British Israelism

[British and Proud]

From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Israelism):


British Israelism (also called Anglo-Israelism) is the claim that people of Western European descent are also the direct lineal descendants of the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel, and it is often accompanied by the belief that the British Royal Family is directly descended from the line of King David.[1][2] Due to the amorphous nature of this idea over the years, there has not been a central head, a recognised leadership, or an organisational structure to the movement. This has led to a diverse set of beliefs and claims that are ancillary to the core genealogical theory. British Israelism has been accorded little scientific proof[3][4] and it has resultantly been the subject of much criticism by antagonists of the theory.

I don't know much about this particular creed, but I must confess to being rather intrigued.

There is a British-Israeli Church in London - http://www.orange-street-church.org/


Beliefs of Orange Street Congregational Church

We Believe: The Bible to be the inspired and true Word of God.

We Believe: That Jesus, the Messiah or the Christ, is God the Son, the second person of the Trinity, and that He took our human nature upon Him in order that He might become the Redeemer and the only Saviour of mankind.

We Believe: While acknowledging God the Son to be the Living Word, that chosen men spoke therein as they were moved by God the Holy Spirit.

We Believe: That the personal visible return of the Lord Jesus in power and great glory, as part of God's great plan for the restoration of all creation to a state of harmony with His gracious will - is imminent.

We Believe: That in the matter of personal salvation there is no distinction of race. All races are dependent upon the saving grace of the Lord Jesus.

We Believe: That the descendants of Jacob, grandson of Abraham, are a distinct and separate people from those who call themselves Jews today.
The nation of Israel was divided into two Kingdoms, one was called Judah and the other Israel. Around 745-676 B.C. the Kingdom of Israel was taken captive into Assyria and never returned to Palestine and henceforth became known as "The Lost Tribes of Israel." History tells us their migrations from Assyria via Southern Russia through Europe under a variety of names such as Cimmerians, Goths, Angles, Jutes, Saxons, Danes, Vikings and Normans.

We Believe: The true descendants of Israel are in the Celto-Anglo-Saxon, Scandinavian, Germanic and Dutch/Holland peoples in Australia, Canada, South Africa, New Zealand and America (A Great Nation) and the British Isles (A Great Nation and Company of Nations).

We Believe: The Royal Family is directly descended from the Line of David.

[Osweo]

Embarrassing idiocy. Wants isolating and sustained mockery.

[Loki]

I don't know much about this particular creed, but I must confess to being rather intrigued.



I know a lot about it. It may be intriguing, but trust me - it's a load of bollocks.

[Loki]

Anyone who knows a little about history can easily disprove these theories.

This idea is based on the Ten Lost Tribes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_lost_tribes) speculation. Around 722 BC the Assyrians captured 10 of the 12 tribes of Israel, and took them away from their land into captivity. They never return, and the two tribes that remain in Palestine become the "Jews" of today.

Whilst there is a profound mystery with regards to what actually happened to the bulk of the Israelites of old, Europeans of Celtic culture were known now to have been in central Europe long before the Assyrian exile. The earliest Hallstatt Celtic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallstatt_culture) culture dates from the 12th century BC. Identitarian/British Israelism theory takes advantage of the fact that not much is known about Germanic history before the Romans started documenting it. A lot of it remains obscure. However, the same cannot be said of the Celts. Nevetheless there is plenty of evidence of ancient proto-Germanic artefacts and culture around. They've been in Scandinavia for a long time, before pressing southward after a seeming population explosion.

[Fortis in Arduis]

A racialist spiritual belief system. Um... does this not come the Enlightenment period?

[Treffie]

I know a lot about it. It may be intriguing, but trust me - it's a load of bollocks.

So is this one - www.britam.org

[Fortis in Arduis]

British and Proud, are you sure that you are not a 'sock puppet' for this peculiar organisation? :D

[Allenson]

I think that the Anglo-Israelite folks should have a serious gander at history, physical anthropology & of course, population genetics.

After this, it should be quite clear to them that they need to just close down shop and give up the (holy) ghost. ;)

[British and Proud]

British and Proud, are you sure that you are not a 'sock puppet' for this peculiar organisation? :D

I am perfectly sure. I came across it whilst perusing the North West 'Nationalists' Forum, which (unusually for me) I looked at having seen Lee Barnes' article yesterday.

