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Cern
09-06-2013, 05:43 PM
What is the origin of blue eyes and light skin? Paleolithic or Neolithic(Indo-Europeans)?

Arguments in favor of paleolithic origin:
I1 Y-DNA correlated light-eyes geographic distribution.

http://i39.tinypic.com/2ivkwhg.gif

http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/274/5/d/europe_light_eyes_map_by_arminius1871-d4bh3vy.jpg


Arguments neolithic origin:

http://eurogenes.blogspot.com.au/2009/05/ancient-siberians-carrying-r1a1-had_24.html

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2012/02/do-blue-eyes-stem-from-a-black-sea-resident-8000-years-ago/1#.UioPgMYvVQW

The research, as would be expected, is dense, but concludes that the mutuations responsible for blue eye color "most likely originate from the neareast area or northwest part of the Black Sea region, where the great agriculture migration to the northern part of Europe took place in the Neolithic periods about 6,000–10,000 years ago."

Red hair origin Indo-Europeans (Y-DNA R1b):
http://www.eupedia.com/genetics/origins_of_red_hair.shtml

Tarim and Scythian mummies light colors:

http://www.meshrep.com/PicOfDay/mummies/goldilocks1.jpg

http://newobserveronline.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/sythian-mummy01.jpg

Lord Rahl
09-06-2013, 05:46 PM
........

Mr.KnowItAll
09-06-2013, 05:47 PM
Actually your arguments for neolithic origin doesn't really support neolithic origin. The Indo-European expansion was already mixed, when it spreaded to Europe.

Smeagol
09-06-2013, 07:37 PM
Neolithic. Blue eyes originated on the northern shores of the Black Sea, and even outside of Europe, the Aryans were fair and blue eyed.

Stears
09-06-2013, 08:31 PM
Neolithic. Blue eyes originated on the northern shores of the Black Sea, and even outside of Europe, the Aryans were fair and blue eyed.

Wrong. Aryans were dark skinned dark eyed people with dark hair. Western Europeans had no serious genetic relations with proto-Indoeuropean people.

Smeagol
09-06-2013, 08:36 PM
Wrong. Aryans were dark skinned dark eyed people with dark hair. Western Europeans had no serious genetic relations with proto-Indoeuropean people.

Not true at all.

To help unravel some of the early Eurasian steppe migration movements, we determined the Y-chromosomal and mitochondrial haplotypes and haplogroups of 26 ancient human specimens from the Krasnoyarsk area dated from between the middle of the second millennium BC. to the fourth century AD. In order to go further in the search of the geographic origin and physical traits of these south Siberian specimens, we also typed phenotype-informative single nucleotide polymorphisms. Our autosomal, Y-chromosomal and mitochondrial DNA analyses reveal that whereas few specimens seem to be related matrilineally or patrilineally, nearly all subjects belong to haplogroup R1a1-M17 which is thought to mark the eastward migration of the early Indo-Europeans. Our results also confirm that at the Bronze and Iron Ages, south Siberia was a region of overwhelmingly predominant European settlement, suggesting an eastward migration of Kurgan people across the Russo-Kazakh steppe. Finally, our data indicate that at the Bronze and Iron Age timeframe, south Siberians were blue (or green)-eyed, fair-skinned and light-haired people and that they might have played a role in the early development of the Tarim Basin civilization. To the best of our knowledge, no equivalent molecular analysis has been undertaken so far.
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs00439-009-0683-0

Cern
09-06-2013, 09:04 PM
Wrong. Aryans were dark skinned dark eyed people with dark hair.

What you think the indo-europeans mummies? R1a1 Haplogroup.

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1a_Y-DNA.shtml#Tarim_mummies

http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rgrosser/eurasia/gallery_lrg8.jpg

riverman
09-06-2013, 09:07 PM
blue eyes and fair complexion are two different things, you have people with dark eyes who are very light.

as far as blue eyes, don't know.

Benacer
09-06-2013, 09:15 PM
What you think the indo-europeans mummies? R1a1 Haplogroup.

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1a_Y-DNA.shtml#Tarim_mummies

http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rgrosser/eurasia/gallery_lrg8.jpg

Tarim mummies are Tocharian, not PIE.

Smeagol
09-06-2013, 09:17 PM
Tarim mummies are Tocharian, not PIE.

They were still Indo-Europeans though.

Jackson
09-06-2013, 09:53 PM
The Scythians had some good tattoo artists. I don't know where light skin and eyes came from.

Solin
09-06-2013, 10:02 PM
It is also very probably that these features are the result of admixed meso-neo people and can't be attributed to neither mesolithics or neolithics.

