True descendants of ancient Illyrians?

[Vanguard]

Who are true descendants of ancient Illyrians,South Slavs or Albanians?

[Siegfried]

I feel another Balkans war coming.

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/16115726/images/1314705575558.jpg

Illyria:
http://i38.tinypic.com/24l4xes.jpg

So, who are their descendants? The guys who live in those regions.

[safinator]

It's clearly the Albanians, south slavs can claim a little bit of Illyrian genetics though.

[Boiorix]

I feel another Balkans war coming.

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/16115726/images/1314705575558.jpg

Illyria:
http://i38.tinypic.com/24l4xes.jpg

So, who are their descendants? The guys who live in those regions.

It looks like that's the whole point of Vanguard's threads.

[Boiorix]

And yea', whole this story of Albo-Illyrian connections is just ridiculous, I think they don't truly belive in that neither.

[Grizzly]

INB4 Caucasus Albania theory!!!

[Drawing-slim]

There's no doubt albanians are the true illyrians. If Anyone else disagree, well, to bad you're an idiot.

[Xenomorph]

Everyone who lives in that area probably has some Illyrian blood; besides, the original genetic pool has probably been diluted considerably over the centuries.

[Grizzly]

I think Balkanians with Dinarid influences have high Illyrian/Ancient Balkan DNA.

[Sikeliot]

Both to some extent.

[Duke]

It's clearly the Albanians, south slavs can claim a little bit of Illyrian genetics though.

Yes its true, we share tiny lil bit of "Illyrian" or i shoud rephrase it as Šiptar genetics, however every 3rd Šiptar is a south slav by male ancestor :cool:

It seems south Slavs liked "illyrian" women in Albania, and the women liked them also, while majority of "Illyrians" from most of Illyricum were like worst fuckers the world has ever seen. :)

[Rron]

And yea', whole this story of Albo-Illyrian connections is just ridiculous, I think they don't truly belive in that neither.And who are Illyrians except Albanians , you !!!? there is no accepted scientific evidence that ancient inhabitants of the Balkans were Serbs or Slavs.

Otherwise here is your history :

The ethnonym Serbs is thought to be first mentioned by Tacitus in 50 AD, Pliny the Elder in 77 AD (Naturalis Historia) and Ptolemy in his Geography 2nd century AD, who mention the Sarmatian tribe of Serboi of the North Caucasus and Lower Volga.

Pliny the Younger in his work Plinii Caecilii Secundi Historia naturalis from the first century AD (69-75) mentioned people named Serbi, who lived near the Cimmerians, presumably on the Black Sea and the Sea of Azov.

In the 2nd century (around 175 AD), the Egyptian scientist Claudius Ptolemy mentioned in his Geography people named Serboi or Sirboi, who presumably lived behind the Caucasus, near the hinterland of the Black Sea.

In the 10th century, Byzantine emperor Constantine VII Porphyrogennetos (912-959) mentioned in his book De Ceremoniis two tribes named Krevatades (Krevatas) and Sarban (Sarbani), which some researches identified as Croats and Serbs. These tribes were located in the Caucasus near the river Terek, between Alania and Tsanaria. The Sarban tribe in the Caucasus in the 10th century was also recorded by an Arab geographer.

^ Ćirković, Sima M., and Vuk Tošić. The Serbs, p. 13. Vuk Tošić (ed. and trans.). Hoboken, N.J.: Wiley-Blackwell, 2004, p. xii. ISBN 978-0-631-20471-8
^ Aleksandar M. Petrović, Arheografija naroda jugoistočne Evrope, Beograd, 2006, page 19.
^Aleksandar M. Petrović, Arheografija naroda jugoistočne Evrope, Beograd, 2006, page 19.
^ De administrando imperio, Constantine VII Porphyrogenitus (Emperor of the East), Gyula Moravcsik, Pázmány Péter Tudományegyetemi Görög Filológiai Intézet, 1949, page 115.
^ Parameśa Caudhurī, India in Kurdistan, Qwality Book Company, 2005, page 79.
^ The Slavs: their early history and civilization, Francis Dvornik, American Academy of Arts and Sciences, 1959, page 28.
^ Constantini Porphyrogenneti... libri duo De ceremoniis aulæ Byzantinæ. Prodeunt nunc primum Græce, cum Latina interpretatione et commentariis. Curarunt Io. Henricus Leichius et Io. Iacobus Reiskius..., VII Constantin, Gleditschius, 1754, page 397.
^ The early medieval Balkans: a critical survey from the sixth to the late twelfth century, John Van Antwerp Fine, University of Michigan Press, 1991, page 56.

..............................................





Theory about Iranian origin of the Serb ethnonym assumes that ancient Serbi / Serboi from north Caucasus (Asiatic Sarmatia) were an Sarmatian (Alanian) tribe. The theory subsequently assumes that Alanian Serbi were subdued by the Huns in the 4th century and that they, as part of the Hunnic army, migrated to the western edge of the Hunnic Empire (in the area of Central Europe near the river Elbe, later designated as White Serbia in what is now Saxony (eastern Germany) and western Poland). After Hunnic leader Attila died (in 453), Alanian Serbi presumably became independent and ruled in the east of the river Saale (in modern day Germany) over local Slavic population. Over time, they, it is argued, intermarried with the local Slavic population of the region, adopted Slavic language, and transferred their name to the Slavs. According to Tadeuš Sulimirski, similar event could occur in the Balkans or Serbs who settled in the Balkans were Slavs who came from the north and who were ruled by already slavicized Alans.

