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Turkophagos
04-13-2012, 08:03 AM
http://s1.reutersmedia.net/resources/r/?m=02&d=20120411&t=2&i=593470683&w=460&fh=&fw=&ll=&pl=&r=CBRE83A1EUK00

Editor's note: As Greeks protest on the streets about unpopular austerity measures aimed at cutting national debt, a general election is called that could lead to more uncertainty. CNN explains what's happening and what it could mean to Greece's future.

London (CNN) -- What is happening in Greece?
Greece is preparing to head to the polls after Prime Minister Lucas Papademos said the country will hold a snap election on May 6. The elections are the first since the Greece crisis exploded and come as the country desperately attempts bring its finances under control.

The announcement comes amid collapsing support for the two parties -- New Democracy and PASOK -- which have dominated Greek politics since the fall of the military junta in 1974. Political support has splintered, and smaller parties have gained in response to the financial crisis which has wracked the country for almost two years.

Will debt deal save Greece?

The main parties' support of brutal austerity measures, demanded by the country's international creditors in return for aid to keep the country afloat, has left many Greeks disenchanted with the political establishment.
Greek PM calls elections for May 6
Spain woes spook global markets
Greek bond swap for new debt?
Greek minister: Changes allow growth

The political landscape is now deeply uncertain, and likely to be one of the most important elections in decades.

Why are they holding an election now?

Papademos, a former banker and European Central Bank vice president, is an unelected politician who was sworn in as head of an interim government on November 11, 2011, after four days of political wrangling.

Papademos's mandate was to implement Greece's second bail-out package, which was finally agreed on February 21, and included €130 billion ($170 billion) in new financing.

His government is a coalition made up mainly of historically polarized New Democracy and PASOK. The interim government was put in place after George Papandreou's dramatic final days as Greece's leader, in which he announced he would hold a referendum on the second bail-out package before withdrawing the suggestion.

Greece plays chicken with its people

The flip-flopping sent shivers through the world markets, ratcheted up fears Europe's bailout program would fail and left Papandreou politically damaged.

The bail-out deal included an unprecedented restructuring of the country's debt which sliced the value of private creditors' investments in the country in half, saving the country €100 billion from its total debt pile of more than €300 billion.

Austerity drives up suicide

However, the austerity measures also triggered violent protests, with dozens of buildings burnt in Athens earlier this year in protest. The suicide of 77-year-old retired pharmacist Dimitris Christoulas this month, in central Athens' Syntagma Square, also underscored the pain of the austerity measures.

What parties are in the running?

New Democracy, which is politically center-right, is ahead in opinion polls, which are indicating support of between 18% and 21%. PASOK, which sits center-left, is polling between 13% and 15%. This puts the two of them together at less than 40%, compared to a combined 77% at the last election.

In opinion polls the Communist Party has between 8% and 11% support, while smaller parties such the left-wing Syriza party and nationalist LAOS party have between 7% to 12%, and 3% to 4% respectively.

Crucially, however, a GPO poll shows one in three voters doesn't intend to or hasn't decided how to vote, leaving the outcome difficult predict. The polls also show the rise of two new political parties, the Democratic Left and right-wing Independent Greeks.

The drop in support for the main parties has been severe; In 2009, PASOK won the election with 43.9% of the vote, followed by New Democracy at 33.5%. The Communist Party took just 7.5%, with LAOS sitting at 5.6% and Syriza sitting at 4.6%.

What could happen?

It appears unlikely any one party will win a majority, meaning a coalition government is a likely outcome.

It is possible the two main parties could build a coalition, or one could be put together with the center-right, or center-left parties. There are doubts over whether the historically opposed New Democracy and PASOK could maintain a long-term stable government.

However, a coalition made up with smaller parties could also be fragile, and create difficulties in pushing through new measures.

Current polls show nine parties meet the 3% threshold to enter parliament. Indecision over a coalition could lead to a further administrative rule.

Whatever the outcome, there are already fears an unstable government could force the country back to the polls within months, as happened in 1989.

it is also unclear who could be the next prime minister in a coalition, although the polling suggests it will be the leader of New Democracy, Antonis Samaras. There is speculation, however, Papademos may be forced to continue as a transitional leader.

The election comes as the country remains volatile and at risk of spiraling deeper into crisis, despite the two bail-outs foisted upon it by the International Monetary Fund and its eurozone peers.

Its economy is shrinking, unemployment is rising and remains unable to raise money in the capital markets which it needs to unshackle itself from the aid packages.

As such, journalist Pavlos Tsimas says the election's outcome will be decided by the sentiment of fear or anger. He believes those who are afraid of suffering more than they have already will vote for the traditional parties, while those who are angry will vote for parties at the political edges. "It is very hard to predict which sentiment will prevail, fear or anger," he says.

How will the election impact on the eurozone's debt crisis plan?

Under the terms of the second bail-out, the leaders of the main parties were required to agree to continue to the austerity measures after the elections were held. However, the rise of the smaller parties has thrown doubt into the mix -- particularly LAOS, which left the existing coalition following disagreement over the second bailout.

Rise and fall of the euro

The election will therefore be under close scrutiny by European leaders who have injected so much cash into keeping Greece in the euro and the "European project" afloat.

Is Greece still at risk of leaving the euro?

The restructuring of the private sector debt gave some breathing space for the country, but its economy remains fragile and there is speculation further restructurings may be necessary.

Is Greek restructuring still not enough?

The debt crisis is also far from over, with fears now centered on Spain and Italy. If these economies -- the eurozone's third and forth biggest -- are sucked into the crisis fears around of the bloc's collapse will resurface.

If Greece exited the euro, it would be liberated from the eurozone's fixed exchange rate, allowing it to become a more competitive exporter and -- as it unshackles its currency -- an attractively cheap tourist destination.

But it would come with a heavy price. It would still leave Greece in debt and reliant on handouts that former eurozone partners would be less willing to supply. It would also mean Greeks would face higher prices for imported goods.

It is also likely to drive people out of their homeland as they seek to escape lower wages and higher taxes. This could set back the country's economic recovery by years.



http://edition.cnn.com/2012/04/12/business/greece-election-explainer/index.html

Siberyak
04-13-2012, 08:21 AM
what are your predictions for Greece for the rest of the year?

Turkophagos
05-06-2012, 10:21 AM
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-q2e9mvvsvgU/ToQy6kK5gWI/AAAAAAAAAC0/VKaME4eJ6U4/s1600/kke-stalin.jpg


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-hzz4v6aRpBM/T0FPOM2z4MI/AAAAAAAAIhc/V2B2hmfnBK4/s640/antarsia_620x310.jpg


http://turkeymacedonia.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/hrisi-avgi-neo-nazi.jpg?w=460&h=315



hy3DyPpxyv0

Thraex
05-06-2012, 07:51 PM
ATHENS (Dow Jones)--Greece's political landscape was dramatically recast Sunday after exit polls of the national elections showed that a leftist party, the Coalition of the Radical Left (Syriza), was set to take second place, trailing conservative New Democracy and relegating incumbent socialist Pasok to third place.

According to the single exit poll published as soon as polls closed in Greece, Syriza was set to get about 16% of the popular vote and securing it about 50 seats in Greece's 300-member parliament. New Democracy, the leading party, was seen getting around 20%.

Syriza was in fifth place with a mere 4.6% of the vote in the last national Greek election, held in 2009. Its leader, Alexis Tsipras, is a 37-year-old engineer who campaigned on a vocal anti-austerity agenda.

The party is a coalition of several factions, ranging from Communist to progressive-socialist and environmentalist groups.

Tsipras has been advocating an annulment of Greece's bailout agreement with its foreign creditors, the euro-zone countries and the International Monetary Fund. He has raged against the austerity measures and deep structural reforms demanded of Greece in exchange for hundreds of billions of euros in financial aid.

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20120506-700924.html

No Golden Dawn? And congratulations KKE on winning second place in the election. ;)

Thraex
05-06-2012, 07:58 PM
Hm it seems Golden Dawn won 7% of the votes... a black day for Greece.


ATHENS, Greece — The leader of an extreme-right, anti-immigrant party on course for shock success in Greece’s general elections Sunday lashed out at those he described as “traitors” responsible for the country’s financial crisis and said his party was ushering in a “revolution.”

The far-right Golden Dawn party is set to win 7 percent of the parliamentary vote, according to early projections, as Greeks punished the traditionally dominant parties who backed harsh austerity measures tied to debt-relief agreements.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/ap-interview-greek-extreme-right-leader-lashes-at-traitors-after-shock-election-success/2012/05/06/gIQAoOpC6T_story.html

Queen B
05-06-2012, 08:04 PM
No Golden Dawn? And congratulations KKE on winning second place in the election. ;)
Siriza is in second place, not KKE.
KKE is in 5th place

So far

ND 20.26%
Siriza 15.81%
Pasok 14.06%
Aneksartitoi Ellines 10.33%
KKE 8.39%
Golden Dawn 6.84%
Dimokratiki Aristera 5.99%

Flintlocke
05-06-2012, 08:06 PM
Syriza won second place, they're tame leftists. KKE won 8.5% like they do every time the last 40 yeats.

Γέλως
05-06-2012, 08:09 PM
Hm it seems Golden Dawn won 7% of the votes... a black day for Greece.
http://s.enet.gr/resources/2010-11/19-9-thumb-large.jpg

:cool:

Queen B
05-06-2012, 08:13 PM
Golden Dawn's votes from last election : 19.624 -> 0.29%
Golden Dawn's votes SO FAR (35,82 % of total votes ) 137.564 -> 6.84%

23 times more voters than they were in 2009.

Xenomorph
05-06-2012, 08:18 PM
Looks like a recipe for gridlock.

Thraex
05-06-2012, 08:26 PM
Siriza is in second place, not KKE.
KKE is in 5th place

So far

ND 20.26%
Siriza 15.81%
Pasok 14.06%
Aneksartitoi Ellines 10.33%
KKE 8.39%
Golden Dawn 6.84%
Dimokratiki Aristera 5.99%

I think Independent Greeks is a far more pragmatic party who will not surrender Greek national interests to Germany. Can't say the same for Golden Dawn. It is a racist party who would have every non-Greek thrown out of the country if given the chance.

ikki
05-06-2012, 08:31 PM
http://www.youtuberepeat.com/watch/?v=AtwUEBe1mro

A neverending Golden Dawn for Hellas!
o/

Queen B
05-06-2012, 08:32 PM
I think Independent Greeks is a far more pragmatic party who will not surrender Greek national interests to Germany. Can't say the same for Golden Dawn
The leader of Independent Greeks, is a former ND member.
So, I wouldn't be so sure about his resistance against Germany.
Though he has a good reputation, he is not someone ''new'', ''independent'' , one.
[QUOTE]. It is a racist party who would have every non-Greek thrown out of the country if given the chance.
Its a nationalist party, a party that wants any ILLEGAL immigrant, out of Greece, and there's nothing wrong with that, neither with a party that wants stronger borders to prevent illegal immigration enters.

Other countries, have far more right-winged parties and with way more high rates than Golden Dawn.

Icosahedron
05-06-2012, 08:44 PM
I think Independent Greeks is a far more pragmatic party who will not surrender Greek national interests to Germany. Can't say the same for Golden Dawn
The leader of Independent Greeks, is a former ND member.
So, I wouldn't be so sure about his resistance against Germany.
Though he has a good reputation, he is not someone ''new'', ''independent'' , one.

Its a nationalist party, a party that wants any ILLEGAL immigrant, out of Greece, and there's nothing wrong with that, neither with a party that wants stronger borders to prevent illegal immigration enters.

Other countries, have far more right-winged parties and with way more high rates than Golden Dawn.

I'm sorry but you have been brainwashed.

At their press conference this evening those thugs threw out any journalists who refused to stand to attention! http://www.newsit.gr/default.php?pname=Article&art_id=138079&catid=9

Xenomorph
05-06-2012, 08:52 PM
It seems to me that the Golden Dawn is doing the whole scapegoat thing instead of coming up with real solutions to Greek's economic problems. Cracking down on illegal immigration in and of itself isn't bad, but the GD seems to using the time honored "attack the other" strategy instead of working to fix systemic problems. With Greece being ruled more by extremist parties with diametrially opposed ideologies, I predict that the Greek government won't be able to get much practical work done for a while.

ikki
05-06-2012, 08:54 PM
I'm sorry but you have been brainwashed.

At their press conference this evening those thugs threw out any journalists who refused to stand to attention! http://www.newsit.gr/default.php?pname=Article&art_id=138079&catid=9

lol...

Probly was Dandelions boot in those degenerate journalists behinds!

Sokol
05-07-2012, 03:18 AM
It doesn't really matter. They still have to pay the debt and implement the austerity measures.

Vasconcelos
05-07-2012, 12:27 PM
It doesn't really matter. They still have to pay the debt and implement the austerity measures.

They don't, they can simply decide not to pay like others did before.
And austerity measures alone are useless, if the economy doesn't grow you're fucked...and austerity alone won't make it grow.


I know you don't like Greeks, but whatever..

Queen B
05-07-2012, 12:42 PM
I'm sorry but you have been brainwashed.

At their press conference this evening those thugs threw out any journalists who refused to stand to attention! http://www.newsit.gr/default.php?pname=Article&art_id=138079&catid=9

I am not a sheep to be brainwashed.

And that incident is totaly irrelevant of what I posted, which is, that they are nationalists


It seems to me that the Golden Dawn is doing the whole scapegoat thing instead of coming up with real solutions to Greek's economic problems. Cracking down on illegal immigration in and of itself isn't bad, but the GD seems to using the time honored "attack the other" strategy instead of working to fix systemic problems. With Greece being ruled more by extremist parties with diametrially opposed ideologies, I predict that the Greek government won't be able to get much practical work done for a while.

Gettin rid of illegals will give a relief to many different things in Greece

1) Less inmates in jails -> Less operational expenses
2) Non tax evasion / black market from bother workers and employers
3) Less criminality / less need for police certain areas

Also, many people voted for Golden Dawn, because they believe that they will achieve what Papadopoulos with Junta did.
No matter how bad the time was during Junta, most of today's infastracture projects were done that period, due to that unemployment was almost zero, and there were growth.
I have heard many people that lived through that period to say ''Whatever new roads and schools we saw, were built that period of time

Anyway, whatever the party of charge will be, the result is the same : No solution to the crisis:(


lol...

