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Niegosław Paprocki
01-27-2012, 11:06 PM
What say y'all?

Bozkurt_Karabash
01-27-2012, 11:07 PM
What Arabs?

Padre Organtino
01-27-2012, 11:08 PM
To Georgians

On topic: Turks in general are closer to some non-Black admixed Levantine Arabs but not to Saudis or Iraqis. Western Turks are closer to Euros than to any Arabs.

Sikeliot
01-27-2012, 11:08 PM
^ I agree.

Azalea
01-27-2012, 11:09 PM
It depends. What do you consider Arab? In 23andme, Turks are closer to Southern and Northern Europeans than they are to Arab Bedouins, Palestinians and Druze.

Alex Delarge
01-27-2012, 11:10 PM
Europeans:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Ish7688voT0/TR8ox_MI6qI/AAAAAAAADIE/zEcyBpR0U8s/s1600/MDS1600.png

Nabatea1
01-27-2012, 11:11 PM
Turks are closer to Europeans than they are to Arabs. Real Arabs are an isolate and are SouthWest Asian people who have nothing to do with Turks, as well they lack Mongoloid admixture that is often found, and are by all means Caucasoid who belong to the earliest proto-Semitic peoples. This type is mostly found in the Arabian Desert. Real Arabians have nothing to do with Turks.

Padre Organtino
01-27-2012, 11:13 PM
Ok but Levantines are considered Arabs nowadays.

Nabatea1
01-27-2012, 11:27 PM
Ok but Levantines are considered Arabs nowadays.

Turks are still closer to Europeans than to Levantines. The Druze are quite distant to Turks and other West Asians, them alongside the Samaritans. So the answer would be the same in regards to other Levantine groups, the exception would be some Assyrians who might be present, but in general the answer would be no.

Thraex
01-27-2012, 11:28 PM
Europeans, obviously, as Turks are a European people themselves. That is unless you don't consider Balkan peoples to be European.

Mordid
01-27-2012, 11:29 PM
Hey Forrest Kinglsey, I think Turks are closer to Poles.. Don't you agree?

Alex Delarge
01-27-2012, 11:29 PM
Turks are still closer to Europeans than to Levantines. The Druze are quite distant to Turks and other West Asians, them alongside the Samaritans. So the answer would be the same in regards to other Levantine groups, the exception would be some Assyrians who might be present, but in general the answer would be no.

You should look better at the genetic plot i posted...

safinator
04-04-2012, 08:17 PM
Genetically they are closer to Euros especially Western ones.

Libertas
04-04-2012, 08:58 PM
With respect, the terms used here, "European" and "Arab" are too vague.

Do we mean Swedish or Maltese and Saudi Arabian or northern Sudanese?

hajduk
04-04-2012, 08:59 PM
Safinator was here

xaxa
04-04-2012, 09:03 PM
middle-eastern is not exclusive to Jarabs

Ignorant thread.

brunette
04-04-2012, 09:07 PM
Turks are still closer to Europeans than to Levantines. The Druze are quite distant to Turks and other West Asians, them alongside the Samaritans. So the answer would be the same in regards to other Levantine groups, the exception would be some Assyrians who might be present, but in general the answer would be no.

Not really, the Druze are Circassians Jumblat clan are at least. They were the ruling Monarchy in the Levant during the Ottoman Empire.

Armenians Georgians Azerbaijanis etc other Caucasians are the most like them in West Asia IMO other than that Balkan Europeans. Maybe some of them are pulling towards North Europe genetically who knows.

brick
04-04-2012, 09:22 PM
There are myriad ancestries within Turkey, so it's pointless to make a sweeping statement on this subject. I guess those Turks who are from places such as the Trabzon area, which has many inhabitants of Greek and Laz ancestry, are more related to Europeans, whereas those who hail from places like Antakya or Diyarbakir (Southeastern Turkey) are more likely to be of full or partial Arab ancestry and therefore more akin to Arabs.

Mosov
04-04-2012, 09:42 PM
Europeans:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Ish7688voT0/TR8ox_MI6qI/AAAAAAAADIE/zEcyBpR0U8s/s1600/MDS1600.png

God this is hard to read, I can't see where Armenians cluster in this.

But it basically shows what most genetic clustering shows. Geography. Genetic clustering reflects geography.

Mosov
04-04-2012, 09:45 PM
I think Georgians, Armenians, Kurds, Turks, Azeris will tend to belong in a seperate Anatolian/Caucasian group while Arabs/Levantine people belong to a separate group, while Persians I would place maybe as separate group.

brunette
04-04-2012, 09:46 PM
There are myriad ancestries within Turkey, so it's pointless to make a sweeping statement on this subject. I guess those Turks who are from places such as the Trabzon area, which has many inhabitants of Greek and Laz ancestry, are more related to Europeans, whereas those who hail from places like Antakya or Diyarbakir (Southeastern Turkey) are more likely to be of full or partial Arab ancestry and therefore more akin to Arabs.


Not really Arabs, Arabs because they didn't really put them into their army. Some Western Turks have Greek or partial Greek ancestry because Pontus is Asia Minor..Either that or some kind of Caucasian ancestry like Armenian or Azeri. The Georgians ( laz tribe from Crimmea ) immigrated there from North Greece also. I've heard that Turks from the Eastern side have Kurdish ancestry not Arabs.

orangepulp
04-04-2012, 09:46 PM
In comparison to Arabs vs Euros in the genetic sense, Turks are closer to Europeans but they are not closer to Europeans than to West Asians such as Armenians, Georgians, Assyrians etc..

In comparison culturally, I would say Turks are closer to Arabs than to Europeans due to the same religion they share.

orangepulp
04-04-2012, 09:57 PM
Not really Arabs, Arabs because they didn't really put them into their army. Some Western Turks have Greek or partial Greek ancestry because Pontus is Asia Minor..Either that or some kind of Caucasian ancestry like Armenian or Azeri. The Georgians ( laz tribe from Crimmea ) immigrated there from North Greece also. I've heard that Turks from the Eastern side have Kurdish ancestry not Arabs.
Keep in mind that Greeks score significant West Asian genes, so it doesn't always mean that Anatolian Turks have significant Greek ancestry, its more like Greeks have West Asian ancestry.

North Eastern Turks are closer to people of the Caucasus than Western Turks.

North Eastern Turks don't have Kurdish ancestry, My mother is a North Eastern Turk and in her city it is known who is Kurdish and who is Turkish. For example the natives of her city ( Erzurum) are called Dadash. North Eastern Turks have a better affinity with Caucasus people than with Kurds. I know 4 North Eastern Turks including myself ( half North Eastern Turk) and our genetics don't point out Kurdish ancestry.

brunette
04-04-2012, 09:57 PM
That can't be right, Armenians and Georgians can't be more genetically genetically European than Turks because they're Christian. You're not Luke under a new account are you, dear?

Mosov
04-04-2012, 09:58 PM
But Arabs are diverse also. Turks will have much more in common with Syrians for example than Yemenis.

brunette
04-04-2012, 09:59 PM
Keep in mind that Greeks score significant West Asian genes, so it doesn't always mean that Anatolian Turks have significant Greek ancestry, its more like Greeks have West Asian ancestry.

North Eastern Turks are closer to people of the Caucasus than Western Turks.

North Eastern Turks don't have Kurdish ancestry, My mother is a North Eastern Turk and in her city it is known who is Kurdish and who is Turkish. For example the natives of her city ( Erzurum) are called Dadash. North Eastern Turks have a better affinity with Caucasus people than with Kurds. I know 4 North Eastern Turks including myself ( half North Eastern Turk) our their genetics don't point out Kurdish ancestry.

It's both I think i'd say it's down to the Phoenicians also who were from the Near East.

Macedonians I mean the Goths who are Pontic Greeks mixed with Slavs they've been there for centuries.

brunette
04-04-2012, 10:02 PM
Well...it depends how long you want to go back, Southern Europeans evolved from Western Asia so there's no such thing as a Western Turk a Greek a Southern Serb a Bulgarian an Armenian or an Southern Azeri ( Nordic Iranian ) or a Georgian Laz, they're just tags it doesn't mean anything.

Mosov
04-04-2012, 10:03 PM
Well...it depends how long you want to go back, Southern Europeans evolved from Western Asia so there's no such thing as a Western Turk a Greek a Southern Serb a Bulgarian an Armenian or an Southern Azeri ( Nordic Iranian ) or a Georgian Laz, they're just tags it doesn't mean anything.

Well in the end such labels are just geographical/cultural designations as genetics reflects the geography.

orangepulp
04-04-2012, 10:04 PM
There are myriad ancestries within Turkey, so it's pointless to make a sweeping statement on this subject. I guess those Turks who are from places such as the Trabzon area, which has many inhabitants of Greek and Laz ancestry, are more related to Europeans, whereas those who hail from places like Antakya or Diyarbakir (Southeastern Turkey) are more likely to be of full or partial Arab ancestry and therefore more akin to Arabs.

That's not true. A user ''Turku'' who posts here did a DNA test and she is from Adana (Southern Turkey) and she does not show any Arab ancestry.
I have seen results of other Southern Turks too, they also don't show any more Southwest Asian than the average Turk.

brunette
04-04-2012, 10:12 PM
But Arabs are diverse also. Turks will have much more in common with Syrians for example than Yemenis.

Probably because the Turks populated the levant and there was no such thing as Lebanon Syria and Turkey. It was actually called greater Syria. The French overthrew the Turks and split up Lebanon Syria and Turkey for that reason some Turkish people ( and Armenians ) were forced to move to Lebanon and Syria who were living in Turkey to begin with.

Mosov
04-04-2012, 10:13 PM
There really wasn't that much Arab gene flow into Anatolia/Caucasus.

brunette
04-04-2012, 10:14 PM
Well in the end such labels are just geographical/cultural designations as genetics reflects the geography.

Western Asians are closer to Southern Europeans than any type of Europeans IMO.

And no other Asians are close to Europeans of any sort apart from West Asians. We are not only geographically closer but genetically.

Mosov
04-04-2012, 10:16 PM
Western Asians are closer to Southern Europeans than any type of Europeans IMO.

And no other Asians are close to Europeans of any sort apart from West Asians. We are not only geographically closer but genetically.

'Western Asians' seems such a broad and ambiguous term lol I rather stick to more specific labels.

brunette
04-04-2012, 10:19 PM
But I don't like using the word Levantine which is just thrown around the Levant has to be the most mixed populated parts of Asia, and really the only Levantines who can honestly call themseleves as such would have to be Lebanese or Syrian people of Turkish Armenian Georgian Circassian ( maybe ) or Greek ancestry. It would mean that they're indigenous at least in the West Asian sense even if they're different ethnic groups.

brick
04-05-2012, 09:40 AM
That's not true. A user ''Turku'' who posts here did a DNA test and she is from Adana (Southern Turkey) and she does not show any Arab ancestry.
I have seen results of other Southern Turks too, they also don't show any more Southwest Asian than the average Turk.

I'm not saying everyone in the southern portion of Turkey is of full or partial Arab ancestry. Maybe I should've phrased it better. What I meant to say is that you can find many people of Arab descent there. I know some Turkish Arabs who are from the Hatay region, which used to be part of Syria. The French gave it to Turkey in the aftermath of WW1.

riverman
04-05-2012, 09:45 AM
Probably both, depending on the individual. Some Turks look like (some) Arabs and some look closer to southern Europeans.

Plissken
04-05-2012, 09:46 AM
With respect, the terms used here, "European" and "Arab" are too vague.

Do we mean Swedish or Maltese and Saudi Arabian or northern Sudanese?

With all respect, Malta is geographically and culturally part of Europe, hands down.

orangepulp
04-05-2012, 09:54 AM
I'm not saying everyone in the southern portion of Turkey is of full or partial Arab ancestry. Maybe I should've phrased it better. What I meant to say is that you can find many people of Arab descent there. I know some Turkish Arabs who are from the Hatay region, which used to be part of Syria. The French gave it to Turkey in the aftermath of WW1.

As you said they are Turkish Arabs, not fully ethnic Anatolian Turks.

Probably both, depending on the individual. Some Turks look like (some) Arabs and some look closer to southern Europeans.
You mean to say some look like Levantines.
Levantines are not purely Arab.

Anyway genotype does not equal phenotype. Even if some do look Levantine it doesn't mean their DNA points out Levantine ancestry. Genetically Turks are not close to Arabs or Levantines than they are to Europeans. Turks are West Asians.