Deformed human sculls that are connected to the Alans are also discovered in the area that was later designated as "White Serbia".

It is possible that the Alanian Serbi in Sarmatia, similarly like other Sarmatian/Iranian peoples on the northern Caucasus, originally spoke an Indo-European Iranian language similar to present-day Ossetian. The Ossetian language is a member of Eastern Iranian branch of Iranian languages, along with Pashtun, Yaghnobi and languages of the Pamir. One of the Pashtun tribal groups in Afghanistan and Pakistan is known as Sarbans (Sarbani) and Pashtuns are believed to be of Scythian descent while their language is classified as East Scythian (Sarmatian language is also grouped within Scythian branch).

According to some interpretations, Serb ethnonym might be of Caucasian or more notably of Lezgian origin. In the Lezgian language, "ser" would mean "man", while "serbi" would mean "men" or "people".


^ Miodrag Milanović, Srpski stari vek, Beograd, 2008, page 81.
^ Relja Novaković, Još o poreklu Srba, Beograd, 1992, page 46.
^ Miodrag Milanović, Srpski stari vek, Beograd, 2008, page 81.
^ Relja Novaković, Još o poreklu Srba, Beograd, 1992, page 46.
^ Miodrag Milanović, Srpski stari vek, Beograd, 2008, page 81.
^ Relja Novaković, Još o poreklu Srba, Beograd, 1992, page 48.
^ Relja Novaković, Još o poreklu Srba, Beograd, 1992, page 46.
^ Relja Novaković, Još o poreklu Srba, Beograd, 1992, page 48.
^ Relja Novaković, Srbi, Zemun, 1993, page 61.
^ A brief history of Afghanistan, Shaista Wahab, Barry Youngerman, Infobase Publishing, 2007, page 14.
^ The history and geography of human genes, Luigi Luca Cavalli-Sforza, Paolo Menozzi, Alberto Piazza, Princeton University Press, 1994, page 242.
^ Sava S. Vujić - Bogdan M. Basarić, Severni Srbi (ne)zaboravljeni narod, Beograd, 1998, page 33.

[safinator]

Yes its true, we share tiny lil bit of "Illyrian" or i shoud rephrase it as Šiptar genetics, however every 3rd Šiptar is a south slav by male ancestor :cool:

It seems south Slavs liked "illyrian" women in Albania, and the women liked them also, while majority of "Illyrians" from most of Illyricum were like worst fuckers the world has ever seen. :)
Arithmetics isn't your best right???
Every 1/3 means 33% of I2a2 and R1a combined when in fact in Albania itself this two combined reach only 20%.
In Albanians from Kosovo even less than 15% so make up your facts straight.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Seeing how there are no remains of Illyrian culture and language I would say none.

[safinator]

Seeing how there are no remains of Illyrian culture and language I would say none.
They were abducted by Aliens.

[poiuytrewq0987]

They were abducted by Aliens.

Albanian culture and language are not a continuation of Illyrian languages and cultures.

[safinator]

Albanian culture and language are not a continuation of Illyrian languages and cultures.
Indeed it descends from Proto-Martians.

[Illirico]

Albanians are the only people to have the continue of appearance, language, national costume, belligerent tendencies, tribal orders and vendettas of illyrians.
In the world, especially in the West, there is the use to say as a synonym for the Albanians, Illyrians. Then the test even more evident is the language, Albanians speak a language of Illyric branch, is this enough?

The Illyric Branch

Another single language branch. Only Albanian (called Shqip by its speakers) belongs to this branch. It has been written in the Latin script since 1909; this replaced a number of writing systems including Greek and Arabic scripts. Albanian has many avoidance words. Instead of saying wolf, the phrase may God close its mouth is used. The definate article is shown by a suffix: BUK (bread) BUKA (the bread). Many noun plurals are irregular.

There are two dialects that have been diverging for 1000 years. They are mostly mutually intelligible. Geg is spoken in the north of Albania and Kosovo (Kosova). Tosk is spoken in southern Albania and north west Greece.

The ancient Illyric and Mesapian languages, spoken in parts of Italy, are considered by some to be an extinct member of this branch.
http://www.krysstal.com/langfams_indoeuro.html


-The national name Albania is derived from Albanoi, an Illyrian tribe mentioned by Ptolemy about 150 A.D.

-From what we know from the old Balkan populations territories (Greeks, Illyrians, Thracians, Dacians), Albanian language is spoken in the same region where Illyrian was spoken in ancient times.

-There is no evidence of any major migration into Albanian territory since the records of Illyrian occupation.

