Are Uralic people white? [Archive] - The Apricity Forum: A European Cultural Community

alfieb

04-15-2013, 09:01 AM

Racially, I would say that some (such as Hungarians/Szekelys, Finns) are. Others (Khanties) definitely aren't.

Others (like the Saami) are somewhere in between.

Culturally, no. Finns and Estonians are semi-Europeanized, and Hungarians are mostly Europeanized, but they haven't divorced themselves entirely from the far East. There's a reason that there are Hungarians in Kazakhstan that call themselves Magyars and never made it to Europe. There is a reason that the first non-Asian person to be elected to the Japanese parliament was a Finn.

Loki

04-15-2013, 09:03 AM

Racially, I would say that some (such as Hungarians/Szekelys, Finns) are. Others (Khanties) definitely aren't.

Others (like the Saami) are somewhere in between.

Culturally, no. Finns and Estonians are semi-Europeanized, and Hungarians are mostly Europeanized, but they haven't divorced themselves entirely from the far East.

I think Hungarians are the most European culturally of all the Uralic speakers. And no surprise, it was right near immense European cultural centres like Vienna.

alfieb

04-15-2013, 09:06 AM

I think Hungarians are the most European culturally of all the Uralic speakers. And no surprise, it was right near immense European cultural centres like Vienna.
And yet many consider themselves Turanids and choose to associate with Turkey and their brothers in Kazakhstan rather than their former friends in Austria and the Czech Republic. They have much more shared history with Romanians than with Turks, but Romania and Hungary hate each-other.

Not to mention Hungarians put their surname before their given name, and love names like Attila and Bleda, enemies of European people. Indeed, Budapest was actually named after Bleda the Hun, even though the Huns were not Magyars.

RussiaPrussia

04-15-2013, 09:29 AM

alfieb

04-15-2013, 09:31 AM

sevruk

04-15-2013, 09:46 AM

only mordovian-erzya is full white

Harkonnen

04-15-2013, 09:48 AM

Moksha, Erzä, Komi are whiter than Hungarians. Hungarians are wogs compared to those folks.

safinator

04-15-2013, 09:49 AM

only mordovian-erzya is full white

What about Udmurts?
Theu have a lot of red heads apparently.

RussiaPrussia

04-15-2013, 09:53 AM

Translation: "I have Uralic blood and therefore I need to defend them in order to defend myself."

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I have no such problem.

as a russian theoretically i couldnt care less since its about uralic people but i know you also said the same thing about russians so i wanted to defend them. Russians mixed with uralic but like i said whats so bad having asian blood it? gives russians and finns their certain appeal.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xy2uwl_russian-women_creation#.UWvNZZa7bfU

its 100 times better than being 100% wog in the first place.

Harkonnen

04-15-2013, 09:53 AM

What about Udmurts?
Theu have a lot of red heads apparently.

Udmurts are extra white.

http://i37.tinypic.com/r2rcwi.jpg

They're into goat herding it seems. I think that's a wog custom. Bit strange meh.

alfieb

04-15-2013, 09:54 AM

Harkonnen

04-15-2013, 09:56 AM

Khanty's are not proper Uralics. They're Uralified Siberians. Still the first guy looks white as fuck.

Loki

04-15-2013, 09:56 AM

http://de.academic.ru/pictures/dewiki/79/Ostyak.jpg

Could he pass as Estonian?

RussiaPrussia

04-15-2013, 09:56 AM

http://de.academic.ru/pictures/dewiki/79/Ostyak.jpg
http://www.distancelearninghelpers.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/1873782.jpg

Uralic Khanty Russian men.

According to RussiaPrussia, white guys. According to someone with eyes, neither are white.

http://www.nba.fi/hanti/kuvat1/SUK-36_9_565.jpg

Uralic Mansi Russians. To RussiaPrussia, white. To anyone with a degree of objectivity, not white.

and where they look less white than wogs? if they would wash they would look like this

http://thumbs2.modthesims.info/img/2/6/0/3/3/2/9/MTS_ajafong-1032898-JapaneseGirl.jpg

alfieb

04-15-2013, 09:58 AM

and where they look less white than wogs? if they would wash they would look like this

Apparently to dense Eurasians from the East, "white" is merely someone with pale skin color. That makes sense, as it is to your political advantage. Unfortunately, life doesn't work that way.

Kastrioti1443

04-15-2013, 10:04 AM

and where they look less white than wogs? if they would wash they would look like this

http://thumbs2.modthesims.info/img/2/6/0/3/3/2/9/MTS_ajafong-1032898-JapaneseGirl.jpg

You are a moron, in order to be white you have to be caucasian. The southern rednecks would have killed these mongols, just like they did with the niggers, indians and some southern italians

StonyArabia

04-15-2013, 10:10 AM

Uralic people are mixed race. Their mixture of Caucasian and Mongoloids. Some well look Caucasoid and others Mongoloid but most will look in between this quite common among mixed race populations.

Smaug

04-15-2013, 10:10 AM

Quite much like Indo-European peoples: some are, some aren't.

Harkonnen

04-15-2013, 10:12 AM

Uralic people are mixed race. Their mixture of Caucasian and Mongoloids.

Actually very little Caucasian blood on Uralics. Only North Euro ;)

Harkonnen

04-15-2013, 10:13 AM

Quite much like Indo-European peoples: some are, some aren't.

Yeah but on average Uralic people are whiter than Indoeuropean peoples. Also all the uberwhites are Uralics.

sevruk

04-15-2013, 10:14 AM

Could he pass as Estonian?

Could he pass as Karl

StonyArabia

04-15-2013, 10:14 AM

I saw Komi who looked Nordic. I think the Uralic people were Caucasian originally.

alfieb

04-15-2013, 10:18 AM

You are a moron, in order to be white you have to be caucasian. The southern rednecks would have killed these mongols, just like they did with the niggers, indians and some southern italians
Absolutely, there were Sicilian immigrants in New Orleans 100-125 years ago that were hanged by rednecks.

Issy

04-15-2013, 10:18 AM

Apparently to dense Eurasians from the East, "white" is merely someone with pale skin color. That makes sense, as it is to your political advantage. Unfortunately, life doesn't work that way.

I don't understand this either. Does one become "white" according to skin colour? I always thought it referred to people with a western cultural mindset.

Harkonnen

04-15-2013, 10:19 AM

I don't understand this either. Does one become "white" according to skin colour? I always thought it referred to people with a western cultural mindset.

Mindless drones?

Anglojew

04-15-2013, 10:20 AM

alfieb

04-15-2013, 10:21 AM

I don't understand this either. Does one become "white" according to skin colour? I always thought it referred to people with a western cultural mindset.
Whiteness in the USA refers to the Caucasoid race (from Moroccans in the West to Iran in the East)

What it refers to in Russia, I have no idea... but Mary says that Russians don't think they're white anyway.

Kastrioti1443

04-15-2013, 10:22 AM

Absolutely, there were Sicilian immigrants in New Orleans 100-125 years ago that were hanged by rednecks.

Hanged???

Harkonnen

04-15-2013, 10:22 AM

Could he pass as Karl

I think he looks quite similar to Karl. I don't care what mindless drones think, dudes clearly whitey. Just look at that molloch head. That's a pure unreduced cromag baby.

RussiaPrussia

04-15-2013, 10:23 AM

You are a moron, in order to be white you have to be caucasian. The southern rednecks would have killed these mongols, just like they did with the niggers, indians and some southern italians

youre just mad that she looks whiter than you

haters gonna hate
http://www.fecielo.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/japanese-girls-in-kimono.jpg

alfieb

04-15-2013, 10:25 AM

Hanged???

http://www.filmandhistory.org/documentary/americanhistory1/linciati.php

Arbërori

04-15-2013, 10:30 AM

I like Japs, but sorry to burst your people RP, they're not white.

What happened to those Sicilian immigrants is barbaric!

Harkonnen

04-15-2013, 10:40 AM

One guy is a Hollywood Hunk, the other is Khanty Cowboy. Which is which? Don't cheat!!

Mr A

http://de.academic.ru/pictures/dewiki/79/Ostyak.jpg

Mr B

http://www.nypost.com/rw/nypost/2009/12/01/pagesix/photos_stories/cropped/richard_gere--300x300.jpg

Daniyyel

04-15-2013, 11:02 AM

Those who aren't are probably admixed with altaic populations, there are however reverse examples, like chuvash:
http://www.joshuaproject.net/profiles/photos/p11382.jpg
http://engagerussia.org/images/chuvash.jpg
Seeing as all Europeans have Finnish genes, but not all Finns have european genes, and the possibility of PIE being related to Uralic (http://www.kortlandt.nl/publications/art203e.pdf), we could suppose uralics are a part of a base of what makes whites

Smaug

04-15-2013, 01:00 PM

Yeah but on average Uralic people are whiter than Indoeuropean peoples. Also all the uberwhites are Uralics.

No. There isn't such a thing as "whiter", you are talking about pigmentation. Greeks are as white as Finns.

alfieb

04-15-2013, 01:00 PM

No. There isn't such a thing as "whiter", you are talking about pigmentation. Greeks are as white as Finns.
Whiter, racially, in terms of DNA.

member

04-15-2013, 01:05 PM

Yeah but on average Uralic people are whiter than Indoeuropean peoples. Also all the uberwhites are Uralics.

Uralics care some Indo-European blood, especially your Estonians and Finns. Deal with it.

alfieb

04-15-2013, 01:06 PM

Whiter, racially, in terms of DNA.

Dodecad K12:

Finnish_D - 7.9% non-Caucasoid (East Asian + Southeast Asian + South Asian + Siberian)
Greek_D - 1.0% non-Caucasoid (East Asian + Southeast Asian + South Asian + Siberian)

Neither had any SSA.

RussiaPrussia

04-15-2013, 01:08 PM

I like Japs, but sorry to burst your people RP, they're not white.

What happened to those Sicilian immigrants is barbaric!

doesnt matter they look more white

Vesuvian Sky

04-15-2013, 01:19 PM

doesnt matter they look more white

C'mon RP what's going on here man? :)

I've been to Japan and truthfully most Japs lack that whole Yaknoid look (or whatever its called...) or even Ainu looking components. I'd place them as very east-Asian/Mongoloid looking.

Not to mention that they can have flat out "yellow" skin.

And there's of course more to looking "white" or caucosoid then just skin tone.

I've been to Italy during tourist season and the Jap tourists really don't fit in as "white" or Caucuasoid among the locals (or any other Euro nation visiting there for that matter). They stick out like soar thumbs for what they are: east-Asian mongs.

RussiaPrussia

04-15-2013, 01:24 PM

C'mon RP what's going on here man? :)

I've been to Japan and truthfully most Japs lack that whole Yaknoid look (or whatever its called...) or even Ainu looking components. I'd place them as very east-Asian/Mongoloid looking.

Not to mention that they can have flat out "yellow" skin.

And there's of course more to looking "white" or caucosoid then just skin tone.

I've been to Italy during tourist season and the Jap tourists really don't fit in as "white" or Caucuasoid among the locals (or any other Euro nation visiting there for that matter). They stick out like soar thumbs for what they are: east-Asian mongs.

its about definition and opinion.

Kastrioti1443

04-15-2013, 01:25 PM

youre just mad that she looks whiter than you

haters gonna hate
http://www.fecielo.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/japanese-girls-in-kimono.jpg

Be aware of what you are saying mongol, because I am dark blond with blue eyes around 198-199 cm tall. How tall are you mongol??

