Austrians = Germans?

[Mosov]

I've always been interested in this question. Do you think Austrians are Germans, just with a different political label, or are Austrians a separate ethnic group from the Germans? In addition, what you think about Swiss Germans?

[safinator]

I consider them differently as i do with Serbians and Croatians.

[SaxonCeorl]

Very, very different, IMO. I think of Austrians and Swiss as being largely Alpine, while proper Germans are Nordic. I see it more like "Germans = Dutch = Danes".

Disclaimer: This is all simply my opinion and has very little to no grounding in actual fact.

[Mosov]

Very, very different, IMO. I think of Austrians and Swiss as being largely Alpine, while proper Germans are Nordic. I see it more like "Germans = Dutch = Danes".

Disclaimer: This is all simply my opinion and has very little to no grounding in actual fact.

How about Bavarians, they are technically Germans, but probably more similar to Austrians than North Germans.

[Osweo]

Austrians ARE Bavarians.

[Gaztelu]

I see Austrians as a regional variation of Germans, much like Prussians, Alsatians, Saxons, etc.

[SaxonCeorl]

How about Bavarians, they are technically Germans, but probably more similar to Austrians than North Germans.

You're right, and I only view them as technically being Germans. I don't see them as "proper" Germans. Proper Germans have to look like me.

I'll probably take so much flak for this but, rest assured all swarthy Germans, my opinion on this matter is based purely on my own quirky view and has no basis in fact ;)

[rashka]

I think they were a Germanicized group of people that included different types of which Slav is one.

[riverman]

........

[Mosov]

Are there any notable genetic differences?

[Corraidh]

I would say mostly Germanic; but, there were tons of other peoples in modern day Austria as well. The first peoples were probably Pannonian (who were "kind of" Greek). They then mixed with the Gaulish and became Celts. Long after, copious Germanic peoples came as did many Slavs (the former outnumbering the latter). I think it's fair to call Austrians "Germanic" but if I were Austrian I'd call myself, simply, Austrian.

[derLowe]

Are there any notable genetic differences?

Don't know about genetic, all the Austrians I know are very short tempered and drive rather badly, which is in very different to my German acquaintances.

[Gigolo]

i think they are the same people.

Edit: Hitler was Austrian actually but had no problems becoming German Leader, if he were not German do you think he would become Leader of Germany? Like if he were French or English he would never become Leader of Germany back than.

[Corraidh]

i think they are the same people.

Edit: Hitler was Austrian actually but had no problems becoming German Leader, if he were not German do you think he would become Leader of Germany? Like if he were French or English he would never become Leader of Germany back than.
He was of Braunau am Inn which was a Bavarian town. The Bavarian being a Germanic people. Carinthia, on the other hand, was first a Celtic stead before it became a Slavic princedom.

[Gigolo]

He was of Braunau am Inn which was a Bavarian town. The Bavarian being a Germanic people. Carinthia, on the other hand, was first a Celtic stead before it became a Slavic princedom.

i think all european peoples have various inputs from different tribes. the germans from germany also have slav input in the east of germany, but they are basically all the same, namely germans. :)

[Defiance]

I think of Austrians and Swiss as being largely Alpine, while proper Germans are Nordic.
Where's the "facepalm" emoticon?

Please drop the Nazi-Nordicist rubbish. I mean, seriously, how many Germans are actually phenotypically Nordic?


This is all simply my opinion and has very little to no grounding in actual fact.
Ya got that much right.

[Corraidh]

i think all european peoples have various inputs from different tribes. the germans from germany also have slav input in the east of germany, but they are basically all the same, namely germans. :)
Very true.

[Mosov]

I would expect more genetic contribution from Hungary/Slavic elements in Austrians.

Though it seems Austrians are a bit darker than Germans.

Where would Austrian Chancellor pass?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7d/Werner_Faymann_Wien08-2008a.jpg/404px-Werner_Faymann_Wien08-2008a.jpg

[Loki]

Where's the "facepalm" emoticon?