-Many of what remain as attested words to Illyrian have an Albanian explanation and also a number of Illyrian lexical items (toponyms, hydronyms, oronyms, anthroponyms, etc.) have been linked to Albanian

-The ancient Illyrian place-names of the region have achieved their current form following Albanian phonetic rules e.g. Durrachion > Durrës (with the Albanian initial accent) Aulona > Vlonë~Vlorë (with rhotacism) Scodra > Shkodra etc.


About the South-Slavs

Historically There is the evidence of migrations of South-Slavs in the South-Europe.

Most of South-Slavs try to lie to themselves to be propagating the descendants of peoples who have no connection with their tongue. South Slavs are immigrants, are originally Sarmatian tribes, Turkish and Iranian who then had the 'real linguistic influence of the neighboring Slavs.



Bosnia
Regarding the roots of Bosnians, Dodan notes that Bosnia is historically a Croatian land, that Bosnia belonged to Croatia in the early mediaeval times, that the majority of Bosnian population used to be and are still Croats, and that mediaeval Bosnian kings were ethnic Croats. Even their surnames end in "-an". Dodan quotes Draganovic's and Mandic's research according to which 95 % of Muslims and 30% of Serbs are actually Croats. He also elucidates the Iranian roots of the Croatian people (Dodan 1994).



Serbs
Now, we turn to the connection with the Serbs. Several historians maintain that the Serbian ruling caste shared the same origin as the Croats. Prof. Malcolm recently wrote a book "Bosnia" (Malcolm 1996), in which he clearly elucidates the Iranic origin of both Serbs and Croats. For instance, Prof. Salzman notes while reviewing Malcolm's first chapter:
"The Croats and Serbs (who were either Slavic tribes with Iranian ruling castes or Iranian tribes with Slavic subjects) arrived in the Balkans in the 620s, a land already occupied by the Slavs." (Salzman 1999)


Croats
Croats as Hrvati, Haravaitii, Arachosians or Sarasvatians, descendants of the ancient inhabitants of the Harauti province & the Haravaiti or Sarasvati River. Their mention on legendary inscriptions of Darius the Great. Croatian flag based on the chessboard, Croatian religion derived from primordial Iranic Sun-worship. Common origin of Croats and Serbs. Their relations with the Sarmatians, Saura Matii or Surya Madas, the Solar Medes. False claims of The Indian Express refuted. Scythian or Saka origin of Jats. Consequent commmon origin of Jats, Croats and Serbs. Genetic proof for the same is presented.


Bulgarians, we can include also Fyromians
It may also be stated that several scholars have noticed Iranic elements amongst the Proto-Bulgarians. (Beshevliev 1967, Schmitt 1985)

http://www.iranchamber.com/history/articles/common_origin_croats_serbs_jats.php

[Vukodav]

We are not Illyrian, we are slavicized Vikings actually with bit of Hunic blood (just to reinforce our genocidal genetics)

[Ianus]

Phoenotypically: South Slav

Phoenotiically+linguistically: Albanian

[Sikeliot]

Genetically also people in Apulia in Italy have some Illyrian ancestry. It explains why parts of Apulia are so heavily Dinaric.

[Gorštak]

Most of Illyrians were Romanised and mixed with other Romanised people long ago.

[Ianus]

Genetically also people in Apulia in Italy have some Illyrian ancestry. It explains why parts of Apulia are so heavily Dinaric.

I think the most dinaric zone is North East. Apulian are more or less like other South Italian.

[Don Arb]

Culturally albanians, we saved the languange and most of pagan illyrian traditions genetically many of balkanites are assimilated slavs now.

[Gorštak]

Culturally albanians, we saved the languange and most of pagan illyrian traditions genetically many of balkanites are assimilated slavs now.

How can we know that Albanians language is Illyrian?
Illyrians never wrote anything on their language, so we don't have an idea how it sounded.
Better example is some Albanians dances, similar to Illyrians dances that we can see on some monuments.

[RandoBloom]

Culturally albanians, we saved the languange and most of pagan illyrian traditions genetically many of balkanites are assimilated slavs now.

Not true. Bosniaks kept a lot of customs and beliefs from Illyrian times, just replaced the names. Especially the continued reverence of springs and water

[Chieftain]

Well, however you put it, the Slavic invasion of Balkans took place in the 6-7th century, and it's luckily documented and proofs exist to back this claim/history fact, or like in many other cases serbian propoganda would have made them look like Ancient Illyrians.

[RandoBloom]

And option shouldnt be south slavs.
It should be Bosniaks.
Servs and Croats aint Illyrian

[Gorštak]

And option shouldnt be south slavs.
It should be Bosniaks.
Servs and Croats aint Illyrian

Please stop it lol.
Those theories are silly, neither we are pure Illyrians, neither they are pure Slavs.

[aherne]

Both to some extent.
Yugoslavs more than Albanians.

[el22]

I don't think any population that called itself "Illyrians" ever existed. This is a name given from outsiders to a mix of people.

[Geni]

Are south slavs not dorians ? :rolleyes:(guapo thread) you cannot bee .dorians+illyrians+slavs..select one..