Cultural wise its different though, as I stated earlier culturally we are closer to Arabs due to religion.

dralos
04-05-2012, 09:59 AM
those turks with balkan ancestry or other euro ancestry in wich the euro ancestry is prevailing and with very little admix are closer to euros others are not

Onur
04-05-2012, 10:07 AM
Not really Arabs, Arabs because they didn't really put them into their army. Some Western Turks have Greek or partial Greek ancestry because Pontus is Asia Minor..Either that or some kind of Caucasian ancestry like Armenian or Azeri. The Georgians ( laz tribe from Crimmea ) immigrated there from North Greece also. I've heard that Turks from the Eastern side have Kurdish ancestry not Arabs.
How about the Greeks with partial Turkish ancestry? Do they put them in Greek army?

Btw Laz people absolutely have no connection with Greeks, ancient or modern. I didn't know that Greeks even tries to connect Lazs with ancient Greeks :) There was around 50 to 100k immigrant Laz people in Greece `till 1940s but laters they have been hellenized and disappeared just as Turkish christians.


In comparison culturally, I would say Turks are closer to Arabs than to Europeans due to the same religion they share
Well but thats basically the only common thing between Arabs and Turks. So, the connection between Bosnians and Arabs are about same as between Turks and Arabs.

Also, contrary to popular belief, Turks learned islam from Iranians, not from Arabs. About 75% of Turkish muslims are sunni but most of the islamic terminology in Turkish are from Iranian language, not from Arabic.

orangepulp
04-05-2012, 10:07 AM
those turks with balkan ancestry or other euro ancestry in wich the euro ancestry is prevailing and with very little admix are closer to euros others are not

Turks are not European but in genetic comparison after other West Asians such as Armenians, Georgians, Assyrians etc. Turks are closest to Europeans.

I don't have Euro ancestry and see my genetic results:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39254

riverman
04-05-2012, 10:21 AM
As you said they are Turkish Arabs, not fully ethnic Anatolian Turks.

You mean to say some look like Levantines.
Levantines are not purely Arab.

Anyway genotype does not equal phenotype. Even if some do look Levantine it doesn't mean their DNA points out Levantine ancestry. Genetically Turks are not close to Arabs or Levantines than they are to Europeans. Turks are West Asians.

Cultural wise its different though, as I stated earlier culturally we are closer to Arabs due to religion.

No, I meant Arabs, because that's the question in the OP.

dralos
04-05-2012, 10:23 AM
Turks are not European but in genetic comparison after other West Asians such as Armenians, Georgians, Assyrians etc. Turks are closest to Europeans.

I don't have Euro ancestry and see my genetic results:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39254
offcourse you have balkan is 11%,and all those turks you see on the series most of them have european ancestry,but you have also those typical turk faces wich you don't see that much on tv bcs they don't look that good

orangepulp
04-05-2012, 10:29 AM
No, I meant Arabs, because that's the question in the OP.

This is how a real Arab looks like:

http://weaselzippers.us/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/4535398714_9610cff658.jpg

No Turk looks like that


Well but thats basically the only common thing between Arabs and Turks. So, the connection between Bosnians and Arabs are about same as between Turks and Arabs.

Also, contrary to popular belief, Turks learned islam from Iranians, not from Arabs. About 75% of Turkish muslims are sunni but most of the islamic terminology in Turkish are from Iranian language, not from Arabic.
It doesn't matter who they learned Islam from, the point is religion it self is a culture and connects people and that's why Turks are probably closer to Arabs than they are to Euros when comparing, not that they are culturally Arab.


offcourse you have balkan is 11%,and all those turks you see on the series most of them have european ancestry,but you have also those typical turk faces wich you don't see that much on tv bcs they don't look that good

Georgians have less Euro input than Turks yet many can pass as Euro. As I said 11% is not that much anyway.

You never even saw me, how can you make judgments on my looks.

dralos
04-05-2012, 10:34 AM
This is how a real Arab looks like:

http://weaselzippers.us/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/4535398714_9610cff658.jpg

No Turk looks like that

It doesn't matter who they learned Islam from, the point is religion it self is a culture and connects people and that's why Turks are probably closer to Arabs than they are to Euros when comparing, not that are culturally Arab.



Georgians have less Euro input than Turks yet many can pass as Euro. As I said 11% is not that much anyway.

You never even saw me, how can you make judgments on my looks.
where did i judge your face?and no georgians can't pass for euros atall,only a tiny minority who are heavily euromixed

xaxa
04-05-2012, 10:39 AM
To answer the question, Turks are closer to Turks.

orangepulp
04-05-2012, 10:40 AM
where did i judge your face?

Misunderstood what you wrote.


and no georgians can't pass for euros atall,only a tiny minority who are heavily euromixed
I have seen many Georgians that can pass in Europe. Georgians have light skin and are Caucasoid.

dralos
04-05-2012, 10:42 AM
Misunderstood what you wrote.


I have seen many Georgians that can pass in Europe. Georgians have light skin and are Caucasoid.
amjority can't pass atall,but you have a very dissordred view about europeans

riverman
04-05-2012, 10:43 AM
@Orangepulp



"Arab" is not an ethnic term.
The point is that some Turks look closer to (some) Arabs than they do Europeans.
The OP also does not specify as to whether the question is referring to phenotype or genotype, either.

orangepulp
04-05-2012, 10:48 AM
amjority can't pass atall,but you have a very dissordred view about europeans
Georgians
http://www.lessonsofliberty.org/Georgia/Georgians.jpg
http://georgiancommunity.org/Group.jpg

dralos
04-05-2012, 10:52 AM
cherrypicking and i did say a minorty can pass

brunette
04-05-2012, 11:01 AM
Cherrypicking just about every nation in the world does that.

riverman
04-05-2012, 11:09 AM
^ Those weren't Turks anyway.

brunette
04-05-2012, 11:09 AM
How about the Greeks with partial Turkish ancestry? Do they put them in Greek army?

Btw Laz people absolutely have no connection with Greeks, ancient or modern. I didn't know that Greeks even tries to connect Lazs with ancient Greeks :) There was around 50 to 100k immigrant Laz people in Greece `till 1940s but laters they have been hellenized and disappeared just as Turkish christians.


Well but thats basically the only common thing between Arabs and Turks. So, the connection between Bosnians and Arabs are about same as between Turks and Arabs.

Also, contrary to popular belief, Turks learned islam from Iranians, not from Arabs. About 75% of Turkish muslims are sunni but most of the islamic terminology in Turkish are from Iranian language, not from Arabic.

There's no such thing as a Greek with Turkish ancestry. No Greek could have Turkish ancestry. It's because of the Phoenicians that the East Med basin has a Near Eastern ancestry that and because lot of the Western European basin survived the Neolithic migration that Southern and South Eastern Europe didn't.

The Georgian Laz are indigenous of the Black sea that's what I said.

brunette
04-05-2012, 11:12 AM
^ Those weren't Turks anyway.

Yes they are, they live in Turkey it doesn't matter what they are racially.

orangepulp
04-05-2012, 11:15 AM
@Orangepulp



"Arab" is not an ethnic term.
The point is that some Turks look closer to (some) Arabs than they do Europeans.
The OP also does not specify as to whether the question is referring to phenotype or genotype, either.
Arab is an ethnic term, gulf Arabs don't consider Levantines to be real Arabs and thats why I said that some Turks can pass as Levantines but not as Gulf Arabs.

cherrypicking and i did say a minorty can pass
Those were group pics, not cherry picked. More Georgians in crowd:

http://static.stuff.co.nz/1316574959/725/5662725.jpg
http://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Mikheil+Saakashvili+MTV+Live+Georgia+Show+sbDLjdWs adIl.jpg
http://www.eurasianet.org/sites/eurasianet.org/files/imagecache/gallery/5.JPG
http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Mikheil+Saakashvili+MTV+Live+Georgia+Show+hnAjVmtR FOMl.jpg

dralos
04-05-2012, 11:20 AM
Arab is an ethnic term, gulf Arabs don't consider Levantines to be real Arabs and thats why I said that some Turks can pass as Levantines but not as Gulf Arabs.

Those were group pics, not cherry picked. More Georgians in crowd:

http://static.stuff.co.nz/1316574959/725/5662725.jpg
http://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Mikheil+Saakashvili+MTV+Live+Georgia+Show+sbDLjdWs adIl.jpg
http://www.eurasianet.org/sites/eurasianet.org/files/imagecache/gallery/5.JPG
http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Mikheil+Saakashvili+MTV+Live+Georgia+Show+hnAjVmtR FOMl.jpg
they can't pass and that pic of children is stupid

brunette
04-05-2012, 11:22 AM
There's nothing non European about them.

Prince Carlo
04-05-2012, 11:27 AM
According to Dienekes, SouthWest Asian people originated in Anatolia/Caucasus. The SWA admixture found in Turkey is indigenous, rather than being the result of back migration from Arabia/Levant.

brunette
04-05-2012, 11:30 AM
That's a edited blog i've fumed over one or two threads he's done. ^

brunette
04-05-2012, 11:36 AM
http://historical-melungeons.blogspot.co.uk/2008/03/there-is-no-unique-turkish-dna.html

Read this by American scientist Janet Crain it says that alot of the time patterns of (haplogroups E3b, G, J, I, L, N, K2, and R1; 94.1%) are shared with European and neighboring Near Eastern populations* and contrast with only a minor share of haplogroups related to Central Asian (C, Q and O; 3.4%), Indian (H, R2; 1.5%) and African (A, E3*, E3a; 1%) affinity.

haplogroup R1b3 emanates from Turkey towards Southeast Europe and Caucasia. So it looks like that would be the most likely for the majority of Turkey according to her anyway.

Prince Carlo
04-05-2012, 11:37 AM
That's a edited blog i've fumed over one or two threads he's done. ^

The problem is that SWA people absorbed proto-east african alleles during their southward expansion. Being able to distinguish neolitich SWA admixture (pure caucasoid) from Arabian SWA admixture (semi-caucasoid) is very important.

brunette
04-05-2012, 11:44 AM
I don't care about South West Asians to be honest dude it doesn't concern my family.

I don't know what they are racially only Indians ( especially the Pars ) Persian Iranians perhaps Afghanis seem to be typically South West Asian and share a common ancestry.

Onur
04-05-2012, 11:59 AM
offcourse you have balkan is 11%,and all those turks you see on the series most of them have european ancestry,but you have also those typical turk faces wich you don't see that much on tv bcs they don't look that good
These are just your stereotypes and false beliefs, typical to anyone from Balkans.

While there is a strong criticism about the usage of nonstandard rural Turkish dialects for our series in Turkey, you come up and claim that "typical Turks" doesn't get represented in our series but only the so-called "European Turks", whatever that means.

I just laugh at your words like "Euro Turks looks good and only they becomes actors in the series. Non-Euro Turks are ugly and they cant play in the series" :(:( :rolleyes2:


It doesn't matter who they learned Islam from, the point is religion it self is a culture and connects people and that's why Turks are probably closer to Arabs than they are to Euros when comparing, not that they are culturally Arab.
Yes, religion is part of the culture but so-called islamic/orthodox/catholic brotherhood is fake. This is something proven many times throughout history. Religion doesn't connect people, this is a false belief.


You never even saw me, how can you make judgments on my looks.
It`s obvious that he is living with his own stereotypes. Just leave him be :)


There's no such thing as a Greek with Turkish ancestry. No Greek could have Turkish ancestry.
Just as Albanians, Vlachs, Lazs, there were many Turkish christians who gone to Greece in 1924 and they became hellenized laters. Karamanlides, central Anatolian christians, Gagauzs are some of them. We know that these people was speaking Turkish as a mothertongue for at least 600-700 years from the historical documents. Byzantine records also mentions about the existence of Turkish christians in 13-14th century.

Ofc the official Greek propaganda denies all of these says that 10.000 years ago, everyone was Greek. If you believe this claim, then i have nothing to say to you.

riverman
04-05-2012, 12:06 PM
Yes they are, they live in Turkey it doesn't matter what they are racially.