Please drop the Nazi-Nordicist rubbish. I mean, seriously, how many Germans are actually phenotypically Nordic?



Are you as old as the boy in your avvie? Judging by your posts it might be the case. Disgruntled boy going through puberty?

Drop the attitude already son - please :)

[Defiance]

Are you as old as the boy in your avvie?
....."Boy"?

Regardless, I think I have the right be offended. Especially with s**t like this.


Drop the attitude already son - please :)
Perhaps I will when you will, "son."

[Loki]

Regardless, I think I have the right be offended. Especially with s**t like this.


You were the one who was rude first to SaxonCeorl, without provocation. I don't like attitudes like those :)

[Defiance]

You were the one who was rude first to SaxonCeorl, without provocation. I don't like attitudes like those :)
I can assure you that I wasn't trying to be rude. I've just got little tolerance for idiocy.
And yes, I am a naturally angry person - what of it?

Anyway, I would just like to apologize to the OP for the little tangent.

[Loki]

I can assure you that I wasn't trying to be rude. I've just got little tolerance for idiocy.
And yes, I am a naturally angry person - what of it?

Anyway, I would just like to apologize to the OP for the little tangent.

Okay cool man :)

Just remember - someone having a viewpoint different from yours does not mean they're idiots necessarily.

Thanks for apologising, have a nice day. :)

[Redar14]

Very, very different, IMO. I think of Austrians and Swiss as being largely Alpine, while proper Germans are Nordic. I see it more like "Germans = Dutch = Danes".

Not true! Bavarians for example are much more similar to Austrians than to Northern Germans.

[Geminus]

From a historical perspective Austrians are Germans for sure, that's also how I see them. Wien was capital of the Holy Roman Empire for a long time, and many of it's emperors were descendants from the House of Habsburg.
That Austria isn't part of Germany today is because of the unfavorable development only in the nearer history.
When the modern Germany was founded in 1871 Greater Germany couldn't be realized (with Greater Germany including the German speaking parts of Austria-Hungary).
After World War I, when Austria-Hungary was dissolved, the majority of the Austrians wanted to join Germany, but it was forbidden by the Treaty of St. Germain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Saint-Germain-en-Laye_(1919)).
Also the Anschluss in 1938 was welcomed by the great majority of Austrians.
After WW II there was the concept of creating a new "Austrian-non-German" identity, which until now seemed to be rather successful. But there are still quite a number of Austrians who see themselves as Germans, most notably many supporters of the FPÖ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_Party_of_Austria).

[The Journeyman]

Austrians are of a separate culture, although similar to Bavarians. The difference lies mainly in it's history. Austria's institutions are older (University of Vienna is the oldest in the German-speaking world), the people identify with the monarchy of the Habsburgs and the Austro-Hungarian Empire, the struggle with the Turks etc, rather than with Germany, or what was the union of German states under the Prussians.

The individual provinces of Austria also have a very independent spirit, as Austrians often identify first with the province they live in: Tiroler, Salzburger etc.

Austrians also tend to be more charming and fun-loving than the Germans. Austrians drink wine, Germans drink Beer. Austrians drink beer too but their rich and ancient wine tradition is one that separates them from the Germans.

[SaxonCeorl]

I've just got little tolerance for idiocy.

It's not idiocy when I specifically made clear that I was just being silly and 'having a go'. You need to read more closely ;)

[noricum]

Settlement in Austria:

http://i650.photobucket.com/albums/uu227/roapazeinli/OesterreichEthnisch.jpg

Caption:

Slavic settlement + bavarian immigration
Celtic and rhaeto-roman settlement + bavarinan immigration
Rhaeto-roman settlement + alamannic immigration
Rhaeto-roman
Avars
Bavarian colonisation
Almost unpopulated
Names of illyric derivation
Names of celtic derivation
Names of roman derivation
Names of slavic derivation
Names of german derivation
Ring of the Avars



Austrian mugs:

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24027

Austria is Germany's extention to the southeast in all respects. Thus we differ in some respects from the German mean, but that's just normal considering that Austria is a border region.