[Kalimtari]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanopolis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanoi

Ancient & early medieval references to people of unknown ethnicity
Main article: Albania (name)

In the 2nd century BC, the History of the World written by Polybius, mentions a location named Arbon[15] or Arbo[16] (Greek: Άρβωνα)[17] that was perhaps an island[18] in Liburnia or another location within Illyria. Stephanus of Byzantium centuries later, cites Polybius, saying it was a city in Illyria and gives an ethnic name (see below) for its inhabitants. Most likely it is a Croatian island of Rab.

In the 2nd century AD, Ptolemy, the geographer and astronomer from Alexandria, drafted a map that shows the city of Albanopolis (located Northeast of Durrës). Ptolemy also mentions the Illyrian tribe named Albanoi,[19] who lived around this city.

In the 6th century AD, Stephanus of Byzantium in his important geographical dictionary entitled Ethnica (Εθνικά)[20] mentions a city in Illyria called Arbon (Greek: Αρβών), with its inhabitants called Arbonios (Greek: Αρβώνιος) and Arbonites (Greek: Αρβωνίτης). He cites Polybius[20] (he does so many[21][22] times in ethnica) and does not claim that such city or people existed during his time.[citation needed][original research?]

11th-13th century references to Albanians

The Arbanasi people are recorded as being 'half-believers' (non-Orthodox Christians) and speaking their own language in the Fragment of Origins of Nations between 1000-1018 by an anonymous author in a Bulgarian text of the 11th century.[23]
In History written in 1079-1080, Byzantine historian Michael Attaliates referred to the Albanoi as having taken part in a revolt against Constantinople in 1043 and to the Arbanitai as subjects of the duke of Dyrrachium. It is disputed, however, whether the "Albanoi" of the events of 1043 refers to Albanians in an ethnic sense or whether "Albanoi" is a reference to Normans from Sicily under an archaic name (there was also tribe of Italy by the name of "Albanoi").[24] However a later reference to Albanians from the same Attaliates, regarding the participation of Albanians in a rebellion in 1078, is undisputed.[25]
Arbanitai of Arbanon are recorded in an account by Anna Comnena of the troubles in that region during the reign of her father Alexius I Comnenus (1081–1118) by the Normans.[26]
The earliest Serbian source mentioning "Albania" (Ar'banas') is a charter by Stefan Nemanja, dated 1198, which lists the region of Pilot (Pulatum) among the parts Nemanja conquered from Albania (ѡд Арьбанась Пилоть, "de Albania Pulatum").[27]
In the 12th to 13th centuries, Byzantine writers use the words Arbanon (Greek: Άρβανον) for a principality in the region of Kruja.
1285 in Dubrovnik (Ragusa) a document states: "Audivi unam vocem clamantem in monte in lingua albanesca" (I heard a voice crying in the mountains in the Albanian language).[28]

Albanian endonym "Shqiptar"
Albanian migrations in 1300-1350 AD
Main article: Shqiptar

There are various theories of the origin of the word shqiptar:

A theory by Ludwig Thallóczy, Milan Šufflay and Konstantin Jireček, which is today considered obsolete, derived the name from a Drivastine family name recorded in varying forms during the 14th century: Schepuder (1368), Scapuder (1370), Schipudar, Schibudar (1372), Schipudar (1383, 1392), Schapudar (1402), etc.

Gustav Meyer derived Shqiptar from the Albanian verbs shqipoj (to speak clearly) and shqiptoj (to speak out, pronounce), which are in turn derived from the Latin verb excipere, denoting brethren who speak the Albanian language, similar to the ethno-linguistic dichotomies Sloven-Nemac and Deutsch-Wälsch.[29] This theory is also sustained by Robert Elsie.[30]

Petar Skok suggested that the name originated from Scupi (Albanian: Shkupi), the capital of the Roman province of Dardania.[31]

The most accredited theory, at least among Albanians, is that of Maximilian Lambertz who derived the word from the Albanian noun shqype or shqiponjë (eagle), which, according to Albanian folk etymology, denoted a bird totem dating from the times of Skanderbeg, as displayed on the Albanian flag.[31]

First attestation of the Albanian language

The first document in the Albanian language (as spoken in the region around Mat) was recorded in 1462 by Paulus Angelus (whose name was later Albanized to Pal Engjëll), the archbishop of the Catholic Archdiocese of Durazzo (modern Durrës).[32]

[Kalimtari]

Genetic Ancestry

In a University of California, Davis study in July 2012 regarding the geography of recent genetic ancestry across Europe the genomic data of 2,257 Europeans (including 9 samples from Albania and 15 from Kosovo),were analysed.[92] The results of the study suggest that a "reasonable proportion of the ancestors of modern-day Albanian speakers are drawn from a relatively small, cohesive population that has persisted for at least the last 1,500 years", as the samples of the Albanian speakers exhibited the highest levels of IBD sharing. The levels of common ancestry with neighbouring groups suggest the existence of a small group rather than an isolated one. Also the "Greek samples (and to a lesser degree, the Macedonian ones) share much higher numbers of common ancestors with Albanian speakers than with other neighbors, possibly due to smaller effects of the Slavic expansion in these populations" and that the "Italians share more common ancestors with Albanian speakers than with other populations". However, the common ancestry between Albanian- and Italian speakers may reflect more recent migrations as common ancestors of the groups are found in the last 1600 years. As for the origin of the Albanian population the results of the study are consistent with the view that the Albanians "descend in large part from the Illyrians (Wilkes, 1996) who populated the eastern side of the Adriatic sea and part of modern-day Salento (Italy) during Roman times".[92]
Obsolete theories

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Albanians

[Kalimtari]

List of Romanian words of possible Dacian origin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Romanian_words_of_possible_Dacian_origin

Thraco-Illyrian

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thraco-Illyrian

[RandoBloom]

I don't think any population that called itself "Illyrians" ever existed. This is a name given from outsiders to a mix of people.