Probly was Dandelions boot in those degenerate journalists behinds!

:p:cool:

Onur
05-07-2012, 12:48 PM
At their press conference this evening those thugs threw out any journalists who refused to stand to attention! http://www.newsit.gr/default.php?pname=Article&art_id=138079&catid=9
I wouldn't expect anything else from that savage thugs. They are neo-nazi skinhead idiots with a gypsy looking leader. Probably he thinks himself like a junta dictator after they increased their support among Greeks.


And that incident is totaly irrelevant of what I posted, which is, that they are nationalists
Yes, you are a brainwashed by your state/church propaganda. Golden Dawn thugs are not nationalists by any of the standards. They are black geared, skinhead thugs who does nazi salute in every occasion. They are the lowest scum of your brainwashed society.


Also, many people voted for Golden Dawn, because they believe that they will achieve what Papadopoulos with Junta did.
No matter how bad the time was during Junta, most of today's infastracture projects were done that period, due to that unemployment was almost zero, and there were growth.
I have heard many people that lived through that period to say ''Whatever new roads and schools we saw, were built that period of time
These words of you are the proof of your brainwashed mind.

You miss fascist junta days of Greece? I pity for you Dandelion. You don't even aware that how your Junta fell down. They were going to be the cause of your destruction because they were about to start a war against Turkey after they invaded Cyprus.

Instead of thanking Turks for setting your people free from the 7 your old CIA backed fascist junta regime, you curse us and miss junta days.

Did you know that your junta was ordering tanks to enter university campuses in Greece and kill 1000s of students inside? But i am wasting my time here to remind them to you because it`s obvious that you are an hopeless case.

jerney
05-07-2012, 12:50 PM
Hm it seems Golden Dawn won 7% of the votes... a black day for Greece.

that party is no more embarrassing than the rest of the Greek parties to be honest

Queen B
05-07-2012, 01:40 PM
Yes, you are a brainwashed by your state/church propaganda. Golden Dawn thugs are not nationalists by any of the standards. They are black geared, skinhead thugs who does nazi salute in every occasion. They are the lowest scum of your brainwashed society.

1) Unlike you, I don't read bullshit (like the stupid translation of Elitis poem, and the hilarious thread about Samara's spot)
2) I am an Atheist, I couldn't care lest about church


These words of you are the proof of your brainwashed mind.

You miss fascist junta days of Greece? I pity for you Dandelion. You don't even aware that how your Junta fell down. They were going to be the cause of your destruction because they were about to start a war against Turkey after they invaded Cyprus.
Have you trouble reading Onur?
If you have a problem reading/understanding, tell me to be more specific next time.
What part of ''many people voted because...'' didn't underestand?
Did your eyes see any ''I did '' there, or any ''I'' reference?
:mmmm:
Open your eyes Onur and 1) make a research before you post 2) Read carefully 3) Read what is written, not what you want to read.



Instead of thanking Turks for setting your people free from the 7 your old CIA backed fascist junta regime, you curse us and miss junta days.

Did you know that your junta was ordering tanks to enter university campuses in Greece and kill 1000s of students inside? But i am wasting my time here to remind them to you because it`s obvious that you are an hopeless case.[/QUOTE]

Queen B
05-07-2012, 01:40 PM
that party is no more embarrassing than the rest of the Greek parties to be honest

Exactly.

Xenomorph
05-07-2012, 02:00 PM
Gettin rid of illegals will give a relief to many different things in Greece

1) Less inmates in jails -> Less operational expenses
2) Non tax evasion / black market from bother workers and employers
3) Less criminality / less need for police certain areas

These are good points. However, I think that a better tactic would be to focus on securing the border, thus isolating the illegal populations (legal immigrants wouldn't be affected). Prosecution and deportation of the worst offenders should happen, while the remainder should be forced to get jobs and be cut off of welfare if they don't seek employment. This would have the effect of the free loaders leaving Greece while the rest would become productive citizens and probably assimilate within a generation or two.


Also, many people voted for Golden Dawn, because they believe that they will achieve what Papadopoulos with Junta did.
No matter how bad the time was during Junta, most of today's infastracture projects were done that period, due to that unemployment was almost zero, and there were growth.
I have heard many people that lived through that period to say ''Whatever new roads and schools we saw, were built that period of time

The thing is, this is an incredibly defeatist attitude with the belief that "We need a dictator to get things done." I have nothing against Greece or the Greek people, but holding such views shows that the political system is rotted. Dictators may get things done, but only because they are forcing everyone else to do those things at the point of a gun. If you ask me, greater decentralization would be a better solution, with government money allocated to local communities who have a better idea of what practical things need to be done on the ground to improve the country. Now maybe this isn't realistic, as I don't know much about the Greek political system, but voting for a dictatorial party is not a solution.


Anyway, whatever the party of charge will be, the result is the same : No solution to the crisis:(

Things always get better eventually. The thing is, voting for extremist parties is almost never a good thing to do, because they usually just have their own petty prejudices and agendas to deal with, not the greater good of the country. Putting parties in power with diametrically opposed views only leads to legal gridlock and alot of yelling, no practical work.

Queen B
05-07-2012, 02:14 PM
These are good points. However, I think that a better tactic would be to focus on securing the border, thus isolating the illegal populations (legal immigrants wouldn't be affected). Prosecution and deportation of the worst offenders should happen, while the remainder should be forced to get jobs and be cut off of welfare if they don't seek employment. This would have the effect of the free loaders leaving Greece while the rest would become productive citizens and probably assimilate within a generation or two.

Golden Dawn already supports a higher military presence in borders and deportation of every illegal.


The thing is, this is an incredibly defeatist attitude with the belief that "We need a dictator to get things done." I have nothing against Greece or the Greek people, but holding such views shows that the political system is rotted. Dictators may get things done, but only because they are forcing everyone else to do those things at the point of a gun.

I agree on that as well.People are fed up and are feeling in danger.
When you are in a desperate position, do desperate things...


If you ask me, greater decentralization would be a better solution, with government money allocated to local communities who have a better idea of what practical things need to be done on the ground to improve the country. Now maybe this isn't realistic, as I don't know much about the Greek political system, but voting for a dictatorial party is not a solution.

This isn't realistic because Greek politicians are corrupted. It's not that Greece doesn't produce money, to use them to make the place better. Is that they don't use them to make things better.
See an example, Siemens scandal
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Siemens_scandal)


Things always get better eventually. The thing is, voting for extremist parties is almost never a good thing to do, because they usually just have their own petty prejudices and agendas to deal with, not the greater good of the country. Putting parties in power with diametrically opposed views only leads to legal gridlock and alot of yelling, no practical work.
The non-extremist parties, do exactly the same thing. Push their agendas, so it makes no different.

Let's wish that left-middle-right will find some common grounds to agree with, for the best of this country.

Thraex
05-07-2012, 02:54 PM
Let's be realistic guys and gals. Golden Dawn winning 7% of the parliament vote isn't going to change a thing. They may now have a voice in the parliament but their ability to do things is pretty much limited and no change from 2009. Most of the parliament power will be still concentrated within ND, PASOK and now Syriza. They still carry the knockout punch. Golden Dawn needs to win more than 12-15% to be able to form a leading coalition and to carry a knockout punch in policymaking.

That's not to say I now like the party. It was just yesterday that the leader of the Golden Dawn threw out journalists who didn't stand to attention! Utterly ridiculous. Jerney is right in saying the party isn't anymore embarrassing than other Greek political parties but I say at least they haven't taken a liking to neo-nazi and white nationalist regalia and salutes...

Γέλως
05-07-2012, 03:16 PM
Let's be realistic guys and gals. Golden Dawn winning 7% of the parliament vote isn't going to change a thing. They may now have a voice in the parliament but their ability to do things is pretty much limited and no change from 2009. Most of the parliament power will be still concentrated within ND, PASOK and now Syriza. They still carry the knockout punch. Golden Dawn needs to win more than 12-15% to be able to form a leading coalition and to carry a knockout punch in policymaking.
It would be catastrophic if they took over.

It was just yesterday that the leader of the Golden Dawn threw out journalists who didn't stand to attention! Utterly ridiculous. Jerney is right in saying the party isn't anymore embarrassing than other Greek political parties but I say at least they haven't taken a liking to neo-nazi and white nationalist regalia and salutes...
Here's the video of the incident:
yJesgmdpBTM
This is one of Golden Dawn's new parliamentarians:
Γιώργος Γερμένης or Kaiadas from the black metal band "Naer Mataron"

http://a4.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/67/3edd63f6a3a0ec939492abffad24c2d6/l.jpg
http://exadaktylos.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/germenis.jpg?w=464&h=287

Loki
05-07-2012, 04:04 PM
Greece election: EU and Germany firm on Athens bailout (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17975370)

The EU and Germany have stressed Greece must keep to the terms of the two EU/IMF bailouts, after a surge of voter support for anti-austerity parties.

The two main parties, New Democracy and Pasok, attracted less than a third of the vote, in an election plunging Greece into political uncertainty.

Chancellor Angela Merkel said Greece's reforms were of "utmost importance".

New Democracy leader Antonis Samaras will now face a struggle finding parties prepared to join a government.

With about 99% of votes counted, centre-right New Democracy (ND) is leading with 18.9%, down from 33.5% in 2009.

A radical left coalition, Syriza, came second with 16.8% and a party of ultra-nationalists - Golden Dawn - polled almost 7%.

Speaking to reporters on Monday, German government spokesman Steffen Seibert spelt out Berlin's position that "the agreed programmes must be adhered to". He added that Germany would support Athens in returning to competitiveness and financial stability, "whatever its government is".

That message was underlined by European Commission spokeswoman Pia Ahrenkilde Hansen, who said Brussels "hopes and expects that the future government of Greece will respect the engagement that Greece has entered into".

She said the Commission was ready to help Athens with its "ongoing reform agenda".

Any political instability in Greece may prompt fresh questions over the country's place in the eurozone.

News of the Greek vote and the election of Francois Hollande as France's next president sent the euro falling to its lowest level against the dollar since January. Shares on the Athens stock market tumbled, with the Athex index sliding more than 7% in morning trading.

Anthropologique
05-07-2012, 04:10 PM
Greece needs a Brady Bond restructuring that includes a major debt forgiveness component. After that, egress from the Euro is a must.

The Greek population is suffering terribly because of wholesale governmental corruption and the criminal activities of a few banksters and corporate bigwigs.

Onur
05-07-2012, 05:12 PM
This is one of Golden Dawn's new parliamentarians:
Γιώργος Γερμένης or Kaiadas from the black metal band "Naer Mataron"
I thought you are kidding but i checked from google and yes, you are right !!! :D:D:D

I am not sure what Giorgos Germenis can offer for your economical crisis but maybe he might be useful for scaring away Afghan immigrants with his look and brutal vocal :lol:

Onur
05-07-2012, 06:11 PM
Here is the press conference speech of the gypsy looking leader of Golden Dawn, extremely aggressive for some reason and obviously mimicking Hitler`s first election speech in 1930s. He dedicates their victory to his black-geared youth and says that from now on, the new golden dawn of the hellenism is rising;

E4AXJx3IzdY


Absolutely pathetic...

jerney
05-07-2012, 06:19 PM
Here is the press conference speech of the gypsy looking leader of Golden Dawn

I guess that proves they're not racialists? ;)

Queen B
05-07-2012, 06:30 PM
Here is the press conference speech of the gypsy looking leader of Golden Dawn, extremely aggressive for some reason and obviously mimicking Hitler`s first election speech in 1930s. He dedicates their victory to his black-geared youth and says that from now on, the new golden dawn of the hellenism is rising;

He has the same style, and almost the identical voice of George Papadopoulos.

I guess that proves they're not racialists? ;)
:wink

Petros Houhoulis
05-07-2012, 07:43 PM
Here is the press conference speech of the gypsy looking leader of Golden Dawn, extremely aggressive for some reason and obviously mimicking Hitler`s first election speech in 1930s. He dedicates their victory to his black-geared youth and says that from now on, the new golden dawn of the hellenism is rising;

E4AXJx3IzdY


Absolutely pathetic...

I agree, he reminds me of your very own Grey wolves:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_wolves


The Idealist Youth (Turkish: Ülkücü Gençlik), commonly known as Grey Wolves (Turkish: Bozkurtlar), is an ultra-nationalist[1] neo-fascist[2][3][4][5][6][7][8] youth organization. It is accused of terrorism.[2][4][5] According to Turkish authorities, the organization carried out 694 murders between 1974–1980.[9]

The Golden Dawn (Hrisi Avgi) has a long way to catch up with the usual Turkish trail of corpses...

Petros Houhoulis
05-07-2012, 07:44 PM
I guess that proves they're not racialists? ;)

Basically, these sort of people do not know what they are.

Flintlocke
05-07-2012, 08:46 PM
Back then they preached different things...

Περιοδικό «ΧΡΥΣΗ ΑΥΓΗ»,περίοδος Β' α.τ. 8,15 Οκτωβρίου 1986

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-CyTH2gRowaw/TkKb5BTDaZI/AAAAAAAALbo/JWTrfG0_muw/s1600/001.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-5BPr-o6ESjI/TkKb_NbbHRI/AAAAAAAALbs/2g4ZabtIcCU/s1600/002.jpg

Petros Houhoulis
05-07-2012, 08:56 PM
Back then they preached different things...

Περιοδικό «ΧΡΥΣΗ ΑΥΓΗ»,περίοδος Β' α.τ. 8,15 Οκτωβρίου 1986

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-CyTH2gRowaw/TkKb5BTDaZI/AAAAAAAALbo/JWTrfG0_muw/s1600/001.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-5BPr-o6ESjI/TkKb_NbbHRI/AAAAAAAALbs/2g4ZabtIcCU/s1600/002.jpg

Do you actually suggest that they should have a tendency to follow the same theories over time? I would consider it VERY DIFFICULT on their part...

The Lawspeaker
05-07-2012, 10:45 PM
wY3u_tj6UBQ

This makes my hair stand on end.