Mr.KnowItAll
09-06-2013, 11:01 PM
It is also very probably that these features are the result of admixed meso-neo people and can't be attributed to neither mesolithics or neolithics.
That's certainly possible. It's not like PIE carried only R1a and R1b, they were a mixed race. But if they were dominantly blond and blue eyed, why aren't the Brits or Slavs? Anyone who actually believes in it must be retarded.

Smeagol
09-06-2013, 11:21 PM
That's certainly possible. It's not like PIE carried only R1a and R1b, they were a mixed race. But if they were dominantly blond and blue eyed, why aren't the Brits or Slavs? Anyone who actually believes in it must be retarded.

The Aryans were outnumbered by the Paleolithic Europeans, and mixed with them. Modern Slavs are not pure descendants of Indo-Europeans.

Mr.KnowItAll
09-07-2013, 03:22 AM
The Aryans were outnumbered by the Paleolithic Europeans, and mixed with them. Modern Slavs are not pure descendants of Indo-Europeans.
:picard1: That's not supported by genetics (Ireland R1b over 80% as an example)

Smeagol
09-07-2013, 03:26 AM
:picard1: That's not supported by genetics (Ireland R1b over 80% as an example)

Haplogroups say little about your actual ancestry. Irish are mainly paleolithic with some Aryan influence.

Mr.KnowItAll
09-07-2013, 03:56 AM
Haplogroups say little about your actual ancestry. Irish are mainly paleolithic with some Aryan influence.

So where did the Paleolithic haplogroups dissappear? What about the Iberians or Italians?

Smeagol
09-07-2013, 04:00 AM
So where did the Paleolithic haplogroups dissappear? What about the Iberians or Italians?

Haplogroups don't say anything about most of your ancestry. Irish belong mostly to paleolithic races. (Brunn, Borreby, etc...) Of course there is also influence from Neolithics, (North Atlantids, Keltic Nordic, etc.)

Goobyski
09-07-2013, 04:06 AM
I1 Y-DNA correlated light-eyes geographic distribution.

Er.. Do you realised that Y-DNA =/= pigmentation? Judging by that map you posted, North Italians are more blue eyes than North Slavs, which is obviously hard to believe.

Mr.KnowItAll
09-07-2013, 04:07 AM
Haplogroups don't say anything about most of your ancestry. Irish belong mostly to paleolithic races. (Brunn, Borreby, etc...)
You didn't answer my question. Where did the Paleolithic haplogroups haplogroups dissappear? If the Irish have mainly Paleolithic ancestry, then how did their paternal lines become mainly R1b?

Smeagol
09-07-2013, 04:11 AM
You didn't answer my question. Where did the Paleolithic haplogroups haplogroups dissappear? If the Irish have mainly Paleolithic ancestry, then how did their paternal lines become mainly R1b?

I don't know, but how do you explain their paleolithic racial types?

Mr.KnowItAll
09-07-2013, 04:20 AM
I don't know, but how do you explain their paleolithic racial types?
They don't have much paleolithic racial types. Typology is outdated.

Genetic med components are lowest among Nordics, who also have highest blond hair and blue eyes frequencies. How do you explain that?

Smeagol
09-07-2013, 04:24 AM
They don't have much paleolithic racial types. Typology is outdated.

The main type in Ireland is Brunn. Anyway R1b is also very common throughout other western European countries like Germany, Spain, and Portugal, are they all mostly Indo-European?


Genetic med components are lowest among Nordics, who also have highest blond hair and blue eyes frequencies. How do you explain that?

Because, the Indo-Europeans were northeast European.

Mr.KnowItAll
09-07-2013, 04:58 AM
The main type in Ireland is Brunn. Anyway R1b is also very common throughout other western European countries like Germany, Spain, and Portugal, are they all mostly Indo-European?



Because, the Indo-Europeans were northeast European.
Yes, those countries are predominantly Indo-European. And indo-europeans were meds, it's been proven by genetics. http://m.sciencemag.org/content/336/6080/466

The least indo-europeans out of those you mentioned are Northern Germans and they are also the blondest.

Stears
09-07-2013, 05:09 AM
Not true at all.

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs00439-009-0683-0

Do not forget that indo gypsy language is the closest language to ancient sanskrit language in Europe.

Smeagol
09-07-2013, 05:18 AM
Yes, those countries are predominantly Indo-European.

No, and they aren't predominantly Med either. North eastern Slavs are closest to the original Aryans. East Nordic with some CM influence.