Being a Christian I find it quite interesting. Though it may well be rubbish, I thought it was worth sharing, anyway.

[Fortis in Arduis]

Yes, but some people do seem to need to suspend rational thought in order to embrace their spiritual side. So what is so bad about British Israelism in that context?

[Widukind]

Being a Christian I find it quite interesting. Though it may well be rubbish, I thought it was worth sharing, anyway.
Only for Christian's. :)

[Smaland]

For anyone who wants to inquire further, there is the British Israel World Federation.

Federation website: http://www.britishisrael.co.uk/

[Cato]

So is this one - www.britam.org

Brit-am isn't Christian though; it's the work of a Jewish fellow in Jerusalem or thereabouts who's apparently done a lot of digging through biblical and extra-biblical sources. He's come to the conclusions that western Europeans are the progeny of the ten lost tribes, although he seems to admit that the exiled Israelites interbred with non-Israelitish folk. Modern western Europeans are "brit-am" (people of the covenant) who've lost their identity as a part of Jehovah's people. They're Hebrews or Israelites, but so too are the Jews (descendants of the kingdom of Judah rather than the northern kingdom). The true religion of the brit-am peoples is, of course, Mosaic religion or some variation thereof (unitarian monotheism). The implication that I've taken away is that the ten lost tribes aren't bound by the all of the regulations of the Mosaic law because of the sundering of their [true] ethnic identity as Israelites. What this leaves then is, I suppose, what are called the Noachic laws: seven general laws governing morality and worship, supposedly given to Noah after the deluge.

I found that website a while ago on the suggestion of a Jewish acquaintance of mine and it's pretty interesting in a pseudo-historical sense.

[Gooding]

Embarrassing idiocy. Wants isolating and sustained mockery.

Agreed. I would've thought that ideas like like would have gone out with the close of the Nineteenth Century, along with the beliefs that American Indians were actually Jews, or feeling the bumps on a person's head could tell you what that person's intellectual strengths and weaknesses were..rather archaic ideas, no?

[Angantyr]

Agreed. I would've thought that ideas like like would have gone out with the close of the Nineteenth Century, along with the beliefs that American Indians were actually Jews, or feeling the bumps on a person's head could tell you what that person's intellectual strengths and weaknesses were..rather archaic ideas, no?

No matter how crazy an idea is, it will always find a couple of supporters. There are still flat-earthers out there, some of whom have flown "around" the earth. And on this very board, there are people who support lunatic conspiracy theories with equal faith and devotion.

Get me a tin foil hat. I sense that Jews are trying to beam thoughts into my head to make me buy processed cheese food.

[Sol Invictus]

No matter how crazy an idea is, it will always find a couple of supporters. There are still flat-earthers out there, some of whom have flown "around" the earth. And on this very board, there are people who support lunatic conspiracy theories with equal faith and devotion.

Get me a tin foil hat. I sense that Jews are trying to beam thoughts into my head to make me buy processed cheese food.

How on earth are you trying to make a parallel between adherents of British Israelism and so-called 'Lunatic Conspiracy Theorists' and the people on this board who support the 9/11 Truth Movement? For one thing, British Israelism is a misinterpretation and on often outright fabrication and lying. The 9/11 Truthers, or as you would call us, 'lunatic conspiracy theorists', have reasonable doubt because we have seen the facts and issues and we believe a proper investigation should be conducted. Look into it yourself.

KXcWoxrvraQ

[Rudy]

The marriage of Jewish finance and British aristocracy took place literally. Spendthrift gentry married the daughters of rich Jews.

Pine is scornful of the British aristocracy: "A man is not usually thought the more of, because he has married a woman for her money...An ancient estate is likely to be sold unless some large sums are found. The sums are found from marriage with a Jewish heiress..."
http://www.henrymakow.com/englands_jewish_aristocracy.html
Makow wrote an article on British and Jewish mixing. Some aristocrats are either intermarried, or believe they are descended from Jews.
There may have been some original Jews in southern Germania during the Roman empire, but I think their dna would test well mixed by now.

[Angantyr]

How on earth are you trying to make a parallel between adherents of British Israelism and so-called 'Lunatic Conspiracy Theorists' and the people on this board who support the 9/11 Truth Movement? For one thing, British Israelism is a misinterpretation and on often outright fabrication and lying. The 9/11 Truthers, or as you would call us, 'lunatic conspiracy theorists', have reasonable doubt because we have seen the facts and issues and we believe a proper investigation should be conducted. Look into it yourself.