To me, there can be no doubt that Austrians are ethnic Bavarians -hence Germans. While nowadays most Austrians believe in a distinct Austrian Nation and Ethnicity. Amongst them also many FPÖ-voters, just to mention that. (Proving that one can vote the right party out of the wrong reasons;))

[The Journeyman]

Settlement in Austria:

http://i650.photobucket.com/albums/uu227/roapazeinli/OesterreichEthnisch.jpg

Austrian mugs:

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24027

Austria is Germany's extention to the southeast in all respects. Thus we differ in some respects from the German mean, but that's just normal considering that Austria is a border region.

To me, there can be no doubt that Austrians are ethnic Bavarians -hence Germans. While nowadays most Austrians believe in a distinct Austrian Nation and Ethnicity. Amongst them also many FPÖ-voters, just to mention that. (Proving that one can vote the right party out of the wrong reasons;))

Well ethnically or rather racially, Austrians obviously aren't different really from Bavarians, Austria's history stems from the Duchy of Bavaria. But if you think they are the same nation, then by similar reasoning, the Scotts are ethnically Irish because they were originally a collection of Irish Gaelic clans and still speak a similar Gaelic dialect. Nevermind the hundreds of years of history, customs, monarchy that separates them.

[Mosov]

I do think the long time of separation between Austria and Germany (and its states) allowed for a separate identity to from in Austria stemming from the Hapsburg monarchy interactions with Hungarians, Serbs, etc. and obviously the dominant Catholic religion. Of course the identity was reinforced after WW2. In my view what we are seeing is the steady process of a formation of a separate ethnic group. The reason there's so much controversy is if Austrians=Germans or not, is that they are still in the process of becoming a separate ethnic group, which takes naturally a rather long time. The fact that most Austrians consider themselves Austrian not German is a big step in this process, and I think given a long period of time, this controversy will die down.

Just look at how numerous other ethnic groups have been formed.

[Supreme American]

As I understand, most of Austria is ethnic German as it was once the same country. Oesterreich just means "Eastern Reich," anyway.

[The Journeyman]

As I understand, most of Austria is ethnic German as it was once the same country. Oesterreich just means "Eastern Reich," anyway.

Large swaths of Italian and French land were also part of that "country" you're referring to.

[Geminus]

Large swaths of Italian and French land were also part of that "country" you're referring to.

But Austria is part of the ethnolinguistic group of Germans which Italians and French are not. They speak German with a Bavarian dialect, so there is a fluent transition of the dialects at the border between the FRG and Austria. Here you can see where the Bavarian dialect is prevalent:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/bar/6/6e/Boarisch-mit-Flaggn-02.png
As there was pointed out before, Austria was created by Bavarian settlement. The differences between Austrians and Bavarians are much less than for example the differences between Bavarians and North Germans. So it's rather absurd to claim Austria is that distinct from the rest of Germany, that it forms a new nation.

[Pallantides]

You're right, and I only view them as technically being Germans. I don't see them as "proper" Germans. Proper Germans have to look like me.


So a lot of great Germans are not "proper" Germans then by your definition.

[Thraex]

Just because Austrians speak German doesn't mean they're ethnically German. The only real link between Germany/Prussia and Austria is Hitler and German language.

[Geminus]

Just because Austrians speak German doesn't mean they're ethnically German. The only real link between Germany/Prussia and Austria is Hitler and German language.

It would be fortunate if only people with at least a tiny knowledge of German history would state their opinions...

[Midori]

Austrians are just Germans with a bit of Slavic and Italian influence. Same goes for Swiss Germans, but with French influence instead of Slavic.

[noricum]

Nevermind the hundreds of years of history, customs, monarchy that separates them.