Sokol
05-08-2012, 12:18 AM
Here is the press conference speech of the gypsy looking leader of Golden Dawn, extremely aggressive for some reason and obviously mimicking Hitler`s first election speech in 1930s. He dedicates their victory to his black-geared youth and says that from now on, the new golden dawn of the hellenism is rising;

E4AXJx3IzdY


Absolutely pathetic...

The greek parliament is now a collection of communists and fascists..what a joke!

El Gre
05-08-2012, 02:01 AM
I thought you are kidding but i checked from google and yes, you are right !!! :D:D:D

I am not sure what Giorgos Germenis can offer for your economical crisis but maybe he might be useful for scaring away Afghan immigrants with his look and brutal vocal :lol:

I was looking at the other forum (where you post the same bs as u do here) and said to myself where did the carpet seller manage to find that information and know i see you just copy pasted it from this poster Gelos, On second thought now i see you copy pasted the video he put up as well !!!

El Gre
05-08-2012, 02:25 AM
Let's be realistic guys and gals. Golden Dawn winning 7% of the parliament vote isn't going to change a thing. They may now have a voice in the parliament but their ability to do things is pretty much limited and no change from 2009.

Make up your mind, earlier you said it was a sad day for Greece because they got 7% of the vote.

The fact that KKE and the left leaning Syriza got around 22% combined should tell you there are more leftists than far right nationalists in Greece.

Golden Dawn is meaningless in the big scheme of things and they probably got a bit more votes this time around because of thier stance on illegal immigrants.

I can understand why you guys publicize them so much ever since they spoiled your little book/dictionary event, you remember the one where like 8 people showed and that included guest speakers lol

Guapo
05-08-2012, 02:45 AM
:coffee:

Sokol
05-08-2012, 03:15 AM
Make up your mind, earlier you said it was a sad day for Greece because they got 7% of the vote.

The fact that KKE and the left leaning Syriza got around 22% combined should tell you there are more leftists than far right nationalists in Greece.

Golden Dawn is meaningless in the big scheme of things and they probably got a bit more votes this time around because of thier stance on illegal immigrants.

I can understand why you guys publicize them so much ever since they spoiled your little book/dictionary event, you remember the one where like 8 people showed and that included guest speakers lol

You mean this incident http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/6982/2/

Why would they do such a thing if they didn't think it was a threat?

El Gre
05-08-2012, 03:41 AM
I was pissed off as well that they broke up your little event . I even tried to get tickets but they were sold out. Those 10 spots filled up fast.
I was hoping to find out what the Greek word is for ORO and DASKAL . LOLski

Sokol
05-08-2012, 03:46 AM
I was hoping to find out what the Greek word is for ORO and DASKAL

You should already know Grkomance. You don't need the dictionary since you know your mother-tongue very well. You just need to wake up from your Hellenic brainwashing.

A little something to help you > http://giorgi10.tripod.com/id54.htm

Queen B
05-08-2012, 06:40 AM
ND was unable to cooparate and make a coalition government with the rest of the parties.

In 2 days, the president will ask from Siriza, if they can make a coalition government.

Vasconcelos
05-08-2012, 11:44 AM
In 2 days, the president will ask from Siriza, if they can make a coalition government.

Do you think they'll be able to make an agreement with other parties?

Illirico
05-08-2012, 11:54 AM
Nice image:)


http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/545965_378659375502514_172996036_n.jpg

Loki
05-08-2012, 02:58 PM
Nice image:)


http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/545965_378659375502514_172996036_n.jpg

I don't think Merkel is the weaker party in this. In fact, Germany does not have much to gain from helping Greece really. They've done as much as they could.

The Greek political spectrum is entirely fragmented, unfortunately:

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/60086000/gif/_60086377_greece_elect_results_464gr.gif

I don't know what's going to happen next but Greece will probably lose. :(

Romanion
05-08-2012, 03:29 PM
ND was unable to cooparate and make a coalition government with the rest of the parties.

In 2 days, the president will ask from Siriza, if they can make a coalition government.

How will Siriza get enough seats to form a government?

Onur
05-08-2012, 03:35 PM
Leftists can form a government but they need PASOK`s and IG`s support. If they cant get the support, then there will be new elections in Greece.

I guess new elections would bring more votes to the communists and fascists. Not that i am saying this because i am a Turk but i have major doubts about Greece`s future. I predict anarchism in there followed by a new fascist junta.

If all the leftists (KKE, Syriza, DL) can form an unity party for the next elections, then they might get enough votes to reach 151 seats in the parliament. Maybe this is the only chance of Greece for survival.

Romanion
05-08-2012, 03:50 PM
[QUOTE]I guess new elections would bring more votes to the communists and fascists. Not that i am saying this because i am a Turk but i have major doubts about Greece`s future. I predict anarchism in there followed by a new fascist junta.

Not that I'm saying this because I'm Greek, but you're an idiot.


If all the leftists (KKE, Syriza, DL) can form an unity party for the next elections, then they might get enough votes to reach 151 seats in the parliament. Maybe this is the only chance of Greece for survival.

Or ND can form a coalition with PASOK.

Loki
05-08-2012, 03:53 PM
How will Siriza get enough seats to form a government?

Greek election: Syriza seeks anti-austerity coalition (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17986065)

The leader of Greece's left-wing Syriza bloc has begun attempts to assemble a government after the party that won the most votes failed to form a coalition.

Alexis Tsipras, whose bloc came second, aims to put together a cabinet that will reject austerity measures imposed as part of the EU's bailout deal.

Vasconcelos
05-08-2012, 03:58 PM
I guess new elections would bring more votes to the communists and fascists. Not that i am saying this because i am a Turk but i have major doubts about Greece`s future. I predict anarchism in there followed by a new fascist junta.

I honestly believe most greeks feel ashamed the Golden Dawn got so many votes..

iNird
05-08-2012, 04:05 PM
This is probably a stupid question but how did ND get 108 (over 1/3 of the total seats) seats while only getting 18.85% of the votes? Is it because they won most districts? Is it due to parties receiving under 3% of the votes not securing a seat? What am i missing?

Romanion
05-08-2012, 04:06 PM
Greek election: Syriza seeks anti-austerity coalition (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17986065)

The leader of Greece's left-wing Syriza bloc has begun attempts to assemble a government after the party that won the most votes failed to form a coalition.

Alexis Tsipras, whose bloc came second, aims to put together a cabinet that will reject austerity measures imposed as part of the EU's bailout deal.

The numbers don't add up though, you need 151 seats to form a government. They would need multiple parties all with very conflicting political views to form a government, one that will be very unstable. ND could form a government with PASOK or even Siriza and be very stable. I think ND understands that if they form a coalition with PASOK there will be alot of unrest so they will allow Siriza to try and fail to form a government, ND will then form one with the PASOK or Siriza.

Romanion
05-08-2012, 04:07 PM
This is probably a stupid question but how did ND get 108 (over 1/3 of the total seats) seats while only getting 18.85% of the votes? Is it because they won most districts? Is it due to parties receiving under 3% of the votes not securing a seat? What am i missing?

In Greek politics the party that gets the highest number of votes gets a "bonus" of 50 seats. It is meant to introduce stability in the system. Whether it works or not is debatable.

Loki
05-08-2012, 04:07 PM
The numbers don't add up though, you need 151 seats to form a government. They would need multiple parties all with very conflicting political views to form a government, one that will be very unstable. ND could form a government with PASOK or even Siriza and be very stable. I think ND understands that if they form a coalition with PASOK there will be alot of unrest so they will allow Siriza to try and fail to form a government, ND will then form one with the PASOK or Siriza.

Yes that's the point ... the only sure thing here is instability.

iNird
05-08-2012, 04:09 PM
In Greek politics the party that gets the highest number of votes gets a "bonus" of 50 seats. It is meant to introduce stability in the system. Whether it works or not is debatable.

Interesting.

PS:

Not sure if it has been posted but here's an interactive map with the results of the 2012 elections:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/interactive/2012/may/06/greece-elections-results-map?newsfeed=true

Flintlocke
05-08-2012, 04:10 PM
I honestly believe most greeks feel ashamed the Golden Dawn got so many votes..

Nobody feels ashamed of anything, the votes didn't come from outer space the people voted them in. Say what you want about the Golden Dawn but they managed to get into every newspaper headline in all western countries with that little video, that's the best marketing ever. They are very smart and cunning and know exactly what they're doing.

Loki
05-08-2012, 04:11 PM
Nobody feels ashamed of anything, the votes didn't come from outer space the people voted them in. Say what you want about the Golden Dawn but they managed to get into every newspaper headline in all western countries with that little video, that's the best marketing ever. They are very smart and cunning and know exactly what they're doing.

The Communists have even more votes than Golden Dawn.

Flintlocke
05-08-2012, 04:15 PM
The Communists have even more votes than Golden Dawn.

The Communists get 8-9% in every election for the last 40 years. That's why nobody talks about them because it isn't really news.

Romanion
05-08-2012, 04:18 PM
Yes that's the point ... the only sure thing here is instability.

Maybe, but there are options. A government will not form without ND. Who the second party will be is up for debate. ND with PASOK will be bad because they are the coaltion government that signed up for the austarity and the people won't like that. If ND teams up with Siriza that would be the best option, but Siriza will try to form a government without ND for now. It could take a week before a govenrment is decided.

Onur
05-08-2012, 04:38 PM
Not that I'm saying this because I'm Greek, but you're an idiot.

Or ND can form a coalition with PASOK.
You are the idiot one because despite the fact that you a Greek, you cant comprehend the election results in your own country.

PASOK and ND`s support dropped by 46% comparing the previous elections. What is that means to you? It means people doesn't want them to govern Greece anymore. So, PASOK+ND government is some kind of utopia atm. If they pursuit that utopia again, then my prediction of anarchy and junta for Greece would be a quite imminent fact, even before 2013.

Loki
05-08-2012, 04:42 PM
If they pursuit that utopia again, then my prediction of anarchy and junta for Greece would be a quite imminent fact, even before 2013.

You may be right. It is hard to see a viable solution out of this quagmire.

Romanion
05-08-2012, 04:45 PM
You are the idiot one because despite the fact that you a Greek, you cant comprehend the election results in your own country.

PASOK and ND`s support dropped by 46% comparing the previous elections. What is that means to you? It means people doesn't want them to govern Greece anymore. So, PASOK+ND government is some kind of utopia atm. If they pursuit that utopia again, then my prediction of anarchy and junta for Greece would be a quite imminent fact, even before 2013.

Pasok took a beating which I am happy for but ND came out of top, even if they got less votes. ND has over 100 seats, it is impossible for a government to form without them. You thinking a junta is comming tells me you don't understand the origins of the previous junta.

Petros Houhoulis
05-08-2012, 07:24 PM
You are the idiot one because despite the fact that you a Greek, you cant comprehend the election results in your own country.

PASOK and ND`s support dropped by 46% comparing the previous elections. What is that means to you? It means people doesn't want them to govern Greece anymore. So, PASOK+ND government is some kind of utopia atm. If they pursuit that utopia again, then my prediction of anarchy and junta for Greece would be a quite imminent fact, even before 2013.

Maybe the idiot is the one who thinks that Greece is some sort of Turkey where the Generals had the habit of running the place for ages, irrespectively of who was winning the elections.

Basically there was no upheaval during the elections, not a single incident. Nobody was injured or died in the process, and the troops remain quietly in their barracks. There weren't even the usual protests, which are very far from anarchy either you like it or not.

For the moment more people are getting killed in Turkey for whatever reason than in Greece - although we have a spike in suicides, but not really in homicides.

Petros Houhoulis
05-08-2012, 08:08 PM
You may be right. It is hard to see a viable solution out of this quagmire.

Oh, we are going to have elections once more for sure. The first projected date is June 17. Meanwhile those who rushed to blabber that Samaras shall be cornered in the E.U. or in NATO or wherever shall realize soon that the Europeans - and perhaps even the Americans - shall do everything possible to bring Samaras to power.

Soon enough two or three major poles shall be formed in the Greek political scenery. One shall certainly centered around New Democracy and it shall be composed of the Center-Right. Another shall be centered around Syriza and composed of the Left. A most probable third one shall be centered around Pasok and composed of the Center. It is also possible that Pasok shall be forced to collaborate with either the New Democracy party or the Syriza party in a wider pole, leaving only two major contestants.

My prediction is that the Golden Dawn shall be defused, but the beneficiary shall be the Independent Greeks and not New Democracy.

Meanwhile the Liberal ragtags (or so called liberals, because they are not very convincing at anything) who gathered ~6.5% of the votes in three separate parties shall be sucked up by the New Democracy party partially because of their fear towards Hrisi Avgi, partially because of the pressure from Europe which is mounting at the moment. Add 6.5% to 18.85% and you get a respectable 25.35%

Karatzaferis' LAOS shall probably follow the same path, adding another 2.9% reaching a total of 28.25%

Syriza shall probably become the other pole sucking up the Ecologist-Greens of 2.93% and Antarsya of 1.19% combined to his 16.78% shall reach a 20.90%

The questions are:

What shall happen to Pasok, it shall collapse or form an alliance with New Democracy bringing it to a whopping 38.53%, or bounce back by absorbing the Democratic lefts' 6.11% if the latter does not join Syriza instead or simply campaign on its' own again (the most likely outcome)

Shall Panos Kammenos' Independent Greeks manage to outmaneuver New Democracy on national issues like the immigrants and the relations with neighboring countries? In any case Kammenos shall force the conviction of many more cronies from either Pasok or New Democracy for fraud against the Greek state. Shall Samaras manage to steal his audience by some spectacular move? There are going to be a lot of skirmishes in this arena, but we can be sure that Kammenos' party shall definately campain on its' own in the next elections. They might shrink by losing votes to New Democracy or boost their numbers by sucking up large chunks of Hrisi Avgi. They shall have to change tune in the long term because they do not seem to support the formation of any government, and the vote towards them shall be deemed useless if they don't manage to come to terms with either New Democracy or Syriza at least towards some sort of future collaboration.

The Communist party shall collapse very soon. After the meteoric rise of Syriza it won't be able to sustain its' force. It remains uncertain whether it shall lose most of its' (younger) voters to Pasok or Syriza, perhaps even New Democracy or the Independent Greeks. The old die hards shall keep voting for it, but they have no future whatsoever.