These are subhuman mongoloids, that is all

Ants

04-15-2013, 01:33 PM

Haters gonna hate

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u180/Kustas/haters_zps92739d34.jpg

Kastrioti1443

04-15-2013, 01:36 PM

Haters gonna hate

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u180/Kustas/haters_zps92739d34.jpg

these people have no connection to light estonians

Ants

04-15-2013, 01:37 PM

What are you saying, that's my sister! :(

Dombra

04-15-2013, 01:39 PM

Most are European, some futher away in Russia is up to debate

Hoca

04-15-2013, 01:46 PM

Uralic are not white, they are their own people.

Be aware of what you are saying mongol, because I am dark blond with blue eyes around 198-199 cm tall. How tall are you mongol??

These are subhuman mongoloids, that is all

I rather be Mongol than Albanian.

as a russian theoretically i couldnt care less since its about uralic people but i know you also said the same thing about russians so i wanted to defend them. Russians mixed with uralic but like i said whats so bad having asian blood it? gives russians and finns their certain appeal.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xy2uwl_russian-women_creation#.UWvNZZa7bfU

its 100 times better than being 100% wog in the first place.
how do you know she has Asian blood?

I don't know about her but I know a lot of Russians have Tatar blood

RussiaPrussia

04-15-2013, 01:57 PM

Be aware of what you are saying mongol, because I am dark blond with blue eyes around 198-199 cm tall. How tall are you mongol??

These are subhuman mongoloids, that is all

haha sure, albanians are wogs. So what east asians have higher IQ than you while albania has the lowest in europe. Being tall has nothing to with being white.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_qZGouBqZeg8/SuHbI_zoEfI/AAAAAAAABWg/v1JM1tkdtNU/s1600/IQ+Map.JPG

http://thelearningcurve.pearson.com/index/index-ranking

its good to have some east asian genes im proud of it

look where sweden and norway and look where russia and finland are

Kastrioti1443

04-15-2013, 02:01 PM

haha sure, albanians are wogs. So what east asians have higher IQ than you while albania has the lowest in europe. Being tall has nothing to with being white.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_qZGouBqZeg8/SuHbI_zoEfI/AAAAAAAABWg/v1JM1tkdtNU/s1600/IQ+Map.JPG

http://thelearningcurve.pearson.com/index/index-ranking

its good to have some east asian genes im proud of it

look where sweden and norway and look where russia and finland is

shut the fuck up subhuman mongol midget, the heavy majority of albanians can fit everywhere in Europe, from skandinavia to spain, at least my family and cousins can all fit in northern europe, you are a mongol with slanted eyes, subhuman

those iq maps prove nothing, there is another iq study which says that albanians have 116 IQ

Arbërori

04-15-2013, 02:03 PM

RP, stick to anime porn, won't you? :coffee:

RussiaPrussia

04-15-2013, 02:05 PM

those iq maps prove nothing, there is another iq study which says that albanians have 116 IQ

wo von träumst du nachts

shut the fuck up subhuman mongol midget, the heavy majority of albanians can fit everywhere in Europe, from skandinavia to spain, at least my family and cousins can all fit in northern europe, you are a mongol with slanted eyes, subhuman

lol

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-eqhQhrOT-Ck/UAAA-9E-B0I/AAAAAAAAABc/o-4yE8Ou6i4/s1600/europe-eyes-general--lig.png

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-9Q4mLyz4Bic/UNcrB8kDXEI/AAAAAAAAAY8/eBkc4ur1lTw/s1600/Light+Hair+in+Europe.png

Szegedist

04-15-2013, 02:10 PM

"Uralic" or "Finno-Ugric" is a linguistic grouping, whose validity is often questioned.
It is not a cultural grouping and certainly not racial.

To answer the question, some are, some aren't, just like with Indo-Europeans.

There's a reason that there are Hungarians in Kazakhstan that call themselves Magyars and never made it to Europe.
The Madjar people are debated, the sceptists have an explanation that the name Madjar means "Good muslim" in their language (Kazakh). More work needs to be done in this area.

I think Hungarians are the most European culturally of all the Uralic speakers. And no surprise, it was right near immense European cultural centres like Vienna.
This is simplifying history ;) In the Middle Ages Buda was more important than Vienna.

And yet many consider themselves Turanids and choose to associate with Turkey and their brothers in Kazakhstan rather than their former friends in Austria and the Czech Republic. They have much more shared history with Romanians than with Turks, but Romania and Hungary hate each-other.
Former friends in Austria and Czech Republic? :laugh:

They have much more shared history with Romanians than with Turks, but Romania and Hungary hate each-other.
Now this is very much debatable, and it is nothing to do with liking them or not.

Kastrioti1443

04-15-2013, 02:10 PM

Pallantides

04-15-2013, 02:11 PM

alfieb

04-15-2013, 03:01 PM

Saami are obviously white
http://img2.custompublish.com/getfile.php/1417991.1332.acaefvaqtx/1st+Saami+Congress.jpg
What has been seen cannot be unseen.

InquiringSami.

Kastrioti1443

04-15-2013, 03:06 PM

Baluarte

04-15-2013, 03:06 PM

I hate the "white" thing Loki....
But I see Hungarians like Germano-Slavs with a Central Asian past, and Finns/Estonians as a Karelian originated people, therefore quite close to Europe.

Being Indo-European is very overrated. It'd seem Pan-Aryanism never truly died x.x...

Maltese is an Afro-Asiatic language and Basque is not Indo-European either, yet they belong perfectly to Europe.

It'd seem that Finno-Ugrians suffer the same bad propaganda linguistically, that Bosniaks and Albanians suffer religiously.
For me the answer is simple.

alfieb

04-15-2013, 03:08 PM

Maltese spoke IE languages for thousands of years. Their speaking a Semitic one is a remnant of colonialism.

That's like saying that black African countries that still speak European languages imposed on them aren't African.

Estonian, Finnish, Turkish, and Hungarian are not European languages. Those languages are key to their ethnogenesis, whereas Maltese people existed thousands of years before the Arabs arrived and eventually Siculo-Arabic and later modern Maltese language were born.

Kastrioti1443

04-15-2013, 03:10 PM

wo von träumst du nachts

lol

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-eqhQhrOT-Ck/UAAA-9E-B0I/AAAAAAAAABc/o-4yE8Ou6i4/s1600/europe-eyes-general--lig.png

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-9Q4mLyz4Bic/UNcrB8kDXEI/AAAAAAAAAY8/eBkc4ur1lTw/s1600/Light+Hair+in+Europe.png

lol you moron, are evan the nations devided now by knife in their lightening???????

real map by the one who made the masterpiece: '' Races of Europe"

http://www.summagallicana.it/lessico...r_and_Eyes.jpg

ahahahahah evan southern tosk albanians have in 45% light eyes... lol italians, spanish, fyromans, bulgarians twice the light hair of albanians, fuck me in the ass ahahahahahahahaha

a normal albanian village in northern albania ( the priest is italian) : 31795

lol what kind of maps ahahahha

albanian people in northern albania: 31796

Baluarte

04-15-2013, 03:13 PM

Szegedist

04-15-2013, 03:14 PM

alfieb

04-15-2013, 03:14 PM

They don't seem very anti-Ottoman nowadays, eh?

In what way is Indo-European "more European" than Uralic? By your logic, the only European language is Basque.

Indo-Europeans created Europe. Europe is the design of the Greeks and the Romans, and later added onto by the Germans. Uralics, in the grand scheme of things, were irrelevant. Turkics contributed far more, good and bad, than Uralics ever did.

Szegedist

04-15-2013, 03:17 PM

They don't seem very anti-Ottoman nowadays, eh?

Where are the Ottomans for us to be anti-them? They no longer pose any threat to us.

Baluarte

04-15-2013, 03:19 PM

Ever since the amazing French Revolution fucked up the whole European mindset, it's no wonder countries are drifting more and more in their political views.

Hungary has become very hostile to its neighbours, and to the Western powers (specially the UK and France) since they were targetted for total destruction and weakening. Just like Austria and Germany, the only difference is that the Hungarians never fell into the pathetic sorrowful guilty attitude the Germanians have today.

They have a lot to teach to the so called "leading European countries" that are nothing but pawns of Atlanticism and who love to kiss Israeli feet.
Even Spain has been reduced to that...such a dishonour.

Sky earth

04-15-2013, 03:24 PM

Uralic speakers are both culturally and genetically diverse just like Indo-Europeans. Samoyeds like Nganasans and Nenets are extrem "Siberian" Mongoloids while Finns or Mordovians are extrem "Northern European" Caucasoids but It seems to me that most Samoyeds are rather "Uraliczed" Paleo-Siberians while the genetically Northern European Finno-Ugrians are the closest to original Uralic people. Haplogroup N is definitely the leading Haplogroup in almost all Uralics. Oh and one thing to Khanties: I don't know why most people see them as pure Mongoloids although Khanties are genetically half Caucasoid.

Baluarte

04-15-2013, 03:25 PM

I don't see how Kurds, Iranians and Pashtun, all of them proud members of the Pan-Aryan family, belong more in Europe than Hungarians, Finns and Estonians.

I suppose I need to study more :rolleyes:

Szegedist

04-15-2013, 03:26 PM

Indo-Europeans created Europe. Europe is the design of the Greeks and the Romans, and later added onto by the Germans. Uralics, in the grand scheme of things, were irrelevant. Turkics contributed far more, good and bad, than Uralics ever did.

Did they? Or was it Celtified Basques, Aquitarians, Latinized Etruscans, etc?

Uralics, in the grand scheme of things, were irrelevant.
Who do you mean by Uralics?

alfieb

04-15-2013, 03:27 PM

I don't see how Kurds, Iranians and Pashtun, all of them proud members of the Pan-Aryan family, belong more in Europe than Hungarians, Finns and Estonians.

I suppose I need to study more :rolleyes:

Kurds and Iranians are part of our history going back to Ancient Greece. Estonians were Eastern barbarians that nobody gave a shit about until the viking era.

Szegedist

04-15-2013, 03:27 PM

alfieb

04-15-2013, 03:29 PM

Dont forget the gypsies!

Nobody considers Indians white.

Baluarte

04-15-2013, 03:36 PM

It doesn't matter when they came, what matters is that they are a valid integral part of Europe today.

The "European" civilization is simply the addition of two different things that share a broadly common past: The Byzantine Empire (and the people it influenced, namely the Eastern Orthodox) + the Carolingian Empire, and the areas it influenced (Spain enters into this category).
All the other countries were progressively influenced by any of these two.
Russians converted thanks to the influence of Constantinople, while the Norse converted due to its relations with Carolingian France and Germany.

Danes, Swedes and Norwegians weren't part of the "European" civilization until the XIth or sometimes even the XIIth century. Yet nobody will challenge their ethnic character today.

Likewise, Bactrians were Greco-Macedonians 2200 years ago. Yet, I doubt anyone in his right mind will call the people in that region of India today "European".

I don't know why people believe in this stupid Pan-Aryanist theory even today.

alfieb

04-15-2013, 03:36 PM

They're not integral at all. If the North Koreans nuked Talinn, nobody would care.

Baluarte

04-15-2013, 03:38 PM

They're not integral at all. If the North Koreans nuked Talinn, nobody would care.

Perfect argument, care to guess who'd cry if Messina was attacked with anthrax?

alfieb

04-15-2013, 03:39 PM

Drug users. Messina is a vital gateway in the European narcotics trade.

Baluarte

04-15-2013, 03:41 PM

Probably.
Just like the people that enjoy tourism would pity the loss of Tallinn. The cities and ports that were part of the Hanseatic League are very appreciated today by travellers, like myself.