The separation wasn't as strong as you might think, at least until 1866.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Confederation

Austrian was only the collective term for all the different ethnicities within the A-H monarchy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Austria_Hungary_ethnic.svg

The idea of a distinct Austrian Ethnicity and Nation is of Austro-Fashist origin which saw Austria as the "better Germany" because of the wide spread Catholicism amog other things.:rolleyes:
1938 showed that this ideas wasn't widely accepted.
In 1945 this idea, in combination with the "Hitlers first victim-story" suddenly became quite useful to finally get shot of allied occupation troops later in 1955. From that point on the distinct Austrian Nation/Ethnicity became our reason of state and more and more accepted within the population.

[Mosov]

It would be fortunate if only people with at least a tiny knowledge of German history would state their opinions...

The question is do you think Austrians will be strictly a different ethnic group in let's say 100 years? Are we witnessing the ethnic group formation in process?

[SaxonCeorl]

So a lot of great Germans are not "proper" Germans then by your definition.

:icon_yes:

Here's my kind of German (she's actually from Luxembourg)

http://justwm.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/wm-models-just-wm-management-paris-mannequin-mannequinat-fashion-famous-model-agency-catwalk-defiles-mode-beauty-fashion-consulting-endorsement-beaute-agence-modeling-celebrite-cel62.jpg

:thumb001:

[Pallantides]

Agrippa view himself as German... would you deny him that?;)

[noricum]

Agrippa view himself as German... would you deny him that?;)

Or even Inqiring Mind?:D

[hajduk]

...

[SaxonCeorl]

Agrippa view himself as German... would you deny him that?;)

No, I just think of Germany as being similar to the Netherlands and Denmark. That's just me. Obviously others can see it differently.

Like, if I went to Germany I'd be most interested in visiting Schleswig-Holstein

Check out this Dutch girl:

http://euro2008.worldcupblog.org/files/2008/06/dutch_girl_031.jpg

But really, I'm just trolling Bavarians and Austrians :thumb001:

[Odoacer]

As far as I'm concerned, Austrians & Swiss Germans are all Germans - though for obvious historical reasons many Austrians & Swiss Germans might prefer to identify as something separate from the Bundesrepublik Deutschland & its citizens.

[Mosov]

:icon_yes:

Here's my kind of German (she's actually from Luxembourg)

http://justwm.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/wm-models-just-wm-management-paris-mannequin-mannequinat-fashion-famous-model-agency-catwalk-defiles-mode-beauty-fashion-consulting-endorsement-beaute-agence-modeling-celebrite-cel62.jpg

:thumb001:

beautiful...where do I sign up? ;)

[Osweo]

Well ethnically or rather racially, Austrians obviously aren't different really from Bavarians, Austria's history stems from the Duchy of Bavaria. But if you think they are the same nation, then by similar reasoning, the Scotts are ethnically Irish because they were originally a collection of Irish Gaelic clans and still speak a similar Gaelic dialect. Nevermind the hundreds of years of history, customs, monarchy that separates them.

THat's a terrible analogy. Scotland grew from an uneasy royal union of around five distinct ethnic stocks, the Irish being a historic superstratum in just ONE of these. The territory of modern Austria is far more homogenous, and grew in an organic fashion due to a single process of Bajuwar expansion and assimilation. :thumb001:

[OrK364]

From a historical perspective Austrians are Germans for sure, that's also how I see them. Wien was capital of the Holy Roman Empire for a long time, and many of it's emperors were descendants from the House of Habsburg.
That Austria isn't part of Germany today is because of the unfavorable development only in the nearer history.
When the modern Germany was founded in 1871 Greater Germany couldn't be realized (with Greater Germany including the German speaking parts of Austria-Hungary).
After World War I, when Austria-Hungary was dissolved, the majority of the Austrians wanted to join Germany, but it was forbidden by the Treaty of St. Germain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Saint-Germain-en-Laye_(1919)).
Also the Anschluss in 1938 was welcomed by the great majority of Austrians.
After WW II there was the concept of creating a new "Austrian-non-German" identity, which until now seemed to be rather successful. But there are still quite a number of Austrians who see themselves as Germans, most notably many supporters of the FPÖ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_Party_of_Austria).