The British Israelites would make the same claim about reaonableness and would state that they have seen the facts and issues. They also do not classify themselves as lunatics. They would also challenge me to look into it myself.

Lunatic theorists may see themselves as different (whether it be 9/11, flat earth, Mormonism, phrenology, etc.), but from the outside, we cannot distinguish one set of ridiculous beliefs from another.

I assure you that I have looked into both and they both came up ridiculous.

[Smaland]

Another British Israel website: http://www.nordiskisrael.dk/

The proprietor is Mikkel Stjernholm Kragh of Denmark.

[Loki]

Another British Israel website: http://www.nordiskisrael.dk/

The proprietor is Mikkel Stjernholm Kragh of Denmark.

LOL!

http://www.nordiskisrael.dk/12_israel_tribes_in_europe.bmp-for-web-large.jpg

This is comical! Finnswedes classify as "Scattered Israelites". :D Sorry Jarl, Poles-not-included. :( One mega plus point to this religion though, it cuts out the Irish! :D

[Óttar]

Yes, but some people do seem to need to suspend rational thought in order to embrace their spiritual side. So what is so bad about British Israelism in that context?

I detest people who make a mockery of history, spreading lies about it for others to be fooled. There are more than plenty out there who use religion as a vehicle for their own craziness, which then many times becomes a state-sponsored institutionalized craziness with far-reaching consequences.

[Osweo]

It's all about the democratisation of knowledge and its access. All the arguments that were settled among educated men two hundred years ago have suddenly sprung back to life! If I didn't stop myself, I'd end up fighting these same corners every single hour on the Net, whenever some spotty teenager digs up some old garbage that fits with his own semi-formed ideas...

"Damn, that holy book we've been using for centuries actually turns out to be about Jews! What are we going to do?!??! Or maybe... Aye, that MUST be it! We ARE Jews!"

[Cato]

I detest people who make a mockery of history, spreading lies about it for others to be fooled.

There's a difference between spreading lies and earnestly believing what you spread. Take, for example, the belief that the old Romans had that they were the progeny of Dardanians and Trojans. It was truth to the old Romans, but we call it a myth now. Likewise, some people earnestly believe themselves to be the progeny of the lost ten tribes or whatever. This is psuedo-science, and very few people who have even a basic grasp of anthropology and history and such will take such a notion seriously. It's a quaint parochialism, like "here be dragons" and more than a bit of infatuation with the yarns of the bible, as if, say, a mythical Israelite ancestry is better than any other bloodline in the world.

[lei.talk]

All the arguments that were settled among educated men two hundred years ago have suddenly sprung back to life!unfortunately, no one is born with knowledge
from previous generations.

each is born an ignorant savage.

"In Alfred Korzybski (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korzybski)'s framework time binding is the third level in a progression of bindings. Energy binding is what all life forms do in the process of converting ambient energy for use in their life processes. Space binding is performed by animals and to a much lesser degree by some plants in their various activities. Finally, through language and culture, sapient beings such as humans perform time binding by the transmission of knowledge and abstractions through time which are accreted in cultures."

government mandated education is ineffective (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeschooling#History)
at knowledge-transmission. it is an indoctrination-mechanism.
If I didn't stop myself,
I'd end up fighting these same corners every single hour on the Net,
whenever some spotty teenager digs up some old garbage...burdened with the same tendency (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?p=65435#post65435), but,
with limited time to do so -

rather than post a detailed response
to each erroneous post and reality-challenged opinion,
it seemed a more productive use of my time
to write articles once
and post an url-link to the appropriate subject (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:Contents/Overviews) -

so readers of foolishness may contrast it to facts
and reach an informed conclusion.

that is the true "democratisation of knowledge and its access".

[Nodens]

I do enjoy the subtle irony in British Israelism/Christian Identity, as the position implies that the Slavs, Meds and (some) Celts are the true Europeans whilst the Germanic tribes are Jewish pretenders.