Anthropologique

04-15-2013, 03:46 PM

they are whiter whiter than most other europeans espacially southern europeans who mixed with blacks and arabs. Its better to have east asian blood than wok or african.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSLHn-B6mSL4Y44nmCHJRXpJftMZ_VZ0cKxvYcERmMD4HhuqzQx

japanese look even more white than wogs

Err, a light skin tone doesn't mean you are white. LMAO. "Mixed with blacks?" lol!

You seem very ignorant about population genetics. SSA and MENA in trivial amounts is found in nearly every European population group, and most of it is exceedingly old (know what that signifies?). You should knowledgeable be about your subject matter before posting. Do some research, fella.

p.s. I've seen plenty of mixed types in Moscow... How far north is Moscow again?

Anthropologique

04-15-2013, 03:48 PM

as a russian theoretically i couldnt care less since its about uralic people but i know you also said the same thing about russians so i wanted to defend them. Russians mixed with uralic but like i said whats so bad having asian blood it? gives russians and finns their certain appeal.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xy2uwl_russian-women_creation#.UWvNZZa7bfU

You have serious insecurity issues... "better?" LOL!

its 100 times better than being 100% wog in the first place.

alfieb

04-15-2013, 03:48 PM

Don't mind RussiaRussia. That gook blood has dumbed him down. He calls us woks.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/99/Flaming_wok_by_KellyB_in_Bountiful,_Utah.jpg

Got Asian shit on the brain.

Baluarte

04-15-2013, 03:50 PM

yes, yes, just what we needed, Anthropologique talking about autosomal DNA.
Now we have the perfect apricity thread: Whining about being white, troll arguments, excessive aggression, and random charts of DNA nobody cares to read.

Here, I'll contribute with the last ingredient and post a Balkan model with big boobs:

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2495/3956247780_e5765ce1b1.jpg

And with that, I'm off this thread.

Anthropologique

04-15-2013, 03:51 PM

sevruk

04-15-2013, 04:02 PM

Haters gonna hate

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u180/Kustas/haters_zps92739d34.jpg

Thanks for the picture of Karl girlfriend

member

04-15-2013, 04:20 PM

Hungary is far more "European" (if that abusive term can be used to begin with) than Moldova, Latvia, Lithuania and I'd argue even Scandinavia.

Catholic country with Central-European family models, architecture, anti-Ottoman Medieval age and a very unexotic stereotypical phenotype.

You yourself would look exotic in a big part of Europe, it's funny that bring up exotic looks. Speaking of it, I remember reading some anthro board years back where someone wrote how suprised he was seeing average people with no supposedly mongoloid traits in our country. So much for outdated anthropology.

My country has been terra incognito for southern and western Europea for a rather long time. In late 1800s the French thought Lithuanians do not exist anymore. Lack of information again made this land somewhat terra incognito.

Grand Duchy of Lithuania is described as between the West and East. So, from western European point of view, we may not be very European. But you should always remember that Lithuania hasn't experienced anything particularly non European as f.ex. Muslim rule. On the contrary, it was the last country that adopted Christianity (in ethnic Lithuanian lands). Paganism as a native belief is some way is more European than brought religions such as Christianity. But earlier adoption of brought religion would have made us more European by your logic (which is mainstream I believe). Medieval authors used pagan Lithuanians to explain certain ancient things recorded in early times in some very Western countries. Oh, the irony.

Baluarte

04-15-2013, 04:22 PM

That's simply what I meant. Hungary is closer to the historical compound that is called "Europe" than a whole lot of other countries.
Nothing more.

Pallantides

04-15-2013, 04:27 PM

second and third are white

You must be blind, if you don't think the first one looks white.:picard1:
http://i.imgur.com/CoYfOJK.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/q9qWLaQ.jpg

Wouldn't look very foreign anywhere in Northern Europe.

Szegedist

04-15-2013, 04:36 PM

They're not integral at all. If the North Koreans nuked Talinn, nobody would care.

Cant you say the same for other countries? Would people care more if Latvia was nuked than Estonia, purely because of the languages?

Prince Carlo

04-15-2013, 04:41 PM

White or not, I would fuck an uralic chick without any doubt.

Harkonnen

04-15-2013, 05:03 PM

Uralics care some Indo-European blood, especially your Estonians and Finns. Deal with it.

FU, I hear this nonsense often and I can honestly tell you that repeating it endlessly does not make it any more true. Maybe a few bitches here and there got lucky but who cares about bitches anyway..

member

04-15-2013, 05:16 PM

FU, I hear this nonsense often and I can honestly tell you that repeating it endlessly does not make it any more true. Maybe a few bitches here and there got lucky but who cares about bitches anyway..

So, are you saying you're almost pure Uralics? I'm not saying some uber mongoloid Uralics must be the true ones, just both IE and Uralic speaking people in general have more ancestry who didn't speak these languages.

You also share ancestry with pre IE/Uralic speaking population of North-Eastern Europe with your southern neighbours Balts. This thread is ridiculous.

Sky earth

04-15-2013, 05:20 PM

Not white obviously, just look at these Türanics:
http://oi46.tinypic.com/219pbna.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/1Wqfx.jpg

Anyway I vote for "Some are, some aren't", Hungarians, Estonians, Finns and Saami are obviously white while Nganasans are not.

Uralics are quite diverse
http://i.imgur.com/MXd4c4v.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/HAG9rmF.jpg

That Nganasan can easily pass as Japanese imo. I'm surprised that there are only 900 Nganasans in Russia:mmmm:. Why are there so few Finno-Ugrians in this world? They only make 27 Million people all TOGETHER. That's lesser than the whole Uzbek population.:eusa_eh:

Szegedist

04-15-2013, 05:25 PM

That Nganasan can easily pass as Japanese imo. I'm surprised that there are only 900 Nganasans in Russia:mmmm:. Why are there so few Finno-Ugrians in this world? They only make 27 Million people all together. That's lesser than the Uzbek population.
31813

I guess this makes us Daddy Finno-Ugrics :angel

Though honestly, I don't feel any kinship to them whatsoever, maybe at best Finns and Estonians, but even that is so-so. They feel more Kinship towards Danish, Swedes, etc. And the northern Finnics (Finns, Estonians, Karelians, Livonians, Vepsians, etc) are huddled together, so the idea of some Uralic, or at least Finnic solidarity is probably more common up there.

member

04-15-2013, 05:28 PM

Uralic people originally were hunter-gatherers. Farming leads to higher population growth. The most numerous Uralic people today (Estonians, Hungarians and Finns) probably have been practising farming the most out of all Uralic people. There must be oher reasons, too.

Sky earth

04-15-2013, 05:33 PM

inactive_member

04-15-2013, 05:37 PM

You also share ancestry with pre IE/Uralic speaking population of North-Eastern Europe with your southern neighbours Balts. This thread is ridiculous.

On autosomal charts that I ever saw the highest NE European component had Lithuanians, Latvians, Belarusians and Estonian between 74%-81%. Finns do not come close.

Pallantides

04-15-2013, 05:39 PM

All autosomal charts that I ever saw the highest NE European component have Lithuanians, Latvians, Belarusians and Estonians which is between 74%-81%. Finns do not come close.

You obviously apply selective viewing...

Below are the fifteen Eurogenes samples that scored the highest percentage levels of membership in the North European cluster. The list only includes groups with five or more individuals present in the analysis, so some populations, like Estonians or Danes, weren't included, even though they easily made the cut.

Lithuanians 77%
Finns 74%
Belorussians 70%
Swedes 69%
Norwegians 68%
Vologda Russians 68%
Russians 68%
Poles 68%
Erzya 66%
Ukrainians 66%
Moksha 66%
Orcadians 63%
HapMap Utah Americans (CEU) 63%
Irish 63%
British 62%

DebtCollector

04-15-2013, 05:46 PM

http://www.billfags.com/b/src/135415558277.jpg

Szegedist

04-15-2013, 05:52 PM

Pictures of the various peoples who speak Finno-Ugric languages

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yX4XY90HiSg

inactive_member

04-15-2013, 05:53 PM

You obviously apply selective viewing...

Most work based on autosomes come from Vadim Verenich. He is running a blog and he is well known on several forums including ABF. There isn't much to choose from.

His chart (Samples with suffix _V are his academic samples)

http://cs306207.userapi.com/v306207387/265d/MLxrQNKxRgM.jpg

Source: http://verenich.wordpress.com/tag/%D0%B0%D1%83%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%BE%D0%BC%D1%8B/

I am not sure about Finns, Latvians and Estonians. Belarusians usually average around 75% and Lithuanians around 80%. If Finns have over 70% of NE Eu component and you can provide the sources from which the samples were obtained, then I would stand corrected.

Harkonnen

04-15-2013, 05:55 PM

So, are you saying you're almost pure Uralics? I'm not saying some uber mongoloid Uralics must be the true ones, just both IE and Uralic speaking people in general have more ancestry who didn't speak these languages.

You also share ancestry with pre IE/Uralic speaking population of North-Eastern Europe with your southern neighbours Balts. This thread is ridiculous.

When you throw paint to wall it makes a splash and big mess. Out of this big mess several rivers crisscrossing each other are born. To me they look like teardrops and they are in a hurry for the day is hot and it's still only morning.

Now what do you think will happen when you throw paint into a wall of water?

member

04-15-2013, 06:03 PM

When you throw paint to wall it makes a splash and big mess. Out of this big mess several rivers crisscrossing each other are born. To me they look like teardrops and they are in a hurry for the day is hot and it's still only morning.

Now what do you think will happen when you throw paint into a wall of water?

I need translator from Uralic.

inactive_member

04-15-2013, 06:10 PM

Pallantides

I found your source. Verenich split NE European and NE Mesolithic components showing Finns have high NE Mesolitic, whereas Eurogenes Genetic Ancestry project combined the two components. I still trust Vadim Verenich's works on Belarusian genetics as he is doing a lot of work on genetics of Belarusians having upto date data.

Pallantides

04-15-2013, 06:15 PM

Most work based on autosomes come from Vadim Verenich. He is running a blog and he is well known on several forums including ABF. There isn't much to choose from.

There is also:

Eurogenes Genetic Ancestry Project (http://bga101.blogspot.no/2012/04/so-whos-most-european-of-us-all.html)
Dodecad Ancestry Project (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArJDEoCgzRKedEY4Y3lTUVBaaFp0bC1zZlBDcTZEY lE&hl=en_US#gid=0)

Roy

04-15-2013, 09:11 PM

From Uralic people the furthest in the east who look white are Komi it seems.

SKYNET

04-15-2013, 09:15 PM

my choice is "Some are, some aren't".

RussiaPrussia

04-16-2013, 12:00 AM

lol you moron, are evan the nations devided now by knife in their lightening???????

real map by the one who made the masterpiece: '' Races of Europe"

http://www.summagallicana.it/lessico...r_and_Eyes.jpg

ahahahahah evan southern tosk albanians have in 45% light eyes... lol italians, spanish, fyromans, bulgarians twice the light hair of albanians, fuck me in the ass ahahahahahahahaha

a normal albanian village in northern albania ( the priest is italian) : 31795

lol what kind of maps ahahahha

albanian people in northern albania: 31796

lol sure you just pick the whitest looking albos

you have nothing to east asians
http://www.hdtabletwallpapers.com/var/albums/Sweet%20Japanese%20girl%20Aika%20Mitsui%20iPad%20w allpapers%201024x1024/Sweet%20Japanese%20girl%20Aika%20Mitsui%20iPad%20w allpapers%201024x1024%20(21).jpg?m=1350967003

Wild North

04-16-2013, 03:22 AM

ButlerKing

04-16-2013, 04:00 AM

The Proto-Uralics were possibly white. Aside from the traditional theory of origin in the Urals, there´s another claiming that Uralics are in fact a very ancient populaton of Europe, for not a few but many thousands of years. But that´s just a theory.