I'm discussing ethnicity here, not nationality. You realize, (I hope) that there are e.Africans living in Scandinavia for example, do you really think that if someone makes a thread asking "Are Scandinavians closer to Germans or English", that it would be logical to post pics of e.African Scandinavian citizens?? :rolleyes2:

Leliana
04-05-2012, 02:01 PM
Turks are close to other Turk people: Azerbaidschan and Turkmenistan. Then they are close to Arabs. They have nothing in common with us Europeans.

xaxa
04-05-2012, 02:09 PM
Turks ruled Europe for centuries. I think it is better to ask who is Turkish in Europe than to ask who is European :D

May the butt-hurt be strong!

Turks are too proud to be called European or Arab. Most Turks don't want to be in EU gay club since recent events.

Midori
04-05-2012, 02:12 PM
Turks ruled Europe for centuries. I think it is better to ask who is Turkish in Europe than to ask who is European :D

May the butt-hurt be strong!

Turks are too proud to be called European or Arab. Most Turks don't want to be in EU gay club since recent events.

Doesn't matter how long you ruled Europe, nobody wanted to mix with subhumans like you :coffee:

riverman
04-05-2012, 02:13 PM
Turks are close to other Turk people: Azerbaidschan and Turkmenistan. Then they are close to Arabs. They have nothing in common with us Europeans.

That's cool. But the OP question is asking who is closer to Turks, Europeans or Arabs.

xaxa
04-05-2012, 02:15 PM
Doesn't matter how long you ruled Europe, nobody wanted to mix with subhumans like you :coffee:

Yea, everybody is waiting to mix with genetic trash like yourself. I think you are thinking too high of yourself. Just sayin.

Rron
04-05-2012, 02:17 PM
Turks ruled Europe for centuries. I think it is better to ask who is Turkish in Europe than to ask who is European :D
Sentences of this kind are very offensive toward Europeans , should be thankful because of oppurtunity to post in European forum instead of beeotching here ,you aziatic horde.

xaxa
04-05-2012, 02:18 PM
@Rron

I don't find that. I'm just responding to the disrespect and offensive language here.

Midori
04-05-2012, 02:36 PM
Yea, everybody is waiting to mix with genetic trash like yourself. I think you are thinking too high of yourself. Just sayin.

LOL where did I say I'm a supreme human being? I actually think very low of myself, but that doesn't matter. You said we Europeans have Turkish genes, so I just responded accordingly to your trolling.

xaxa
04-05-2012, 02:40 PM
I didn't say anything like that. Probably you heard what you wanted to hear. I just said that I think it is weird that some Balkan people say that Turks are this and that. They, Balkan people were at our mercy for centuries. If we wanted we could have broken you and submit you like the Americans/Europeans did to places that they conquered. I just wanted you to know that you have your identity because of our goodwill. Show a little bit more respect.

Rron
04-05-2012, 02:46 PM
Turks ruled Europe for centuries. I think it is better to ask who is Turkish in Europe than to ask who is European :D

May the butt-hurt be strong!

Turks are too proud to be called European or Arab. Most Turks don't want to be in EU gay club since recent events.
This is what you said troll.

Midori
04-05-2012, 02:47 PM
^^You think that if your ancestors could do that, they wouldn't have done it? :rolleyes2: They also tried to convert us all to Islam but luckily they didn't succeed. I thank God for giving my ancestors a strong will and faith not to fall under the pressure of the Muslim invaders

Leliana
04-05-2012, 02:48 PM
Turks ruled Europe for centuries.
You ruled Europe? :D Your pathetic people never ruled Europe. You occupied small parts of Europe -> most of the Balkan peninsula -> and then your were initally battered in 1529 only to be royally disassembled and outright wiped out in 1683 and the years afterwards.

My people wiped the floor with the Ottoman horde and your crescent flag at the gates of Vienna and we pushed you back to the Bosporus like sheep in the subsequent time.

cmd_
04-05-2012, 02:53 PM
"xaxa" is top be taken with a grain of salt. For he, like many others, actually believes that they are racially Turkic when genetic proofs have resulted that they are more related to the Anatolian people than the mongoloid central & east Asians. Eventually their Ottoman & Turanist dream bubble will break. Whether they like it or not.

By the way, what on earth are you doing in Netherlands? This country does not racially or culturally belong to you.

Rron
04-05-2012, 02:54 PM
I didn't say anything like that. Probably you heard what you wanted to hear. I just said that I think it is weird that some Balkan people say that Turks are this and that. They, Balkan people were at our mercy for centuries. If we wanted we could have broken you and submit you like the Americans/Europeans did to places that they conquered. I just wanted you to know that you have your identity because of our goodwill. Show a little bit more respect.
Yes we are very thankful to you about serials of turkish cinema lately:rolleyes::rolleyes:.

Peter Nirsch
04-05-2012, 03:00 PM
Albania, Bosnia, Greece, Caucaus, Turkmenistan and Iran

Rron
04-05-2012, 03:03 PM
Albania, Bosnia, Greece, Caucaus, Turkmenistan and Iran
From your 74 posts in 70 of them you mentioned Albania and Albanians .

Hayalet
04-05-2012, 03:09 PM
Turks ruled Europe for centuries. I think it is better to ask who is Turkish in Europe than to ask who is European :D

May the butt-hurt be strong!

Turks are too proud to be called European or Arab. Most Turks don't want to be in EU gay club since recent events.
Can you please rewrite this post in Turkish? Thanks in advance.

xaxa
04-05-2012, 03:16 PM
Too many people are preoccupied with Turks. Turks consists out of different kind of people just like the Greeks consisted out of different kind of people.
Some people have a skewed view of genetics and history. Probably they are just trolling to get attention. At the end Turks have the choice which language they speak or which religion they choose.

But-hurtism will take you nowhere.Nobody could take your from our hands in the past. Turks deserve respect because they didn;t do the same Europeans did to places they conquered.

Corvus
04-05-2012, 03:18 PM
Too many people are preoccupied with Turks. Turks consists out of different kind of people just like the Greeks consisted out of different kind of people.
Some people have a skewed view of genetics and history. Probably they are just trolling to get attention.

Nobody could take your from our hands in the past. Turks deserve respect because they didn;t do the same Europeans did to places they conquered.

But nearly all Turks are Muslims :icon_lol:

xaxa
04-05-2012, 03:27 PM
Religion: Roman Catholic

Do you know what the first thing comes to my mind when I read this word?

Corvus
04-05-2012, 03:31 PM
Religion: Roman Catholic

Do you know what the first thing comes to my mind when I read this word?

http://www.nataliedee.com/120610/dont-even-tell-me.jpg

Hayalet
04-05-2012, 03:31 PM
Too many people are preoccupied with Turks.
I agree, some people go as far to impersonate them. On a completely unrelated topic, are you going to rewrite that post in Turkish like I asked?

Oh wait.


At the end Turks have the choice which language they speak or which religion they choose.

Are you implying here you are a Turk that somehow happens not to speak Turkish? :biggrin:

Aviane
04-05-2012, 03:43 PM
Turks to me are closer to Europeans no matter what.

Mosov
04-05-2012, 04:08 PM
You ruled Europe? :D Your pathetic people never ruled Europe. You occupied small parts of Europe -> most of the Balkan peninsula -> and then your were initally battered in 1529 only to be royally disassembled and outright wiped out in 1683 and the years afterwards.

My people wiped the floor with the Ottoman horde and your crescent flag at the gates of Vienna and we pushed you back to the Bosporus like sheep in the subsequent time.

One of the greatest battles :thumbs up

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cf/Hussar_by_Alexander_Orlowski.jpg/434px-Hussar_by_Alexander_Orlowski.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b0/Battle_of_Vienna_%281683%29_by_J%C3%B3zef_Brandt.P NG/800px-Battle_of_Vienna_%281683%29_by_J%C3%B3zef_Brandt.P NG

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/01/Battle_of_Vienna02.jpg/800px-Battle_of_Vienna02.jpg

xaxa
04-05-2012, 04:16 PM
@Mosov

"300 jahr jubilaum abwehr der Turken vor Wien"

I believe it says in German:
300 years of anniversary of the victory of the battle of Vianna.

Some people say Turks were never able to conquer Vianna. You go there now and see how many Turks there are :D We won after all.

Mosov
04-05-2012, 04:43 PM
@Mosov

"300 jahr jubilaum abwehr der Turken vor Wien"

I believe it says in German:
300 years of anniversary of the victory of the battle of Vianna.

Some people say Turks were never able to conquer Vianna. You go there now and see how many Turks there are :D We won after all.

If you can't beat them, you breed them out. I can see how Turks are taking revenge few hundred years later lol. Austrians either have to start breeding more or their demographics are doomed.

orangepulp
04-05-2012, 04:52 PM
You ruled Europe? :D Your pathetic people never ruled Europe. You occupied small parts of Europe -> most of the Balkan peninsula -> and then your were initally battered in 1529 only to be royally disassembled and outright wiped out in 1683 and the years afterwards.

Ruled or occupied same thing, fact is we ruled parts of Europe, Middle East and Africa for 600 years. The Ottoman Empire is in the list of one of the greatest Empires in history.You people had your part of occupying and imperializing nations for centuries yet criticize when Turks rule. Typical hypocrite you are.

Mosov
04-05-2012, 05:26 PM
Ruled or occupied same thing, fact is we ruled parts of Europe, Middle East and Africa for 600 years. The Ottoman Empire is in the list of one of the greatest Empires in history.You people had your part of occupying and imperializing nations for centuries yet criticize when Turks rule. Typical hypocrite you are.

Europeans just don't like Turks. Reputation of Turks in Europe has never been high either. And even if it was a long time ago, the battle of Vienna and how Turks tried to take over Europe is still etched in peoples' minds.

Nabatea1
04-05-2012, 05:34 PM
Turks are close to other Turk people: Azerbaidschan and Turkmenistan. Then they are close to Arabs. They have nothing in common with us Europeans.

Genetically they are closer to Europeans, than to Arabs. In fact Anatolian Turks are closer to Europeans they are to Azeris or Turkmens. The Azeris are for example an Iranian population that shifted to Turkic in recent times, well the Turkmens are basically Caucasoid-Mongoloid mix, whom some Turks share ancestry with. In fact Turks have no genetic commonality with Arabs at all. Culturally you can say they share some cultural elements with Arabs and this is due to religion, however in and all their culture and genetics is the closest to West Asians like Georgians and Armenians especially, and then followed by Europeans, and to lesser extent Iranic nations like Persians and Kurds, after that Levantines and then to Arabs. If you think that the culture and genetic relationship between Turkey and Arabia is very much the same, you are off the charts, since genetics nor cultural elements seem to be shared with few minor cases, in fact they have more common with Europeans especially SouthEast Europe than they do with Arabia. Anyone who is not biased or has an agenda knows this is in fact the truth of the matter.

Mosov
04-05-2012, 05:41 PM
Genetically they are closer to Europeans, than to Arabs. In fact Anatolian Turks are closer to Europeans they are to Azeris or Turkmens. The Azeris are for example an Iranian population that shifted to Turkic in recent times, well the Turkmens are basically Caucasoid-Mongoloid mix, whom some Turks share ancestry with. In fact Turks have no genetic commonality with Arabs at all. Culturally you can say they share some cultural elements with Arabs and this is due to religion, however in and all their culture and genetics is the closest to West Asians like Georgians and Armenians especially, and then followed by Europeans, and to lesser extent Iranic nations like Persians and Kurds, after that Levantines and then to Arabs. If you think that the culture and genetic relationship between Turkey and Arabia is very much the same, you are off the charts, since genetics nor cultural elements seem to be shared with few minor cases, in fact they have more common with Europeans especially SouthEast Europe than they do with Arabia. Anyone who is not biased or has an agenda knows this is in fact the truth of the matter.

Thing is Turkish nationalists often identify themselves with the Great Turan and other Turkic nations such as Azerbaijan and in Central Asia. Though genetic connection among the nations is not very strong, there is linguistic and some cultural connections. I think a division can be made in resulting Arab groups, Iranic groups (including Kurds), Anatolian/Caucasian folks, North Caucasian folks (Chechens).

Talvi
04-05-2012, 05:51 PM
Europeans just don't like Turks. Reputation of Turks in Europe has never been high either. And even if it was a long time ago, the battle of Vienna and how Turks tried to take over Europe is still etched in peoples' minds.

You know.. if that is true for Europeans then this is ridiculous.

I dont see what makes Germans, Brits, Russians different from Turks. They have all played a big part in destroying other cultures. Since I am unaware of Turkish history I am inclined to say Europeans have done that a lot more than they have.