true..from my Mom side I'm an Austrian and my grandpa always referred to Germans like "brothers" :) I would say austrians just "special kind" of Germans :) :beer::beer::beer:

[The Journeyman]

Agrippa view himself as German... would you deny him that?;)


THat's a terrible analogy. Scotland grew from an uneasy royal union of around five distinct ethnic stocks, the Irish being a historic superstratum in just ONE of these. The territory of modern Austria is far more homogenous, and grew in an organic fashion due to a single process of Bajuwar expansion and assimilation. :thumb001:

The analogy is not terrible. Uneducated people confuse Scott's for Irishmen regularly too. There is no perfect analogy anyway.

You should try telling a Tiroler he is Bavarian, he will explain to you the difference in the most minute details. ;)

The cultural differences ARE minor, with Bavaria, that is. However, the histories of the two took them in different directions. Bavarians don't have a historical connection with the cultural centers of Austria as the Austrians do.

I'm personally divided on the issue, so I'm not going to get into a big debate about it (seeing as it is more a matter of subjective opinion anyway). Austria imo, has a more glorious history and power base, it has two historic capitals of the Habsburg Empire, yet I also know that Austrians and Germans are joined at the hip when government and/or religion isn't involved. I was more trying to incorporate the views of my Austrian friends and family. Believe me, I've debated the same issue with family before, and There are nazi sympathizers among them as well! Yet they feel that their history, connection to the land, folk and high culture are important enough to make a distinction.

[Leliana]

I've always been interested in this question. Do you think Austrians are Germans, just with a different political label, or are Austrians a separate ethnic group from the Germans? In addition, what you think about Swiss Germans?
Austrians are Germans as much as Bavarians or Swabs are Germans. My family lives distributed in Southern Germany, largely Bavaria and Swabia, and Austria and I own both the German and Austrian citizenship. There's no difference when I move across the border and back. :) Freilassing and Burghausen are located in Germany, Salzburg and Linz are located in Austria but the people and the culture are the same. The border between Austria and Germany is an artificial and synthetic one, people are being indoctrinated but most still feel that we are the same people and belong to each other at the end of the day. There's way more disparity between Munich and Berlin than between Munich and Vienna.

Swiss Germans are Swabs, Swiss German is like continued Swabian dialect.

Non-Germans and Non-Austrians talking about Germany and Austria as two different ethnicities slander my people and me and my heritage on a personal level. They should ask themselves which legitimation they have to utter such flimflam. :ohwell:

[lepa]

They are like Bulgarians-Macedoanians.

[Leliana]

They are like Bulgarians-Macedoanians.
Surely not, with certainty.

[Magyar the Conqueror]

Genetically wise they seem to be halfway between Hungarians and Germans.

[Leliana]

Genetically wise they seem to be halfway between Hungarians and Germans.
http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2009/10/26/129010824856928587.jpg

[Magyar the Conqueror]

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2009/10/26/129010824856928587.jpg

Hungarians had German influence, Swabians for example have assimilated into the Hungarian gene pool.

I saw simply referencing this.

http://spittoon.23andme.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/novembreblogpostfig.jpg

[Leliana]

Hungarians had German influence, Swabians for example have assimilated into the Hungarian gene pool.