You mean like Greeks too?
Since there was never a nation called Greece. Not even a nationality :D

[Pleurat]

Yugoslavs more than Albanians.

Can you give us a reason my aryan friend?

[el22]

You mean like Greeks too?
Since there was never a nation called Greece. Not even a nationality :D

The fact that south Slavs have genetic diversity means that either a diversity of people came (who, while different, apparently spoke the same language), or the diversity was already there. I have some difficulty believing that genetically diverse people, but that were speaking the same Slavic language, moved synchronously form one place in another. Furthermore the word Illyrian (we say 'ilir') is meaningful in Albanian, but it's not a name someone would choose for itself.

[justme]

Albanians of course!

[aherne]

Can you give us a reason my aryan friend?

Because Albanian language is akin Romanian substrate (phonologically as well as in vocabulary) and a similar substrate operates in Bulgarian language as well (more evident in phonology than vocabulary, because prior to Slavicization people were already Romance/Greek speaking). Physically, Albanians resemble Dacians by many orders of magnitude more than Romanians. That guy in your avatar, for example, looks Dacian. Even Dacians' leader Burebista has 100% "Albanian" surname (burre-bishti (http://sq.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burebista), meaning snake-man). Evidence is quite clear as far as language is concerned. Albanian language either came from Dacian or from a related dialect.

[el22]

Because Albanian language is akin Romanian substrate (phonologically as well as in vocabulary) and a similar substrate operates in Bulgarian language as well (more evident in phonology than vocabulary, because prior to Slavicization people were already Romance/Greek speaking). Physically, Albanians resemble Dacians by many orders of magnitude more than Romanians. That guy in your avatar, for example, looks Dacian. Even Dacians' leader Burebista has 100% "Albanian" surname (burre-bishti (http://sq.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burebista), meaning snake-man). Evidence is quite clear as far as language is concerned. Albanian language either came from Dacian or from a related dialect.

Something like 10% of English and even more of Italian words derive from Albanian. For example from Albanian 'dua' / 'me dash' (want / love) derive these other Albanian words:
Albanian <-> English <-> Ialian
dashuri <-> love <-> amore
dashje <-> intentionally <-> deliberatamente
deshire <-> desire <-> desiderio
(http://translate.google.com/?sl=sq&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&text=brek%0D%0Aprek%0D%0Agrek%0D%0Agrep%0D%0A%0D%0 Agreqi%0D%0Adreqi%0D%0A#sq/en/dashuri.%0Adashje.%0Adeshire.)

As you can see, the Albanian words are connected and they derive from another Albanian root. While English and Italian words aren't. Because Italian doesn't use 'sh' it maps it to the closes letter 's' and alb: 'deshire' becomes eng: 'desire'.

From Albanian 'mire' (good) (http://translate.google.com/?sl=sq&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&text=brek%0D%0Aprek%0D%0Agrek%0D%0Agrep%0D%0A%0D%0 Agreqi%0D%0Adreqi%0D%0A#sq/en/mire) derive these English words: admire, miracle. They have 'mire' as their root, and their meaning is a derivation of 'good'. From Albanian verb gjej / gjen (http://translate.google.com/?sl=sq&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&text=brek%0D%0Aprek%0D%0Agrek%0D%0Agrep%0D%0A%0D%0 Agreqi%0D%0Adreqi%0D%0A#sq/en/gjej) (find, find out, figure out) derives the noun gjeni. Because Italian doesn't use 'gj' it maps it to the closest letter 'g' and you have:
alb: gjeni => geni => ita: genio <-> eng: genius.

From Albanian 'tere' (http://translate.google.com/?sl=sq&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&text=brek%0D%0Aprek%0D%0Agrek%0D%0Agrep%0D%0A%0D%0 Agreqi%0D%0Adreqi%0D%0A#sq/en/tere) (whole / entire) derives 'territory'.

From Albanian 'famija' hes derive 'familja' (http://translate.google.com/?sl=sq&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&text=brek%0D%0Aprek%0D%0Agrek%0D%0Agrep%0D%0A%0D%0 Agreqi%0D%0Adreqi%0D%0A#sq/en/famije%2C%0Afamilje.) (just by inserting a 'l'), from which English (and many other languages) 'family' derives.

If Albanian is 'Dacian', how do you explain its influence on Italian/Latin and other languages?