Why should I hate Turks just because some Western Euros think they are the enemy? They dont hate my enemies.

Kanuni
04-05-2012, 05:55 PM
I agree, some people go as far to impersonate them. On a completely unrelated topic, are you going to rewrite that post in Turkish like I asked?


Read again this post xaxa.:coffee:

xaxa
04-05-2012, 05:55 PM
You know.. if that is true for Europeans then this is ridiculous.

I dont see what makes Germans, Brits, Russians different from Turks. They have all played a big part in destroying other cultures. Since I am unaware of Turkish history I am inclined to say Europeans have done that a lot more than they have.

Why should I hate Turks just because some Western Euros think they are the enemy? They dont hate my enemies.
Armenians are not even European and they know everything the best and what Europeans should like and dislike.

I really want to crush these Armenians for their disrespect but it is not worth it. the best punishment for Armenians is time. Armenia is an isolated country, all their neighbors hate Armenia and that is why the borders are closed and should be closed for ever until their hatred dies with them.

Mosov
04-05-2012, 06:07 PM
Armenians are not even European and they know everything the best and what Europeans should like and dislike.

I really want to crush these Armenians for their disrespect but it is not worth it. the best punishment for Armenians is time. Armenia is an isolated country, all their neighbors hate Armenia and that is why the borders are closed and should be closed for ever until their hatred dies with them.

Guess we have another Turkish troll on our hands. Border is closed by Turkey illegally (though maybe a good thing given how they wanted to do it last time) and closed by Azerbaijan for obvious reasons. Our borders with Georgia and Iran are fully open and trade is increasing between both sides. Oh and you also have this:


"When I was in Baku recently, they showed me a 3-D topographic map of Armenia, AZ [Azerbaijan], Nagorno [Karabakh]," the Czech related. "You can see very clearly that once (and if) the Armenians cross over with Russian backing, it is a flat path to Baku. The Russians told them during the Georgia war that Georgia could just be the first stop... pretty direct threat. The Azerbaijanis are terrified of this."

From wikileaks cable.

Armenians aren't going anywhere and rather Armenian nation is becoming stronger.


You know.. if that is true for Europeans then this is ridiculous.

I dont see what makes Germans, Brits, Russians different from Turks. They have all played a big part in destroying other cultures. Since I am unaware of Turkish history I am inclined to say Europeans have done that a lot more than they have.

Why should I hate Turks just because some Western Euros think they are the enemy? They dont hate my enemies.

I'm just saying how it is. Turks have a very bad reputation in Europe. Yeah everybody has blood on their hands. Though Turks often think they are angels and don't have any blood on their hands.

Mosov
04-05-2012, 06:08 PM
I think Xaxa = Bozkurt

Talvi
04-05-2012, 06:15 PM
I'm just saying how it is. Turks have a very bad reputation in Europe. Yeah everybody has blood on their hands. Though Turks often think they are angels and don't have any blood on their hands.

There are many nations with no blood on their hands.


But what is staring to really annoy is how some "Big Euros" are dictating over everyone what Europe is and what Europeans like or dont like or who they hate.

People in Estonia are also highly suspicious of muslims although we barely have any. In reality there is no difference between someone who is a non-practising muslim or a non-practising christian. Yet we are adopting the fears of the big euros.

Mosov
04-05-2012, 06:19 PM
There are many nations with no blood on their hands.


But what is staring to really annoy is how some "Big Euros" are dictating over everyone what Europe is and what Europeans like or dont like or who they hate.

People in Estonia are also highly suspicious of muslims although we barely have any. In reality there is no difference between someone who is a non-practicing muslim or a non-practicing christian. Yet we are adopting the fears of the big euros.

Are you saying Turks don't have blood on their hands?? LOL

Well I understand you like Turks very much as your boyfriend is Turkish, but don't shoot the messenger here. Anti-Turkish sentiment has been present in many societies, especially ones that have had contact with the Turks. This negative sentiment is increasing with increased Turkish immigration in Europe. Just ask Leliana. It's not for no reason that the term 'Turk' is considered an insult in several cultures.

Sturmgewehr
04-05-2012, 06:20 PM
Closer to Europeans obviously, Turks that we know Today are a mish mash of every Ancient Migration, empires and civilizations that thrived in that region, Turks obviously share a lot with especially South East Europeans due to the Neolithic Migrations then of course it has been the abode of Roman empire and Byzantine Empire, population from the Balkans used to trade with whoever lived there before the Seljuks occupied it but even during the Ottoman empire there were big waves of Albanians, Bosniaks and Pomaks who moved to Anatolia, hence they share a close genetic Affinity with Europeans.

Talvi
04-05-2012, 06:28 PM
Are you saying Turks don't have blood on their hands?? LOL

Well I understand you like Turks very much as your boyfriend is Turkish, but don't shoot the messenger here. Anti-Turkish sentiment has been present in many societies, especially ones that have had contact with the Turks. This negative sentiment is increasing with increased Turkish immigration in Europe. Just ask Leliana. It's not for no reason that the term 'Turk' is considered an insult in several cultures.

Where exactly have I said that Turks have no bloods on their hands???

And sorry but I find Leliana to be brainless. And apparently you didnt understand a word I wrote.

Mosov
04-05-2012, 06:39 PM
Where exactly have I said that Turks have no bloods on their hands???

And sorry but I find Leliana to be brainless. And apparently you didnt understand a word I wrote.

You are entitled to your own opinion, and you can think Turks are angels or whatever. It just doesn't change the fact that Turks have a bad reputation in European society. There are no "big Euros" dictating what you should think or what Europe is, it's just societal/historical trends that have led to such sentiment regarding Turks. Maybe if your country had a large Turkish population or your country had had some historical contact with the Turks, the sentiment in your society would be much different.

xaxa
04-05-2012, 06:40 PM
I like Talvi :D

Please don't bother with these armenians. They want to dictate their vision on everybody. It will never work.

Armenians killed a lot of Azeri and Turks. We will never forget that and when the time comes we will take revenge. ( soon azeri land will be returned)

There is not one muslim living in Armenia but there are Armenians living in Turkey. This says enough I think.

Hess
04-05-2012, 06:44 PM
People in Estonia are also highly suspicious of muslims although we barely have any

Good, I can only hope that it stays that way.


In reality there is no difference between someone who is a non-practising muslim or a non-practising christian

There is a huge difference. Non-Practicing Muslims are still part of Islamic, Eastern Culture the same way that Non Practicing Christian Europeans are still heavily influenced by Christianity (European Culture)

Mosov
04-05-2012, 06:51 PM
I like Talvi :D

Please don't bother with these armenians. They want to dictate their vision on everybody. It will never work.

Armenians killed a lot of Azeri and Turks. We will never forget that and when the time comes we will take revenge. ( soon azeri land will be returned)

There is not one muslim living in Armenia but there are Armenians living in Turkey. This says enough I think.

lol, so we dictated for Turks to have bad reputation in Europe?? hahaha

yeah, we killed so many Turks that's why there are no Armenians left in Western Armenia, while many Kurds and Turks live in those areas......good luck on your "revenge", my quote that I showed you Bozkurt shows that Azerbaijan is shitting its pants thinking about what kind of retaliation we along with our allies might serve the Azeris if they dare to attack us.

Sikeliot
04-05-2012, 06:52 PM
Turks are closer, minus religion, to the Balkans than to Arabs.

Talvi
04-05-2012, 06:52 PM
You are entitled to your own opinion, and you can think Turks are angels or whatever. It just doesn't change the fact that Turks have a bad reputation in European society. There are no "big Euros" dictating what you should think or what Europe is, it's just societal/historical trends that have led to such sentiment regarding Turks. Maybe if your country had a large Turkish population or your country had had some historical contact with the Turks, the sentiment in your society would be much different.

There are big euros who are dictating everyone. How can it be a historical trend for Estonians, Latvians, Finns or Iclanders for example to hate turks when they have never even seen one? Neithher have their parents or grandparents and etc.

There is no one history of Europe, no one society. Yet somehow if I want to be a real euro I have to hate turks, muslims and be a christian?? If this is not the influence of "big euros" where does that come from?? Because it sure isnt a historical trend all over Europe.

xaxa
04-05-2012, 06:57 PM
lol, so we dictated for Turks to have bad reputation in Europe?? hahaha

yeah, we killed so many Turks that's why there are no Armenians left in Western Armenia, while many Kurds and Turks live in those areas......good luck on your "revenge", my quote that I showed you Bozkurt shows that Azerbaijan is shitting its pants thinking about what kind of retaliation we along with our allies might serve the Azeris if they dare to attack us.

There are still Armenians living in Turkey. Only the ones who didn't betray us. Deportation is legal in this case. There is nothing you can do.

Why is there not one muslim living in Armenia?

Nobody cares about Armenians. Turks have better relationship with Russia than Armenia hahaha. We have the money and contracts with them you don't have anything. Armenians are suffering day in day out of poverty. I heard it myself and their economy speaks for itself. Soon Russia will ditch Armenia any way to have better relationship with Turks. There are huge projects going on in terms of energy and trading. What is happening with Armenia's future? Nothing!

Mosov
04-05-2012, 07:10 PM
There are big euros who are dictating everyone. How can it be a historical trend for Estonians, Latvians, Finns or Iclanders for example to hate turks when they have never even seen one? Neithher have their parents or grandparents and etc.

There is no one history of Europe, no one society. Yet somehow if I want to be a real euro I have to hate turks, muslims and be a christian?? If this is not the influence of "big euros" where does that come from?? Because it sure isnt a historical trend all over Europe.

Stop making up things I never said. I told you specifically that European societies that have had historic contact with Turks or contact via immigration have a bad view of them. This would further impact reputation of Turks in countries with less contact. I guess you have to have a history with those people to understand the true nature of them.


There are still Armenians living in Turkey. Only the ones who didn't betray us. Deportation is legal in this case. There is nothing you can do.

Why is there not one muslim living in Armenia?

Nobody cares about Armenians. Turks have better relationship with Russia than Armenia hahaha. We have the money and contracts with them you don't have anything. Armenians are suffering day in day out of poverty. I heard it myself and their economy speaks for itself. Soon Russia will ditch Armenia any way to have better relationship with Turks. There are huge projects going on in terms of energy and trading. What is happening with Armenia's future? Nothing!

Sure deport them. They are traitors for stepping foot in Turkey. They should come to Armenia and get adequate punishment.

Turks bow down to Zionist/NATO wishes. They even agreed to NATO shield against Iran, how much Zionists give you for that? lol Armenia and Russia are long term historical allies, Russians don't like Turks very much, their relationship with you is for economic purposes. There are several economic projects going on with Armenia like gas/oil projects with Iran, business projects with Russia, business with EU, and so forth. Armenia is advancing, we even have higher Human Development Index than Turkey lol

Hess
04-05-2012, 07:12 PM
Turks have better relationship with Russia than Armenia hahaha.

Turks as a people or Turkey as a country? Because I can't think of a single Russian that likes Turks, but I can think of quite a few that like Armenians.


I personally don't like either, BTW

xaxa
04-05-2012, 07:16 PM
Armenia is not going anywhere. It has the second WORSE economy of the world. And I'm not seeing anything changing with their neighbors. All your neighbors hate your guts. As I said Turkey's relationship with Russia is better than Armenia's. Russians don't like Armenians that much actually. They see you as scum and as a burden. Soon they will ditch you. Russia is not getting anything from relationship with Armenians.

Turkey's image is getting better everywhere. Turks earned peoples respect. Armenia is loosing the battle on every level. Economic, moral and academic/political

Talvi
04-05-2012, 07:18 PM
There is a huge difference. Non-Practicing Muslims are still part of Islamic, Eastern Culture the same way that Non Practicing Christian Europeans are still heavily influenced by Christianity (European Culture)

No. That has no importance.
As an atheist I see them both as harmless (as opposed to radical islam or christianity, the latter of which I can say my country has actually witnessed) and a little bit dumb.

Hayalet
04-05-2012, 07:19 PM
@Mosov, why do you keep discussing with xaxa if you think he is the same person as Bozkurt Karabash?

Mosov
04-05-2012, 07:22 PM
Armenia is not going anywhere. It has the second WORSE economy of the world. And I'm not seeing anything changing with their neighbors. All your neighbors hate your guts. As I said Turkey's relationship with Russia is better than Armenia's. Russians don't like Armenians that much actually. They see you as scum and as a burden. Soon they will ditch you. Russia is not getting anything from relationship with Armenians.