Sorry, they weren't. Because Finns DNA is really no different to other north Europeans.

The closest analogy to the skull early Finno-Ugric peoples are found in the burial Fofanova in the Baikal region (6th millennium BC)
http://i50.tinypic.com/2w40mm9.jpg

( Russian translation to English)

FACE OF ANTHROPOLOGY

There has been an act of invasion of the Finno-Ugric peoples of Eastern origin in the territory inhabited by Caucasians. Dnieper-Donets culture has developed Caucasians, after which it mingled with the Finno-Ugric tribes. This is confirmed by the data from the repository and Yasinovatka, which (like the Vasiljevka II) is the most ancient among the other cemeteries of the Dnieper-Donets culture. Moreover, it contains the burial of non-simultaneity and divide the period of 500 years (between A and B).

Since culture comb-ceramic spread anthropological type, bearing the features of a "relaxed Mongoloid." In the anthropological literature, it is named laponoidnogo. From the point of view of anthropologists, "there is every reason to believe that the origin of anthropological traits media cultures comb-ceramics associated with the eastern parts of Russia." In particular, male and female skulls from graves 19 and 20 (Sahtysh II), belonging to the comb-culture and dating con. 4th - early. 3rd millennium BC. e. have pronounced Mongoloid appearance - "brain structure of the skull, face and horizontal profile morphology of the nose in two sahtyshskih skulls undoubtedly confirm their membership of the Mongoloid race.

d3cimat3d

04-16-2013, 04:03 AM

Not only are western Uralics white, they are the whitest of them all.

http://i45.tinypic.com/2wbrvqo.png

^Karelians (KR) are one of the closest living people to Mesolithic Europeans (HG, PWC, KUR-BA, ALT-AL).

....................Wait, nevermind.

Lithuanians 77%
Finns 74%
Belorussians 70%
Swedes 69%
Norwegians 68%
Vologda Russians 68%
Russians 68%
Poles 68%
Erzya 66%
Ukrainians 66%
Moksha 66%
Orcadians 63%
HapMap Utah Americans (CEU) 63%
Irish 63%
British 62%

ButlerKing

04-16-2013, 04:19 AM

Finns are 90% European less than 3% Uralic. I mean since autosomal DNA shows Uralic DNA for Finns is so low how can they be what proto-Uralic looked like?

http://i46.tinypic.com/d61ad.jpg

Also the oldest Finnic tribe did not belong to Caucasoid or white.

The closest analogy to the skull early Finno-Ugric peoples are found in the burial Fofanova in the Baikal region (6th millennium BC)
http://i50.tinypic.com/2w40mm9.jpg

( Russian translation to English)

FACE OF ANTHROPOLOGY

There has been an act of invasion of the Finno-Ugric peoples of Eastern origin in the territory inhabited by Caucasians. Dnieper-Donets culture has developed Caucasians, after which it mingled with the Finno-Ugric tribes. This is confirmed by the data from the repository and Yasinovatka, which (like the Vasiljevka II) is the most ancient among the other cemeteries of the Dnieper-Donets culture. Moreover, it contains the burial of non-simultaneity and divide the period of 500 years (between A and B).

Since culture comb-ceramic spread anthropological type, bearing the features of a "relaxed Mongoloid." In the anthropological literature, it is named laponoidnogo. From the point of view of anthropologists, "there is every reason to believe that the origin of anthropological traits media cultures comb-ceramics associated with the eastern parts of Russia." In particular, male and female skulls from graves 19 and 20 (Sahtysh II), belonging to the comb-culture and dating con. 4th - early. 3rd millennium BC. e. have pronounced Mongoloid appearance - "brain structure of the skull, face and horizontal profile morphology of the nose in two sahtyshskih skulls undoubtedly confirm their membership of the Mongoloid race.

ButlerKing

04-16-2013, 04:24 AM

I mean even the Ural themselves are 46% Ural but 54% European.

How can anyway than say Uralic people were white?

http://www.hs.fi/kuvat/iso_webkuva/1076153676877.jpeg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4d/Khanty_women_in_Man_Uskve.jpg
http://mrted57.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/port-komi-girls.jpg

alfieb

04-16-2013, 04:25 AM

ButlerKing

04-16-2013, 04:29 AM

More than half of Finns are Y-HG N. Originates in China or Mongolia. The only whites who were ever in that region were Scythians. Scythians were IE, not Finnic. They're just trying to whitewash their history. :bored:

And finns have 6% Mongoloid admixture and sami have 8-16% and it only takes 5 generations to dilute the admixture to 3.15%.

One Generation 50%
Two Generation 25%
Three Generation 12.5%
Four Generation 6.25%
Five Generation 3.15%

Uralic were properly like modern Siberian mongoloid but mixed the time they arrive the western Urals. Here are reconstruction of Uralics in Ural, you can tell the ones on the right look more Mongoloid.
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff277/aiwn/uralics.jpg

Harkonnen

04-16-2013, 07:18 AM

Sorry, they weren't. Because Finns DNA is really no different to other north Europeans.

The closest analogy to the skull early Finno-Ugric peoples are found in the burial Fofanova in the Baikal region (6th millennium BC)
http://i50.tinypic.com/2w40mm9.jpg

( Russian translation to English)

FACE OF ANTHROPOLOGY

There has been an act of invasion of the Finno-Ugric peoples of Eastern origin in the territory inhabited by Caucasians. Dnieper-Donets culture has developed Caucasians, after which it mingled with the Finno-Ugric tribes. This is confirmed by the data from the repository and Yasinovatka, which (like the Vasiljevka II) is the most ancient among the other cemeteries of the Dnieper-Donets culture. Moreover, it contains the burial of non-simultaneity and divide the period of 500 years (between A and B).

Since culture comb-ceramic spread anthropological type, bearing the features of a "relaxed Mongoloid." In the anthropological literature, it is named laponoidnogo. From the point of view of anthropologists, "there is every reason to believe that the origin of anthropological traits media cultures comb-ceramics associated with the eastern parts of Russia." In particular, male and female skulls from graves 19 and 20 (Sahtysh II), belonging to the comb-culture and dating con. 4th - early. 3rd millennium BC. e. have pronounced Mongoloid appearance - "brain structure of the skull, face and horizontal profile morphology of the nose in two sahtyshskih skulls undoubtedly confirm their membership of the Mongoloid race.

Right. 10000 years old skull from lake Baikal. The consensus right here right now seems to be that Uralic languages did not exist 6000BC, but seem to be somewhat later phenomena. Also the consensus seems to see it fit to place the proto Uralic homeland somewhere in the Volga Kama region. So I fail to see what this skull has to do with Finno-Ugricness, but hey at least you are not anymore trying to claim that this skull is from Finland so I think you are making progress.

alfieb

04-16-2013, 07:22 AM

Uh, 10,000 year old skull? 6000 BC = 8,000 years ago.

And...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Uralic_language

Proto-Uralic is the reconstructed language ancestral to the Uralic language family. The language was originally spoken in a small area in about 7000-2000 BC (estimates vary), and expanded to give differentiated protolanguages. The exact location of the area or Urheimat is not known, and various strongly differing proposals have been advocated, but the vicinity of the Ural Mountains is usually assumed.

Harkonnen

04-16-2013, 07:25 AM

Yeah alfie right exactly. Give me a call when you have a point or need to disagree.

sevruk

04-16-2013, 07:27 AM

http://i50.tinypic.com/2w40mm9.jpg

grandmother of Karl

alfieb

04-16-2013, 07:27 AM

That your post was worthless because you failed to provide any logical explanation as to why his claim was wrong. That may very well be how a Uralic person from 6000 BC looked.

Harkonnen

04-16-2013, 07:36 AM

Alfie I'm right, you're wrong. I'm right because I have higher IQ and I got the science to back me up. Lynn & Vanhanen, fuck those are some smart blokes. Don't be a antiintellectual, respect science!

Now go suck a lollipop and dream of white men, women or maybe both. Whatever rocks your boat.

alfieb

04-16-2013, 07:38 AM

:rolleyes:

Tatu Vanhanen can eat a dick.

I went to one of the 10 best universities in the world. Where did you attend school?

www.usnews.com/education/worlds-best-universities-rankings/top-400-universities-in-the-world

d3cimat3d

04-16-2013, 07:45 AM

Uh, 10,000 year old skull? 6000 BC = 8,000 years ago.

Not only that, Lake Baikal is way to far to be the Uralic homeland. It is more associated with the Proto-Turks than anything. Komi's are the best example of the "original Uralics" IMO.

grandmother of Karl

hahahaahhaha

Alfie I'm right, you're wrong.

Suomi on paska (look at me mom! I'm speaking finnish!!)

alfieb

04-16-2013, 07:47 AM

Not only that, Lake Baikal is way to far to be the Uralic homeland. It is more associated with the Proto-Turks than anything.
Uraltaic language theory. :thumb001:

Harkonnen

04-16-2013, 07:50 AM

I'm sorry alfie :( as far as I know Mr Vanhanen is all straight baby

http://www.aamulehti.fi/cs/Satellite?blobcol=urldata&blobkey=id&blobtable=MungoBlobs&blobwhere=1196161996035&ssbinary=true

Tough luck alfie.

I went to school in Finland. Best damn schools in the whole world. Don't make me cum and school U2 alfie. I gotta hardon for schooling dummies. It's in the genes.

alfieb

04-16-2013, 07:53 AM

:lol: he's a mixed-race gook and so are you.

Keep your hardon to yourself. I'm not a Siberian girl, and this isn't ABF where you have a dozen thugs to protect you.

evon

04-16-2013, 09:17 AM

"Uralic" or "Finno-Ugric" is a linguistic grouping, whose validity is often questioned.
It is not a cultural grouping and certainly not racial.

This is the main problem on here, you have the Nordicists whom cling onto a notion of Germanic biological unity, and Turanids clinging onto a notion of Turkic biological unity, and various other groups whom make the link between linguistic groups and DNA..its such an outdated idea that have no basis in biology, but regardless of how often this is pointed out and proven these people will talk the same nonsense, as they are not in it for a debate, but for a monologue with themselves..

You must be blind, if you don't think the first one looks white.:picard1:
http://i.imgur.com/CoYfOJK.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/q9qWLaQ.jpg

Wouldn't look very foreign anywhere in Northern Europe.

I hate the term White, its such a simplified term, but most of the peoples whom speak Uralic languages belong to the Eastern European genepool, and are just as European looking as most Russians, and they are European by any standards, Udmurts as an example have a very high % of red hair:

The Udmurts are the most red-haired Finno-Ugric people, the most red-haired nation in Russia, and as far as the rest of the world is concerned, they are inferior only to the Irish in this respect.