Golden Dawn shall reduce its' strength to smaller numbers, probably still into parliament but with half its' strength. Many of those who voted for it did it out of pretest and thought it would get no more than 2%. They already have a change of heart.

The Democratic left could stick to its' guns (and shall be rewarded for doing so under the table from many Europeans who seek to diminish Syriza) but it could also either join Syriza or Pasok. It is too early to predict.

We are going to have a long summer, and a lot of cooking in the European circles about Greece. They won't change the stability pact for one iota, but they shall bring development projects and the national issues of Greece in the forefront, either if they like it or not...

Queen B
05-08-2012, 08:44 PM
Do you think they'll be able to make an agreement with other parties?
Not really.
I don't think ND will accept, neither KKE, and Chrysi avgi is not invited, so most likely no.

I don't think Merkel is the weaker party in this. In fact, Germany does not have much to gain from helping Greece really. They've done as much as they could.

Germany will lose much more than Greece, actually, if we bankrupt :wink


I predict anarchism in there followed by a new fascist junta.
:lol00002:
Neither anarchism, nor fascist Junta.
You can keep dreaming though.


If all the leftists (KKE, Syriza, DL) can form an unity party for the next elections, then they might get enough votes to reach 151 seats in the parliament. Maybe this is the only chance of Greece for survival.
KKE have said that won't agree on anything.

This is probably a stupid question but how did ND get 108 (over 1/3 of the total seats) seats while only getting 18.85% of the votes? Is it because they won most districts? Is it due to parties receiving under 3% of the votes not securing a seat? What am i missing?
First party gets 50 seats as bonuses.
Yes, the voting system is shitty.

Onur
05-08-2012, 08:50 PM
:lol00002:
Neither anarchism, nor fascist Junta.
You can keep dreaming though.
You said that you are missing fascist junta days before, so it is your dream, not mine.

Onur
05-08-2012, 09:49 PM
Here is an interesting thing;

Golden Dawn is the Greece`s neo-nazi party. So, they are obviously white supremacists and protectors of Europe from the invasion Asian hordes aka Turks, right?

But the irony is; I think it`s quite possible that if the Golden Dawn`s leader walks around Berlin streets, he might have get killed by a neo-nazi, mistaken him as an Asian immigrant just as happened to Greeks in Germany before;

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5pWuexhx7NM/T5upSpbWL3I/AAAAAAAABII/mwB6xdLD78w/s1600/NikosMichaloliakos.jpg

Queen B
05-08-2012, 09:58 PM
Here is an interesting thing;
Golden Dawn is the Greece`s neo-nazi party. So, they are obviously white supremacists and protectors of Europe from the invasion Asian hordes aka Turks, right?

That's the problem with your theory.
Golden Dawn isn't a neo-Nazi party but an ultra-nationalist party.
If that was the case, only ''Aryan'' looking Greeks would be part of it.

Onur
05-08-2012, 10:48 PM
Golden Dawn isn't a neo-Nazi party but an ultra-nationalist party.
If that was the case, only ''Aryan'' looking Greeks would be part of it.
Then why their leader and supporters keep doing nazi salute both in Athens city council meetings and in the streets of Greece?

www.keeptalkinggreece.com/2011/01/19/nazi-salute-in-athens-city-council-video/


I feel like you are going to tell me that they are doing this to honor the salute of antique indians !!!

Vasconcelos
05-08-2012, 10:52 PM
Then why their leader and supporters keep doing nazi salute both in Athens city council meetings and in the streets of Greece?

www.keeptalkinggreece.com/2011/01/19/nazi-salute-in-athens-city-council-video/


I feel like you are going to tell me that they are doing this to honor the salute of antique indians !!!

Making the "roman salute" alone isn't enough to make you a neo-nazi, even if it's a bad omen.

jerney
05-08-2012, 10:55 PM
Then why their leader and supporters keep doing nazi salute both in Athens city council meetings and in the streets of Greece?

www.keeptalkinggreece.com/2011/01/19/nazi-salute-in-athens-city-council-video/

I feel like you are going to tell me that they are doing this to honor the salute of antique indians !!!


When the 4th of August Regime took power in Greece with the coup by Ioannis Metaxas in 1936, among the fascist traditions to be adopted by the regime was the fascist salute, which became the official way of saluting officials. It was first adopted by the National Youth Organization, but was later adopted by others within the government as well as common people in support of the regime

Though obviously even if it's not your intention, the first reaction you will get out of people is 'neo nazism' when doing that salute.

Queen B
05-08-2012, 10:56 PM
Then why their leader and supporters keep doing nazi salute both in Athens city council meetings and in the streets of Greece?

www.keeptalkinggreece.com/2011/01/19/nazi-salute-in-athens-city-council-video/

I feel like you are going to tell me that they are doing this to honor the salute of antique indians !!!

First of all, this is not a Nazi salute.
In the Nazi salute, the hand is in straight line, while Michaloliako's palm is turning upwards.
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01504/salute_1504842c.jpg

Anyway, this is minimal correction, because many Chrisi Avgi followers are doing to actual Nazi Salute anyway.
Copying the ideology, doesn't make them actual Nazis.
Just like all communists don't follow the same principles or ways/paths, same goes with the far-rights, or even the ''Nazi'' likes.

Chrisi Avgi is anti-mnimoniac, and Chrysi avgi doesn't follow the Aryan ideology.

Le duc d'Abrantès
05-08-2012, 11:04 PM
Greece will go into elections again. The outcome will not be much different from the one of this election. In the midst of turmoil, and with Germany pressing the so-called "troika" not to release the next tranche, Greece will be put out of the eurozone and the European Union. Overrun by anarchy, a military coup is going to seize power in Greece and a civil war is likely to erupt between factions that will form.

Queen B
05-08-2012, 11:07 PM
Greece will go into elections again. The outcome will not be much different from the one of this election. In the midst of turmoil, and with Germany pressing the so-called "troika" not to release the next tranche, Greece will be put out of the eurozone and the European Union. I am pretty sure they will go into election as well.
I am not sure tho that results won't be different.
All those who votes the parties that didn't enter parliament, most likely will vote one of those who did, and the percent isn't that small. I think the percent is about 18%



Overrun by anarchy, a military coup is going to seize power in Greece and a civil war is likely to erupt between factions that will form.
That's not going to happen.

The Lawspeaker
05-08-2012, 11:10 PM
That's not going to happen.
Shame. It could use a Carnation Revolution and so could the rest of Europe.

Vasconcelos
05-08-2012, 11:13 PM
Shame. It could use a Carnation Revolution and so could the rest of Europe.

Yes, just make sure the day after the revolution is different..

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47526
Just take a look at the graphs and ignore the text, you'll get the point.

Yaroslav
05-08-2012, 11:23 PM
Greece will become either Communist or Nazi state, we shall see. Greeks brought it on themselves by joining the EU, I am praying to God Tomislav Nikolic wins Serbian election, his party won the parliament there is hope, but Greece is done..

Vasconcelos
05-08-2012, 11:24 PM
Greece will become either Communist or Nazi state, we shall see.

I find that hard to believe.

Queen B
05-08-2012, 11:32 PM
I find that hard to believe.
Impossible actually.

It will be either mild-left (different from communist), or a middle-something.

Nothing more .

Loki
05-09-2012, 01:58 AM
Golden Dawn is a fascist/neo nazi outfit by almost every sense of the meaning. I really hope they never achieve any sort of power .. for the good of Greece.

PeacefulCaribbeanDutch
05-09-2012, 02:05 AM
I hear they elected 20 neo nazi's and communists into office lol, it's going to be insane

and some are purposing on putting "mines" around the border to stop immigrants.. lol

Aces High
05-09-2012, 06:22 AM
Greece is done..

Greece isnt done,the Greeks will get over this as they ahve been through other crisis in their history and prevail.
Whats important is that people will start actually to wake up and see that they dont have to be shackled to the banks in perpetutity due to the disgusting missmanagement of previous governments that are in cahoots with the banks.
I wish the Greeks well.................and i hope the fucking banks tumble.

The Lawspeaker
05-09-2012, 06:29 AM
and i hope the fucking banks tumble.
And by then we will need someone like Alb Pierrepoint. A quick trial and short shrift for the whole bloody lot of them. :thumbs up

Aces High
05-09-2012, 06:31 AM
And by then we will need someone like Alb Pierrepoint. A quick trial and short shrift for the whole bloody lot of them. :thumbs up

I prefer a French Revolution scenario were they are ripped apart by a howling mob as they try to make good their escape.

The Lawspeaker
05-09-2012, 06:34 AM
I prefer a French Revolution scenario were they are ripped apart by a howling mob as they try to make good their escape.
Meh. I don't like messy scenario's. A kind of Nuremberg Trial and a wave of hangings on Brussels' Grand Place (on live TV) would do nicely. It would set an example Europe and the world will never forget.

Aces High
05-09-2012, 06:37 AM
Meh. I don't like messy scenario's. A kind of Nuremberg Trial and a wave of hangings on Brussels' Grand Place (on live TV) would do nicely. It would set an example Europe and the world will never forget.

I dont know,a trial gives them some sort of legitimacy that they dont deserve.

Two behind the ear in the gutter seems more appropriate for them to me.

The Lawspeaker
05-09-2012, 06:41 AM
I dont know,a trial gives them some sort of legitimacy that they dont deserve.

Two behind the ear in the gutter seems more appropriate for them to me.
You're right.. forget about that trial as it is too costly anyway and why should we spend all that much money on people that wanted to destroy our legal system, democracy, prosperity and our entire way of life and that's why those fuckers should not enjoy the benefits of the system they wanted to destroy. Just build the gallows on a big square, bring in the TV camera's and start hanging them all in groups of 10 or so.

Le duc d'Abrantès
05-09-2012, 10:36 AM
I am pretty sure they will go into election as well.
I am not sure tho that results won't be different.
All those who votes the parties that didn't enter parliament, most likely will vote one of those who did, and the percent isn't that small. I think the percent is about 18%

So what do you think those people will vote for? PASOK, ND or SYRIZA? Taking into account that most of those parties who didn't enter the parliament are leftist, I think that either PASOK or SYRIZA will get a higher voting count in a new election. Either way, looking at the election result I think that most of the Greeks are rejecting both parties who have been ruling Greece in the last few decades, so I'm afraid any party will not get enough votes to get a majority to rule alone - and it seems that no one is willing to a political consensus to govern. Do you still see as possible a coalition between ND and PASOK, or maybe PASOK and SYRIZA, in the dawn of a new election?

Queen B
05-09-2012, 11:11 AM
So what do you think those people will vote for? PASOK, ND or SYRIZA? Taking into account that most of those parties who didn't enter the parliament are leftist, I think that either PASOK or SYRIZA will get a higher voting count in a new election. Either way, looking at the election result I think that most of the Greeks are rejecting both parties who have been ruling Greece in the last few decades, so I'm afraid any party will get enough votes to get a majority to rule alone - and it seems that no one is willing to a political consensus to govern.

I think that most of votes will go to siriza so they will manage to overpower ND and get the +50 seats instead.
Also, Aneksartitoi Ellines (the 4th party) will get more votes,too.


Do you still see as possible a coalition between ND and PASOK, or maybe PASOK and SYRIZA, in the dawn of a new election?
ND and Pasok, yes, its possible, but its not enough to form a goverment with 151 seats.
No, for the rest, I don't think.

Greece isnt done,the Greeks will get over this as they ahve been through other crisis in their history and prevail.
Whats important is that people will start actually to wake up and see that they dont have to be shackled to the banks in perpetutity due to the disgusting missmanagement of previous governments that are in cahoots with the banks.
I wish the Greeks well.................and i hope the fucking banks tumble.
Thanks,.

Its true, we have been through worst and we are still here :D


Golden Dawn is a fascist/neo nazi outfit by almost every sense of the meaning. I really hope they never achieve any sort of power .. for the good of Greece.

Its a fascist/Ultra nationalist.

Petros Houhoulis
05-09-2012, 04:29 PM
Greece will go into elections again. The outcome will not be much different from the one of this election. In the midst of turmoil, and with Germany pressing the so-called "troika" not to release the next tranche, Greece will be put out of the eurozone and the European Union. Overrun by anarchy, a military coup is going to seize power in Greece and a civil war is likely to erupt between factions that will form.

Nope. Traditionally a fracture of the political scenery results to unelectability resulting to more elections, polarisation and eventually a government.

Syriza (or actually its' main component, Synaspismos) has been the victim of this process in the past. This time around the feeling is that the tables shall be reversed and Pasok will become the victim of that trend.

Neither of them matter. For the first time in ages the Center-Right has garnered more electoral support from the Center-Left in Greece. Syriza is very weak at attracting voters from the right, New Democracy is very weak at attracting voters from the left. Most likely New Democracy shall sweep the Right wing and liberal vote, while Syriza shall sweep the Left wing vote. Pasok shall remain in the Center, shrink and then join New Democracy as a means of keeping Greece in Europe and the Euro.

Meanwhile we have developments with the Independent Greeks which might even allow the formation of a government with the existing composition of the parliament.

Petros Houhoulis
05-09-2012, 04:33 PM
Golden Dawn is a fascist/neo nazi outfit by almost every sense of the meaning. I really hope they never achieve any sort of power .. for the good of Greece.

There is no question of them gaining power, not with 7%. Nobody is collaborating with them. Now, if New Democracy starts pilfering their members of parliament in order to form a government, I won't be surprised. Nevertheless, they'll try this to the Independent Greeks first, as they are conceived an "easier" target.

Petros Houhoulis
05-09-2012, 04:38 PM
I hear they elected 20 neo nazi's and communists into office lol, it's going to be insane

and some are purposing on putting "mines" around the border to stop immigrants.. lol

There used to be anti-personnel mines until about a decade ago. Then the immigrants begun to arrive and the Turkish army was leading them straight into the landmine areas, which were clearly marked (but the immigrants had no idea of what is a mine or a minefield).

Finally Greece decided to sign the treaty for anti-personnel mines and lift its' anti-personnel mines from its' minefields.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibition_of_the_Use,_Stockpiling,_Production_an d_Transfer_of_Anti-Personnel_Mines_and_on_their_Destruction

What was planned was a wall covering the flattest part of the borders with Turkey. This was not materialized either.