[Cato]

The ancestors of the Germanic tribes are, in some cases, said to have been the Scythians, who were known to the Persians as the Saka. The Saka appear in history at around the same time that the northern kingdom of Israel was destroyed/deported by Assyria. Put two and two together and, blammo, you've got a solid story and, rather than saying that the Germanic tribes have a potential connection to the Indo-Iranians (which is what you'd actually expect given that the Germanics are genetically related to the Indo-Iranians), they're all of a sudden Semitic Hebrews. :eek:

[Nosi]

British Israelism teaches that the Jews are of the Tribe of Judah whereas Identity teaches that the Jews are the offspring of Satan and Eve. British Israelism also teaches that the Germans are Assyrians but Identity says that they are of the Tribe of Judah.

[Thor]

http://christogenea.org/

[Cato]

Wow, this one is pretty.. Wow.

http://christogenea.org/TrojanRomanJudah

Classical Records of Trojan-Roman-Judah.

[Pyramidologist]

Old thread, if anyone is interested in the truth behind BI, see my essay (note i'm not a BI proponent, but it has some truth). For over 5 years, i subscribed to the BI genealogical theory, mainly because my grandfather was a BI and i am a book collector, inherited most of his BI texts. Though i've also spent about £1000 on other BI texts myself.

The main reasons i left mainstream BI are its problems with anthropology and archaeology, and i feel quite ashamed for wasting so much time with it, this is despite the fact it does have some truth behind it (as shall be covered below).

The Truth behind British Israelism

British Israelites claim that after the Assyrian deportation of the House of Israel (the 10 lost tribes) to the Medes and Assyria (Halah) in the 8th century BC, they never returned to the northern Kingdom of Israel (Samaria). This claim is partially correct, but not fully. A certain population of the House of Israel never returned, but there is scriptural evidence of a small population belonging to the House of Israel as having returned to the northern Kingdom of Israel. The later books of the Old Testament (2 Chronicles 35: 18) as well as the New Testament contain such examples e.g. Anna of the tribe of Asher (Luke 2: 36). That the Assyrian deportation of the Israelites took place in the first place has of course been confirmed by archaeology such as Assyrian cuneiform sources and the Nimrud Prism which records that Sargon II deported 27,290 Israelites to Assyria (see Cuneiform Inscriptions and the Old Testament).

BI next claims that the Israelites after being deported to the Medes and Assyria became the ancient Parthian, Scythian (Saka) and Cimmerian (Kimmerian) peoples. This claim again is partially correct, but it is absurd to believe like the BI's do that the Israelites literally became those people. Instead the evidence seems to suggest the Israelites intermarried with those already existant populations. In contrast BI's maintain that the Israelites became suddenly those people, losing their Hebrew language, culture, customs, religion as so forth by divine intervention by God himself and then morphed into another people entirely. When i was a BI this was always something i could never come to terms with, Edward Hine for example interpreted Isaiah 28: 11 as evidence that God had directly changed the tongue of the Israelites (Hebrew) into something else.

The Israelite Cimmerian (Kimmerian) connection was never initially developed by British Israelites, but instead by the scholar George Rawlinson who in a footnote of his translation of Herodotus (vii. p. 378) wrote: ''We have reasonable grounds for regarding the Gimirri, or Cimmerians, who first appeared on the confines of Assyria and Media in the seventh century B.C., and the Sacae of the Behistun Rock, nearly two centuries later, as identical with the Beth-Khumree of Samaria, or the Ten Tribes of the House of Israel.'' Rawlinson's brother, Henry, made the first translation of the Behistun Rock inscription.

The Israelites, under the ''House of Omri'' (I Kings 16: 23) appear in Assyrian cuneiform texts as ''Bit-Kumri'' or ''Khumri'' and on the Black Obelisk (c. 835 BC) the son of the Israelite Kings Jehu is called ''Son of Khumri'' (see Luckenbill, The Ancient Records of Assyria and Babylonia, Vol. i, p. 46). Therefore the deported Israelites appear in Assyrian inscriptions and texts as ''Khumri'' or ''Bit-Kumri''. These terms also appear in Babylonian sources as ''Gimiri'', according to Pinches (1903, p. 39): ''Omri was likewise pronounced in accordance with the older system, before the grain became ayim. Humri shows that they said at the time Ghomri'' (g = kh). As a land Gimira was identified by ancient authors as the home of the (Indo-European) ''Kimmerians'', who of course phonetically appear equivilant to the Khumri or Kumri (Gimmiri).