The so-called ‘Red Festival’, which gathers a lot of people, takes place annually in the capital of Udmurtia, Izhevsk. There organized such contests and competitions as ‘Mother, Father and I are a Red Family’ (the most red-haired family contest), ‘Mischievous Gingers’ (the most red-haired child contest), as well as ‘red’ pet contests for cats, dogs, hamsters, squirrels, goldfish, and a beauty contest ‘Goldilocks’. The Festival is held at the beginning of September, enriched with marvelous autumn tints. ‘Red’ music is heard everywhere, ‘red’ fruit from the gardens and fields are far and near. ‘Red’ VIP club gathers the most eminent red-haired people - scientists, journalists, writers, actors. The children of ‘Shundy-Mumy’ (Mother of Sun) – the Udmurts- being asked if they are gingers, proudly answer ‘Yes!’. The motto of the Festival “Gingers of the world, unite!” appeal to the unity of all the Finno-Ugric people, who are notable for their red hair. The Festival has already reached Republic and interregional scale, and it may become the brand of the Finno-Ugric world!

http://finugor.ru/en/node/15829

Lemon Kush

04-16-2013, 09:18 AM

No. Southern Euro wogs are whiter. Facial features are more important than pigmentation. A typical southern European face is less foreign looking to me than a semi mongoloid Uralic one.

Talvi

04-16-2013, 09:20 AM

http://blog.naturanetti.fi/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/FinnishFood.jpg
Finns

Not only are your people ugly and boring, but your food is too.

These buns (and black bread) are delicious!

evon

04-16-2013, 09:22 AM

Keep it On topic guys, dont make me delete any more drama posts please!

Wild North

04-16-2013, 03:55 PM

Sorry, they weren't. Because Finns DNA is really no different to other north Europeans.

The closest analogy to the skull early Finno-Ugric peoples are found in the burial Fofanova in the Baikal region (6th millennium BC)
http://i50.tinypic.com/2w40mm9.jpg

( Russian translation to English)

FACE OF ANTHROPOLOGY

There has been an act of invasion of the Finno-Ugric peoples of Eastern origin in the territory inhabited by Caucasians. Dnieper-Donets culture has developed Caucasians, after which it mingled with the Finno-Ugric tribes. This is confirmed by the data from the repository and Yasinovatka, which (like the Vasiljevka II) is the most ancient among the other cemeteries of the Dnieper-Donets culture. Moreover, it contains the burial of non-simultaneity and divide the period of 500 years (between A and B).

Since culture comb-ceramic spread anthropological type, bearing the features of a "relaxed Mongoloid." In the anthropological literature, it is named laponoidnogo. From the point of view of anthropologists, "there is every reason to believe that the origin of anthropological traits media cultures comb-ceramics associated with the eastern parts of Russia." In particular, male and female skulls from graves 19 and 20 (Sahtysh II), belonging to the comb-culture and dating con. 4th - early. 3rd millennium BC. e. have pronounced Mongoloid appearance - "brain structure of the skull, face and horizontal profile morphology of the nose in two sahtyshskih skulls undoubtedly confirm their membership of the Mongoloid race.

Well, what I said, is according to the theories of Kalevi Wiik. Yes his views are highly controversial. He´s talking about a "Germanic substrate hypothesis".. However I´m also open to different interpretations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalevi_Wiik

Are you a supporter of the traditional view?

Loki

04-16-2013, 04:11 PM

I'm interested in hearing Karl's views.

Accountant

04-16-2013, 04:32 PM

Uralic people range from this:

http://img.yle.fi/urheilu/arkisto/article5040595.ece/ALTERNATES/w580/minna+nikkanen

to this:

http://www.barentsindigenous.org/getfile.php/915157.1332.auusddqwpc/800x650/Nenets%20women%20front.jpg?no=14

And Indo-Europeans range from this:

http://cdn.sparkart.net/ultrarecords/content/photos/1334266244.55134.basshunter_730x540.jpg

to this:

http://global.finland.fi/public/download.aspx?ID=49520&GUID={6200EB0D-C9D4-40AE-94BF-87B26456EC9D}

Some might learn a thing or two here.

sevruk

04-16-2013, 04:33 PM

I'm interested in hearing Karl's views.

Karl believes that Estonians lived in northern Europe even before glacial retreat

Loki

04-16-2013, 04:34 PM

Karl believes that Estonians lived in northern Europe even before glacial retreat

lol that's hugely speculative :p

Pallantides

04-16-2013, 04:42 PM

Karl believes that Estonians lived in northern Europe even before glacial retreat

No, only Breiviks ancestors lived here then:P

Szegedist

04-16-2013, 04:55 PM

Pallantides

04-16-2013, 05:01 PM

I don't know how it is for other Indo-European speaking Europeans, but I feel closer to a Finn than I do a Bengali.:P

DebtCollector

04-16-2013, 05:34 PM

Even these guys are whiter than alfieb, lmfao

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_pCZ8OjB5xO4/SwmAzac5JiI/AAAAAAAABHA/yjiQ_d3sZ-k/s1600/Picture+5.png

Loki

04-16-2013, 05:36 PM

Even these guys are whiter than alfieb, lmfao

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_pCZ8OjB5xO4/SwmAzac5JiI/AAAAAAAABHA/yjiQ_d3sZ-k/s1600/Picture+5.png

OMG that's Homo erectus :eek:

sevruk

04-16-2013, 05:49 PM

Even these guys are whiter than alfieb, lmfao

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_pCZ8OjB5xO4/SwmAzac5JiI/AAAAAAAABHA/yjiQ_d3sZ-k/s1600/Picture+5.png

and thanks again for placing images Karl cousins

member

04-16-2013, 05:54 PM

80% of Finno-Ugric speakers are Hungarians+Finns+Estonians. Even if you ignore other white Finno-Ugric speakers, the vast majority of Finno-Ugric speakers are white and in Europe.

Indo-Europeans , the biggest branch is Indo-Iranian, which are neither White nor in Europe. :ranger:

/thread
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fb/IE_countries.svg

You should mention "some" other people too.

Onbiously Indo-European is harrdly comparable to any other language group in the world... It's incredibly widespread!

Being Indo-European is so boring.

Loki

04-16-2013, 05:57 PM

Even these guys are whiter than alfieb, lmfao

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_pCZ8OjB5xO4/SwmAzac5JiI/AAAAAAAABHA/yjiQ_d3sZ-k/s1600/Picture+5.png

^ I would feel closer to Iranians and Pakistanis than to those people. Pigmentation is not everything.

Loki

04-16-2013, 05:58 PM

Indo-Europeans , the biggest branch is Indo-Iranian, which are neither White nor in Europe. :ranger:

All Indo-Europeans are Caucasoid.

Szegedist

04-16-2013, 05:58 PM

^^ Who even are they lol? @ "Karls cousins"

Szegedist

04-16-2013, 06:00 PM

All Indo-Europeans are Caucasoid.

Not really, English for example is spoken as a native language for many Negroids too.

member

04-16-2013, 06:00 PM

Indo-Europeans, we should be nice to our Uralic cousins. There are so few of them!

Loki

04-16-2013, 06:02 PM

Not really, English for example is spoken as a native language for many Negroids too.

That's not what I mean.

Pallantides

04-16-2013, 06:03 PM

Indo-European:
http://i.imgur.com/Y4C85pt.jpg

Sky earth

04-16-2013, 06:06 PM

Indo-European:
http://i.imgur.com/Y4C85pt.jpg

That's a Tajik women:)

Szegedist

04-16-2013, 06:07 PM

That's not what I mean.

Modern day Indians are a mixture of ancient Aryans and Indified Dravidians (who are closer to Austrolasians than anything else), then you have metzitoes, many South Americans, negroid admixes here and there, these are all classed as Indo-Europeans.

If you said original Indo-Europeans, then maybe, but not today ;)

Loki

04-16-2013, 06:08 PM

Modern day Indians are a mixture of ancient Aryans and Indified Dravidians (who are closer to Austrolasians than anything else), then you have metzitoes, many South Americans, negroid admixes here and there, these are all classed as Indo-Europeans.

If you said original Indo-Europeans, then maybe, but not today ;)

I mean the original IE branches.

Pallantides

04-16-2013, 06:09 PM

That's a Tajik women:)

Yes and they are considered an Iranic people.

Sky earth

04-16-2013, 06:09 PM

All Indo-Europeans are Caucasoid.

Hazaras speak an Iranic language and many of them can pass as Mongols

evon

04-16-2013, 06:13 PM

Harkonnen

04-16-2013, 06:22 PM

Even these guys are whiter than alfieb, lmfao

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_pCZ8OjB5xO4/SwmAzac5JiI/AAAAAAAABHA/yjiQ_d3sZ-k/s1600/Picture+5.png

Good god these are some rugged looking hunks. What are they eating, looks like its raw.

inactive_member

04-16-2013, 06:26 PM

Hazaras speak an Iranic language and many of them can pass as Mongols

They are not autochthonous to Afghanistan. They switched the language after settling in Afghanistan. An analogous example will be autochthonous people of both Americas speaking English and Spanish.

Harkonnen

04-16-2013, 06:29 PM

Here is neander dude way back 56 000 years ago

http://i47.tinypic.com/avimbc.jpg

Striking resemblance.

Harkonnen

04-16-2013, 06:34 PM

He is the Old man of La Chapelle.

Szegedist

04-16-2013, 06:34 PM

Even these guys are whiter than alfieb, lmfao

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_pCZ8OjB5xO4/SwmAzac5JiI/AAAAAAAABHA/yjiQ_d3sZ-k/s1600/Picture+5.png

What ethnic group is that? Looks like Eskimos or Aleuts.

Pallantides

04-16-2013, 06:35 PM

What ethnic group is that? Looks like Eskimos or Aleuts.

Nganasan

Peikko

04-16-2013, 06:37 PM

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fb/IE_countries.svg

You should mention "some" other people too.

Onbiously Indo-European is harrdly comparable to any other language group in the world... It's incredibly widespread!

Being Indo-European is so boring.

Actually Balts are very much Finno-Ugrians genetically. For example:

The Y-chromosomal data has also revealed a common Finno-Ugric ancestry for the males of the neighboring Baltic peoples, speakers of the Indo-European Baltic languages. According to the studies, Baltic males are most closely related to the Finno-Ugric-speaking Volga Finns such as the Mari, rather than to Baltic Finns. The indicator of Finno-Ugric origin has been found to be more frequent in Latvians (42%) and Lithuanians (43%) than in Estonians (34%). The results suggest that the territories of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania have been settled by Finno-Ugric-speaking tribes since the early Mesolithic period.

Sky earth

04-16-2013, 06:37 PM

Yes and they are considered an Iranic people.

Tajks are mixed with Turkics and Mongols but mainly from the maternal side. They reach up to 15 percent Mongoloid admixture in aDNA. Their Mongoloid admixture is the same as Turkmens on average

Here are aDNA results from 15 Tajiks

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArAJcY18g2GadExjVnpKbHFEeGVZOEZPOXBxWnA2W nc#gid=0

Loki

04-16-2013, 06:37 PM

Dye their hairs and they could pass unnoticed in Helsinki :)

Szegedist

04-16-2013, 06:39 PM

Nganasan

The Nganasan are considered by most ethnographers who study them to have arisen as an ethnic group when Samoyedic peoples migrated to the Taymyr Peninsula from the south, encountering Paleo-Siberian peoples living there who they then assimilated into their culture. One group of Samoyedic people intermarried with Paleo-Siberian peoples living between the Taz and Yenisei rivers, forming a group that the Soviet ethnographer B. O. Dolgikh refers to as the Samoyed-Ravens. Another group intermarried with the Paleo-Siberian inhabitants of the Pyasina River and formed another group which he called the Samoyed-Eagles. Subsequently, a group of Tungusic people migrated to the region near Lake Pyasino and the Avam River, where they were absorbed into Samoyed culture, forming a new group called the Tidiris. There was another group of Tungusic peoples called the Tavgs who lived along the basins of the Khatanga and Anabar rivers and came into contact with the aforementioned Samoyedic peoples, absorbing their language and creating their own Tavg Savoyedic dialect.[12] It is known that the ancestors of the Nganasan previously inhabited territory further south from a book in the city Mangazeya that lists yasak (fur tribute) payments by the Nganasan which were made in sable, an animal that does not inhabit the tundra where the Nganasan now live.