And indo-europeans were meds, it's been proven by genetics. http://m.sciencemag.org/content/336/6080/466

No, this talks only about the first Neolithic farmers in Europe, the proto-Indo-Europeans were light pigmented, and from the South Russian Steppe. Why do you think most of the Tocharians, Scythians, Andronovo people, etc were fair haired, or light eyed?


The least indo-europeans out of those you mentioned are Northern Germans and they are also the blondest.

North Germany is mainly Borreby, or a Nordic/Borreby mix, and it also has the most Hallstatt Nordics in the country.

Smeagol
09-07-2013, 05:19 AM
Do not forget that indo gypsy language is the closest language to ancient sanskrit language in Europe.

So? Gypsies are racially indigenous Indians, and not Aryans, just as Sanskrit was an Aryan language and not indigenous to India.

Stears
09-07-2013, 06:06 AM
So? Gypsies are racially indigenous Indians, and not Aryans, just as Sanskrit was an Aryan language and not indigenous to India.

Wrong. Romany (gypsy) languages are closer to sanskrit than European IE languages.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/kent/voices/language.shtml

http://www.archive.org/stream/rosettaproject_rmy_vocab-1/rosettaproject_rmy_vocab-1_djvu.txt

Smeagol
09-07-2013, 06:08 AM
Wrong. Romany (gypsy) languages are closer to sanskrit than European IE languages.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/kent/voices/language.shtml

http://www.archive.org/stream/rosettaproject_rmy_vocab-1/rosettaproject_rmy_vocab-1_djvu.txt

Again, so what? Gypsies, and Indians only speak Aryan languages because they were conquered by Aryans.

1stLightHorse
09-07-2013, 06:11 AM
Why can't the answer be both.

How do you know that Blue eyes for example didn't have 2 points of origin?

Stears
09-07-2013, 06:16 AM
Again, so what? Gypsies, and Indians only speak Aryan languages because they were conquered by Aryans.

Aryan term was born originally as a linguistic term, and it was invented by linguists. So gypsies are aryans. They represent the original proto-IE people : black hair and eyes and dark skin. Do not forget the fact: Western European people are not real genetic descendants of proto-IE people.

Smeagol
09-07-2013, 06:21 AM
Aryan term was born originally as a linguistic term, and it was invented by linguists. So gypsies are aryans.

Only if you consider anyone who speaks an Aryan language to be an Aryan.


They represent the original proto-IE people : black hair and eyes and dark skin.

No they do not at all. Gypsies are from India, proto-IE people originated on the south Russian steppe, and East Nordics are the best examples of what they originally were. Just read the study I posted earlier, they were mainly fair haired and blue eyed with light skin.


Do not forget the fact: Western European people are not real genetic descendants of proto-IE people.

Any Nordics or Nordic traits in western Europe are from the Indo-Europeans.

Stears
09-07-2013, 06:24 AM
Only if you consider anyone who speaks an Aryan language to be an Aryan.



No they do not at all. Gypsies are from India, proto-IE people originated on the south Russian steppe, and East Nordics are the best examples of what they originally were. Just read the study I posted earlier, they were mainly fair haired and blue eyed with light skin.



Any Nordics or Nordic traits in western Europe are from the Indo-Europeans.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanskrit_language

Sanskrit (/ˈsćnskrɪt/; संस्कृतम् ‹See Tfd›saṃskṛtam [səmskr̩t̪əm], originally संस्कृता वाक् ‹See Tfd›saṃskṛtā vāk, "refined speech") is a historical Indo-Aryan language, the primary liturgical language of Hinduism and a literary and scholarly language in Buddhism and Jainism. Developing from Vedic Sanskrit, today it is listed as one of the 22 scheduled languages of India[3] and is an official language of the state of Uttarakhand.[4] Sanskrit holds a prominent position in Indo-European studies.

Smeagol
09-07-2013, 06:26 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanskrit_language

Sanskrit (/ˈsćnskrɪt/; संस्कृतम् ‹See Tfd›saṃskṛtam [səmskr̩t̪əm], originally संस्कृता वाक् ‹See Tfd›saṃskṛtā vāk, "refined speech") is a historical Indo-Aryan language, the primary liturgical language of Hinduism and a literary and scholarly language in Buddhism and Jainism. Developing from Vedic Sanskrit, today it is listed as one of the 22 scheduled languages of India[3] and is an official language of the state of Uttarakhand.[4] Sanskrit holds a prominent position in Indo-European studies.

And? What's your point? Sanskrit is an Aryan language, and is not indigenous to India.

Stears
09-07-2013, 06:31 AM
And? What's your point? Sanskrit is an Aryan language, and is not indigenous to India.

