Was ancient Macedonian Greek?

[Ushtari]

Greek nationalists like to claim that the native language of the Macedonians was Greek. But it seems like they were originally non-Greeks who later got assimilated.


It is also commonly known that Greek language was used as Lingua Franca during this time and was used by royalties and in formal discourse while the people spoke Macedonian.

[Thraex]

A better question would be "are today's Greeks related to Greeks"? Seeing how most of them got assimilated in the Macedonian colonies and slaughtered or enslaved during the Roman conquest of Grecia. I highly doubt it. Today's Greeks are revival-style Greeks with no real link to the Greeks that constituted of Aristotle, Socrates and other intelligent philosophers. The Greeks are a dead race. The only thing that's alive is their language although Turkish-influenced (lessened during "purification process" when Greek Orthodoxs got their independence).

[Mordid]

Alexander was the son of King Philip II of Macedon, a kingdom in ancient Greece. He was a Mcdonaldian Geek.

[riverman]

lol
No, it was Macedonian.

[dandelion]

Greek nationalists like to claim that the native language of the Macedonians was Greek. But it seems like they were originally non-Greeks who later got assimilated.
Its not Greek nationalists who claim that.
Its a world known fact, its part of our heritage, and how we grow up.
Just like we grow up knowing Spartans,Thebans and Athenians were our ancestors, so were Macedonians.
Plus, is not nationalists who claim that. Historians, Linguistics, and facts/artifacts support this.


It is also commonly known that Greek language was used as Lingua Franca during this time and was used by royalties and in formal discourse while the people spoke Macedonian.
:lol:
All names were ONLY in Greek. All toponymes were ONLY in Greek. All artifacts were ONLY in Greek.

[Ushtari]

Its not Greek nationalists who claim that.
Its a world known fact, its part of our heritage, and how we grow up.
Just like we grow up knowing Spartans,Thebans and Athenians were our ancestors, so were Macedonians.
Plus, is not nationalists who claim that. Historians, Linguistics, and facts/artifacts support this.
Not really

http://i40.tinypic.com/2bqpo0.jpg
Source (http://books.google.se/books?id=aPEENAEp938C&printsec=frontcover&dq=the+ancient+languages+of+europe&hl=en&sa=X&ei=lTqLT8SNO8bk4QSd28n_CQ&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=the%20ancient%20languages%20of%20europe&f=false)

[brunette]

lol
No, it was Macedonian.

No it was Greek.

[dandelion]

Not really

Yes, REALLY.
Find an artifact with the ''Macedonian'' language that is non-Greek.

[Ushtari]

Yes, REALLY.
Find an artifact with the ''Macedonian'' language that is non-Greek.
Read my source again, Greek was lingua franca so its not strange it was used.

[dandelion]

Read my source again, Greek was lingua franca so its not strange it was used.
Greece was lingua france in wide area, not only this.
Yet, there were artifacts found with their own native language, and the names of the non-Greeks, were .. non-Greek, as well as the toponymes.
Prove me that the same happens with Macedonia.

What you basically trying to say is that Macedonians that :
- Were named ONLY with Greek names
- Were naming their places ONLY with Greek names
- All of their artifacts were ONLY in Greek language
- Spread GREEK culture
- Considered themselves Greek
- Participated in Olympic Games
- Followed Greek customs and Gods
- Shared same arts and symbols with the rest of Greeks

They weren't Greek ?
:lol:

[Ushtari]

We are speaking about their origin here and their native language, not the later hellinized ones.

[dandelion]

We are speaking about their origin here and their native language, not the later hellinized ones.
Find me a non-Greek name and a non-Greek toponyme then.

[riverman]

No it was Greek.

That's nice. :D
Anyways (edit) wrong thread.

[Ushtari]

You asked me earlier if English was lingua franca in Albania, and if we name our children George, josh etc.


No Dandelion, we dont, because we dont have English culture, while Greek culture was spread across the Mediterranean.

[dandelion]

You asked me earlier if English was lingua franca in Albania, and if we name our children George, josh etc.


No Dandelion, we dont, because we dont have English culture, while Greek culture was spread across the Mediterranean.

Why then, any other country back then, didn't name themselves with Greek names, and more especially ONLY with Greek names.