Hess
05-09-2012, 09:42 PM
It never ceases to amaze me how there are some people who actually believe that spending MORE when they are already buried in debt is a good idea :shrug:

Queen B
05-09-2012, 09:48 PM
It never ceases to amaze me how there are some people who actually believe that spending MORE when they are already buried in debt is a good idea :shrug:
Because if Greece's defaults, it will affect them more than it would affect Greece :cool:

Yaroslav
05-09-2012, 10:02 PM
Dandelion why are you defending neo-Nazis didn't Nazis rape your country merely 70 years ago?

Queen B
05-09-2012, 10:04 PM
Dandelion why are you defending neo-Nazis didn't Nazis rape your country merely 70 years ago?
They are ultra-nationalists, its a difference , duh...

Azrael
05-09-2012, 10:18 PM
Congratulation to the greeks :thumb001:

All heils to the golden dawn !!!!!

Hess
05-09-2012, 11:15 PM
Because if Greece's defaults, it will affect them more than it would affect Greece :cool:

that's the problem with the Euro- the economies of Europe are too interconnected.

Greece spent money it didn't have on its excessive welfare programs and corrupt political infrastructure, and now it should bear the price of its actions.

Vasconcelos
05-09-2012, 11:20 PM
that's the problem with the Euro- the economies of Europe are too interconnected.

Greece spent money it didn't have on its excessive welfare programs and corrupt political infrastructure, and now it should bear the price of its actions.

Except the ones who're paying it, the common people, have no fault nor control over what the governments did in the back of everyone.

Yaroslav
05-09-2012, 11:27 PM
They are ultra-nationalists, its a difference , duh...

You are only fooling yourself.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/17/Meandros_flag.svg

http://www.reinform.nl/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/63469748362266000061B43A3F07CF5D687E66FA6D60B22163 .jpg

Yaroslav
05-09-2012, 11:28 PM
By the way I support Independent Greeks.

Queen B
05-09-2012, 11:33 PM
Greece spent money it didn't have on its excessive welfare programs and corrupt political infrastructure, and now it should bear the price of its actions.
If any other country that is in fault bear the price of their actions, I agree.

But if not, then I would be happy if we default, even today :D:cool:


By the way I support Independent Greeks.
You don't vote though, Greek do :wink

Yaroslav
05-09-2012, 11:39 PM
You don't vote though, Greek do :wink

Yes and Independent Greeks are more popular than Golden Dawn and got more votes. So Greeks agree with me. Atheists are minorities in Greece so you don't represent Greece.

Queen B
05-09-2012, 11:48 PM
Yes and Independent Greeks are more popular than Golden Dawn and got more votes. So Greeks agree with me. Atheists are minorities in Greece so you don't represent Greece.
I am for Indepentet Greeks as well (that's what I vote), what's your point exactly?
And an atheist, too. Again, what's your point ?

Yaroslav
05-09-2012, 11:51 PM
I am for Indepentet Greeks as well (that's what I vote), what's your point exactly?
And an atheist, too. Again, what's your point ?

Then why you support neo-Nazis? Just support Independent Greeks and boycott Nazis.

I have no problem with you being atheist, I am not the One to judge, what I meant to say is that you don't represent Greeks since they are very spiritual people and Nazis are known for promoting neo-Paganism (Golden Dawn only recently "embraced" Christianity, but they probably did it for votes).

Queen B
05-09-2012, 11:57 PM
You have so little knowledge of what happens to Greece.

Then why you support neo-Nazis? Just support Independent Greeks and boycott Nazis.

Because they are not Neo-Nazis,duhhhh..


I have no problem with you being atheist, I am not the One to judge, what I meant to say is that you don't represent Greeks
I am Greek, by blood, culture, and heart. I do represent Greeks.


since they are very spiritual people and Nazis are known for promoting neo-Paganism (Golden Dawn only recently "embraced" Christianity, but they probably did it for votes).
That's why I constantly say they are not Neo-Nazis, you know. Because Golden Dawn's beliefs, don't match with Nazi ones.

Golden-Dawn's moto is ''Patris , Thriskia, Oikogenia'' which means ''Country, Religion, Family''.
No ''Aryan'' theories, no ''German'' superiority, nothing.
Golden Dawn's no#1 is Greek country, Greek nation.

Yaroslav
05-10-2012, 12:10 AM
You have so little knowledge of what happens to Greece.

Because they are not Neo-Nazis,duhhhh..

I am Greek, by blood, culture, and heart. I do represent Greeks.

That's why I constantly say they are not Neo-Nazis, you know. Because Golden Dawn's beliefs, don't match with Nazi ones.

Golden-Dawn's moto is ''Patris , Thriskia, Oikogenia'' which means ''Country, Religion, Family''.
No ''Aryan'' theories, no ''German'' superiority, nothing.
Golden Dawn's no#1 is Greek country, Greek nation.

They were neo-Pagan until recently. And I oppose religion myself, I am not part of any religious organization. Learn difference between faith and religion.

No "Aryan" theories? :D That's funny, you should learn more about them.

True they aren't "German Aryan" Nazis, they are "Greek Aryan" Nazis.

If they get in power they wouldn't hesitate to put Albanians, Macedonians, Roma, and others in concentration camps.

safinator
05-10-2012, 12:19 AM
They were neo-Pagan until recently. And I oppose religion myself, I am not part of any religious organization. Learn difference between faith and religion.

No "Aryan" theories? :D That's funny, you should learn more about them.

True they aren't "German Aryan" Nazis, they are "Greek Aryan" Nazis.

If they get in power they wouldn't hesitate to put Albanians, Macedonians, Roma, and others in concentration camps.
Lol.
The leader of Golden Dawn said Albanians are Greeks.
What a retard.

Queen B
05-10-2012, 12:30 AM
No "Aryan" theories? :D That's funny, you should learn more about them.
True they aren't "German Aryan" Nazis, they are "Greek Aryan" Nazis.

That's why they aren't Nazis. Nazis are a specific group,with a specific ideology and theory. Not every Ultra-Nationalist is a Nazi, even though Nazis were also Ultra-Nationalists.

Yaroslav
05-10-2012, 12:31 AM
Lol.
The leader of Golden Dawn said Albanians are Greeks.
What a retard.

I'm talking about Albanians from Albania not Arvanites. And the fact that he calls Arvanites as Greeks just shows that he has no respect for minorities and wants Hellenization (Greece was founded on Hellenization of Slavs, Vlachs, Albanians, and Turks, just continuing the tradition)...

Yaroslav
05-10-2012, 12:33 AM
That's why they aren't Nazis. Nazis are a specific group,with a specific ideology and theory. Not every Ultra-Nationalist is a Nazi, even though Nazis were also Ultra-Nationalists.

Oh ok, Anti-Capitalist party of France is not Communist because it doesn't call itself as such. :)

Queen B
05-10-2012, 12:38 AM
Oh ok, Anti-Capitalist party of France is not Communist because it doesn't call itself as such. :)
Omg, is like talking to a wall.
:rolleyes2:
Does Golden Dawn supports the Aryan theory of blonde-blue-eyed people?No
Does Golden Dawn supports the idea of the super Germany or whatever?No
No, therefore, is not Nazi.
IS Golden Dawn is a nationalist party? Yes.
IS Golden Dawn a fascist party? Yes.
Yes, its a ultra-nationalist party.

Its like saying, I am a bimbo, Marylin monroe was a bimbo, so I am Marylin Monroe.

Goodnight

Sokol
05-10-2012, 12:52 AM
I'm talking about Albanians from Albania not Arvanites. And the fact that he calls Arvanites as Greeks just shows that he has no respect for minorities and wants Hellenization (Greece was founded on Hellenization of Slavs, Vlachs, Albanians, and Turks, just continuing the tradition)...

You've hit the nail on the head here :thumb001:

Loki
05-10-2012, 04:22 AM
Lol.
The leader of Golden Dawn said Albanians are Greeks.
What a retard.

Albanians and Greeks do have a lot in common as far as DNA in concerned - especially Y-DNA.

Loki
05-10-2012, 04:23 AM
Does Golden Dawn supports the Aryan theory of blonde-blue-eyed people?No
Does Golden Dawn supports the idea of the super Germany or whatever?No
No, therefore, is not Nazi.


Not all Nazis have this blonde/Germanic fetish.

PeacefulCaribbeanDutch
05-10-2012, 04:56 AM
for some reason I imagine that Mary posted that top liked comment on this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMRvTa5rVzk&feature=player_embedded

she loves that Borat lol

Sinbad
05-10-2012, 05:52 AM
More £££££s to loan out....

Loki
05-10-2012, 06:11 AM
How does Greece leave the euro? (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15575751)

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/60125000/jpg/_60125104_60124359.jpg

A "drachma" is an ancient Greek currency unit and translates as a "handful", which is a lot less than what Greece will need to pay off all its debts.

For two years, everyone has been asking what would happen if Greece left the euro and went back to the drachma.

Now that time may be upon us.

With Greece unable to devalue its currency, the country is hobbled with crippling debt payments it cannot afford.

Even though it has cut its debt in half, Greece has been subject to much social unrest as five years of recession and bailout-imposed spending cuts have bitten hard.

Last week, a majority of Greeks voted for parties that want to rip up the country's bailout agreement with the European Union and International Monetary Fund (IMF) - including neo-Nazis.

The biggest winner was the leftist anti-bailout coalition, Syriza, whose share of the vote more than tripled and who describe the austerity imposed by the bailout as "barbaric".

Syriza is among those holding talks about forming a government, one that rejects policies of austerity, and if it comes to pass, a Syriza-led government will definitely not adhere to the terms of the bailout.

So how would Greece leave the euro?

No big announcement

In reality, the new prime minister probably will not announce it on TV one day, between broadcasts of the lottery and the football.

The new government will want to renegotiate some parts of the bailout, but if that doesn't happen, then Greece could simply stop paying its debt.

That would be a euro default.

Actually, a second, as Greece technically defaulted on its debts when it renegotiated a 50% write-off of its debts with its creditors earlier this year.

And that would put the ball back in Brussels' court - do the other 16 nations want a defaulter in the euro?

Last year, the French leader Nicolas Sarkozy told the Greeks: "Abide by the eurozone rules or leave."

Since then, Mr Sarkozy has himself been shown the door.

No legal mechanism

Still, one major issue is that there simply is no mechanism to leave the euro.

It was never envisaged by the bright-eyed politicians who created the impetus for the currency, which debuted in 1999.

"The treaty doesn't foresee an exit from the eurozone without exiting the EU," the European Commission has said.

This is the Maastricht Treaty from 1992, which led to the creation of the euro.

The option of leaving the EU was only added in Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty in 2007.

So under its current obligations, for Greece to exit the euro or be thrown out, it would have to leave the EU.

Leaving is straightforward: it involves a member state notifying the European Council - that is, the heads of state of the EU - that it wants to go.

The Council then agrees the terms of the exit via a qualified majority.

Would leaving the EU be the end of the world for Greece? Probably not.

The key part of Article 50 involves "setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union".

Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway all do fine and they are not in the EU. They are part of the European Economic Area, meaning they get access to the single market.

Switzerland is not even a member of the EEA and it trades with the EU with few problems - the odd tax dispute aside.

But again, the chaos of going from inside the EU to a country outside of it, but still slap bang in the centre of Europe, could possibly be even worse than what it is going through right now.

Peter Dixon, an economist at Commerzbank, says: "What happens then is that the cure ends up being worse than the disease."

Sokol
05-10-2012, 06:22 AM
How does Greece leave the euro? (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15575751)

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/60125000/jpg/_60125104_60124359.jpg

A "drachma" is an ancient Greek currency unit and translates as a "handful", which is a lot less than what Greece will need to pay off all its debts.

For two years, everyone has been asking what would happen if Greece left the euro and went back to the drachma.

Now that time may be upon us.

With Greece unable to devalue its currency, the country is hobbled with crippling debt payments it cannot afford.

Even though it has cut its debt in half, Greece has been subject to much social unrest as five years of recession and bailout-imposed spending cuts have bitten hard.

Last week, a majority of Greeks voted for parties that want to rip up the country's bailout agreement with the European Union and International Monetary Fund (IMF) - including neo-Nazis.

The biggest winner was the leftist anti-bailout coalition, Syriza, whose share of the vote more than tripled and who describe the austerity imposed by the bailout as "barbaric".

Syriza is among those holding talks about forming a government, one that rejects policies of austerity, and if it comes to pass, a Syriza-led government will definitely not adhere to the terms of the bailout.

So how would Greece leave the euro?

No big announcement

In reality, the new prime minister probably will not announce it on TV one day, between broadcasts of the lottery and the football.

The new government will want to renegotiate some parts of the bailout, but if that doesn't happen, then Greece could simply stop paying its debt.

That would be a euro default.

Actually, a second, as Greece technically defaulted on its debts when it renegotiated a 50% write-off of its debts with its creditors earlier this year.

And that would put the ball back in Brussels' court - do the other 16 nations want a defaulter in the euro?

Last year, the French leader Nicolas Sarkozy told the Greeks: "Abide by the eurozone rules or leave."

Since then, Mr Sarkozy has himself been shown the door.

No legal mechanism

Still, one major issue is that there simply is no mechanism to leave the euro.

It was never envisaged by the bright-eyed politicians who created the impetus for the currency, which debuted in 1999.

"The treaty doesn't foresee an exit from the eurozone without exiting the EU," the European Commission has said.

This is the Maastricht Treaty from 1992, which led to the creation of the euro.

The option of leaving the EU was only added in Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty in 2007.

So under its current obligations, for Greece to exit the euro or be thrown out, it would have to leave the EU.

Leaving is straightforward: it involves a member state notifying the European Council - that is, the heads of state of the EU - that it wants to go.

The Council then agrees the terms of the exit via a qualified majority.

Would leaving the EU be the end of the world for Greece? Probably not.

The key part of Article 50 involves "setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union".

Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway all do fine and they are not in the EU. They are part of the European Economic Area, meaning they get access to the single market.

Switzerland is not even a member of the EEA and it trades with the EU with few problems - the odd tax dispute aside.