I saw simply referencing this.
It's true that some Austrians had certain Hungarian influence but not the entire country. Stating that Austria is halfway German and Hungarian is bollocks. What's true is that some minor parts of Austria, namely the Burgenland, have got some mediocre Hungarian influence. The same situation with some areas of southern Kärnten with Slovenian impact. But that all Austrians, from Vorarlberg over Tirol to Niederösterreich, are halfway Hungarian is absurdism. :)

[Magyar the Conqueror]

It's true that Austria had some Hungarian influence but not the entire country. Saying that Austria is halfway German and Hungarian is bollocks. What is true is that some minor parts of Austria, namely the Burgenland, have got some mediocre Hungarian influence. The same with some areas of southern Kärnten with Slovenian impact. But that all Austrians, from Vorarlberg over Tirol to Niederösterreich, are halfway Hungarian is absurdism. :)

Hungarians had quite a bit of German influence. In a lot of Hungarian lands, mainly from the Swabians. In fact about 10 million Germans lived in the Kingdom of Hungary. Our genetics are not that different from any other European, and genetics have proven that we are more similar to Germans/Austrians than Turks/Mongols/gypsies.

But yes my statement was a bit stupid, but my point was that not all Austrians are genetically identical to all Germans.

[Rastko]

It's simple.Germany and Austria must be disunited for political reasons: stopping Germany in having more power in europe.They have to balance it.

[The Journeyman]

It's more about Austrian arrogance. A few Hundred years ago they believed they (ruling from Vienna) should rule over the German nations, but it didn't work out that way. The Viennese especially are proud to be separate from Germany.

[Mosov]

Don't Austrians get really offended if you call them Germans?

[The Journeyman]

Don't Austrians get really offended if you call them Germans?

Not really offended, but they will correct you. :D

[Septentrion]

Austrians are German-speaking people, however some are Slavic too. Most Austrians are similar to southern Germans, Swiss Germans. Difference between them and Germans is that the Dinaric and Alpine elements are more obvious here. The big Northern European types Borreby, Brunn, Dalo-faelid big-boned types of northern and central Germany are rare or less common. Nordids are seen as individuals. Nevertheless mixed Sub-Nordid/Noric are much more common than in Germany. Austrians are not quite as light as Germans but not much darker either. The most ruthless German dictator A.Hitler was of Austrian descent though he had blue eyes and dark brown hair, he suffered from an inferiority complex "vis a vis" of his German cousins whom he saw as a "perfect blond type". There is no such a thing as a perfect blond type nowhere in Europe, if somebody think so they're fooling themselves just as the Nazis did. However the truth is this, in pigmentation due to their mostly Germanic ancestry, blond hair, blue eyes, a fair skin are common in both Germany and Austria, but more common in Germany than Austria. Recent stats show for blond, pure blue eyes in percentage was (33%),(37%) for Austria and (41%),(53%) for Germany. The Germanic element seems to be stronger in Germany, while other element such as Slavic,Magyar,etc.. are part of Austria. So Austrian doesn't equal fully German, only partially.

[Wild North]

Hitler was indeed Austrian. And it is said that the old conservative Prussian-German nationalists-patriots (like Hindenburg) hated him for this.. Like calling him the "Bohemian corpral" and such.. But in the end they had no other choice, than to choose him.. :rolleyes:

[Corvus]

Don't Austrians get really offended if you call them Germans?

No, in contrast to the situation in Great Britain with Scots or Irish hardly anyone in Austrian will ever be offenden if you refer to them as Germans.

We can explain it quite simply:

Although there is a significant Slavic genetic element in Austira, from a cultural perspective they are more German than some regions in Germany.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57525&referrerid=4693

Even former Slavic strongholds like Carinthia or Stryria are nowadays totally dominated by the Bavarian Leitkultur

There is only one exception in the form of the capital Vienna which is more or less a cultural melting pot throughout history with strong Czech and Jewish elements, which can be observed also by the language they use, which sounds more like Jiddisch than proper Bavarian.