So, your theory is that : there was a Macedonian language. Different from Greek. Yet, they ONLY named themselves with Greek names, the ONLY name their places with Greek names, and they ONLY used Greek language, in the found artifacts.No other artifact was found proving the opossite.
Also,there were many of the other cultures that they used Greek as lingua franca, and they were greatly influenced by Greeks,but they had their own language, names, toponymies, etc, and there were artifacts proving that they used another language/ and they were different people than Greeks in general.
What I want to ask is, give me one fact to prove your point.

[Ushtari]

Well take a map and see for yourself, Macedonians lived side by side with the Greeks so obviously they were more affected. And i gave you an academic source clearly stating that it remains unclear whether the native language of the Macedonians was Greek or not.

[riverman]

(edit) nvm

[dandelion]

Well take a map and see for yourself, Macedonians lived side by side with the Greeks so obviously they were more affected. So did Illyrians, Thracians, Paionians, etc
They were also lived side by side, and were clearly influenced by Greeks.
But did they had ONLY Greek names, did they had ONLY Greek toponymes, do we have findings that prove they spoke another language?


And i gave you an academic source clearly stating that it remains unclear whether the native language of the Macedonians was Greek or not.
I ll say it again. Prove me wrong. A modern book that JUST doubts, without having a FACT to back it up, says nothing to me.

Its like me saying that you are not Ushtari, just because I say it.

[Ushtari]

So did Illyrians, Thracians, Paionians, etc
They were also lived side by side, and were clearly influenced by Greeks.
But did they had ONLY Greek names, did they had ONLY Greek toponymes, do we have findings that prove they spoke another language?

I ll say it again. Prove me wrong. A modern book that JUST doubts, without having a FACT to back it up, says nothing to me.
I have to correct that for you, its a modern academic book and the author describes for us readers the so-far conclusion that is made regarding the ancient Macedonian language, wich is that its still remains unclear whether Greek was the native language of the Macedonians.

[dandelion]

I have to correct that for you, its a modern academic book and the author describes for us readers the so-far conclusion that is made regarding the ancient Macedonian language, wich is that its still remains unclear whether Greek was the native language of the Macedonians.
So read this god damn book, and tell me in what facts this academic is placing his theory that doesn't deny, but just doubts, what Ancient Macedonians spoke.

[Γέλως]

The only people today objecting to the idea that ancient Macedonians were Greek, are some insignificant and pseudohistory-inclining Balkan shepherds: Fyromians, Albanians and whatnot. The universally accepted truth is that ancient Macedonians were Greek, and so was their language.

kBoO5qHmYuw

[riverman]

The only people today objecting to the idea that ancient Macedonians were Greek, are some insignificant and pseudohistory-inclining Balkan shepherds: Fyromians, Albanians and whatnot. The universally accepted truth is that ancient Macedonians were Greek, and so was their language.

kBoO5qHmYuw

Well, that's not the information I'm getting from my Greek history books, but this is the linguistics section, so in that sense, yes, seems like Macedonian is(was) a northern Greek dialect.

[Sokol]

something non-partisan;

http://indoeuro.bizland.com/tree/balk/macedonian.html

[Yaroslav]

Nah. It was Albanian, Ushatari. Isn't that wanted you wanted to hear? :rolleyes:
Everything in ancient Balkans was Albanians... :ranger:

[Arthur Scharrenhans]

It's actually a very interesting question for philologists, but it should have nothing to do with modern-day Balkan nationalism (which is a quite boring spectacle for those who are not involved).

My understanding is that the 'Macedonian' spoken in Classical times was indeed a Greek dialect (of the Doric/Northwestern family) but with substrate influence from some non-Hellenic (but probably Indo-European) language, resulting in a distinct 'look' from other Greek dialects (other marginal dialects with strong substrate influence, such as Pamphylian for example, could be very idiosyncratic, too).

[Romanion]

Greek nationalists like to claim that the native language of the Macedonians was Greek. But it seems like they were originally non-Greeks who later got assimilated.


It is also commonly known that Greek language was used as Lingua Franca during this time and was used by royalties and in formal discourse while the people spoke Macedonian.


A better question would be "are today's Greeks related to Greeks"? Seeing how most of them got assimilated in the Macedonian colonies and slaughtered or enslaved during the Roman conquest of Grecia. I highly doubt it. Today's Greeks are revival-style Greeks with no real link to the Greeks that constituted of Aristotle, Socrates and other intelligent philosophers. The Greeks are a dead race. The only thing that's alive is their language although Turkish-influenced (lessened during "purification process" when Greek Orthodoxs got their independence).


Oh look, wanna be Illyrian and a Slavo-Macedonian and their obsession with Greeks, you guys are getting boring.