Sorry, but the sources state the opposite of your fantasy...

Smeagol
09-07-2013, 06:33 AM
Sorry, but the sources state the opposite of your fantasy...

Really?:rolleyes: point out where. Sanskrit is an Indo-European language. Indo-European languages are not from India.

Stears
09-07-2013, 06:35 AM
Really?:rolleyes: point out where. Sanskrit is an Indo-European language. Indo-European languages are not from India.

For nearly 2,000 years, a cultural order existed that exerted influence across South Asia, Inner Asia, Southeast Asia, and to a certain extent, East Asia.[10] A significant form of post-Vedic Sanskrit is found in the Sanskrit of the Hindu Epics—the Ramayana and Mahabharata. The deviations from ‹See Tfd›Pāṇini in the epics are generally considered to be on account of interference from Prakrits, or "innovations" and not because they are pre-Paninean.[11] Traditional Sanskrit scholars call such deviations ārṣa (आर्ष), meaning 'of the ṛṣis', the traditional title for the ancient authors. In some contexts, there are also more "prakritisms" (borrowings from common speech) than in Classical Sanskrit proper. Buddhist Hybrid Sanskrit is a literary language heavily influenced by Middle Indic, based on early Buddhist prakrit texts which subsequently assimilated to the Classical Sanskrit standard in varying degrees.[12]

According to Tiwari (1955), there were four principal dialects of classical Sanskrit: ‹See Tfd›paścimottarī (Northwestern, also called Northern or Western),‹See Tfd›madhyadeśī (lit., middle country), ‹See Tfd›pūrvi (Eastern) and ‹See Tfd›dakṣiṇī (Southern, arose in the Classical period). The predecessors of the first three dialects are even attested in Vedic ‹See Tfd›Brāhmaṇas, of which the first one was regarded as the purest (‹See Tfd›Kauṣītaki Brāhmaṇa, 7.6).

Stears
09-07-2013, 06:37 AM
True aryan faces (gypsy)

http://kuruc.info/galeriaN/egyeb/zs3eccehomonem.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_eFe1nyzqg8E/TIOJ-OvEhBI/AAAAAAAAAqc/m8E80_jCmQo/s1600/cig%C3%A1nyok.jpg

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSxcz_Y1QGP1kjQT9jrJl_2B_PoGye7y fiCnSh6EPM06qyCE23GqOonka8Q

http://kuruc.info/galeriaN/hir/rondaribanc.jpg

Smeagol
09-07-2013, 06:38 AM
For nearly 2,000 years, a cultural order existed that exerted influence across South Asia, Inner Asia, Southeast Asia, and to a certain extent, East Asia.[10] A significant form of post-Vedic Sanskrit is found in the Sanskrit of the Hindu Epics—the Ramayana and Mahabharata. The deviations from ‹See Tfd›Pāṇini in the epics are generally considered to be on account of interference from Prakrits, or "innovations" and not because they are pre-Paninean.[11] Traditional Sanskrit scholars call such deviations ārṣa (आर्ष), meaning 'of the ṛṣis', the traditional title for the ancient authors. In some contexts, there are also more "prakritisms" (borrowings from common speech) than in Classical Sanskrit proper. Buddhist Hybrid Sanskrit is a literary language heavily influenced by Middle Indic, based on early Buddhist prakrit texts which subsequently assimilated to the Classical Sanskrit standard in varying degrees.[12]

According to Tiwari (1955), there were four principal dialects of classical Sanskrit: ‹See Tfd›paścimottarī (Northwestern, also called Northern or Western),‹See Tfd›madhyadeśī (lit., middle country), ‹See Tfd›pūrvi (Eastern) and ‹See Tfd›dakṣiṇī (Southern, arose in the Classical period). The predecessors of the first three dialects are even attested in Vedic ‹See Tfd›Brāhmaṇas, of which the first one was regarded as the purest (‹See Tfd›Kauṣītaki Brāhmaṇa, 7.6).

And what is this supposed to prove?:bored:

Smeagol
09-07-2013, 06:39 AM
True aryan faces (gypsy)

http://kuruc.info/galeriaN/egyeb/zs3eccehomonem.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_eFe1nyzqg8E/TIOJ-OvEhBI/AAAAAAAAAqc/m8E80_jCmQo/s1600/cig%C3%A1nyok.jpg

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSxcz_Y1QGP1kjQT9jrJl_2B_PoGye7y fiCnSh6EPM06qyCE23GqOonka8Q

Aryans do not originate in India, and gypsies are not the descendants of the proto-Indo-Europeans.