[Corvus]

Austrians are German-speaking people, however some are Slavic too. Most Austrians are similar to southern Germans, Swiss Germans. Difference between them and Germans is that the Dinaric and Alpine elements are more obvious here. The big Northern European types Borreby, Brunn, Dalo-faelid big-boned types of northern and central Germany are rare or less common. Nordids are seen as individuals. Nevertheless mixed Sub-Nordid/Noric are much more common than in Germany. Austrians are not quite as light as Germans but not much darker either. The most ruthless German dictator A.Hitler was of Austrian descent though he had blue eyes and dark brown hair, he suffered from an inferiority complex "vis a vis" of his German cousins whom he saw as a "perfect blond type". There is no such a thing as a perfect blond type nowhere in Europe, if somebody think so they're fooling themselves just as the Nazis did. However the truth is this, in pigmentation due to their mostly Germanic ancestry, blond hair, blue eyes, a fair skin are common in both Germany and Austria, but more common in Germany than Austria. Recent stats show for blond, pure blue eyes in percentage was (33%),(37%) for Austria and (41%),(53%) for Germany. The Germanic element seems to be stronger in Germany, while other element such as Slavic,Magyar,etc.. are part of Austria. So Austrian doesn't equal fully German, only partially.

Your description is more or less accurate but I can`t subscribe the last sentence. That sound to me like Austrians are only 50% German, while in fact they are 90% at least on a cultural level.

Genetically it is a different picture though

[Septentrion]

I only meant genetically, of course linguistically and culturally they're fully German.

[Superior American]

Danes = Germans?

Czech = Germans?

[Witalka]

Bavarians are taller, slimmer and have stricter features than Austrians.

Austrians are smaller, curvier and have rounder eyes like Adolf Hitler.

Swiss-Germans are like a mix of Germans, Austrians and French.

[Germaniac]

I look swiss german ahahahaahhahaha

[Corvus]

Bavarians are taller, slimmer and have stricter features than Austrians.

Austrians are smaller, curvier and have rounder eyes like Adolf Hitler.

Swiss-Germans are like a mix of Germans, Austrians and French.

My dear Russian friend. Please spare us with such generalistaions.
In reality Austrians and Bavarians are hard to distinguish.
There are tall and small people everywhere

[Witalka]

My dear Russian friend. Please spare us with such generalistaions.
In reality Austrians and Bavarians are hard to distinguish.
There are tall and small people everywhere

Maybe for you but facts are different.

Fact is that Bavarians are taller and slimmer.

Austrians are smaller, curvier.

[Nadezhda89]

Very interesting. But for sure Austrians have more gloriouis history. :)

[Leliana]

German and Austrian history has to be seen as a combination and as one unity because we are the same people. My family is German and Austrian, I got a German and an Austrian passport but I don't have two ethnicities, two native languages, two identities or two different cultures.

That's the way it is!

[Arrow Cross]

Just as much as Bavarians, Prussians, Saxons, Westfalians and any other German groups are German. Characterized by many local flavours, but undeniable parts of a common nation. Though with the current state of Germany, those from Ostmark should be glad they're in a separate and slightly less suicidal country; for the moment.

[malejj]

Most definitely NOT one and the same. I'm half Austrian and my Viennese family is far from German, both in appearance and culture.

Although many Austrians will have Germanic ancestry they are more of a Germanicized group of Slavs, Bohemians, Balkans in my opinion...

[Žołnir]

Austrian nation is compsed of German majority and Sloveno-Croat-Hungar minority.

[malejj]

Austrian nation is compsed of German majority and Sloveno-Croat-Hungar minority.

I think the German influence in Austria, from an ancestral point of view, is smaller than popular opinion in the Anthropological field would have us believe...

[noricum]

Spread of R1b-S21 (U106) which rightfully can be considered a "Germanic marker" and even has a peak in Austria along the Danube river.

http://i650.photobucket.com/albums/uu227/roapazeinli/Haplogroup-R1b-u-106_zps8d37f302.gif

(May partly derivate from Hallstatt remais who did not take part in the Germanic ethnogenesis though.)

Some more points:
not all of R1a in Austria necessarily derivates Slavic influence
Slavic influence in eastern Germany is at least as strong as in eastern Austria, yet nobody states eastern Germans are no Germans
Rhaetian base of western Austria is often overlooked
actual Hungarian influence is minor, still western Hungarians are genetically close to eastern Austrians

[Corvus]

Austrian nation is compsed of German majority and Sloveno-Croat-Hungar minority.