Turkey's image is getting better everywhere. Armenia is loosing the battle on every level. Economic, moral and academic/political
So all your economic decisions are made by a bs forbes assement? lol even Ukraine was in that list....
Turkey's relationship with Russia is much better than Russian-Armenian alliance??? hahaha you are funny....

It's good to see you know nothing about Russian-Armenian relationship. Keep up your clueless rants.

and long live Armenian-Russian alliance!

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_d0Rtb4UplLU/THpO38V61DI/AAAAAAAAAOY/0UrfUZFeSbY/s1600/Armenia_russia.jpg

http://gdb.rferl.org/E57A31CF-6590-4030-9FEB-CA6E5BF76A93_mw800_mh600.jpg

http://www.mediamax.am/datas/znews/big_3d2fcecf456b82842308ab2d9f276dcf.jpg

Mosov
04-05-2012, 07:23 PM
@Mosov, why do you keep discussing with xaxa if you think he is the same person as Bozkurt Karabash?

Good question.....

xaxa
04-05-2012, 07:26 PM
"the fact of strengthening of Russian activities towards Turkey, deepened fear and phobia among certain Armenian political circles - would Russia have an attempt to "exchange" Karabakh for recognition of independence of Abkhazia and Tskhinvali region. At the same time, Russian-Turkish relations significantly improved upon the negative background of relations with the USA on the one hand and European Union on the other hand. Probably it will be fair to blame Armenia in irrational attitude towards Turkey and possible Russian-Turkish relations. But in order to correctly look into politics that Russia implements in Caucasus, it is necessary to take into consideration the objective fact of dexterity of perception. What is the essential element of Moscow's foreign-political PR (for example, Sergei Lavrov's theses about speeding of regulation of conflict resolution in Karabakh), looks like serious challenge for Yerevan (due to its complicated geographical-geopolitical position)."

xaxa
04-05-2012, 07:27 PM
The time is coming soon, sticking your ignorant head in the ground is only making it more painful.

Trun
04-05-2012, 07:27 PM
Turkey is a country big and diverse enough both in genetic, phenotypical, political, cultural and even mental structure to be spearate both from Europeans and Arabs. Moreover, Turks don't tend to identify with both of the groups. So my vote goes for "none".

I don't know much about relations between Russia and Armenia, but Armenia definitely has much more positive image than Turkey in a list of countries in the EU, especially France, maybe the country that is a driving force in the foreign relations of the whole union.

Europe just do not want Islam in the EU. The fact that worries is the possible Turkish interest in winning position in countries where the Turkish minority is significant. However, this strategy should be dodged from afar and Turkey should receive no piece of the European pie especially in a ways than are not tolerant to the European nations to which Turkish interests are a threat.

Mosov
04-05-2012, 07:32 PM
"the fact of strengthening of Russian activities towards Turkey, deepened fear and phobia among certain Armenian political circles - would Russia have an attempt to "exchange" Karabakh for recognition of independence of Abkhazia and Tskhinvali region. At the same time, Russian-Turkish relations significantly improved upon the negative background of relations with the USA on the one hand and European Union on the other hand. Probably it will be fair to blame Armenia in irrational attitude towards Turkey and possible Russian-Turkish relations. But in order to correctly look into politics that Russia implements in Caucasus, it is necessary to take into consideration the objective fact of dexterity of perception. What is the essential element of Moscow's foreign-political PR (for example, Sergei Lavrov's theses about speeding of regulation of conflict resolution in Karabakh), looks like serious challenge for Yerevan (due to its complicated geographical-geopolitical position)."


The time is coming soon, sticking your ignorant head in the ground is only making it more painful.

Bozkurt, I'm not going to waste my breath on you. I'll just wait till your banned for making a duplicate account.

Trun
04-05-2012, 07:34 PM
Bozkurt, I'm not going to waste my breath on you. I'll just wait till your banned for making a duplicate account.

It's even more ridicolous from his side to defend Turkey so much since he is not Turkish himself and has no connection with Turkey.

Mosov
04-05-2012, 07:36 PM
It's even more ridicolous from his side to defend Turkey so much since he is not Turkish himself and has no connection with Turkey.

He's just a well versed troll, what can I say.

xaxa
04-05-2012, 07:39 PM
This is the first time I joined this forum.

xaxa
04-05-2012, 07:43 PM
Mosov time is ticking! This is my last word to you. I'm not going to waste more time on you since you proven yourself to know nothing about the relationships between the countries that was mentioned former.

Mosov
04-05-2012, 07:46 PM
Mosov time is ticking! This is my last word to you. I'm not going to waste more time on you since you proven yourself to know nothing about the relationships between the countries that was mentioned former.

Yeah, time is ticking till you get banned.

xaxa
04-05-2012, 07:48 PM
For what?

Trun
04-05-2012, 07:48 PM
Mosov time is ticking! This is my last word to you. I'm not going to waste more time on you since you proven yourself to know nothing about the relationships between the countries that was mentioned former.

Turkey is on good terms with USA and Israel. Enough for you to don't fear anyone and do whatever you want (Cyprus invasion is a prefect example).

Mosov
04-05-2012, 07:50 PM
For what?

don't play dumb with me.

xaxa
04-05-2012, 07:51 PM
I'm starting to think Mosov is a troll.

Trun
04-05-2012, 07:54 PM
I'm starting to think Mosov is a troll.

I usually don't take sides but judging by the number and the quality of posts he has made in this forum and the number and the quality of posts you have made, if one of you two is a troll, it's much more likely this one to be you.

ZephyrousMandaru
04-05-2012, 08:01 PM
Turks are still closer to Europeans than to Levantines. The Druze are quite distant to Turks and other West Asians, them alongside the Samaritans. So the answer would be the same in regards to other Levantine groups, the exception would be some Assyrians who might be present, but in general the answer would be no.

Assyrians are even less Southern European in appearance than some Levantine populations, such as the Lebanese. Druze and Assyrians are quite close, the only difference is that the Druze have a slightly higher "Mediterranean" component.

xaxa
04-05-2012, 08:03 PM
I usually don't take sides but judging by the number and the quality of posts he has made in this forum and the number and the quality of posts you have made, if one of you two is a troll, it's much more likely this one to be you.

Country: Bulgaria

Enough said.

I don't find his post adding any value. Mostly hate posts against Turks. Of course you like that.

Trun
04-05-2012, 08:11 PM
Country: Bulgaria

Enough said.

I don't find his post adding any value. Mostly hate posts against Turks. Of course you like that.

I don't think it's our fault why we dislike Turkey. Forget past, I'm talking about present. Ethnic political party who gains supporters from Turks with double citizenship living in Turkey is quite an important fact to be left without attention.

ZephyrousMandaru
04-05-2012, 08:13 PM
The problem is that SWA people absorbed proto-east african alleles during their southward expansion. Being able to distinguish neolitich SWA admixture (pure caucasoid) from Arabian SWA admixture (semi-caucasoid) is very important.

Wait, wait. What? So the Southwest Asian component can be subdivided into two separate, subcomponents? This is important for me to know. I'm almost 20% Southwest Asian.

Leliana
04-05-2012, 08:20 PM
Ruled or occupied same thing, fact is we ruled parts of Europe, Middle East and Africa for 600 years. The Ottoman Empire is in the list of one of the greatest Empires in history.
Your Ottomans were ruling over people and tribes who weren't very advanced by cultural and technological standards. What a great achievement! :rolleyes: The fact stands that when the Ottomans tried to mess with European high cultures like the Holy Roman Empire composed of Austrians and Germans and with other states like the Venecians or the Poles, your Ottoman horde was without a chance at land and at the sea. It's not only about the battles of Vienna and the subsequent liberation of the Balkans. Remember the sea battle at Lepanto where the Holy League let your people look like a kindergarten?

We literally shattered Ottoman megalomania into pieces and it was the beginning of the end of Ottoman rule on European soil. You can relish to the virtuality that your Turkish horde ruled over hardly noteworthy desert tribes and camel dwellers but that's nothing impressive at all.



I dont see what makes Germans, Brits, Russians different from Turks. They have all played a big part in destroying other cultures. Since I am unaware of Turkish history I am inclined to say Europeans have done that a lot more than they have.
You are not only unware of Turkish history but unaware and ignorant of lots of other important events. :(

Why should I hate Turks just because some Western Euros think they are the enemy? They dont hate my enemies.
You try to sugarcoat the shame and disgrace that you have a Turkish boyfriend. It can explained psychologically.


And sorry but I find Leliana to be brainless. And apparently you didnt understand a word I wrote.
You think I'm brainless when I'm well-briefed about European history? My literacy annoys you, now I understand. :)

The only one who's brainless here is the Estonian user named 'Talvi' who degrades herself and disgraces her compatriots by mating with Turks, by mating with Muslims and extra-Europeans. Has all the shisha smoking fogged your senses? Please don't answer, it's a rhetoric question.

xaxa
04-05-2012, 08:22 PM
Leliana=biggest troll ever

Your racism is baseless and disgusting.

First the jews, now the turks, huh?

Trun
04-05-2012, 08:23 PM
Your Ottomans were ruling over people and tribes who weren't very advanced by cultural and technological standards.

Just to bring a correction: When plague was devastating Western Europe, Bulgaria and Byzantine together with Italy had pre-Reneisance. So, we were culturally and technologically advanced. We were just divided by internal conflicts. If we were all united and Europe had helped us (because we are less in number than Ottomans and at that time it was the most important factor in a war), Ottomans standed no chance against Christian soldiers.

Styggnacke
04-05-2012, 08:23 PM
Western Turks are closer to Europeans than Arabs (Kurdish Eastern Turkey is a different story, though). I don't have any issues with Turks really, there are not that many of them here and their country is nice.

lepa
04-05-2012, 08:26 PM
I don't hate turks at all, but trolls like xaxa are intolerable.

xaxa
04-05-2012, 08:28 PM
I don't hate turks at all, but trolls like xaxa are intolerable.

I guess when a Bulgarian bashes a Turk it is not a troll but when a Turk bashes a racist it is intolerable.

Thank you for explaining your position.

I have the right to defend myself against racist and haters.

Mosov
04-05-2012, 08:29 PM
I guess when a Bulgarian bashes a Turk it is not a troll but when a Turk bashes a racist it is intolerable.

Thank you for explaining your position.

I have the right to defend myself against racist and haters.

Stop crying. You've already seriously derailed this thread with your BS.

xaxa
04-05-2012, 08:31 PM
I think everybody agrees with me, including the admins that the Armenians are the ones who derail every post that has to do with Turks.

What a hateful people you are :D I hope you live in this misery for ever.

lepa
04-05-2012, 08:33 PM
I guess when a Bulgarian bashes a Turk it is not a troll but when a Turk bashes a racist it is intolerable.

Thank you for explaining your position.

I have the right to talk nonsense against racist and haters.

Fixed. :coffee:

Leliana
04-05-2012, 08:40 PM
Just to bring a correction: When plague was devastating Western Europe, Bulgaria and Byzantine together with Italy had pre-Reneisance. So, we were culturally and technologically advanced. We were just divided by internal conflicts.
Hello feuerfrei. :) I know and I'm not talking about the European tribes who were occupied by the Ottomans, you were divided and that difficulty made you weak and vulnerable for Ottoman expansion. It's the everlasting burden of the Balkan to be divided.

But your cultures were advanced and not comparable to desert dwellers, that doesn't stand to debate and I'm sorry for not being precise enough in my former post. Some Balkan people like most Albanians and the Bosnians adopted Ottoman culture but that's an other topic, a deplorable one. :(

xaxa
04-05-2012, 08:50 PM
I like Bosnians and Albanians. They will have my support unconditionally.

Talvi
04-05-2012, 08:57 PM
You try to sugarcoat the shame and disgrace that you have a Turkish boyfriend. It can explained psychologically.

You think I'm brainless when I'm well-briefed about European history? My literacy annoys you, now I understand. :)

The only one who's brainless here is the Estonian user named 'Talvi' who degrades herself and disgraces her compatriots by mating with Turks, by mating with Muslims and extra-Europeans. Has all the shisha smoking fogged your senses? Please don't answer, it's a rhetoric question.

mmmm no.

And Ive never mated with a muslim either.