By the middle of the 17th century, Tungusic peoples began to push the Samoyedic peoples northward towards the tundra Taymyr Peninsula, where they merged into one tribe called “Avam Nganasans.” As the Tavgs were the largest Samoyedic group at the time of this merger, their dialect formed the basis of the present-day Nganasan language. In the late 19th century, a group of Tungusic people called the Vanyadyrs also moved to the Eastern Taymyr peninsula where they were absorbed by the Avam Nganasans, resulting in the tribe that is now called Vadeyev Nganasans. In the 19th century, a member of the Dolgans, a Turkic people who lived east of the Nganasans, was also absorbed by the Nganasans, and his descendants formed an eponymous clan, which today, though linguistically fully Samoyedic, is still acknowledged as being Dolgan in origin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nganasan_people

In other words they were Uralics who mixed with Paleo-Siberian Mongoloid tribes, so definitively not what I would call "typical Finno-Ugor".

Sky earth

04-16-2013, 06:41 PM

Nganasan

Nganasans must be the most genetically Siberian people in this world. They reach 90 percent Siberian DNA in Autosomal DNA

Pallantides

04-16-2013, 06:45 PM

Indo-European male
http://i.imgur.com/qQcyxyn.jpg

Uralic male
http://i.imgur.com/IuQ3gpT.jpg

The Indo-European might be more gracious and dexterous, but the more robust Uralic have raw strength.:D

Sky earth

04-16-2013, 06:46 PM

They are not autochthonous to Afghanistan. They switched the language after settling in Afghanistan. An analogous example will be autochthonous people of both Americas speaking English and Spanish.

Actually Hazaras are genetically half Caucasoid/Iranic. It's strange that they are seen as pure Mongols in Anthro Forums who only switched the language

Loki

04-16-2013, 06:47 PM

Nganasans must be the most genetically Siberian people in this world. They reach 90 percent Siberian DNA in Autosomal DNA

So that's probably what Siberianism looks like :) Some of the ancestors of Finns probably looked like that.

Szegedist

04-16-2013, 06:50 PM

Anyway, since Hungarians make up the majority (more than half) of Finno-Ugric speakers, you could say Hungarians are the most typical Finno-Ugric speakers, while the others are a minority.

Harkonnen

04-16-2013, 06:51 PM

Actually Balts are very much Finno-Ugrians genetically. For example:

That text you posted is quite outdated. So nope, not really.

Szegedist

04-16-2013, 06:52 PM

So that's probably what Siberianism looks like :) Some of the ancestors of Finns probably looked like that.

Siberians =/= Finno-Ugric people. Majority of Finno-Ugrics are in fact Caucasoid, including the ones that didn't mix a lot (Finns for example), those Nganasans are mostly assimilated and Samoyedified Tungustic people, etc.

Peikko

04-16-2013, 06:52 PM

That text you posted is quite outdated. So nope, not really.

Do you have more recent sources?

Loki

04-16-2013, 06:53 PM

Siberians =/= Finno-Ugric people. Majority of Finno-Ugrics are in fact Caucasoid, including the ones that didn't mix a lot (Finns for example), those Nganasans are mostly assimilated and Samoyedified Tungustic people, etc.

I know, but Finns have a significant amount of Siberian genes. I think around 10% or something?

Pallantides

04-16-2013, 06:53 PM

I know, but Finns have a significant amount of Siberian genes. I think around 10% or something?

More like 5-7% I think.

*edit*

On Dodecad K12b, the average Siberian is 6.7% in Finnish_D(N=14) and 7.2% in FIN30(N=24)

Harkonnen

04-16-2013, 06:54 PM

Do you have more recent sources?

I can't be bothered. I'm sure one of the balt ladies will storm here soon enough to educate you in this matter.

Sky earth

04-16-2013, 06:54 PM

So that's probably what Siberianism looks like :) Some of the ancestors of Finns probably looked like that.

I think that Samoyeds like the Nganasans are mainly Paleo-Siberians who experienced a language shift by Uralic people. The Proto Uralics were probably genetically Northern Europeans and closer to Finns or Mordovians but that's only my opinion

Peikko

04-16-2013, 06:58 PM

I know, but Finns have a significant amount of Siberian genes. I think around 10% or something?

That's what makes us Finns ;)

Loki

04-16-2013, 06:58 PM

Pallantides

04-16-2013, 07:00 PM

Uralics are bad boys
http://i.imgur.com/RqP7dWu.jpg

Szegedist

04-16-2013, 07:02 PM

There are about 1000 Nganasan, so they represent 0.0038% of Finno Ugric speakers.

Dont forget they live under extreme conditions, with a limited diet who mixed with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tungusic_peoples, all of which contributes to their looks. So to try to pass them off as the most Uralic Uralics is ridiculous.

Pallantides

04-16-2013, 07:04 PM

They remind me of Saami.

Genetically they are not all that similar though:P
http://i.imgur.com/5unhw46.png

Sky earth

04-16-2013, 07:10 PM

The Nganasans are interesting. They remind me of Saami.

http://www.speech.nw.ru/Nenets/Images/al-s.jpg

http://www.base-juniper.org/?q=system/files/images/photonganassane.preview.jpg

http://www.bionet.nsc.ru/labs/mtgenome/album/images/1ips02-Nganasan.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Ish7688voT0/TNYwfThz81I/AAAAAAAAC10/Jaq1P436tSQ/s1600/1ips07-Nganasan.jpg

They are also culturally very close to Khanties an Ugric people

http://biathlon.xc-ski.de/xfiles_a6/1299005968_1.jpg
http://kazym.ethnic-tour.ru/kazym/images/moldan.jpg

I believe that Proto-Uralics were culturally reindeer breeders.

Harkonnen

04-16-2013, 07:12 PM

Uralics are bad boys
http://i.imgur.com/RqP7dWu.jpg

Uralics are gentlemen winkwink

Harkonnen

04-16-2013, 07:25 PM

They are also culturally very close to Khanties an Ugric people

http://biathlon.xc-ski.de/xfiles_a6/129005968_1.jpg
http://kazym.ethnic-tour.ru/kazym//moldan.jpg

I believe that Proto-Uralics were culturally reindeer breeders.

No they most likely were not reindeer herders. Even the words for reindeers are all loanwords. I think in Saami it is fex Indoeuropean loanword.

Pallantides

04-16-2013, 07:27 PM

Also the Saami domesticated the reindeer fairly late.
In older times they lived mostly of fishing and hunting.

Sky earth

04-16-2013, 07:35 PM

No they most likely were not reindeer herders. Even the words for reindeers are all loanwords. I think in Saami it is fex Indoeuropean loanword.

Well, that's only my theory but they could be also Hunter gatherers or fisher tribes. Maybe they were a cultural mix of all three

Roy

04-16-2013, 07:40 PM

So that's probably what Siberianism looks like :) Some of the ancestors of Finns probably looked like that.

But one have to keep in mind that we do not know the genetic composition of Siberian peoples of the past so there's there's no actual point of comparison. The same rule should applie to the rest of these in part subjective components used in these kind of tests though to be used as valid arguments while they're substantially flawed. We can only speculate but making some random isolated group as an example of purity or as a place from which came given element (here Uralic or even Siberian) can be misleading if you take into the account the existence of founder effects/bottleneck which often affect small groups.

evon

04-16-2013, 08:12 PM

Also the Saami domesticated the reindeer fairly late.
In older times they lived mostly of fishing and hunting.

Saami got the tradition from peoples coming in via Finland late in history, likely Siberian peoples whom came in small numbers, could be the source for Z1a and such lineages found in Saami? This is clearly visible in the difference between Southern based Saami and Northern based...

ButlerKing

04-16-2013, 08:37 PM

Mari people are White? NO.

http://mari-el.name/images/IMG_6238.jpg
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x251/zemelmete/Mariesi/XKKmDdsu_FE_zps3492a635.jpg
http://englishrussia.com/images/photos/111552.jpg.jpg

Sky earth

04-16-2013, 08:38 PM

More than half of Finns are Y-HG N. Originates in China or Mongolia. The only whites who were ever in that region were Scythians. Scythians were IE, not Finnic. They're just trying to whitewash their history. :bored:

Finns are definitely genetically more European than you Sicilians that's for sure:icon_yes:. Haplogroups have nothing to do with phenotypes. It's Autosomal DNA that counts.

evon

04-16-2013, 08:40 PM

Its not necessary to create a separate thread for this, i will merged it with the Uralic main thread..

Pallantides

04-16-2013, 08:42 PM

Finns are definitely genetically more European than you Sicilians that's for sure:icon_yes:. Haplogroups have nothing to do with phenotypes. It's Autosomal DNA that counts.

Alfieb is just falling back into his old Finn-trolling habit.

evon

04-16-2013, 08:44 PM

/Threads merged!

ButlerKing

04-16-2013, 08:45 PM

/Threads merged!

Threads merged and my data on Uralic face reconstruction and genetics dissapeared with it aswell.

I can't find it anywhere.

Peikko

04-16-2013, 08:46 PM

And finns have 6% Mongoloid admixture and sami have 8-16% and it only takes 5 generations to dilute the admixture to 3.15%.

Finland is genetically the most isolated country in Europe, so how do you suggest, that they "diluted" the admixture?

Indo-European haplogroups in Finland: R1a (7.5%) and R1b (3.5%). That's only 11%!

Non-Indo-European haplos: N1c (58%), I (29%).

But to the original topic: Of course Finno-Ugrics have Mongoloid-mix.

evon

04-16-2013, 08:48 PM

Threads merged and my data on Uralic face reconstruction and genetics dissapeared with it aswell.

I can't find it anywhere.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?76049-Are-Uralic-people-white&p=1513970&viewfull=1#post1513970

Post found, now please keep all the Anthropological stuff in this thread, no need to have 100's of threads on the same subject...

ButlerKing

04-16-2013, 08:50 PM

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?76049-Are-Uralic-people-white&p=1513970&viewfull=1#post1513970

Post found, now please keep all the Anthropological stuff in this thread, no need to have 100's of threads on the same subject...

But why sandwiched it all the way to page 11. That's like having 90% of the members here not being able read what I posted since most who went through to thread would have read it already?

Harkonnen

04-16-2013, 08:51 PM

Threads merged and my data on Uralic face reconstruction and genetics dissapeared with it aswell.

I can't find it anywhere.

Yes exactly. YOUR DATA. It is nice that you at least admit that you just make this shit up.

http://i46.tinypic.com/d61ad.jpg

Wtf is this 'Scythian' supposed to represent in this chart you made up ie pulled out your arse?

Anthropologique

04-16-2013, 08:55 PM

They are also culturally very close to Khanties an Ugric people

http://biathlon.xc-ski.de/xfiles_a6/1299005968_1.jpg
http://kazym.ethnic-tour.ru/kazym/images/moldan.jpg

I believe that Proto-Uralics were culturally reindeer breeders.

Very Japanese looking.

Harkonnen

04-16-2013, 08:57 PM

lol on your chart 'Finnic' has less 'Urals' than Norse, Germanic, Polish, Balkan and Greek.

ButlerKing

04-16-2013, 08:59 PM

Yes exactly. YOUR DATA. It is nice that you at least admit that you just make this shit up.

http://i46.tinypic.com/d61ad.jpg

Wtf is this 'Scythian' supposed to represent in this chart you made up ie pulled out your arse?