But again, the chaos of going from inside the EU to a country outside of it, but still slap bang in the centre of Europe, could possibly be even worse than what it is going through right now.

Peter Dixon, an economist at Commerzbank, says: "What happens then is that the cure ends up being worse than the disease."

It's looking more and more likely that Greece will leave the EU. For Macedonia this means that the Greek veto in the EU is gone. Therefore the EU can recognise Macedonia under it's constitutional name, and begin the accession process (which incidentally has already begun - unofficially).

The Lawspeaker
05-10-2012, 06:26 AM
It's looking more and more likely that Greece will leave the EU. For Macedonia this means that the Greek veto in the EU is gone. Therefore the EU can recognise Macedonia under it's constitutional name, and begin the accession process (which incidentally has already begun - unofficially).
I think that if we would have Macedonia coming in to do the same thing that the Greeks have done that countries like the Netherlands and Germany should definitely leave the EU. I think that the Macedonians should be veto-ed.

Sokol
05-10-2012, 06:30 AM
I think that if we would have Macedonia coming in to do the same thing that the Greeks have done that countries like the Netherlands and Germany should definitely leave the EU. I think that the Macedonians should be veto-ed.

Macedonia is a small country and whether it's in or out, makes little difference for Germany. It would however make the Balkans a more stable place.

The Lawspeaker
05-10-2012, 06:33 AM
Macedonia is a small country and whether it's in or out, makes little difference for Germany. It would however make the Balkans a more stable place.
Absolutely out of the question. You people barely have a functioning economy, spent zillions on your capital that will have to be paid in the future and that undoubtedly will have to be paid by us then. Never.

Sokol
05-10-2012, 06:34 AM
Absolutely out of the question. You people barely have a functioning economy, spent zillions on your capital that will have to be paid in the future and that undoubtedly will have to be paid by us then. Never.

Thankfully, the decision is not yours :)

The Lawspeaker
05-10-2012, 06:37 AM
Thankfully, the decision is not yours :)
I am quite sure that the feelings are shared by many Northerners and that the government would be terrified to repeat the Greek exercise. So..chances of Macedonia joining are nil.

Loki
05-10-2012, 07:02 AM
I am quite sure that the feelings are shared by many Northerners and that the government would be terrified to repeat the Greek exercise. So..chances of Macedonia joining are nil.

I actually think he is right:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accession_of_Macedonia_to_the_European_Union

The Lawspeaker
05-10-2012, 07:03 AM
I actually think he is right:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accession_of_Macedonia_to_the_European_Union
We should definitely leave the EU then before we are forced to look after yet another bunch of fraudsters from the garlic countries. :rolleyes:

Loki
05-10-2012, 07:07 AM
The latest:

14 March 2012 - European Parliament adopts a resolution urging the Council to give the country a date to start accession negotiations. The institution regrets the fact that accession prospects are blocked by a dispute with Greece. EP also raises concerns regarding corruption and the segregation of children from different ethnic groups

The only reason why Macedonia has not joined the EU along with Bulgaria and Romania, is because Greece was blocking it. Now, if Greece leaves the euro/EU, that obstacle is removed.

The Lawspeaker
05-10-2012, 07:08 AM
I definitely think that we and the Germans should leave the Eurozone and the European Union and join the EFTA or so. At least then we are not being bled dry to cater to fraudsters and crazy EU schemes all the time. And of course: then we can look after our security again.

Loki
05-10-2012, 07:09 AM
I definitely think that we and the Germans should leave the Eurozone and the European Union and join the EFTA or so. At least then we are not being bled dry to cater to fraudsters and crazy EU schemes all the time. And of course: then we can look after our security again.

Yes I agree.

Onur
05-10-2012, 11:18 AM
We should definitely leave the EU then before we are forced to look after yet another bunch of fraudsters from the garlic countries. :rolleyes:
Tuan, wtf is "garlic countries"? lol :lol:

Btw i love garlic despite the bad smell and eat it whenever i can. Does that mean we are garlic eating peoples and our breath stinks? not only Turks, all mediterranean countries loves garlic :)

Onur
05-10-2012, 11:24 AM
Apparently the journalist who refused to stand up for Golden Dawn`s gypsy leader has wrote an article in the ekathimerini newspaper against the party and after that, Golden Dawn released an official response to her with a famous quote from Nazis in Germany as in German "'Kommt Zeit, kommt Rat, kommt Attentat!'" In other words, watch your back (!!!)



The Aggressive Tactics of the Greek Right Wing
Greek far-right parties could end up with as much as 20 percent of the vote in Sunday's elections. The neo-Nazi Golden Dawn party has intensified the xenophobic atmosphere in the country. Those who confront them are threatened with violence, journalist Xenia Kounalaki recounts.

At night, the streets leading to Omonoia Square are empty. That wasn't always the case. The area was the premier multicultural neighborhood of Athens and one of the first quarters to be gentrified. Jazz bars and Indian restaurants lined the streets, separated by the occasional rooms-by-the-hour hotel. It was a quarter full of immigrants, drug addicts and African prostitutes, but also of journalists, ambitious young artists and teenagers from private schools.

Today, the immigrants stay home once night falls. They are afraid of groups belonging to the "angry citizens," a kind of militia that beats up foreigners and claims to help the elderly withdraw money from cash machines without being robbed. Such groups are the product of an initiative started by the neo-Nazi Chrysi Avgi -- Golden Dawn -- the party which has perpetrated pogroms in Agios Panteleimon, another Athens neighborhood with a large immigrant population.

There are now three outwardly xenophobic parties in Greece. According to recent surveys, together they could garner up to 20 percent of the vote in elections on Sunday: the anti-Semitic party LAOS stands to win 4 percent; the nationalist party Independent Greeks -- a splinter group of the conservative Nea Dimokratia party -- is forecast to win 11 percent; and the right extremists of Golden Dawn could end up with between 5 and 7 percent.

My name is Xenia, the hospitable. Greece itself should really be called Xenia: Tourism, emigration and immigration are important elements of our history. But hospitality is no longer a priority in our country, a fact which the ugly presence of Golden Dawn makes clear.

A Personal Attack
Shaved heads, military uniforms, Nazi chants, Hitler greetings: How should a Greek journalist deal with such people? Should one just ignore them and leave them unmentioned? Should one denounce them and demand that they be banned? One shouldn't forget that they are violent and have perpetrated several attacks against foreigners and leftists. I thought long and hard about how to write about Golden Dawn so that my article was in no way beneficial to the party.

On April 12, the daily Kathimerini ran my story under the headline "Banality of Evil." In the piece, I carefully explained why it was impossible to carry on a dialogue with such people and why I thought the neo-Nazi party should disappear from media coverage and be banned. Five days later, an anonymous reply to my article appeared on the Golden Dawn website. It was a 2,500-word-long personal attack in which the fascists recounted my entire career, mocked my alleged foreign roots (I was born in Hamburg) and even, for no apparent reason, mentioned my 13-year-old daughter. The unnamed authors indirectly threatened me as well: "To put it in the mother tongue of foreign Xenia: 'Kommt Zeit, kommt Rat, kommt Attentat!'" In other words, watch your back.

Most Greeks believe that Golden Dawn has connections to both the police and to the country's secret service. Nevertheless, I went to the authorities to ask what I should do. I was told that I should be careful. They told me that party thugs could harass me, beat me or terrorize me over the phone. It would be better, they said, if I stopped writing about them. If I wished to react to the threats, they suggested I file a complaint against Golden Dawn's service provider. That, however, would be difficult given that the domain is based somewhere in the United States.

Like Weimar Germany
A friend told me that I should avoid wearing headphones on the street so that I can hear what is going on around me. My daughter now has nightmares about being confronted by members of Golden Dawn. Three of her classmates belong to the party. The three boys have posted pictures of party events on their Facebook pages. For their profile image, they have chosen the ancient Greek Meandros symbol, which, in the red-on-black manifestation used by Golden Dawn, resembles a swastika. The group's slogans include "Foreigners Out!" and "The Garbage Should Leave the Country!"

The fact that immigration has become such an issue in the worst year of the ongoing economic crisis in the country can be blamed on the two parties in government. The Socialist PASOK and the conservative Nea Dimokratia (New Democracy, or ND) are running xenophobic campaigns. ND has said it intends to repeal a law which grants Greek citizenship to children born in Greece to immigrant parents. And cabinet member Michalis Chrysochoidis, of PASOK, has announced "clean up operations" whereby illegal immigrants are to be rounded up in encampments and then deported. When he recently took a stroll through the center of Athens to collect accolades for his commitment to the cause, some called out to him: "Golden Dawn has cleaned up Athens!"

Yet, Chrysochoidis is the best loved PASOK politician in his Athens district, in part because of his xenophobic sentiments. His party comrade, Health Minister Andreas Loverdos, is just as popular. Loverdos has warned Greek men not to sleep with foreign prostitutes for fear of contracting HIV and thus endangering the Greek family.

High unemployment of roughly 22 percent, a lack of hope, a tendency toward violence and the search for scapegoats: Analyses in the Greek press compare today's Greece with Germany at the end of the Weimar Republic. "We didn't know," said many Germans when confronted with the truth of the Holocaust after Nazi rule came to an end. After elections on May 6, no Greeks should be able to make the same claim.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/a-greek-journalist-recounts-being-threatened-by-right-wing-extremists-a-831218.html


After that Nazi style death threat issued for the female journalist, wordpress has suspended the account of Golden Dawn`s official blog site for involving hate crime;
http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_wsite1_1_10/05/2012_441461

The Lawspeaker
05-10-2012, 11:26 AM
Tuan, wtf is "garlic countries"? lol :lol:

Btw i love garlic despite the bad smell and eat it whenever i can. Does that mean we are garlic eating peoples and our breath stinks? not only Turks, all mediterranean countries loves garlic :)
It's a derogatory nickname used here ("knoflookland") for countries along the Med. Basically everything south of the Alps (including France). It has about the same meaning as banana republic.

safinator
05-10-2012, 11:26 AM
At the end of the day most Europeans are related to each other.
It's a matter of the cutoff point.

Loki
05-10-2012, 11:35 AM
I don't understand why the number one issue for Golden Dawn is: immigration.

In my view, the number one issue is money:

- Debt because of EU bailouts, which cannot be afforded anymore. This issue is the most important - the Greek euro/currency and even EU membership depends on it.

Why now focus on immigration instead? :confused:

Onur
05-10-2012, 11:42 AM
I don't understand why the number one issue for Golden Dawn is: immigration.

In my view, the number one issue is money:

- Debt because of EU bailouts, which cannot be afforded anymore. This issue is the most important - the Greek euro/currency and even EU membership depends on it.

Why now focus on immigration instead? :confused:
For the same reason of why some factions in northern Europe keeps talking about "muslim invasion of Europe / high birthrate of muslims" etc. instead of the main cause of these problems like low birthrate of Europeans and idiotic EU policies which invites, brings immigrants to Europe.

It`s called diversion of the public opinion to make them blind for the real causes but let them focus on other elements. This is an age old political tactic to make people focus on wrong sides instead of true problems.

I wouldn't be surprise if Greek politicians invents a new artificial problem with Turkey in the future if their economical problems goes worse. They do it to make Greek people to focus other things than the real problems.

Queen B
05-10-2012, 06:38 PM
I don't understand why the number one issue for Golden Dawn is: immigration.

In my view, the number one issue is money:

- Debt because of EU bailouts, which cannot be afforded anymore. This issue is the most important - the Greek euro/currency and even EU membership depends on it.

Why now focus on immigration instead? :confused:

Because its a .... ultra-nationalist party maybe??

Anyway, although might seem insignificant, immigration causes lot of trouble in Greek economy

-Illigos don't pay taxes, (but enjoy health benefits (in critical injuries))
- High crime rate / more inmates in prison / more operational expenses
- Ghetto-ed areas, become isolated, market in that places are almost dead


Tuan, wtf is "garlic countries"? lol :lol:

Btw i love garlic despite the bad smell and eat it whenever i can. Does that mean we are garlic eating peoples and our breath stinks? not only Turks, all mediterranean countries loves garlic :)

Plus S.Korea.

PeacefulCaribbeanDutch
05-10-2012, 06:43 PM
I think they believe foreigners are the ones taking control of the government or influencing it.

Also illegal immigrants are really a bad thing, they end up creating a large lower class that didn't need to exist. I am totally against illegal immigration and I definitely think that open borders are going to destroy the modern world.

take a look at a country like Ukraine whose population is half Russian, they certainly had an immigration problem that even affects the government.

In greece immigrants are 10% in 10 years 20% and so on.

Yaroslav
05-10-2012, 07:30 PM
Sokol why do you want to sell your country's sovereignty to New World Order?

Petros Houhoulis
05-10-2012, 09:36 PM
Except the ones who're paying it, the common people, have no fault nor control over what the governments did in the back of everyone.

No, the common people have a responsibility, they voted those crooks in power.

There is always a need for better education. Democracy cannot work amongst illiterates.

Petros Houhoulis
05-10-2012, 09:37 PM
Yes and Independent Greeks are more popular than Golden Dawn and got more votes. So Greeks agree with me. Atheists are minorities in Greece so you don't represent Greece.

Atheists might not represent Greece, but do vote the Independent Greeks too!

cossackpride
05-10-2012, 09:41 PM
Greece isn't bankrupt. It seems like each time I pop on a military forum, there's an article about Greece receiving new tanks or guns from the United States.


Greeks probably have enough gadgets to take out Yugoslavia.

The Lawspeaker
05-10-2012, 09:44 PM
Greeks probably have enough gadgets to take out Yugoslavia.
Newsflash: Yugoslavia took itself out some 2 decades ago.

Petros Houhoulis
05-10-2012, 09:44 PM
Then why you support neo-Nazis? Just support Independent Greeks and boycott Nazis.

I have no problem with you being atheist, I am not the One to judge, what I meant to say is that you don't represent Greeks since they are very spiritual people and Nazis are known for promoting neo-Paganism (Golden Dawn only recently "embraced" Christianity, but they probably did it for votes).

"Golden Dawn", the "Jahovas' Witnesses", the "Church of Scientology" et al have supported more or less everybody during their existence, more often according to where the wind was blowing.