But I do think that you have an irrational fear and you are an extremist. And no extremist really has a clear view of anything.


Extremism and irrational fears can also be explained psychologically.

lepa
04-05-2012, 08:58 PM
I like Bosnians and Albanians. They will have my support unconditionally.

Why you don't like bulgarians?! :eek: According to one turk here, bulgarians are christian turks, lol.

bimo
04-05-2012, 09:05 PM
Why you don't like bulgarians?! :eek: According to one turk here, bulgarians are christian turks, lol.

according to many turks , alll people from balkan and mediterranean are turks

Mosov
04-05-2012, 09:10 PM
according to many turks , alll people from balkan and mediterranean are turks

hahahaha

Nabatea1
04-05-2012, 09:10 PM
Your Ottomans were ruling over people and tribes who weren't very advanced by cultural and technological standards. What a great achievement! :rolleyes: The fact stands that when the Ottomans tried to mess with European high cultures like the Holy Roman Empire composed of Austrians and Germans and with other states like the Venecians or the Poles, your Ottoman horde was without a chance at land and at the sea. It's not only about the battles of Vienna and the subsequent liberation of the Balkans. Remember the sea battle at Lepanto where the Holy League let your people look like a kindergarten?

The same can be said about the European empires. The British empire for example expanded into North America and Oceania with people who were primtive in techonological or "cultural" attributes. They tried to conquer the less advanced Afghanistan only to suffer a humiliation during the height of their empire. The Spanish and the list goes on lol.

hajduk
04-05-2012, 09:12 PM
according to many turks , alll people from balkan and mediterranean are turks

This lopa is very dumb girl, anyway probably the turk poster means the ancient bulgars ( who were iranic not turkic) There is such propaganda in Turkey to present themselves as typical and not foreigner in Balkans and to conquire our lands again.

Hayalet
04-05-2012, 09:20 PM
Your Ottomans were ruling over people and tribes who weren't very advanced by cultural and technological standards. What a great achievement! :rolleyes:
Are you really talking about Byzantines? Which is, of course, a neologism as it was called Roman Empire at its time. You know, the pinnacle of European civilization. ;)


It's not only about the battles of Vienna and the subsequent liberation of the Balkans.
Subsequent, having the meaning of 150 years later? Not to mention another 150 years in between the two battles of Vienna.

Hayalet
04-05-2012, 09:34 PM
Btw, while he is a total noob in these fora, it seems xaxa is indeed a Turk. I'm sorry if I have misled anyone.

Hess
04-05-2012, 09:57 PM
No. That has no importance.
As an atheist I see them both as harmless (as opposed to radical islam or christianity, the latter of which I can say my country has actually witnessed) and a little bit dumb.

My argument is that even as a European Atheist, your mannerisms, mentality, and culture have been greatly influenced by Christianity.

You may choose not to be a Christian, but that hardly impacts the profound effect that Christianity has had on all European Countries, including Estonia.

Hess
04-05-2012, 10:00 PM
This lopa is very dumb girl, anyway probably the turk poster means the ancient bulgars ( who were iranic not turkic) There is such propaganda in Turkey to present themselves as typical and not foreigner in Balkans and to conquire our lands again.

Exactly.

We need to always be vigilant against Turkish Encroachment. They've done it numerous times in the past (even getting as far as Vienna once) and they'll do it again given the chance.

Onur
04-05-2012, 10:11 PM
Europeans just don't like Turks. Reputation of Turks in Europe has never been high either. And even if it was a long time ago, the battle of Vienna and how Turks tried to take over Europe is still etched in peoples' minds.
I noticed that you keep repeating this sentence once a week here.

Most of the Turkish people doesn't care about whether the so-called Europeans [who the fck they are? Europe is a single nation?] love us or not. We are not like Greece who are destined to get their salaries from their masters in Brussels, Germany OR we are not like Armenia whose nation founded by the grace of 3rd parties and we don't have masters in mother Russia unlike you.

We simply don't care! Turkey doesn't need anyone`s grace. We never needed that throughout more than millennium long history. This is a concern which belongs to petty countries like your Armenia, not our`s.


^^You think that if your ancestors could do that, they wouldn't have done it? :rolleyes2: They also tried to convert us all to Islam but luckily they didn't succeed. I thank God for giving my ancestors a strong will and faith not to fall under the pressure of the Muslim invaders
Ohh yes, we ruled you for ~500 years and we tried to convert you to islam sooo badly but we failed because your ancestors had even more faith to Jesus than the 12 disciples and God protected you against us, right?

You may continue to believe this nonsense but pls do not try to relate this supposedly as the truth.

Macedonia became part of Ottoman empire in 14th century. If Turks would have wanted to, we could have wipe your existence from earth OR if we would do as catholics did, we could burn you all alive on stakes.

If you are still Macedonian, Albanian, Greek or whatever and if you are still able to speak your own language today, it`s because Ottoman empire allowed you to be, otherwise who could have stop us from killing you or convert you all to islam in 14th century? UN, EU courts of human rights, NATO, International court of crime in Holland??? Who?

If Turks would have taken catholics of Europe as an example, you all Balkan christians would be in Mecca now praying to Allah. Just do the math, CIA backed Wahhabis converted more European christians to islam in just few decades than Turks ever did in ~500 years.


Closer to Europeans obviously, Turks that we know Today are a mish mash of every Ancient Migration, empires and civilizations that thrived in that region, Turks obviously share a lot with especially South East Europeans due to the Neolithic Migrations then of course it has been the abode of Roman empire and Byzantine Empire, population from the Balkans used to trade with whoever lived there before the Seljuks occupied it but even during the Ottoman empire there were big waves of Albanians, Bosniaks and Pomaks who moved to Anatolia, hence they share a close genetic Affinity with Europeans.
And is this different for other nations?

You Albanians are supposedly the pure blood ancient illyrians in the deepest depths of Balkan mess but we are bunch of mixed people in Turkey?


Where exactly have I said that Turks have no bloods on their hands???
I see that you have close to 1500 posts here. So, you should have already realized by now that for Armenians, there is no gray side or neutrality. If you don't hate from Turks by guts and if your hate doesn't flow through your brain everyday, then you can only be a Turkophil traitor among Europeans.

brunette
04-05-2012, 10:23 PM
Plus one for the Anti Alb comment. Albanians...once from the Caucasus pinched most of Kosovo then collaborated with the ''Nazis'' ala Handzar finally being Pro Nato.

dralos
04-05-2012, 10:24 PM
Plus one for the Anti Alb comment. Albanians...once from the Caucasus pinched most of Kosovo then collaborated with the ''Nazis'' ala Handzar finally being Pro Nato.
look who's talking the caucasusoid herself:D

Pallantides
04-05-2012, 10:27 PM
It depends on which Europeans.

Solin
04-05-2012, 10:29 PM
--

brunette
04-05-2012, 10:35 PM
It depends on which Europeans.

Yes it does. South and South Eastern Europeans They're the most ''Neolithic''.

Queen B
04-05-2012, 10:37 PM
I noticed that you keep repeating this sentence once a week here.

Most of the Turkish people doesn't care about whether the so-called Europeans [who the fck they are? Europe is a single nation?] love us or not. We are not like Greece who are destined to get their salaries from their masters in Brussels, Germany OR we are not like Armenia whose nation founded by the grace of 3rd parties and we don't have masters in mother Russia unlike you.



Seriously, your obsession with Greeks, is getting out of control. Can't you post in one single thread without mentioning them ? Get over it already

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

brunette
04-05-2012, 10:42 PM
Yes but he says he's a Macedonian if he has Thracian ancestry he's partly Greek lol.

Sturmgewehr
04-05-2012, 11:19 PM
And is this different for other nations?

You Albanians are supposedly the pure blood ancient illyrians in the deepest depths of Balkan mess but we are bunch of mixed people in Turkey?


Where did I claim we are the purest illyrians or crap like that ????

Rron
04-05-2012, 11:59 PM
You Albanians are supposedly the pure blood ancient illyrians in the deepest depths of Balkan mess but we are bunch of mixed people in Turkey?
Yes

Mosov
04-06-2012, 01:39 AM
I noticed that you keep repeating this sentence once a week here.

Most of the Turkish people doesn't care about whether the so-called Europeans [who the fck they are? Europe is a single nation?] love us or not. We are not like Greece who are destined to get their salaries from their masters in Brussels, Germany OR we are not like Armenia whose nation founded by the grace of 3rd parties and we don't have masters in mother Russia unlike you.

We simply don't care! Turkey doesn't need anyone`s grace. We never needed that throughout more than millennium long history. This is a concern which belongs to petty countries like your Armenia, not our`s.


Well given this is a European Preservation forum don't be surprised if that line is repeated lol.

And please don't lecture me with your propaganda on my country, you're just wasting your time. I'll take a shit on Turkish propaganda let alone read it.

RussiaPrussia
04-06-2012, 01:45 AM
turks are turks obviously they shouldnt be mixed up with arabs as arabian is a semitic language while turkish is a turk language similar to central asian languages or other languages spoken by russian minorities like chuvans. The same it goes to the iran even more extreme as they have an own shia islam and speaking persian which is part of indo european language.

But turkey shouldnt be counted as european either. I think turks are laing to them selfs if they see a future in europe, they would far better off without europe look how long they are waiting. Russia is much more free and prosperous now deciding from the beginning they wont join the eu in the near future. they are winning new friends making their own realm of influence and their own domestic politics while turkey has always to watch their back if they might broke the eu laws or anything to imply for membership hurting their overall economic and regional development.

Prince Carlo
04-06-2012, 09:48 AM
Yes it does. South and South Eastern Europeans They're the most ''Neolithic''.

Neolitich admixture in Europe (last K12b run).

South Italy : 49.0
Sicilian : 48.4
Greece : 47.5
Central Italy: 40.8
Tuscan : 37.7
Bulgarians : 36.5
Romanian : 34.3
North Italy : 28.4
Ukraine : 19.4
Hungarians : 19.2
Belorussian : 15.2
Polish : 14.4
Russian : 13.1
Spain: 12.8
German : 11.5
French : 10.6
Basques : 0.0

Kanuni
04-06-2012, 09:58 AM
And is this different for other nations?

You Albanians are supposedly the pure blood ancient illyrians in the deepest depths of Balkan mess but we are bunch of mixed people in Turkey?


That is a bad comparasion to say the least,because the definition of Turkish identity is a bit different from being Albanian,but anyway you are a Balkan Slav genetically i cannot understand your reaction.:confused2:

Anyway Turks are mostly Anatolian with some slightly Central Asian>Caucasus>Balkan influences.

And yes Albanians are mostly Illyrian by origin or to put it with other words mostly Paleo-Balkan/PIE with some Indo-European influences, by invaders who brought the language and assimilated the natives.

Azalea
04-06-2012, 11:05 AM
That is a bad comparasion to say the least,because the definition of Turkish identity is a bit different from being Albanian,but anyway you are a Balkan Slav genetically i cannot understand your reaction.:confused2:

How is it different?

And how do you know if he is a Balkan Slav genetically? Has he posted his DNA results in this forum?


Anyway Turks are mostly Anatolian with some slightly Central Asian>Caucasus>Balkan influences.

And Albanians are mostly Balkanites with some Indo-European influence.


And yes Albanians are mostly Illyrian by origin or to put it with other words mostly Paleo-Balkan/PIE with some Indo-European influences, by invaders who brought the language and assimilated the natives.

How do you know that you are of mostly Illyrian origin?

dralos
04-06-2012, 11:11 AM
How is it different?

And how do you know if he is a Balkan Slav genetically? Has he posted his DNA results in this forum?



And Albanians are mostly Balkanites with some Indo-European influence.