[riverman]

Albanians. Illyria je Albania.

[aherne]

If Albanian is 'Dacian', how do you explain its influence on Italian/Latin and other languages?

Either you are a madman or you are trolling:) You have given examples of:
- coincidences sharing no linguistic foundation
- Romance words found in Albanian and English
- Aryan words shared by Albanian and other languages

[el22]

Either you are a madman or you are trolling:) You have given examples of:
- coincidences sharing no linguistic foundation
- Romance words found in Albanian and English
- Aryan words shared by Albanian and other languages

Either you are a madman, or you don't understand what coincidences mean.

alb: deshire (http://translate.google.com/?sl=sq&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&text=brek%0D%0Aprek%0D%0Agrek%0D%0Agrep%0D%0A%0D%0 Agreqi%0D%0Adreqi%0D%0A#sq/en/deshire) <-> eng: desire
alb: gjeni (http://translate.google.com/?sl=sq&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&text=brek%0D%0Aprek%0D%0Agrek%0D%0Agrep%0D%0A%0D%0 Agreqi%0D%0Adreqi%0D%0A#sq/en/gjeni) <-> eng: genius
alb: familje (http://translate.google.com/?sl=sq&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&text=brek%0D%0Aprek%0D%0Agrek%0D%0Agrep%0D%0A%0D%0 Agreqi%0D%0Adreqi%0D%0A#sq/en/familje) <-> eng: family

- What are the chances that hundreds of words "coincide" to be almost the same morphologically and have *the same meaning*?
- Pretty low. Therefore they can't be coincidences.

[Ianus]

Something like 10% of English and even more of Italian words derive from Albanian

http://d3.img.v4.skyrock.net/1731/32171731/pics/2874630794_1.gif

[Kalimtari]

http://d3.img.v4.skyrock.net/1731/32171731/pics/2874630794_1.gif

Some 85 Latin words have survived in Albanian but not (as inherited) in any Romance language. A few examples include bubulcus → bujk, hibernalia → mërrajë, sarcinarius → shelqëror, trifurcus → tërfurk, accipiter → skifter or qift, musconea → mushkonjë, chersydrus → kulshedër, spleneticum → shpnetkë/shpretkë, solanum → shullг/shullë

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanian_language

[Kalimtari]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfSBAXkA-7M


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKRBsGZ60-Y


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nn0OxpGxABs


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIenhUGRHRU


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut-4J6P-4-E


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMLqqVIN5Zk


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qE2mQFhSp-E


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pjcme0HWMo

[el22]

Some 85 Latin words have survived in Albanian but not (as inherited) in any Romance language. A few examples include bubulcus → bujk, hibernalia → mërrajë, sarcinarius → shelqëror, trifurcus → tërfurk, accipiter → skifter or qift, musconea → mushkonjë, chersydrus → kulshedër, spleneticum → shpnetkë/shpretkë, solanum → shullг/shullë

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanian_language

Latin was never a common people language, therefore no one "inherited" words from Latin.

lat: dominus, basta videre te istum-ipsum in illum speculum
eng: woman, enough watching yourself in the mirror

Common people never spoke like that. Latin is a language invented by priests, borrowing words and appending some suffix to make them "Latin".

[Kalimtari]

Latin was never a common people language, therefore no one "inherited" words from Latin.

lat: dominus, basta videre te istum-ipsum in illum speculum
eng: woman, enough watching yourself in the mirror

Common people never spoke like that. Latin is a language invented by priests, borrowing words and appending some suffix to make them "Latin".

le source, s'il te plaît?

:)

[el22]

le source, s'il te plaît?

:)

Religion works based on authority. Whatever the "authoritative source" says, it's true. Science is based on buon sense.

There are many Latin words that are very similar to present day words in several languages, except that the Latin words have an extra 'eum' or 'us'.

The first question is: Did Latins though about the words without the suffix and consciously added them, or they always thought of these words in their complete form (with the suffix) and never noticed that hundred of words ended the same way?

No reasonable person can accept that Latins never noticed that words ended the same, that they didn't consciously aimed to make those words end in the same suffix, that hundred of words "just coincided" to end in the same suffix.

So what we have here is this:
1. Latins thought of the words without the suffix.
2. Then they appended the suffix before anyone heard the un-suffixed version of those words.
3. Other people took these suffixed words from Latin. <- This is the claim
4. And they all in a pervert conspiracy removed the suffix.

Who can believe that?

[justme]

Because Albanian language is akin Romanian substrate (phonologically as well as in vocabulary) and a similar substrate operates in Bulgarian language as well (more evident in phonology than vocabulary, because prior to Slavicization people were already Romance/Greek speaking). Physically, Albanians resemble Dacians by many orders of magnitude more than Romanians. That guy in your avatar, for example, looks Dacian. Even Dacians' leader Burebista has 100% "Albanian" surname (burre-bishti (http://sq.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burebista), meaning snake-man). Evidence is quite clear as far as language is concerned. Albanian language either came from Dacian or from a related dialect.

Illyrians and Dacians were neighbours so it would be nothing special if they borrowed from each other. Some people believe Illyrians and Thracian were related, and Dacians are Thracians.