The Atheists are by far more stable - and when we say Atheists, we do not mean the worshippers of Stalin or Ataturk...

http://www.youtube.com/user/philhellenes?feature=results_main

Judaism, Christianity, Islamism, Buddhism, Hinduism e.t.c. were born in Asia.

"Jahovas' Witnesses", the "Church of Scientology", the "Seventh Day Adventists" e.t.c. were born in America.

Very few religions were born in Europe, yet the most popular of them is refusal of all religions. Atheism was born in Ancient Greece.

As long as there is reason amongst the human species, we shall never cease to exist...

Petros Houhoulis
05-10-2012, 09:45 PM
They were neo-Pagan until recently. And I oppose religion myself, I am not part of any religious organization. Learn difference between faith and religion.

No "Aryan" theories? :D That's funny, you should learn more about them.

True they aren't "German Aryan" Nazis, they are "Greek Aryan" Nazis.

If they get in power they wouldn't hesitate to put Albanians, Macedonians, Roma, and others in concentration camps.

"If..."

Petros Houhoulis
05-10-2012, 09:46 PM
Lol.
The leader of Golden Dawn said Albanians are Greeks.
What a retard.

Do you actually waste your time listening to him?

You really have a lot of time to spend...

Petros Houhoulis
05-10-2012, 09:47 PM
That's why they aren't Nazis. Nazis are a specific group,with a specific ideology and theory. Not every Ultra-Nationalist is a Nazi, even though Nazis were also Ultra-Nationalists.

Can we just agree that they are idiots? I think that would settle everything...

Petros Houhoulis
05-10-2012, 09:49 PM
I'm talking about Albanians from Albania not Arvanites. And the fact that he calls Arvanites as Greeks just shows that he has no respect for minorities and wants Hellenization (Greece was founded on Hellenization of Slavs, Vlachs, Albanians, and Turks, just continuing the tradition)...

The Arvanites and the Vlachs and the most of the Slavs of Greece believe that they are Greeks themselves. What do you care?

Petros Houhoulis
05-10-2012, 09:51 PM
Albanians and Greeks do have a lot in common as far as DNA in concerned - especially Y-DNA.

DNA is the least important in this respect, but unfortunately Pim Fortuyn is dead:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pim_Fortuyn

If he was alive, you wouldn't even think of it...

Petros Houhoulis
05-10-2012, 09:56 PM
It's looking more and more likely that Greece will leave the EU. For Macedonia this means that the Greek veto in the EU is gone. Therefore the EU can recognise Macedonia under it's constitutional name, and begin the accession process (which incidentally has already begun - unofficially).

Keep dreaming.

In a few days they'll figure out a way for a European country to leave the Euro without to leave the E.U.

Furthermore, who told you that the E.U. is rushing to bring any more Balkaners in the E.U.? They have already enough of them.

Forget the E.U. and NATO Sokol, you'll never join...

Petros Houhoulis
05-10-2012, 09:57 PM
Macedonia is a small country and whether it's in or out, makes little difference for Germany. It would however make the Balkans a more stable place.

There is no war in the Balkans right now, thus it cannot get more stable than it is already.

Petros Houhoulis
05-10-2012, 09:58 PM
Thankfully, the decision is not yours :)

It is theirs dear. There shall not be an expansion of the E.U. at least until 2020...

Petros Houhoulis
05-10-2012, 10:03 PM
I actually think he is right:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accession_of_Macedonia_to_the_European_Union

That's irrelevant. The real reason is that they shall never find a way to solve their problems with the Albanians, the Albanians shall keep increasing demographically, the Cantonisation shall continue, and when the Albanians shall be close to becoming a majority there shall be a secession.

They have not found a way to living peacefully with each other yet - much like the Turks and the Kurds... They do not have an outright war, but they shall never have a peace within the same state either.

Petros Houhoulis
05-10-2012, 10:04 PM
The latest:

14 March 2012 - European Parliament adopts a resolution urging the Council to give the country a date to start accession negotiations. The institution regrets the fact that accession prospects are blocked by a dispute with Greece. EP also raises concerns regarding corruption and the segregation of children from different ethnic groups

The only reason why Macedonia has not joined the EU along with Bulgaria and Romania, is because Greece was blocking it. Now, if Greece leaves the euro/EU, that obstacle is removed.

If it leaves the E.U. yes, if it leaves the Euro no...

... And you don't know the opinion of Bulgaria yet...

Queen B
05-10-2012, 10:05 PM
Can we just agree that they are idiots? I think that would settle everything...
I wouldn't say so..
I mean, not more idiots than the rest of the political parties :lol:

Petros Houhoulis
05-10-2012, 10:05 PM
I definitely think that we and the Germans should leave the Eurozone and the European Union and join the EFTA or so. At least then we are not being bled dry to cater to fraudsters and crazy EU schemes all the time. And of course: then we can look after our security again.

There shall not be an EFTA after that! Neither a Schenghen area either!

Petros Houhoulis
05-10-2012, 10:25 PM
Tuan, wtf is "garlic countries"? lol :lol:

Btw i love garlic despite the bad smell and eat it whenever i can. Does that mean we are garlic eating peoples and our breath stinks? not only Turks, all mediterranean countries loves garlic :)

Onur, that is not Loki and Tuan Belanda spitting on us. It is just the rain that falls from the sky and drops in the telecommunication cables. Then it gets transferred through the cables, reaches your computer, jumps accross your screen and ends up in your face.

Nobody is ever spitting at you, it is always raining though!

Anyway, Garlic is a very healthy food (not that I am crazy about it) and it is the Dutch's problem if they don't like it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garlic#Medicinal_use_and_health_benefits


In in vitro studies, garlic has been found to have antibacterial, antiviral, and antifungal activity. However, these actions are less clear in vivo. Garlic is also claimed to help prevent heart disease (including atherosclerosis, high cholesterol, and high blood pressure) and cancer.[1][29] Garlic is used to prevent certain types of cancer, including stomach and colon cancers. In fact, countries where garlic is consumed in higher amounts, because of traditional cuisine, have been found to have a lower prevalence of cancer.[30] Animal studies, and some early research studies in humans, have suggested possible cardiovascular benefits of garlic. A Czech study found garlic supplementation reduced accumulation of cholesterol on the vascular walls of animals.[31] Another study had similar results, with garlic supplementation significantly reducing aortic plaque deposits of cholesterol-fed rabbits.[32] Another study showed supplementation with garlic extract inhibited vascular calcification in human patients with high blood cholesterol.[33] The known vasodilative effect of garlic is possibly caused by catabolism of garlic-derived polysulfides to hydrogen sulfide in red blood cells (RBCs), a reaction that is dependent on reduced thiols in or on the RBC membrane. Hydrogen sulfide is an endogenous cardioprotective vascular cell-signaling molecule.[34]

A randomized clinical trial funded by the National Institutes of Health (NIH) in the United States and published in the Archives of Internal Medicine in 2007 found the consumption of garlic in any form did not reduce blood cholesterol levels in patients with moderately high baseline cholesterol levels.[35][36] According to Heart.org, "despite decades of research suggesting that garlic can improve cholesterol profiles, a new NIH-funded trial found absolutely no effects of raw garlic or garlic supplements on LDL, HDL, or triglycerides... The findings underscore the hazards of meta-analyses made up of small, flawed studies and the value of rigorously studying popular herbal remedies". In an editorial regarding the initial report's findings, two physicians from Weill Cornell Medical College of Cornell University, pointed out that there may "be effects of garlic on atherosclerosis specifically that were not picked up in the study".[37]

Allium sativum has been found to reduce platelet aggregation[38][39][40][41] and hyperlipidemia.[41][42][43]

In 2007, the BBC reported Allium sativum may have other beneficial properties, such as preventing and fighting the common cold.[44] This assertion has the backing of long tradition in herbal medicine, which has used garlic for hoarseness and coughs.[45] The Cherokee also used it as an expectorant for coughs and croup.[46] However, in contrast to these earlier claims concerning the cold-preventing properties of garlic, a 2012 report in the Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews concludes that "there is insufficient clinical trial evidence regarding the effects of garlic in preventing or treating the common cold. A single trial suggested that garlic may prevent occurrences of the common cold but more studies are needed to validate this finding. Claims of effectiveness appear to rely largely on poor-quality evidence."[47]

Garlic is also alleged to help regulate blood sugar levels. Regular and prolonged use of therapeutic amounts of aged garlic extracts lower blood homocysteine levels and has been shown to prevent some complications of diabetes mellitus.[48][49] People taking insulin should not consume medicinal amounts of garlic without consulting a physician.

Garlic was used as an antiseptic to prevent gangrene during World War I and World War II.[50] More recently, it has been found from a clinical trial that a mouthwash containing 2.5% fresh garlic shows good antimicrobial activity, although the majority of the participants reported an unpleasant taste and halitosis.[51]

Garlic cloves are used as a remedy for infections (especially chest problems), digestive disorders, and fungal infections such as thrush.[52][53] Garlic can be used as a disinfectant because of its bacteriostatic and bacteriocidal properties.[4]

Garlic has been found to enhance thiamin absorption, and therefore reduces the likelihood for developing the thiamin deficiency beriberi.[54]

In 1924, it was found to be an effective way to prevent scurvy, because of its high vitamin C content.[54]

Garlic has been used reasonably successfully in AIDS patients to treat Cryptosporidium in an uncontrolled study in China.[55] It has also been used by at least one AIDS patient to treat toxoplasmosis, another protozoal disease.[56]

Garlic supplementation has been shown to boost testosterone levels in rats fed a high protein diet.[57]

A 2010 double-blind, parallel, randomised, placebo-controlled trial, involving 50 patients whose routine clinical records in general practice documented treated but uncontrolled hypertension, concluded, "Our trial suggests that aged garlic extract is superior to placebo in lowering systolic blood pressure similarly to current first line medications in patients with treated but uncontrolled hypertension."[58]

P.S.

Those German folks have started producing Garlic pills without the odor! Onur, we have been left woefully behind...

http://www.wellnessletter.com/html/ds/dsGarlicPills.php


Claims, Benefits: Lower blood cholesterol and blood pressure, prevent cancer, colds, diabetes, etc.

Bottom Line: There is no clear evidence that garlic pills are beneficial. No one knows what element in garlic is beneficial, if any. But eat all the garlic you like—it can't hurt, and might help.

Petros Houhoulis
05-10-2012, 10:31 PM
Apparently the journalist who refused to stand up for Golden Dawn`s gypsy leader has wrote an article in the ekathimerini newspaper against the party and after that, Golden Dawn released an official response to her with a famous quote from Nazis in Germany as in German "'Kommt Zeit, kommt Rat, kommt Attentat!'" In other words, watch your back (!!!)





After that Nazi style death threat issued for the female journalist, wordpress has suspended the account of Golden Dawn`s official blog site for involving hate crime;
http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_wsite1_1_10/05/2012_441461

There are still no references to casualties because of the activity of their party. On the other hand:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_wolves#Role_in_1980_military_coup


In its indictment of the MHP in May 1981, the Turkish military government charged 220 members of the MHP and its affiliates for 694 murders.[3] However, imprisoned Grey Wolves members were offered amnesty if they accepted to fight the Kurdish separatism and the PKK,[4] and ASALA ("Armenian Secret Army for the Liberation of Armenia").

I am sure that Tuan Belanda is enjoying them:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_wolves#The_Netherlands


Grey Wolves activists infiltrated with varying successes the local politics of several Dutch municipalities. [33]

http://afa.home.xs4all.nl/comite/artikel/artikel130.html

Tuan Belanda, what do you think?

Petros Houhoulis
05-10-2012, 10:33 PM
I don't understand why the number one issue for Golden Dawn is: immigration.

In my view, the number one issue is money:

- Debt because of EU bailouts, which cannot be afforded anymore. This issue is the most important - the Greek euro/currency and even EU membership depends on it.

Why now focus on immigration instead? :confused:

There is a reason for calling them a fascist clone dear.

BTW, they are also advocating the "odious debt theory"... They suggest that we should not pay back the debt... If that answers your question.

The Lawspeaker
05-10-2012, 10:35 PM
There are still no references to casualties because of the activity of their party. On the other hand:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_wolves#Role_in_1980_military_coup



I am sure that Tuan Belanda is enjoying them:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_wolves#The_Netherlands



http://afa.home.xs4all.nl/comite/artikel/artikel130.html

Tuan Belanda, what do you think?
They apparently fucked it. Which is good. Any foreign group (even Germans) trying to influence our politics by moving here and creating ethnic pressure/terrorist groups should be dealt with. The hard way. Put them on a plane across the North Sea and make them swim. Argie-style :thumbs up

Petros Houhoulis
05-10-2012, 10:36 PM
For the same reason of why some factions in northern Europe keeps talking about "muslim invasion of Europe / high birthrate of muslims" etc. instead of the main cause of these problems like low birthrate of Europeans and idiotic EU policies which invites, brings immigrants to Europe.

Maybe we should just start kicking you out. BTW, I repeat that Greece should also keep its' obligations in the Schengen area and not try to help the illegal immigrants move North and West, as you have proposed to us...


It`s called diversion of the public opinion to make them blind for the real causes but let them focus on other elements. This is an age old political tactic to make people focus on wrong sides instead of true problems.

I wouldn't be surprise if Greek politicians invents a new artificial problem with Turkey in the future if their economical problems goes worse. They do it to make Greek people to focus other things than the real problems.

We have already enough REAL problems with you. For the moment YOU ARE THE ONES WHO REFUSE TO ABIDE BY INTERNATIONAL LAWS AND THE DECISIONS OF THE U.N.'s SECURITY COUNCIL.

Petros Houhoulis
05-10-2012, 10:45 PM
I think they believe foreigners are the ones taking control of the government or influencing it.

I cannot blame them. George Papandreou did not speak fluent Greek neither did he serve in the Greek armed forces, but in the U.S. instead. His father also served in the U.S. armed forces instead of the Greek ones, but he was Greek enough...

http://finance.kalpoint.com/highlights/business-news/holding-on-papandreou-keeps-his-party-in-power.html


Kostas Kleftoyiannis, who owns a mini-market near central Athens, says everyone is scapegoating Papandreou. "Okay, he doesn't speak Greek like us," he says , "and he probably never eats a souvlaki, but let's not make this personal."...

