadays.

Continental Europe is a mix. Certainly much less hostile than the Middle East though.

[Tel Errant]

I wish that were the case. Unfortunately we're more popular in places like the Philippines and South Korea nowadays.


Dude, I fall in the antiamerican spectrum of the French people but felt patriotic buying a 360 instead of a PS3... I think it says it all.

[Malta1066Falzon]

I have nothing against Britannia 'cause we weren't treated like dumb cattle (unlike other countries Britain had conquered) :D

[Joe McCarthy]

Dude, I fall in the antiamerican spectrum of the French people but felt patriotic buying a 360 instead of a PS3... I think it says it all.

I think it's fair to say the French people are more anti-American than their government. France represents an interesting polarity between people and state that is somewhat unique in Europe in my opinion. I would say that anti-Americanism, a mild form, is endemic to French society.

And I say that as someone who is a relative Francophile.

[Supreme American]

Here's a photo of the house that the bearer of my surname built here in Colonial times, complete with a historic marker in the yard. The stone part on the left is the original house, the wooden part added 20 or so years later:

http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1205/5133524980_fcbf1878fb.jpg

There is at least one farm in Gallia County, Ohio, in which my ancestors literally built from virgin forest. I know there is a family cemetery there, but I don't think relatives still own the place. They were originally from the Netherlands and settled New Amsterdam circa 1650.

[Albion]

Dude, I fall in the antiamerican spectrum of the French people but felt patriotic buying a 360 instead of a PS3... I think it says it all.

Support white companies. :D


I have nothing against Britannia 'cause we weren't treated like dumb cattle (unlike other countries Britain had conquered)

That's because you're not Africans. ;)

[Anarch]

*inhales deeply, preparing for the imminent flame war that is sure to be unleashed with this post*


I don't think they like the fact that America has infilitrated their system of culture and traditions post World War 2.

The Frankfurt School started in Europe. Marxism is a European export. So is post-structuralism. I'm sure they had zero corruptive effects on American culture :rolleyes2:. I think Europeans (particularly the continental, hard right variety) would do well to remember that whatever corruption you're copping is your own manure being fed back to you.

I'm not convinced American culture, properly speaking, destroyed anything in Europe. The seperation of powers, Independence Day, thanksgiving, the protestant work ethic, the Magna Carta-derived Bill of Rights, a healthy sense of racial self-confidence and the desire for its citizens to achieve and make their own future for themselves - that's what existed before Europe's politics corrupted America's, and funnily enough it's a fair bit healthier than the totalised politics of a drug-addicted, psychotic Austrian corporal.

The diseased, bastard offspring of European intellectual traditions and America's own classically liberal political culture, combined with America's industrious capitalism may not have helped things in Europe, but Europe threw in the towel with the first world war. Europe was exhausted, the flower of French youth was wasted, Germany was kicked square in the nuts, and Hitler distorted and disfigured folkish nationalism and then destroyed any sense of self-confidence and self-worth Europe had left by losing the war and giving half of Europe to the Stalinist hordes with the rest occupied by its free-born grandchildren from the other side of the Atlantic. If the US hadn't turned up, Europe would've been enslaved and turned into a wasteland.

My answer to the earlier question is: an inferiority complex combined with an entirely natural disgust at their impression of what America now is.