Despite Rawlinson's linkage of the Israelites through philology and later by his brother who translated the Behistun Rock (the inscription connects the people known in Old Persian as Saka, Sacae or Scythian with the people known in Babylonian as Gimirri) he never maintained that the Israelites literally became the Cimmerians (Kimmerians) or Scythians. The Bible Research Handbook (1972) thus notes:


''Sir Henry Rawlinson, who first copied and translated the inscription – although not disposed definitely to identify these Gimiri with the Cimmerians (Kimmerii or Cumri) – was prepared to accept the probability of a connection between them''.


This ''connection'' could have only been the fact the remaining population Israelites after the Assyrian deportation intermarried with the Indo-European Kimmerians and Scythians of the region they nearby wandered into. British Israelites however do not maintain that these populations were ever there prior to the Israelites moving into the region and so they maintain that the Israelites literally morphed into the Indo-European Scythic tribes there - which as noted is completely absurb and contradicted by the evidence.


This evidently means the Israelites today are to be found in European populations, precisely where the Cimmerian (Kimmerian) or Scythians moved into. However according to the author(s) of 2 Kings 17:23 and 1 Chron 5:26, the tribes of the House of Israel (e.g. Gad, Reuben) were still in the region of the Medes (Median Empire) which covered territory adjacent to the Black Sea where the Scythians and Kimmerians dwelled. Since the Book of Chronicles dates to the 5th - 4th century BC, this means the Israelites by that time were still living around the Black Sea region, and clearly they must have been assimilated into the Indo-European Scythian population. That admixture took place is clearly evident by the fact that there appears to be from classical literature and artwork evidence of different racial types among the Scythian population. The Israelites, who were predominatly of the darker Mediterranid-Semitic phenotype introduced the 'hook-nose' to the Scythian population. The hook nose of some Scythians, is found detailed in various ancient writings, for example John Philoponus. [3] Various skulls of the Armenoid type have also been found in Scythian Steppe burials and various art depictions of Scythians show this more swarthy, dark haired type.

In sharp contrast, other art depictions and ancient literature sources detail some Scythians as blonde haired, light eyed and having non-hooked (straight) noses. This variety in appearance i believe clearly points to a foreign (Armenoid) racial element among the Scythians, which i believe was introduced by the Israelites. Ancient literature describes the Scythians as having wandered across Europe, even reseaching Britain. Such sources however should of course be read with caution, as there were many legends of descent around at the time, but of course some Scythians probably entered Northern-Europe. Modern scholary consensus is that the Scythians amalgamated into various Slavic groups.

[Loddfafner]

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[RagnarLodbrok666]

The ancestors of the Germanic tribes are, in some cases, said to have been the Scythians, who were known to the Persians as the Saka. The Saka appear in history at around the same time that the northern kingdom of Israel was destroyed/deported by Assyria. Put two and two together and, blammo, you've got a solid story and, rather than saying that the Germanic tribes have a potential connection to the Indo-Iranians (which is what you'd actually expect given that the Germanics are genetically related to the Indo-Iranians), they're all of a sudden Semitic Hebrews. :eek:

There is no truth to this what so ever. The saka were blood brothers of the samaritans and spoke their same language. The Samaritans were second class citizens in Isreal and were seen as and treated like dogs by the Jews.

[Phil75231]

There's a reason I never heard of British Israelism until sometime in the past 5 or 10 years -- it's so untrue* that even before the advent of modern anthropology it was so obviously nationalistic that it immediately brings skepticism to the minds of unbiased people. To say this is one of the less profound lines of thought the UK ever produced is to put the matter politely.

*As if truth, in the either-or sense, is a matter of degree!

[Ánleifr]

This website makes some interesting points although they are NOT advocating British Israelism. It simply maps out what happened to the Northern Kingdom of Israel by way of what the Bible says.

http://jewsandjoes.com/the-10-lost-tribes-of-israel.html

[Uhtred]

Yes, I have already heard of it. It's so funny!

[Ánleifr]

heres another one:

http://destination-yisrael.biblesearchers.com/destination-yisrael/2011/05/a-royal-israelite-wedding-of-the-tribe-of-ephraim-prince-william-and-catherine-middleton-at-westmins.html

[Ánleifr]

and: http://www.triumphpro.com/heraldic-emblems-of-us.pdf