How do you know that you are of mostly Illyrian origin?
except from a dna wich ev13 wich is balkannative,albanians were known to not mix with the invaders,that's why there is a distinct look between us and southslavs

Azalea
04-06-2012, 11:17 AM
Your DNA is anything but pure. It's a mix of various haplogroups and autosomal components. So which one of the haplogroups your group carries is the Indo-European Albanian?

dralos
04-06-2012, 11:19 AM
Your DNA is anything but pure. It's a mix of various haplogroups and autosomal components. So which one of the haplogroups your group carries is the Indo-European Albanian?
our dna is mostly paleobalkanian,we look too balkanian
go see southslavs and aloboz we look very different,they look heavily slavic influenced while alboz totally lack that,we have just balkan influences
ev13 is balkan wich is dominant in all albanians especially those from kosova

Azalea
04-06-2012, 11:21 AM
our dna is mostly paleobalkanian,we look too balkanian
go see southslavs and aloboz we look very different,they look heavily slavic influenced while alboz totally lack that,we have just balkan influences
ev13 is balkan wich is dominant in all albanians especially those from kosova

I don't care about your looks, I care for your DNA.

dralos
04-06-2012, 11:23 AM
I don't care about your looks, I care for your DNA.
dna makes you look sweety and that proves we're totally balkanite with balkanian dna:D

dralos
04-06-2012, 11:25 AM
Balkan people are not even seen as real Europeans by west Europeans but that they have middle-eastern blood and are mud race. A little bit weird that they complain about other people..
nobody complaint about other people and southslavs are mixed while albanians aren't bcs in our culture it was foribidden to mix with other people outside of albanians

orangepulp
04-06-2012, 11:25 AM
dna makes you look sweety and that proves we're totally balkanite with balkanian dna:D

Yea and your looks aren't very alien to North Western Asia.

dralos
04-06-2012, 11:25 AM
Yea and your looks aren't very alien to North Western Asia.
LOL

Azalea
04-06-2012, 11:27 AM
Yea and your looks aren't very alien to North Western Asia.

True. I remember a few of my relatives getting classified as Albanian even though they are Anatolian Turkish genetically. How do you explain that, dralos?

dralos
04-06-2012, 11:30 AM
True. I remember a few of my relatives getting classified as Albanian even though they are Anatolian Turkish genetically. How do you explain that, dralos?
balkan influences,there are millions of alboz in turkey and other balkanites

Azalea
04-06-2012, 11:31 AM
balkan influences,there are millions of alboz in turkey and other balkanites

I already told you that there is no Balkan influence in my family. Genetics prove that.

The Lawspeaker
04-06-2012, 11:32 AM
Hmm... if there isn't a Balkan strain in the family (which could have been possible) then maybe the history behind it is older ? Anatolia once had a lot of Greeks.

Kanuni
04-06-2012, 11:33 AM
How is it different?

And how do you know if he is a Balkan Slav genetically? Has he posted his DNA results in this forum?


Because he is not Anatolian Turk but a Pomak(Muslim Bulgarian).


And Albanians are mostly Balkanites with some Indo-European influence.
How do you know that you are of mostly Illyrian origin?

We are not Illyrian we came with spaceships.

Azalea
04-06-2012, 11:34 AM
The Turks have been hanging around the Balkans for some time and I wouldn't be too surprised if had some of the same effects on Turks as hanging around Indonesia did for between 300.000 and 600.000 Dutch. It could mean that some of your family is simply the "Balkanian Turk" version of our Indo-Dutch. :)

Ofcourse. Balkan Turks have a lot of Balkan influence genetically. But this doesn't go for most Anatolian Turks.

Here is a thread I made about Balkan Turks. There is a clear Balkan influence. No doubt about that. But my family is from Turkey and I don't know of any Balkan ancestor nor does my DNA hint any Balkan ancestry.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42919

Azalea
04-06-2012, 11:35 AM
Because he is not Anatolian Turk but a Pomak(Muslim Bulgarian).

How do you know that? AFAIK Onur is a Turk from the Balkans. He hasn't mentioned anything about having Pomak ancestry?

The Lawspeaker
04-06-2012, 11:44 AM
I wonder what genetic tests have shown any Arab admixture in the Turks as for as far as I know everything points at Anatolia, Europe (the Balkans), the Southern Caucasus and to a lesser extent Central Asia.

Azalea
04-06-2012, 11:48 AM
I wonder what genetic tests have shown any Arab admixture in the Turks as for as far as I know everything points at Anatolia, Europe (the Balkans), the Southern Caucasus and to a lesser extent Central Asia.

It depends. Arab is a very broad term. But in general we don't show much Arab admix and the Southwest Asian admix in Turks (which is associated with Semitic speakers) is probably ancient rather than recent. Also, according to 23andme, Turks cluster closer to Europeans (even closer to Northern Europeans) than to Southern Arabs.

The Lawspeaker
04-06-2012, 11:55 AM
It depends. Arab is a very broad term. But in general we don't show much Arab admix and the Southwest Asian admix in Turks (which is associated with Semitic speakers) is probably ancient rather than recent. Also, according to 23andme, Turks cluster closer to Europeans (even closer to Northern Europeans) than to Southern Arabs.
I am not surprised at all because they have been hanging around Europe for quite some time and then we still have the Anatolian and Greek genetic legacy in many Turks.

Azalea
04-06-2012, 11:58 AM
I am not surprised at all because they have been hanging around Europe for quite some time and then we still have the Anatolian and Greek genetic legacy in many Turks.

But we aren't very European either (except for those from the Balkans). We form a seperate cluster apart from Middle Easterns and Europeans (together with Armenians, Georgians, Laz, Iranians, Anatolian Greeks and Assyrians partly). So we are closer to Europeans, but not European genetically. ;)

The Lawspeaker
04-06-2012, 11:59 AM
But we aren't very European either (except for those from the Balkans). We form a seperate cluster apart from Middle Easterns and Europeans. So we are closer to Europeans, but not European genetically. ;)
That's right. Turkey seems to have that little curse stamped on it both politically, geographically, culturally and genetically: Almost European.. just not completely. ;)

Azalea
04-06-2012, 12:00 PM
And we are perfectly fine with that. :D

Trun
04-06-2012, 12:14 PM
Balkan people are not even seen as real Europeans by west Europeans but that they have middle-eastern blood and are mud race. A little bit weird that they complain about other people..

We are the first Europeans, my dick aches what Westerners or Kebab eaters think of us...


nobody complaint about other people and southslavs are mixed while albanians aren't bcs in our culture it was foribidden to mix with other people outside of albanians

A bit of a trolling, don't you think?

riverman
04-06-2012, 12:22 PM
Some turks look a bit like Greeks and southeast Europeans, but there is crossover all over that region. Just look at the Greek threads or 'guess which' threads...Cypriots, etc, even mena, its difficult to tell alot of the time.

Unless no-one from those places are actually responding to those threads, in which case the answers are highly questionable.

Prince Carlo
04-06-2012, 12:25 PM
It depends. Arab is a very broad term. But in general we don't show much Arab admix and the Southwest Asian admix in Turks (which is associated with Semitic speakers) is probably ancient rather than recent.

if we assume the J-P58 subclade as marker of Arabic expansion, then there is some of it in Turkey.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_J1c3d_(Y-DNA)#Northern_Middle_East


Also, according to 23andme, Turks cluster closer to Europeans (even closer to Northern Europeans) than to Southern Arabs.

23andme lacks West Asian reference reference groups btw.

Azalea
04-06-2012, 12:28 PM
if we assume the J-P58 subclade as marker of Arabic expansion, then there is some of it in Turkey.


1. I didn't deny any Arab infuence in Turkey. 2 J-P58 is associated with Semitics, not with Arabs perse.




23andme lacks West Asian reference reference groups btw.

Thanks. I didn't know that.

:rolleyes2:

Sturmgewehr
04-06-2012, 12:29 PM
You should start by looking at yourself and what language you use. I'm atleast more polite than you. You think you are something important because you are backed up by some racist buddies. Let me tell you this. I don't give a damn. You guys are talking non-sense that Turks aren't real and this and when I say Albanians are real Albanians either. You all got offended and butt-hurt.

Excuse me ???

I don't know about you but I went to a Turkish high school for 4 years, I am very good at Turkish Kardeshim, I don't hate Turks neither do I hate anyone else based on their national or Racial background, I never said Turks are not real, I think you must be tripping balls right now, you also ought to read my original opinion on this topic, go back a couple of pages and u will see.

I am ready to bet you anything that I am one of the most open minded people on this forum.

It is you who is talking unsubstantiated nonsense over here.

You should also check threads where I stood behind reason and reasonable argument and defended Turkish members over here.

Yapma boyle dostum :)

Queen B
04-06-2012, 12:36 PM
Some turks look a bit like Greeks and southeast Europeans, but there is crossover all over that region. Just look at the Greek threads or 'guess which' threads...Cypriots, etc, even mena, its difficult to tell alot of the time.

Unless no-one from those places are actually responding to those threads, in which case the answers are highly questionable.

Τhey are not difficult to tell. I can spot the Greeks very easy.

dralos
04-06-2012, 12:42 PM
We are the first Europeans, my dick aches what Westerners or Kebab eaters think of us...



A bit of a trolling, don't you think?
feuerfei by that i didn't mean mixed with noneuropeans i meant you guys are much more euromixed like with other southslavs while we aren't

The Lawspeaker
04-06-2012, 04:30 PM
This thread is now reopened. Please stay on-topic.

ikki
04-06-2012, 05:33 PM
turks are closer to chinks.. thats where they came from ya know.

Trun
04-06-2012, 05:47 PM
I think this thread started by a troll has no meaning to continue further, genetically they are closer to Europeans than to Arabs.

Does this thread take only genetics into consideration? If yes, then there is no doubt.

The Lawspeaker
04-06-2012, 05:55 PM
Please carry on, ladies and gentlemen and no more off-topic.

Onur
04-06-2012, 06:59 PM
How do you know that? AFAIK Onur is a Turk from the Balkans. He hasn't mentioned anything about having Pomak ancestry?
Don't mind about them Türkü.

I just posted my photo for classification and apparently i was "too white" comparing to their stupid Turkish stereotype. So, they keep repeating that i should be Bulgarian and i cannot be a Turk.

I am a Turk and my family have nothing to do with Pomaks.

hajduk
04-06-2012, 07:54 PM
Don't mind about them Türkü.

I just posted my photo for classification and apparently i was "too white" comparing to their stupid Turkish stereotype. So, they keep repeating that i should be Bulgarian and i cannot be a Turk.

I am a Turk and my family have nothing to do with Pomaks.

Stop trolling us. You left the country, you can't speak the language? What more do you want? Aren't you the guy who said Petrich is not bulgarian town? Then what it is? Turkish?

Loki
04-06-2012, 07:58 PM
turks are closer to chinks.. thats where they came from ya know.

Do you know anything about genetics, and the intricate history of Anatolia?

Pallantides
04-06-2012, 07:59 PM
Do you know anything about genetics, and the intricate history of Anatolia?

I'm going to be a devils advocate here and say that Finns and Turks have about the same amount of Eurasian admixture on average.

Nabatea1
04-06-2012, 09:29 PM
I wonder what genetic tests have shown any Arab admixture in the Turks as for as far as I know everything points at Anatolia, Europe (the Balkans), the Southern Caucasus and to a lesser extent Central Asia.

Arab admixture in Anatolia is rather non-existent no genetic shows this. The Arabians although raided Anatolia they could never subdue it. If you compare Iraqis, Bahrainis, and Saudis who all fall into the same cluster, they highly differ from the Turks and to large extent from Levantines. As well the Arabian cluster seems to be isolated but it drifts to the Levant.

ZephyrousMandaru
04-06-2012, 09:34 PM
Neolitich admixture in Europe (last K12b run).

South Italy : 49.0
Sicilian : 48.4
Greece : 47.5
Central Italy: 40.8
Tuscan : 37.7
Bulgarians : 36.5
Romanian : 34.3
North Italy : 28.4
Ukraine : 19.4
Hungarians : 19.2
Belorussian : 15.2
Polish : 14.4
Russian : 13.1
Spain: 12.8
German : 11.5
French : 10.6
Basques : 0.0

Is that accurate? I can't imagine Greeks registering lower Neolithic genetic signatures than Southern Italians/Sicilians do.

ZephyrousMandaru
04-06-2012, 09:52 PM
The Southwest Asian component is only 1/4 of my ancestry (about 20%), yet it dominates my face.

Pallantides
04-06-2012, 09:54 PM
I'm 0% Southwest Asian ... I had no reason whatsoever to state this, but I just did.:coffee:

ZephyrousMandaru
04-06-2012, 09:56 PM
I'm 0% Southwest Asian ... I had no reason whatsoever to state this, but I just did.:coffee:

Most Europeans score between 1 to 5% Southwest Asian (Greeks and Southern Italians/Sicilians have more of it).

Aivap
04-06-2012, 09:58 PM
Turks, if we speak of phenotypes, are close with south east Europeans and arabs of east mediterranean countries.