Many did. Ultimately his lack of knowledge of his "own" country proved to be the worst disaster for Greece and the E.U.




Also illegal immigrants are really a bad thing, they end up creating a large lower class that didn't need to exist. I am totally against illegal immigration and I definitely think that open borders are going to destroy the modern world.

take a look at a country like Ukraine whose population is half Russian, they certainly had an immigration problem that even affects the government.

In reality the Ukrainians are the Russians, I don't know who the "Russians" really are:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus


In greece immigrants are 10% in 10 years 20% and so on.

We can also assimilate them. Wait and see...

Petros Houhoulis
05-10-2012, 10:48 PM
Greece isn't bankrupt. It seems like each time I pop on a military forum, there's an article about Greece receiving new tanks or guns from the United States.


Greeks probably have enough gadgets to take out Yugoslavia.

These were for free!

Anyway, Greece never had an intention of taking over Yugoslavia, and never had a war against either Yugoslavia or Serbia - Quite the contrary. We've got more serious problem. i.e. Turkey.

U.S.A. is trying to convince Greece not to blow up NATO. Greece SHOULD BLOW UP NATO.

Petros Houhoulis
05-10-2012, 10:53 PM
I wouldn't say so..
I mean, not more idiots than the rest of the political parties :lol:

Actually I am a supporter or Chrysanthos Lazaridis. It is just that I cannot trust his leader, Samaras...

Lazaridis is the man who said years ago that there shall be no end in the recession if there is no strategy for development. Samaras was listening to him: He is Samaras' chief economic adviser.

Lazaridis also talked of leasing or selling state property as a solution to the problem early on.

End of the line: As a finance minister he would be much more effective than either Papakonstantinou or Alogoskoufis.

Nevertheless, the most of the parties are still a mess. The Golden Dawn are the worst mess of them all...

Petros Houhoulis
05-10-2012, 11:00 PM
They apparently fucked it. Which is good. Any foreign group (even Germans) trying to influence our politics by moving here and creating ethnic pressure/terrorist groups should be dealt with. The hard way. Put them on a plane across the North Sea and make them swim. Argie-style :thumbs up

I can't much disagree with you, it is just that both of us should be trying to look less Golden Dawn clones. Better keep it the legal way: Send them back to where they came from.

Anyway, the Turks have even David Cameron on their payroll:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-10767768


In a speech at the Turkish parliament in Ankara, Mr Cameron said he wanted to "pave the road" for Turkey to join the EU, saying the country was "vital for our economy, vital for our security and vital for our diplomacy".

A European Union without Turkey at its heart was "not stronger but weaker... not more secure but less... not richer but poorer".

Turkey shall make the E.U. richer! Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha!
Why doesn't it make Turkey richer first? And then we shall see.

It would be funny if it wasn't just a plot to destroy the E.U., which means that maybe you should also advocate the entry of the Turkey in the E.U., in your place, right?

It's just a pity that you'll have to have borders after this...

Sokol
05-10-2012, 11:30 PM
These were for free!

Anyway, Greece never had an intention of taking over Yugoslavia, and never had a war against either Yugoslavia or Serbia - Quite the contrary. We've got more serious problem. i.e. Turkey.

U.S.A. is trying to convince Greece not to blow up NATO. Greece SHOULD BLOW UP NATO.

The old SFRJ would have destroyed Greece in a heart-beat. Get real!

Sokol
05-10-2012, 11:31 PM
Keep dreaming.

In a few days they'll figure out a way for a European country to leave the Euro without to leave the E.U.

Furthermore, who told you that the E.U. is rushing to bring any more Balkaners in the E.U.? They have already enough of them.

Forget the E.U. and NATO Sokol, you'll never join...

We'll see....

Sinbad
05-11-2012, 01:39 AM
Kill em all arrhhh......

PeacefulCaribbeanDutch
05-11-2012, 02:00 AM
I cannot blame them. George Papandreou did not speak fluent Greek neither did he serve in the Greek armed forces, but in the U.S. instead. His father also served in the U.S. armed forces instead of the Greek ones, but he was Greek enough...

http://finance.kalpoint.com/highlights/business-news/holding-on-papandreou-keeps-his-party-in-power.html



Many did. Ultimately his lack of knowledge of his "own" country proved to be the worst disaster for Greece and the E.U.

In reality the Ukrainians are the Russians, I don't know who the "Russians" really are:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus

We can also assimilate them. Wait and see...

in order to assimilate them you have to marry them, at least a few of them, then you have to stop migration anyway because they will only be replaced with more illegal immigrants.

you see, once an illegal migrant worker who came to work at the agriculture industry has children, their children go to university and do not want to work in agriculture, so even more immigrants come in, it's an endless loop

Loki
05-11-2012, 04:36 AM
I think what we're dealing with here is a clear case of revanchism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revanchism):

Revanchism is linked with irredentism, the conception that a part of the cultural and ethnic nation remains "unredeemed" outside the borders of its appropriate nation-state. Revanchist politics often rely on the identification of a nation with a nation-state, often mobilizing deep-rooted sentiments of ethnic nationalism, claiming territories outside of the state where members of the ethnic group live, while using heavy-handed nationalism to mobilize support for these aims. Revanchist justifications are often presented as based on ancient or even autochthonous occupation of a territory since "time immemorial", an assertion that is usually inextricably involved in revanchism and irredentism, justifying them in the eyes of their proponents.

Thraex
05-12-2012, 11:35 AM
The leader of Greece's socialist party, Evangelos Venizelos, has abandoned efforts to form a new government, the BBC reports.

Venizelos, the third leader to try to forge a coalition following Sunday's inconclusive elections, said he would meet the president on Saturday in a last-ditch effort to avoid fresh polls.

There has been no breakthrough in Venizelos' talks with other parties.

Greece is deeply divided over budget cuts demanded in return for a bailout by the EU and the IMF.

The country's debt crisis has raised the possibility it could default and be forced out of the eurozone.

Following talks with other party leaders on Friday, Venizelos told reporters: "I am going to inform the president of the republic tomorrow and I hope that, during the meeting with Carolos Papoulias, each party will assume its responsibilities."

The president is expected to try to pressure parties into a government of national salvation - but the BBC's correspondent in Athens says he is unlikely to succeed.

The country would then be facing the prospect of fresh elections, and this would be a leap into the unknown, the correspondent adds.

Sunday's election saw a surge in support for parties opposed to the terms of the bailout, as well as a backlash against Pasok and the conservative New Democracy party - which had formed the outgoing coalition.

Pasok, which was seen as the architect of austerity, came third with just 41 seats in the 300-seat parliament.

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/20990/1/

The Lawspeaker
05-12-2012, 11:56 AM
"Sighs".

Petros Houhoulis
05-13-2012, 06:51 PM
The old SFRJ would have destroyed Greece in a heart-beat. Get real!

How old SFRJ?

In the 1950's and 1960's, when we were still recovering from the Greek civil war, or in the 1970's when we got balanced, or later in the 1980's and later, when we wouldn't even sweat?

Anyway, We never had any warlike intentions towards you. It is so obvious that even the U.S.Americans figured it out correctly!

Petros Houhoulis
05-13-2012, 06:57 PM
in order to assimilate them you have to marry them, at least a few of them, then you have to stop migration anyway because they will only be replaced with more illegal immigrants.

you see, once an illegal migrant worker who came to work at the agriculture industry has children, their children go to university and do not want to work in agriculture, so even more immigrants come in, it's an endless loop

It is true that the situation is by far more complex than it has been for centuries, but then we have survived such complex situation in the past with ease, and in some of them we managed to triumph as well.

The Albanians were never a problem. The Asians and Africans would be much more difficult. Ironically, the Blacks are easier to assimilate than the Pakistanis or other whites...

Some of the immigrants do cover standard needs of the Greek society, and Greece has a demographic problem. In my opinion Greece shall have the option in the future to pick whom she shall chose and whom shall leave her...

...And you already know what shall be the criterion for such a decision.

Petros Houhoulis
05-13-2012, 06:58 PM
I think what we're dealing with here is a clear case of revanchism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revanchism):

Revanchism is linked with irredentism, the conception that a part of the cultural and ethnic nation remains "unredeemed" outside the borders of its appropriate nation-state. Revanchist politics often rely on the identification of a nation with a nation-state, often mobilizing deep-rooted sentiments of ethnic nationalism, claiming territories outside of the state where members of the ethnic group live, while using heavy-handed nationalism to mobilize support for these aims. Revanchist justifications are often presented as based on ancient or even autochthonous occupation of a territory since "time immemorial", an assertion that is usually inextricably involved in revanchism and irredentism, justifying them in the eyes of their proponents.

You can simply rename the whole Balkans as the "Revanchism peninsula". It would make more sense.

Petros Houhoulis
05-13-2012, 06:59 PM
The leader of Greece's socialist party, Evangelos Venizelos, has abandoned efforts to form a new government, the BBC reports.

Venizelos, the third leader to try to forge a coalition following Sunday's inconclusive elections, said he would meet the president on Saturday in a last-ditch effort to avoid fresh polls.

There has been no breakthrough in Venizelos' talks with other parties.

Greece is deeply divided over budget cuts demanded in return for a bailout by the EU and the IMF.

The country's debt crisis has raised the possibility it could default and be forced out of the eurozone.

Following talks with other party leaders on Friday, Venizelos told reporters: "I am going to inform the president of the republic tomorrow and I hope that, during the meeting with Carolos Papoulias, each party will assume its responsibilities."

The president is expected to try to pressure parties into a government of national salvation - but the BBC's correspondent in Athens says he is unlikely to succeed.

The country would then be facing the prospect of fresh elections, and this would be a leap into the unknown, the correspondent adds.

Sunday's election saw a surge in support for parties opposed to the terms of the bailout, as well as a backlash against Pasok and the conservative New Democracy party - which had formed the outgoing coalition.

Pasok, which was seen as the architect of austerity, came third with just 41 seats in the 300-seat parliament.

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/20990/1/

It is far from over. There are two candidates for lending support to the government: The Independent Greeks and the Democratic left.

Tsipras shall be left out, no doubt...

Sinbad
05-14-2012, 01:17 PM
Just let them kill each other.......

Onur
05-15-2012, 05:00 PM
As requested from Brussels, Greek President asked party leaders to allow creation of new technocrat government appointed from Brussels but the parties except ND and PASOK refused this offer and it`s official now, Greece is going for another election next month as all the parties failed to form a government;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/9267247/Greece-heads-for-fresh-elections-after-coalition-talks-fail.html


Also, Greece`s technocrat PM Papademos said that central bank of Greece only have enough money `till the end of June, next month. IMF and Troika already said that they wont release the loan payment for May and June to Greece `till a new government forms in Greece and accepts the previous bailout conditions;
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-05-14/papademos-says-hard-for-greece-to-make-june-payments-ta-nea-says.html

Petros Houhoulis
05-17-2012, 12:41 PM
It's election time.

The battle is just beginning, but the early polls show Tsipras winning the first place.

On the other hand, Tsipras is evidently flipping his words. He already knows that the other Eurozone countries won't accept any serious changes, and he claims that he shall not nullify the pact with the Eurozone, because "it has already been nullified by the Greek people" yet officially it still stands of course. On the other hand, the majority of the members of Syriza are shouting now that Greece cannot impose any unilateral action...

Meanwhile Tsipras also claimed that the allies of Samaras and Venizelos are not supporting the Greek cause, while his own European allies do support his positions. He forgot to mention that his European allies are in the caliber of Daniel Marc Cohn-Bendit. In other words no European government shall support his views except Cyprus which has a "Communist" president by coincidence... But then Cyprus would probably support any Greek government.

Wait and see... Probably a toothless Syriza gaining power and following on the exact steps of the previous governments!!!

Nonetheless, the panic shall be of extraordinary proportions...

Sokol
05-17-2012, 11:02 PM
Oh no, not again. This is ridiculous! What will it be this time? Golden Dawn 50% of seats, Communists 50% of seats....next election..... :coffee:

The Lawspeaker
05-17-2012, 11:35 PM
When will the betting office open ?

Petros Houhoulis
05-18-2012, 11:49 PM
Oh no, not again. This is ridiculous! What will it be this time? Golden Dawn 50% of seats, Communists 50% of seats....next election..... :coffee:

Sokol, I've told you that the major poles shall be the New Democracy party and Syriza. The combined forces of the Golden Dawn and the Greek Communists shall barely reach 10% this time.

The protest time is over- We can't be protestants all the time after all!!! These elections shall be about rebuilding.

BTW, New Democracy has already overtaken Syriza. The "threat of exit from the Eurozone" is already working:

http://alphatv.gr/Newsroom/Alpha-News/Politics/%CE%91%CE%BD%CE%B1%CF%84%CF%81%CE%BF%CF%80%CE%B7-%CF%84%CE%BF%CF%85-%CF%80%CE%BF%CE%BB%CE%B9%CF%84%CE%B9%CE%BA%CE%BF%C F%85-%CF%83%CE%BA%CE%B7%CE%BD%CE%B9%CE%BA%CE%BF%CF%85-%CE%B4%CE%B5%CE%B9%CF%87%CE%BD%CE%B5%CE%B9-%CF%84%CE%BF-exit-po.aspx

http://alphatv.gr/getattachment/b624a6d1-29d7-40a9-a48b-948ff0228e96/poll290x170.aspx

According to these results, ND and PASOK could form a new government, and in case of emergency there is always the Independent Greeks and the Democratic left in the fray... Probably for poaching individual MP's rather than participating into a coalition.

The only certainty is that the New Democracy and Syriza shall go up, while the Greek Communists and Golden Dawn shall go down. These trends are irreversible in all polls...

Yaroslav
05-19-2012, 02:46 AM
I pray for Greece that neither Communists or Nazis take power. We know how much human suffering those New Age philosophies brought.

Petros Houhoulis
05-19-2012, 11:08 PM
I pray for Greece that neither Communists or Nazis take power. We know how much human suffering those New Age philosophies brought.

Their historical highs are ~10% for the Communists and ~7% for Golden Dawn. They just can't do it! They never were.