[Ianus]

Latin was never a common people language, therefore no one "inherited" words from Latin.


Like many other languages Latin has evolved over time, the Latin studied is the Classical Latin.

[EDMONDI]

The idea that only Albanians carry Illyrian genes is fantasy stuff. In reality many Southern Serbs, Croatians and Bosnians carry them too as is obvious from their Dinaric phenotypes.

[el22]

Like many other languages Latin has evolved over time, the Latin studied is the Classical Latin.

No, the language Romans spoke was different from Latin, and more similar with present day Italian. Latin is an artificial language created by appending some useless suffixes to proto-Italian. As I wrote in a previous post, it's quite unlikely that Romans thought of the words without the suffixes, then added those suffixes, other people took these words from Latin (with suffixes), and simultaneously removed the suffixes to obtain the words in the un-suffixed form that Romans thought of, but never used. This is hard to believe.

I think proto-Italian is a blend of at least two languages, where one of them was Albanian, the language that Toskans spoke.

[Ianus]

No, the language Romans spoke was different from Latin, and more similar with present day Italian. Latin is an artificial language created by appending some useless suffixes to proto-Italian

Ancient Latins used declinations, but subsequentely with evolution had fallen in disuse. Nowday apart Romanian no romance Language use declinations


I think proto-Italian is a blend of at least two languages, where one of them was Albanian, the language that Toskans spoke.


Albanians spoke protoitalian?:rotfl2:rotfl2:rotfl2:rotfl2

[el22]

Ancient Latins used declinations, but subsequentely with evolution had fallen in disuse. Nowday apart Romanian no romance Language use declinations

Is 'declinations' what you refer to common (and useless) suffixes like 'eum' or 'us'?


Albanians spoke protoitalian?:rotfl2:rotfl2:rotfl2:rotfl2

No, Albanians spoke Albanian. Toskans, who are Albnian tosks spoke Albanian as well, and this is why Italian and Albanian share something like 30% of their dictionary. Italian derives from a mix of Albanian and the language of the native people of Italy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etruria

Cities[edit source | editbeta]

Main article: Etruscan cities
Latin and Italian names are given between parentheses:
Arritim (Arretium, Arezzo)

Arritim
Arritem <-> eng: we arrived (http://translate.google.com/?sl=sq&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&text=arriti.%0D%0Aarritem.#sq/en/arriti.%0Aarrit%C3%ABm.)

The very first city name in the list of 12 cities of Etruscans is a present day Albanian word, and a very logical name for a city.
Even the words Etruria (the place) and Etruscan (the people) are Albanian words:

Etruria = E truria
Etruscan = E tru s kan <-> the brainy ones
(http://translate.google.com/?sl=sq&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&text=arriti.%0D%0Aarritem.#sq/en/etruria.%0Ae%20truria.%0Ae%20truscan.%0Ae%20tru%20 s%20kan.)

I can argue how a lot of Italian words actually originate in Albanian, including amico, nemico, oro, argento, dio, tera, etc.

[aherne]

Either you are a madman, or you don't understand what coincidences mean.

alb: deshire (http://translate.google.com/?sl=sq&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&text=brek%0D%0Aprek%0D%0Agrek%0D%0Agrep%0D%0A%0D%0 Agreqi%0D%0Adreqi%0D%0A#sq/en/deshire) <-> eng: desire
alb: gjeni (http://translate.google.com/?sl=sq&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&text=brek%0D%0Aprek%0D%0Agrek%0D%0Agrep%0D%0A%0D%0 Agreqi%0D%0Adreqi%0D%0A#sq/en/gjeni) <-> eng: genius
alb: familje (http://translate.google.com/?sl=sq&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&text=brek%0D%0Aprek%0D%0Agrek%0D%0Agrep%0D%0A%0D%0 Agreqi%0D%0Adreqi%0D%0A#sq/en/familje) <-> eng: family

- What are the chances that hundreds of words "coincide" to be almost the same morphologically and have *the same meaning*?
- Pretty low. Therefore they can't be coincidences.
You are right. They are no coincidences. They are Latin-derived words. You are such an ignorant person... LMAO

[aherne]

Is 'declinations' what you refer to common (and useless) suffixes like 'eum' or 'us'?



No, Albanians spoke Albanian. Toskans, who are Albnian tosks spoke Albanian as well, and this is why Italian and Albanian share something like 30% of their dictionary. Italian derives from a mix of Albanian and the language of the native people of Italy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etruria


Arritim
Arritem <-> eng: we arrived (http://translate.google.com/?sl=sq&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&text=arriti.%0D%0Aarritem.#sq/en/arriti.%0Aarrit%C3%ABm.)

The very first city name in the list of 12 cities of Etruscans is a present day Albanian word, and a very logical name for a city.
Even the words Etruria (the place) and Etruscan (the people) are Albanian words:

Etruria = E truria
Etruscan = E tru s kan <-> the brainy ones
(http://translate.google.com/?sl=sq&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&text=arriti.%0D%0Aarritem.#sq/en/etruria.%0Ae%20truria.%0Ae%20truscan.%0Ae%20tru%20 s%20kan.)