Pallantides
04-06-2012, 10:00 PM
Most Europeans score between 1 to 5% Southwest Asian (Greeks and Southern Italians/Sicilians have more of it).

Well not this boy. :thumb001:

Yaroslav
04-06-2012, 10:16 PM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4d/Haplogroups_europe.png

Hope that clears up any confusion. :thumb001:

Sikeliot
04-06-2012, 10:17 PM
Is that accurate? I can't imagine Greeks registering lower Neolithic genetic signatures than Southern Italians/Sicilians do.

It makes sense if you consider that Greeks received later Balkan/Slavic influences which to a slight extent altered their genes.

Nabatea1
04-09-2012, 09:05 PM
They are far more closer to Europeans they are to Arabs, genetics and history support this.

Sturmgewehr
04-09-2012, 09:19 PM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4d/Haplogroups_europe.png

Hope that clears up any confusion. :thumb001:

it doesn't clear up anything, it just shows common haplogroups to their areas.

What if I told u that some Turko Mongolic Tribes near Siberia are as high as 80% in their R1a Haplogroup, Iranians I believe range somewhere between 50% - 60% of R1a Haplogroup, Cameroon Bantu speakers are as high as 90% in R1b.

a haplogroup doesn't show much even the map u have posted doesn't show anything in particular it is saying Turkey is rich in J2b which is also an European Haplogroup who entered Europe during the Neolithic Period.

brunette
04-09-2012, 09:23 PM
Not Iranians but the Azerbaijanis some people get confused with Caucasian Iranians and Georgian S.O and so forth and call them 'Iranic'. Really they belong to the Pontic Steppe of Eurasia where Neolithics all began. ; )

Thraex
04-16-2012, 12:42 PM
Europeans, certainly. If Turks are closer to Arabs then Balkan peoples are closer to Arabs than we are to Europeans. We have a shared history with the Turks and many Balkanites became Turks in addition to Anatolians moving to the Balkans and vice versa.

The Ottoman Empire was in essence an amalgamation of Balkan and Anatolian cultures. A lot of Balkans look at the Ottoman Empire like it was some foreign empire when in reality we made up the bulk of its most important population who played a large part in shaping the Ottoman Empire. It's ridiculous to think otherwise just because the state was Muslim, give me a break, religion don't make a people, we do.

Nabatea1
04-16-2012, 10:04 PM
Funny 30 votes for Arabs lol. Turks cluster with Greeks first and for most than any Arabian, heck not even Levantines.

Romanion
04-16-2012, 10:11 PM
because the state was Muslim, give me a break, religion don't make a people, we do.

Actually religion did make the modern turks, the people tht converted to Islam became modern turks, so it did have a major factor. These genetic arguments are silly because culture is affected little by genetics.

chaser
04-16-2012, 10:18 PM
i'd say turks are very like spaniards. if they are integrated into european culture, they wouldn't be considered as aliens in Europe, imo

Prince Carlo
04-17-2012, 06:27 AM
Funny 30 votes for Arabs lol. Turks cluster with Greeks first and for most than any Arabian, heck not even Levantines.

Turks form a cluster with Georgians, Armenians and sometimes Assyrians.

Nabatea1
04-17-2012, 06:36 AM
Turks form a cluster with Georgians, Armenians and sometimes Assyrians.

Yes but many cluster with Greeks, anyway their not close to Arabians. Arabians drift a little toward the Levant and not Anatolia. Yemenite Jews for example cluster with Arabian populations because they are Arabians, in fact there is no difference between my mothers tribe and Yemenite Jews genetically at all. Certainly a Turk would not be close to a Yemenite Jew/Arabian than he is to a Greek.

ZephyrousMandaru
04-17-2012, 06:48 AM
Turks form a cluster with Georgians, Armenians and sometimes Assyrians.

I don't know about that, I don't know of any Assyrians who cluster very closely with Turks. As a matter of fact, an Assyrian will cluster closer to a Druze or even a Palestinian before a Turk. As evidenced by my position on this PCA Plot.

http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/9747/zephyrousmandaruplot.png

Nabatea1
04-17-2012, 07:00 PM
Turks are not close to Arabs at all, genetically speaking, they are close to Europeans and West Asians. Maybe by some cultural elements and religion but this is about it. 34 votes haha but science and genetics does not agree with political or nationalist sentiments ;)

Sikeliot
04-17-2012, 07:03 PM
Turks, even western Turks, are not identical genetic matches with Greeks and are still quite a bit less European.

Azalea
04-17-2012, 07:07 PM
Turks, even western Turks, are not identical genetic matches with Greeks and are still quite a bit less European.

You do realise that there is no Greek & Turkish DNA, right? There are Turks more European than Greeks, and Greeks more European than Turks. An Anatolian and Caucasian Greek will be far les European than a Balkan or Western Turk, while a mainland Greek wil be more European than a Anatolian Turk.

Sikeliot
04-17-2012, 07:09 PM
When I say Greek I mean those whose ancestors have lived continuously in Greece.. Pontic, Anatolian, Cypriot Greeks to me are their own thing.

Azalea
04-17-2012, 07:10 PM
When I say Greek I mean those whose ancestors have lived continuously in Greece.. Pontic, Anatolian, Cypriot Greeks to me are their own thing.

Well a great part of the Greeks in Greece has either fully or partial Anatolian ancestry.

Sikeliot
04-17-2012, 07:12 PM
I keep hearing that but genetic studies have not really shown it to be true, have they? People say northern Greece is mostly Anatolian Greeks now.. but their y-dna does not reflect it and I have not seen genetic results of modern Greeks that show them to cluster in Anatolia.

Queen B
04-17-2012, 07:13 PM
:fcinema:

Nabatea1
04-17-2012, 07:16 PM
Turks, even western Turks, are not identical genetic matches with Greeks and are still quite a bit less European.

Arabian girl with traditional Clothes clearly does not look European:

http://s18.postimage.org/6dlbhdr61/qatari_traditional_dress_2.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
upload pictures (http://postimage.org/)

Turkish girl with traditional Clothes and does look West Asian/European:

http://s17.postimage.org/5ibcf63zz/Traditional_Turkish_clothes.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
image upload (http://postimage.org/)

Only fool would say that the two people are close together, when they share nothing beside religion and this can be seen on their genetics and phenotype.

Azalea
04-17-2012, 07:18 PM
I keep hearing that but genetic studies have not really shown it to be true, have they? People say northern Greece is mostly Anatolian Greeks now.. but their y-dna does not reflect it and I have not seen genetic results of modern Greeks that show them to cluster in Anatolia.

Honestly, I am not that familiar with Greece but I do know that a significant part of their population has Anatolian ancestry. F.e, a Greek user at ABF said that a lot of Northern Greeks have Pontian Greek ancestry. But I haven't seen a study about the Y-DNA of Greeks of Anatolian origin. If you have, please show me.

And when it comes to genetics, I don't think there is a fully Anatolian Greek in any of the projects. There are Greeks with partial Anatolian ancestry though and they do clearly show a pul towards Anatolia. There are a few Turkish Dodecad members with Pontian Greek ancestry and their genome is very typical Northeastern Anatolian. They do not show more European ancestry than fully ethnic Turks.

R4ge
04-29-2012, 04:21 AM
Turks are closer to some Europeans like Cypriots and Greeks than they are to Arabs however they're closer to Arabs than they are to other Europeans.

Siberian Cold Breeze
04-29-2012, 10:08 AM
None of them.We are Eurasians.completely different in origin and culture

R4ge
04-29-2012, 10:13 AM
None of them.We are Eurasians.completely different in origin and culture

So the Turks of the modern nation known as Turkey are "completely different" in origin and culture to the people surrounding them? How can that be, when you practice Islam and share an enormous amount of culture with Greeks, Arabs, Armenians and even Kurds? How can you deny that? Seems like self-delusion to me.

Onur
04-29-2012, 10:24 AM
So the Turks of the modern nation known as Turkey are "completely different" in origin and culture to the people surrounding them? How can that be, when you practice Islam and share an enormous amount of culture with Greeks, Arabs, Armenians and even Kurds? How can you deny that? Seems like self-delusion to me.
Those are later additions to our culture but as an origin, our culture is Eurasian and completely different from our neighbors.

Also Greeks, Arabs, Armenians and Kurds have elements from Turkish culture too but their original cultures are also completely different from us. For example, Greek language had like 10.000 Turkish words a century ago, Serbian language still has 9000+ Turkish words but as i said, those are later additions to their languages, our original cultures are different from each other.

R4ge
04-29-2012, 10:30 AM
Well, she stated that Turks were completely different in origin AND culture, which implies that modern Turkish culture is completely different from their neighbors.

Siberian Cold Breeze
04-29-2012, 10:42 AM
We are not in your semites interest party ..we already discussed this @AS so dont make me repeat myself ok?

R4ge
04-29-2012, 10:43 AM
We are not in your semites interest party ..we already discussed this @AS so dont make me repeat myself ok?

Lol. Nice ad hominem, broken down emotionally. Next time when you make statements in regards to a topic like this make sure you're able to back them up with some sense instead of basing them upon emotion and self-delusion. No one who's genuinely interested in this topic and the facts wants to hear it.

Siberian Cold Breeze
04-29-2012, 10:48 AM
I don't like repeative talks

Siberian Cold Breeze
04-29-2012, 10:51 AM
Those are later additions to our culture but as an origin, our culture is Eurasian and completely different from our neighbors.

Also Greeks, Arabs, Armenians and Kurds have elements from Turkish culture too but their original cultures are also completely different from us. For example, Greek language had like 10.000 Turkish words a century ago, Serbian language still has 9000+ Turkish words but as i said, those are later additions to their languages, our original cultures are different from each other.

He keeps getting same answer from Turks at every forum but he won't understand ,so ..

R4ge
04-29-2012, 10:55 AM
What answer?

Not everyone is self-deluded like you. orangepulp and 5aday are good examples of this.

What's wrong with saying that Turks share cultural elements with their neighbors such as Armenians, Greeks, Kurds, Arabs and so on? You made the claim that Turks were "completely different" culturally from both Europeans and Arabs and I refuted you. Simple as that.

When you make a claim, you should be able to back it up. You can't back anything up, the only reason you continue to make these statements is because you've deluded yourself into believing a fantasy.

Siberian Cold Breeze
04-29-2012, 11:06 AM
We clustered ourselves always with rising and promising culture ..its our historical pattern .
When we joined to Islam culture ,it was fresh and lively so it was a good path to go
but not anymore..so we have nothing to do with this foreign culture ..
And Europe is declining too ..
may be its time to salute the sun again ..Asia is rising now..It's time to seek new opportunities -both economic and cultural with Asia
Middleast =problem..only pain no gain ,no national interest ..its wise to put a safe distance with this restless region

R4ge
04-29-2012, 11:35 AM
I don't see how any of that is relevant in regards to how Turks are completely different culturally from Europeans and Arabs but K, have fun. I wish you good luck with that.

http://www.pubtheo.com/images/chinese-workers.jpg

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01678/Labour_Camp_1678487c.jpg

Siberian Cold Breeze
04-29-2012, 11:53 AM
Much better than this: :puke:

http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj539/bleepingbeauty1/Necrofilia.jpg

Have sex with your dead wife — Egypt's Islamic gov law proposal?
It appears unsubstantiated controversial news reports are circling regarding the fact that Egypt's Islamist-dominated parliament has proposed a controversial law allowing husbands to have sex with their dead wives within six hours after death.
Talk of the new "Farewell Intercourse" law proposal has hit several news sources causing uproar and differing reactions.
Al Arabiya report that Egyptian columnist Amro Abdul Samea in an opinion piece in Al-Ahram discussed the new law proposal.
The British Daily Mail online, and Al Arabiya both cover the story and report that Egypt’s National Council for Women is campaigning against these laws stating that Dr Mervat al-Talawi, head of the NCW, has listed her concerns in a letter to the Egyptian People’s Assembly Speaker Dr Saad al-Katatni.
Other sources state there is no evidence of an Egyptian government 'sex with dead wife' law proposal.

Read more: http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/323758#ixzz1tQg8JWzh

R4ge
04-29-2012, 11:56 AM
How is that relevant to anything? You seem to have issues.

For the record, Egypt's "Farewell Intercourse" law was a hoax purported by Mubarak's minions. Seems they succeeded in fooling some feeble minds.