Sloveno-Czech-Hungarian minority. Croat is neglectable

By Hungarian I don`t mean the Hun or Turanid ancestry, it is more the Hungarian/Slavic heritage based on the Austrian-Hungarian empire.

Generally we can say there is a Eastern/Western divide
The Western part of Austria containing the provinces of
Upper Austria, Salzburg, Tyrol and Vorarlberg has almost zero
Slavic influx, while the East and South has a considerable amount

[Corvus]

Hitler was indeed Austrian. And it is said that the old conservative Prussian-German nationalists-patriots (like Hindenburg) hated him for this.. Like calling him the "Bohemian corpral" and such.. But in the end they had no other choice, than to choose him.. :rolleyes:

Bohemian corporal. Never heard about that. Sounds funny though :p

[noricum]

Bohemian corporal. Never heard about that. Sounds funny though :p

Hindenburg confused Braunau (Broumov) in Czechia, which he might remembered from 1866, with Hitlers real birthplace Braunau/Innviertel Upper Austria.

[Žołnir]

Spread of R1b-S21 (U106) which rightfully can be considered a "Germanic marker" and even has a peak in Austria along the Danube river.

http://i650.photobucket.com/albums/uu227/roapazeinli/Haplogroup-R1b-u-106_zps8d37f302.gif

(May partly derivate from Hallstatt remais who did not take part in the Germanic ethnogenesis though.)

Some more points:
not all of R1a in Austria necessarily derivates Slavic influence
Slavic influence in eastern Germany is at least as strong as in eastern Austria, yet nobody states eastern Germans are no Germans
Rhaetian base of western Austria is often overlooked
actual Hungarian influence is minor, still western Hungarians are genetically close to eastern Austrians

What i esentially see problematic with this map is if this haplogroup is German or Germanic how come some westernmost Polish area has relatively high frequency if that area was deported an populated by east Poles from Kresy.

[noricum]

What i esentially see problematic with this map is if this haplogroup is German or Germanic how come some westernmost Polish area has relatively high frequency if that area was deported an populated by east Poles from Kresy.

May be some where slavified during the last ca. 1500 years?

[Permafrost]

If Austria was the one to unify the Germanophone population of Europe, we wouldn't be having this discussion today. After all, for half a millenium, Vienna was the administrative center of the Germans, and the Habsburgs were their leaders.

Why I presume Bismarck opposed Austrians during the unification of Germany is because the AO was a multicultural shithole, by the end of the 19th century it contained every possible religion from Catholicism to Tengriism. And if I am not mistaken, in the same era as a result of ethnic nationalism running rampant in the empire, the Habsburgs allowed Slavs to have administrative roles (sort of a last ditch tactics to hold everything together) in Vienna, and I don't need to tell you that when a Prussian hears "Slav" and "Administrative position" in the same sentence, he developes an acute allergic reaction.

Anyway, ethnicity is a very subjective term, today you can find Austrians who think of themselves as ethnic Germans, on the other hand there are also those who oppose Pan-Germanism (and Pan-Slavism), vouching for an Austrian ethnicity instead.

[Žołnir]

May be some where slavified during the last ca. 1500 years?

I rather doubt it at least not kresy Poles. But regardless genetic maps and maps in general must be always considered with some reserve. :)

[noricum]

But regardless genetic maps and maps in general must be always considered with some reserve. :)

Yeah that's true. But you'll rarely see a map where genetics, history and meta-ethnicity fit together better than in this example. Also Polako from eurogenes agrees whith U-106 being a "germanic marker" and he can hardly be considered a "Germanicist"/nemčur.

[Ctwentysevenj]

http://unknownbeautifulwomen.wordpress.com/tag/austria/

In the above link, it shows a blue eyed blond from Klagenfurt, Carinthia.