I can argue how a lot of Italian words actually originate in Albanian, including amico, nemico, oro, argento, dio, tera, etc.
:picard2:
:))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Very informative material. I'm starting to believe you are suffering from a mental illness or you are just extraordinarily ignorant. Even a villager from mountains of Albania knows more history than you:D

[Ianus]

Is 'declinations' what you refer to common (and useless) suffixes like 'eum' or 'us'?

They have fallen into disuse with the evolution of Language

Etruscan Language isn't an IE Language, so isn't related to Illyrian an IE Language. The only languages related to Etruscan are the Lemnian Language and Rhetic.


Etruria = E truria
Etruscan = E tru s kan <-> the brainy ones

Etruscan in the Roman name, they call themself rasna


I can argue how a lot of Italian words actually originate in Albanian, including amico, nemico, oro, argento, dio, tera, etc.

Any resemblance is due to the fact that Latin and Illyrian are both IE languages.

[el22]

You are right. They are no coincidences. They are Latin-derived words. You are such an ignorant person... LMAO

They can't be Latin derived because they derive from other shorter (and with a more basic meaning) Albanian words, while Latin (or any other language) never had them.

If you're lost in the jungle, or dying of thirst in the desert, the person that finds the way out or that finds the source of water is the most precious member of your crew - he is the finder.
If you're building a new or bigger ship or bridge, and are facing untried before challenges, the person that finds the solution to those challenges is again - the finder.

alb: gjej / gjen (http://translate.google.com/?sl=sq&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&text=arriti.%0D%0Aarritem.#sq/en/gjej) <-> eng: find / find out / figure out

From the verb 'find out / figure out' has derived the noun 'gjeni', and because (prot)Italian doesn't use 'gj' it maps it to 'g':
alb: (v) gjen => (n) gjeni => geni => ita: genio <-> eng: genius.

And so on...

[Pleurat]

Because Albanian language is akin Romanian substrate (phonologically as well as in vocabulary) and a similar substrate operates in Bulgarian language as well (more evident in phonology than vocabulary, because prior to Slavicization people were already Romance/Greek speaking). Physically, Albanians resemble Dacians by many orders of magnitude more than Romanians. That guy in your avatar, for example, looks Dacian. Even Dacians' leader Burebista has 100% "Albanian" surname (burre-bishti (http://sq.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burebista), meaning snake-man). Evidence is quite clear as far as language is concerned. Albanian language either came from Dacian or from a related dialect.


The man does not look Dacian, because dacians like todays romanians were mainly people compossed by alpine, pontids and dinarids with nordid and evan baltid admixture.

But I agree that this look is found only among albanians and not south slavs.

Look at the 3 vidios in my sig to see how we look like.

[el22]

Any resemblance is due to the fact that Latin and Illyrian are both IE languages.

Let me show how a couple of Italian words originate in Albanian:

Imagine if some armed person enter in a supermarket, someone notices him and screams: "Gun, has a gun, run!"

eng: gun, run <-> alb: arm, ik (http://translate.google.com/?sl=sq&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&text=arriti.%0D%0Aarritem.#sq/en/arme.%0Aik)

arm ik = armik <-> eng: enemy (http://translate.google.com/?sl=sq&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&text=arriti.%0D%0Aarritem.#sq/en/armik)

If an armed person approaches to you, you're scared and about to run away. If he doesn't have hostile intentions, he may say: "don't run away / I'm not hostile / I'm friendly"

eng: don't run away <-> alb mo ik (http://translate.google.com/?sl=sq&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&text=arriti.%0D%0Aarritem.#sq/en/mos%20ik)

alb: mo ik = moik => mik <-> fiend (http://translate.google.com/?sl=sq&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&text=arriti.%0D%0Aarritem.#sq/en/mik)

eng: is <-> alb: eshte (http://translate.google.com/?sl=sq&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&text=arriti.%0D%0Aarritem.#sq/en/eshte)
It originates this way:
alb: a => asht => eshte <-> eng: is (all forms are still in use).

We append an 'u' to bring words to definite form, so you have:
alb: a mik(u) <-> eng: is (the) friend
alb: a mik(u) = amik(u) => amiku + s => lat: amikus (or ital: amico) [k = c]

Italian has initally used 'ne' to mean 'no(t) as attested by 'nesuno'

ita: nesuno = ne s uno <-> eng: no * one

so you have:
ne mik(u) <-> eng: no(t) (the) fiend
ne mik(u) = nemik(u) = nemicu + s => lat: nemicus (or ital: nemico)

[justme]

The idea that only Albanians carry Illyrian genes is fantasy stuff. In reality many Southern Serbs, Croatians and Bosnians carry them too as is obvious from their Dinaric phenotypes.

Albanians are Illyrian both linguistically genetically phenotype wise. In fact Albanians are an admixture of mainly Illyrian and Thracian.

[Jocorpi]

Both.

[Kelmendasi]

Albanians, South Slavs are Slavs as suggested by the name

[Lek]

Albanians J2b2 L283 + R1b L23