I made this up? Scythian physical features exist in small percentages of Europeans. Ancient Scythians had mostly Scythian Iranic faces with some that looked Ural, Thracian, Russian, Finnic and other European tribes in small percentages.

http://www.sikharchives.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/scythians_map.jpg

ButlerKing

04-16-2013, 09:01 PM

lol on your chart 'Finnic' has less 'Urals' than Norse, Germanic, Polish, Balkan and Greek.

I DON'T THINK YOU UNDERSTAND.

This map is suppose to represent the physical appearance of each European as you can see most Europeans have a mixture of many physical type. The most common type of look in Finnic is obviously the Finnic look.

Only 3% lest or more Finns looked like Urals.

Anthropologique

04-16-2013, 09:01 PM

Harkonnen

04-16-2013, 09:01 PM

So did you test Scythian autosomal dna in your home laboratory? You did, didn't you. I salute you brother, well done!

Peikko

04-16-2013, 09:02 PM

The data was definately made up by ButlerKing.

ButlerKing

04-16-2013, 09:04 PM

Finland is genetically the most isolated country in Europe, so how do you suggest, that they "diluted" the admixture?

Indo-European haplogroups in Finland: R1a (7.5%) and R1b (3.5%). That's only 11%!

Non-Indo-European haplos: N1c (58%), I (29%).

But to the original topic: Of course Finno-Ugrics have Mongoloid-mix.

It was Uralic people who contributed their DNA to North Europeans and created your Finnic race type.

Harkonnen

04-16-2013, 09:06 PM

I DON'T THINK YOU UNDERSTAND.

This map is suppose to represent the physical appearance of each European as you can see most Europeans have a mixture of many physical type. The most common type of look in Finnic is obviously the Finnic look.

Only 3% lest or more Finns looked like Urals.

Ok this is even better. Well done sir.

ButlerKing

04-16-2013, 09:06 PM

Who actually produced this?

I got my source from here.

http://forum.slavorum.com/index.php?topic=2907.0

Peikko

04-16-2013, 09:07 PM

It was Uralic people who contributed their DNA to North Europeans and created your Finnic race type.
So the majority of Uralic-people mixed with a small minority of white people and changed to white all of a sudden? :picard1:

Peikko

04-16-2013, 09:08 PM

No fucking way ButlerKing is British!

Harkonnen

04-16-2013, 09:11 PM

I got my source from here.

http://forum.slavorum.com/index.php?topic=2907.0

Dude it says on your link it's based on autosomal crap. On previous post you said it was based on eyeball antropology crap. Which one was it, the truth?

ButlerKing

04-16-2013, 09:13 PM

So the majority of Uralic-people mixed with a small minority of white people and changed to white all of a sudden? :picard1:

You see..... this is exactly why it was a bad idea to merge threads because I need to explain the facts again.

LET ME TELL YOU.

Original Uralic tribe were were Mongoloid and here is the oldest one the found.
http://i50.tinypic.com/2w40mm9.jpg

The Uralic people of Siberia have substanstial Mongoloid DNA and they are the ancestors of your Finns. The Finns have 6% Mongoloid admixture and sami have 8-16% and it only takes 5 generations to dilute the admixture to 3.15%.

One Generation 50%
Two Generation 25%
Three Generation 12.5%
Four Generation 6.25%
Five Generation 3.15%

Uralic were properly like modern Siberian mongoloid but mixed the time they arrive the western Urals. Here are reconstruction of Uralics in Ural, you can tell the ones on the right look more Mongoloid.
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff277/aiwn/uralics.jpg

I mean even the Ural themselves are 46% Ural but 54% European.

How can anyway than say Uralic people were white?

http://www.hs.fi/kuvat/iso_webkuva/1076153676877.jpeg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4d/Khanty_women_in_Man_Uskve.jpg
http://mrted57.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/port-komi-girls.jpg

Szegedist

04-16-2013, 09:14 PM

I have heard many theories about the origin of the Finno-Ugric people.

One of them was that the Turanians were a group that split of the Indo-European group before the I-E langauges were formed, wandered off east and got exposed to Asian influence much earlier.

I think this is not that far away from the truth. I would say that Uralics are a transition group between Europe and Asia, like the Caucasus peoples.

Although there is a lot of Nordicist or Aryanist BS floating about, from ironically negroid admixed Sicilians.

Szegedist

04-16-2013, 09:15 PM

http://mrted57.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/port-komi-girls.jpg

How are they not white?

Harkonnen

04-16-2013, 09:16 PM

Original Uralic tribe were were Mongoloid and here is the oldest one the found.

Didn't I already tell you that that reconstruction is from Lake Baikal 8000 years ago. It cannot be Uralic.

ButlerKing

04-16-2013, 09:17 PM

Dude it says on your link it's based on autosomal crap. On previous post you said it was based on eyeball antropology crap. Which one was it, the truth?

Our physical appearance is related to our autosomal DNA, didn't you know this?
Uralics from western Ural are 54% and 46% others are even higher European.
Siberian Mongoloid components is 30-50% in Uralic groups.

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x251/zemelmete/Genetika/evi-volga-1.png

Sky earth

04-16-2013, 09:18 PM

You see..... this is exactly why it was a bad idea to merge threads because I need to explain the facts again.

LET ME TELL YOU.

Original Uralic tribe were were Mongoloid and here is the oldest one the found.
http://i50.tinypic.com/2w40mm9.jpg

The Uralic people of Siberia have substanstial Mongoloid DNA and they are the ancestors of your Finns. The Finns have 6% Mongoloid admixture and sami have 8-16% and it only takes 5 generations to dilute the admixture to 3.15%.

One Generation 50%
Two Generation 25%
Three Generation 12.5%
Four Generation 6.25%
Five Generation 3.15%

Uralic were properly like modern Siberian mongoloid but mixed the time they arrive the western Urals. Here are reconstruction of Uralics in Ural, you can tell the ones on the right look more Mongoloid.
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff277/aiwn/uralics.jpg

I mean even the Ural themselves are 46% Ural but 54% European.

How can anyway than say Uralic people were white?

http://www.hs.fi/kuvat/iso_webkuva/1076153676877.jpeg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4d/Khanty_women_in_Man_Uskve.jpg
http://mrted57.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/port-komi-girls.jpg

From where do you know that these facial reconstructions were Uralic people

Szegedist

04-16-2013, 09:20 PM

Also, if you looked at a map of where Uralic people live, you would see most of them live in remote regions in Siberia, some even on the edge of the Arctic and live like the Eskimos. This diet, lifestyle, extreme cold weather over thousands and thousands of years led them to adapt to these conditions, like smaller bodies for less heat loss, etc.

ButlerKing

04-16-2013, 09:20 PM

How are they not white?

For the same reason you cannot call this 50% White/50% Asian girl WHITE.... get what I mean. If he is 80% Mongoloid than you are considered as Asian.

http://www.aces-group.com/countries/russia/eurasian.jpg

Peikko

04-16-2013, 09:21 PM

Original Uralic tribe were were Mongoloid and here is the oldest one the found.

The Uralic people of Siberia have substanstial Mongoloid DNA and they are the ancestors of your Finns. The Finns have 6% Mongoloid admixture and sami have 8-16% and it only takes 5 generations to dilute the admixture to 3.15%.

Uralic were properly like modern Siberian mongoloid but mixed the time they arrive the western Urals. Here are reconstruction of Uralics in Ural, you can tell the ones on the right look more Mongoloid.

I mean even the Ural themselves are 46% Ural but 54% European.

How can anyway than say Uralic people were white?

You aren't a Brit. You can't get a single sentence of English correct without mistakes. Are you ashamed of your own country?

The truth is: Finns are dominantly Uralic with very little IE-mix and yet they look white. How do you explain that?

ButlerKing

04-16-2013, 09:24 PM

You aren't a Brit. You can't get a single sentence of English correct without mistakes. Are you ashamed of your own country?

The truth is: Finns are dominantly Uralic with very little IE-mix and yet they look white. How do you explain that?

My English is Irish mixed, with liverpool accent, and never been to school.
But I'm pure 100% British, believe it or not.

Finns are 90% North European in autosomal DNA with 6% Siberian Mongoloid DNA, hardly Uralic.

Szegedist

04-16-2013, 09:24 PM

bullshit

http://mrted57.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/port-komi-girls.jpg

Once again look at the picture closely, they barely look Asian.

Pallantides

04-16-2013, 09:25 PM

http://mrted57.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/port-komi-girls.jpg

In appearance they remind me a bit of this reconstruction of a Mesolithic woman from southern Sweden:
http://i.imgur.com/6ikEZ.jpg

And this woman from the Swedish Vasa ship:
http://i.imgur.com/dizIV.gif

ButlerKing

04-16-2013, 09:27 PM

Didn't I already tell you that that reconstruction is from Lake Baikal 8000 years ago. It cannot be Uralic.

Foolish.:picard1: It annoys me when people always try to confuse others. It's 9000-5000 years ago.

" Proto-Uralic is the reconstructed language ancestral to the Uralic language family. The language was originally spoken in a small area in about 7000-2000 BC (estimates vary), and expanded to give differentiated protolanguages. The exact location of the area or Urheimat is not known, and various strongly differing proposals have been advocated, but the vicinity of the Ural Mountains is usually assumed. "

Peikko

04-16-2013, 09:28 PM

and never been to school.

Explains a lot.

Sky earth

04-16-2013, 09:28 PM

My English is Irish mixed, with liverpool accent, and never been to school.
But I'm pure 100% British, believe it or not.

Finns are 90% North European in autosomal DNA with 6% Siberian Mongoloid DNA, hardly Uralic.

Where is it proven that the Proto-Uralics were genetically Siberian. I don't know any aDNA study from Proto-Uralics

Szegedist

04-16-2013, 09:30 PM

The fact is, jack shit is known about Uralics or Proto Uralics until recent times.
Most of what we "know" is just reconstruction, guessing and assuming.

Szegedist

04-16-2013, 09:30 PM

Harkonnen

04-16-2013, 09:31 PM

Foolish.:picard1: It annoys me when people always try to confuse others. It's 9000-5000 years ago.

" Proto-Uralic is the reconstructed language ancestral to the Uralic language family. The language was originally spoken in a small area in about 7000-2000 BC (estimates vary), and expanded to give differentiated protolanguages. The exact location of the area or Urheimat is not known, and various strongly differing proposals have been advocated, but the vicinity of the Ural Mountains is usually assumed. "

Usually Proto-Uralic homeland is situated on the west side of Ural mountains. Maybe u put it somewhere else, don't know.

But here's where Baikal is situated.

http://www.irkutsk.org/baikal/images/maprussia.gif

ButlerKing

04-16-2013, 09:32 PM

http://mrted57.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/port-komi-girls.jpg

Once again look at the picture closely, they barely look Asian.

At least 3 people in the picture don't look white but clearly mixed with Mongoloid.

The women on left and the one in the middle doesn't look white, clearly mongoloid mixed.

Look at those who are mixed and you will see.
http://hapavoice.com/tag/polish/

Don't always judge by appearance, people who are 25% Mongoloid rarely looks Asian and are Considered Caucasoid in anthropology but in genetics autosomal DNA is different story.
http://hapavoice.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/hapa216.jpg
http://hapavoice.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/hapa128.png

Szegedist

04-16-2013, 09:37 PM

At the end of the day, better be a Mongol Fingolian than Gypsy or Negroid admixed "Aryan".

To me it is not that relevant because I personally acknowledge Asian origins of Hungarians. It is nothing to be ashamed about and we have nothing to hide.

ButlerKing

04-16-2013, 09:38 PM

Udmurt people.
Anthropologists relate Udmurts to the Urals branch of the large European race which has some features of the Mongolian race. Most of them are of the middle size, often have blue or gray eyes, high cheek-bones and wide face. The Udmurt people are not of an athletic build but they are very hardy. and there have been claims that they are the "most red-headed" people in the world. Additionally, the ancient Budini tribe, which is speculated to be an ancestor of the modern Udmurts, were described by Herodotus as being predominantly red-headed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Udmurt_people

If you mixed with Italian, than their half Asian children will rarely get light hair or light eyes because those Whites in Italy are mostly dark hair and dark eyes to begin with.

North Europeans are the most blondism, light hair and light eyes is strongest character trait.

Szegedist

04-16-2013, 09:40 PM

If you mixed with Italian, than their half Asian children will rarely get light hair or light eyes because those Whites in Italy are mostly dark hair and dark eyes to begin with.

North Europeans are the most blondism, light hair and light eyes is strongest character trait.

By your logic Finland should have less blondism than its neigbours, but its the opposite..

Onur

04-16-2013, 09:41 PM

My English is Irish mixed, with liverpool accent, and never been to school.
But I'm pure 100% British, believe it or not.
lol, "irish mixed liverpool accent" my ass!!!

Don't lie. You are not British at all.

ButlerKing

04-16-2013, 09:41 PM

The fact is, jack shit is known about Uralics or Proto Uralics until recent times.
Most of what we "know" is just reconstruction, guessing and assuming.

The simple fact is Hungarians, Finns, North Europeans are 90% European in genetics.

Th Urals themselves are 54- 60% European with 16-50% Siberian Mongoloid components.

Szegedist

04-16-2013, 09:44 PM

If you mixed with Italian, than their half Asian children will rarely get light hair or light eyes because those Whites in Italy are mostly dark hair and dark eyes to begin with.

North Europeans are the most blondism, light hair and light eyes is strongest character trait.

By the way, Red hair is a recessive trait. Therefore Udmurts having very high % of red haired people means that....

ButlerKing

04-16-2013, 09:46 PM

By your logic Finland should have less blondism than its neigbours, but its the opposite..

No they shouldn't, Finns have the most blondism gene.
The problem with people like you is you're associating blondism with pure European DNA.

In fact West European or East European who mixed almost alwasys produce result where children mix Asian children light hair and light eyes, a South European who are dark hair and dark eyes almost always produce ones with dark hair and dark eyes.

These people are 83-85% Mongoloid but have all have light hair and light eyes.
http://blondesearch.ru/img/35/35e/Mongolian_Vs_Hmong_blue_eyes_green_eyes_red_hair_b londe_hair_.jpg

ButlerKing

04-16-2013, 09:51 PM

By the way, Red hair is a recessive trait. Therefore Udmurts having very high % of red haired people means that....

Means nothing, you can even South Siberian tribes with red hair, red beard, green eyes and still look more than 89% Mongoloid

This man had red hair since he was a kid and his eyes are hazel dark green
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-w_sQ9ZbmEWU/UPAKX073m1I/AAAAAAAAA48/PngPbDX2b-w/s760/near%2Bpogo%2Bhostel.JPG
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-TvyzGALxsKo/UOWXQZYfKPI/AAAAAAAAAp8/f8_EU-QCDaE/s760/me%2Bat%2Bmindauga%2Btower%2Bhill%252Caugust%2B201 2%252Cvilnius%2Blithuania.JPG
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-zN8DsPHpIAQ/UOWpEt9a0XI/AAAAAAAAAvM/Vf-6R1aV3lg/s760/cold%2Bday%2Bat%2Bexhibition.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-0HURyUuiIhM/UOWEV_z0n2I/AAAAAAAAAiw/MZHEXSQV3WM/s760/with%2Bnative%2Bindian%2Bmusicians.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-SgM32L9eFTY/UOV98gaDo4I/AAAAAAAAAf8/R1CUWwxEQp8/s760/enkhbaatar%2Bpainting%2Bin%2Btallinn%2Bstreet.JPG
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-rVDV7B3FWC0/UOWqEa96kiI/AAAAAAAAAvw/-TsUjZ_5R1c/s760/IMG_5666.JPG
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-3i3E8Fw6Z-E/UOWnMWDN_RI/AAAAAAAAAtw/jPP81ZL0ieE/s760/travel%2Bto%2Bnorway-d.jpg

Szegedist

04-16-2013, 09:55 PM

That is one example, we are talking about a predominately red haired population. Only coincidence?

ButlerKing

04-16-2013, 09:59 PM

That is one example, we are talking about a predominately red haired population. Only coincidence?

There is no population in this world that are predominately red haired not even your Udmurt who are 31% Mongoloid.

Many of them are but not most.
http://img.getglue.com/topics/p/udmurt_people/normal.jpg
http://russianpickle.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/udmurt_people_red.jpg

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x251/zemelmete/Genetika/evi-volga-1.png

ButlerKing

04-16-2013, 10:04 PM

And don't say there is no Mongoloid features just because their European DNA is predominant.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-MOyvcUgcnQ0/UOse7nSF5BI/AAAAAAAAXj0/Frw7vIjtq1I/s1600/Buranoskie+Babushki.jpg
http://www.nba.fi/hanti/kuvat1/073_slide0073_image068.jpg

04-16-2013, 10:04 PM

Most work based on autosomes come from Vadim Verenich. He is running a blog and he is well known on several forums including ABF. There isn't much to choose from.MDLP is his personal project which in terms of credibility is the same as the other projects dealing with this region that are based on autosomal data too - Fennoscadia Biogeographic project, Dodecad & Eurogenes.

His chart (Samples with suffix _V are his academic samples)Samples with suffix _V are NOT academic samples of any sorts. They're made up of individual project participants which in many cases have mixed ancestry, for example, Lithuanian_V average contains half Germans (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1iOSRjgNuKxA_F778Na47NUpdfwo_FFZNAeF8WtKCxK4/edit?authkey=CLCgvKQI&authkey=CLCgvKQI) and Ashkenazis (http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/showthread.php/17906-Magnus-Ducatus-Lituaniae-Project?p=1001710#post1001710) - that's why it's so different from the average of the actual Lithuanian academic reference samples ("Lithuanians" in your illustration).

I am not sure about Finns, Latvians and Estonians. Belarusians usually average around 75% and Lithuanians around 80%. If Finns have over 70% of NE Eu component and you can provide the sources from which the samples were obtained, then I would stand corrected.For comparison, here's one from Dienekes (no LVs or EEs, unfortunately):
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArAJcY18g2GadGd1UEFIbzVlUEtpbTd0S0RLcnVYT EE&hl=en_US#gid=0
from: http://dodecad.blogspot.com/2011/09/euro7-calculator.html

Belarusians have ~15% more North-East European component than Finns.

In other runs which do not attempt to split North European component into East & West (like the one Pallantides cited), Finns are ~7% more North-Euro than Belarusians. E.g.:
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2011/12/first-analysis-of-metspalu-et-al-2011.html

inactive_member

04-16-2013, 10:17 PM

For comparison, here's one from Dienekes (no LVs or EEs, unfortunately):
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArAJcY18g2GadGd1UEFIbzVlUEtpbTd0S0RLcnVYT EE&hl=en_US#gid=0
from: http://dodecad.blogspot.com/2011/09/euro7-calculator.html

Belarusians have ~15% more North-East European component than Finns.

In other runs which do not attempt to split North European component into East & West (like the one Pallantides cited), Finns are ~7% more North-Euro than Belarusians. E.g.:
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2011/12/first-analysis-of-metspalu-et-al-2011.html

Thanks for clearing this up.

rhiannon

04-16-2013, 11:54 PM

Not white obviously, just look at these Türanics:
http://oi46.tinypic.com/219pbna.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/1Wqfx.jpg

Anyway I vote for "Some are, some aren't", Hungarians, Estonians, Finns and Saami are obviously white while Nganasans are not.

Uralics are quite diverse
http://i.imgur.com/MXd4c4v.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/HAG9rmF.jpg

The top 3 people pictured would easily pass as white in the US....especially the two women.

alfieb

04-17-2013, 02:31 AM

I read a few years back blogs written by Finns who had Mongol spots as kids and it made them question their identity. Tragic. Turks take that as a badge of honor.

Atlantic Islander

04-17-2013, 02:39 AM

I read a few years back blogs written by Finns who had Mongol spots as kids and it made them question their identity. Tragic. Turks take that as a badge of honor.

It doesn't actually mean you have East Asian ancestry though, I had them when I was a baby. (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?69273-Mongolian-Blue-Spots-Were-you-born-with-them-or-do-you-still-have-them&highlight=mongolian+spots)

Ants

04-17-2013, 03:05 AM

The top 3 people pictured would easily pass as white in the US....especially the two women.

While alfieb kind do not.

alfieb

04-17-2013, 03:10 AM

While alfieb kind do not.

Oh? I'm always considered a white guy.

sevruk

04-17-2013, 04:45 AM

My English is Irish mixed, with liverpool accent, and never been to school.

it is noticeable

sevruk

04-17-2013, 05:35 AM

I think the Erzya most white of the Finno-Ugric peoples. And obviously a lot more white southern wogs
http://s60.radikal.ru/i168/0905/ee/9067d97370a8.jpg
http://s41.radikal.ru/i093/0906/69/ed1b7289a75c.jpg
http://s55.radikal.ru/i148/0906/4e/23544181fe81.jpg
http://s47.radikal.ru/i117/0906/45/41bab9c8e8d0.jpg
http://s50.radikal.ru/i129/0906/d9/84a2784cb3bf.jpg
http://s44.radikal.ru/i104/0907/e8/dbe91fa2db40.jpg
http://s49.radikal.ru/i124/0907/1b/e038a0b0633b.jpg
http://s41.radikal.ru/i091/0909/3e/8a8d8e7e8656.jpg
http://i033.radikal.ru/1002/ba/0dbfbd490049.jpg
http://s41.radikal.ru/i091/1002/9c/c8cd14af29cd.jpg
http://s60.radikal.ru/i170/1003/7c/763b194475f5.jpg
http://i018.radikal.ru/1004/ef/38d320b91c20.jpg
http://s50.radikal.ru/i128/1004/91/a2de11694e71.jpg
http://s60.radikal.ru/i167/1004/ae/a067f0496c4e.jpg

Harkonnen

04-17-2013, 08:00 AM

There is no population in this world that are predominately red haired not even your Udmurt who are 31% Mongoloid.

Many of them are but not most.
http://img.getglue.com/topics/p/udmurt_people/normal.jpg
http://russianpickle.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/udmurt_people_red.jpg

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x251/zemelmete/Genetika/evi-volga-1.png

Ok thanks! That's a very interesting chart you got there, it's based on mdlp world 22. However I'm not sure if you can call the samoyedic component from world22 as a purely mongoloid component.

Here are the fst divergenses from world22

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-I5hLjqqo6cA/UFR-oUHRNpI/AAAAAAAADwg/Lr5Tul6IJjo/s1600/Fst.png

Closest to the samoyedic is the northeast european component with a distance of 0,068. It is then followed..

east-siberian, distance 0,071
east-south-asian, 0,073
north-european-mesolithic, 0,074
west-asian, 0,075
south-american-amerind, 0,08
atlantic-mediterranean, 0,083
north-siberian, 0,085
near-east, 0,092
north-amerind, 0,095
paleo-siberian, 0,096
proto-indoitanian, 0,098

and then the rest of the posse.

It could be some sort of mixed component or who knows. Interesting nevertheless.