Cern
09-07-2013, 06:52 AM
It is also very probably that these features are the result of admixed meso-neo people and can't be attributed to neither mesolithics or neolithics.

Possible.


That's certainly possible. It's not like PIE carried only R1a and R1b, they were a mixed race. But if they were dominantly blond and blue eyed, why aren't the Brits or Slavs? Anyone who actually believes in it must be retarded.

I do not think anything, I'm just curious. :)


Er.. Do you realised that Y-DNA =/= pigmentation? Judging by that map you posted, North Italians are more blue eyes than North Slavs, which is obviously hard to believe.

The map is imperfect but correlation is undeniable I1 Y-DNA and light colors.

Cern
09-07-2013, 06:58 AM
True aryan faces (gypsy)


Indo Europeans not Gypsies. Stop that troll behavior.

Stears
09-07-2013, 06:59 AM
Horatio, I don't trust in amateurs. I trust only in scholars and science.

Stears
09-07-2013, 07:01 AM
Indo Europeans are not Gypsies. Stop that troll behavior.

Don't lie!

Who did state that all all IE speaking people are gypsy? I stated that: gypsy languages are much more closer to original sanskrit language than the European languages.

Smeagol
09-07-2013, 07:01 AM
Horatio, I don't trust in amateurs. I trust only in scholars and science.

That's odd considering no scholar or scientist believes what you're claiming. Anyway, I already posted a scientific study.

Smeagol
09-07-2013, 07:03 AM
Who stated that all IE speaking people are gypsy? I stated that: gypsy languages are much more closer to original sanskrit language than the European languages.

Sanskrit, and most European languages are Indo-European. Gypsies, and Indian speak Aryan languages because they were conquered by Aryans.

Twistedmind
09-07-2013, 07:06 AM
First, I doubt that maps are correct. Since, they are mostly based on Coon's map which is based mostly on his speculations. But, I think blue eyes gen originated somewhere in Black Sea coast, and there are speculations about date, but generally, its few thousands years before begining of Neolith, so I would say Mesolithic.

Stears
09-07-2013, 07:06 AM
Sanskrit, and most European languages are Indo-European. Gypsies, and Indian speak Aryan languages because they were conquered by Aryans.

I think IE languages are not really European languages.

The original inhabitants of Europe didn't speak that language. Majority of Europeans are not genetic descendants of proto-IE people (language shift)

There are two times more native IE speaker in Asia than in Europe.

BrudnyZydMalpa
09-07-2013, 07:10 AM
Well the most Paleolithic DNA European populations or (North European DNA) tend to be the most blue eyed this includes Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Filand are the core of Paleolithic type more ancient European DNA.

According to Eurogenesblogspot the Baltic region has the most North European or (European)( DNA & also the most Blue eyed genetics.

Smeagol
09-07-2013, 07:10 AM
I think IE languages are not really European languages.

The original inhabitants of Europe didn't speak that language.

Wrong, because Indo-European languages are native to Europe.


Majority of Europeans are not genetic descendants of proto-IE people (language shift)

Not true. Anyone with a Nordic influence is descended from proto-IE people.


There are two times more native IE speaker in Asia than in Europe.

So?

Twistedmind
09-07-2013, 07:11 AM
I think IE languages are not really European languages.

The original inhabitants of Europe didn't speak that language. Majority of Europeans are not genetic descendants of proto-IE people (language shift)

There are two times more native IE speaker in Asia than in Europe.

Lol. Here comes retard again. :D

Stears
09-07-2013, 07:12 AM
Wrong, because Indo-European languages are native to Europe.



Not true. Anyone with a Nordic influence is descended from proto-IE people.



So?

IE languages and "aryans" are native to North-India Asia.

Smeagol
09-07-2013, 07:13 AM
IE languages and "aryans" are native to North-India Asia.:picard1::picard1:

:picard1: No. They are native to Europe, the south Russian steppe.

Neanderthal
09-07-2013, 07:15 AM
Ok, so the origin of the neolithic 'Aryans' was the Asian steppes, where they developed a genetic mutation of light hair and eyes (with no evolutionary advantages attached to it whatsoever) later they migrated to whole Europe specially northern (because here is where most of the light featured people reside, wich, because of this theory is due the 'Aryan' gene influx.) But, how can anybody explain the upper paleolithic/mesolithic looks of most of the northern Europeans? saying that most of them are Skando/Hallstatt Nordids is fallacy, also, southern Europeans are metrically much more neolithic than any modern population and they are not known for having light hair/eyes, so this whole theory is hard to believe. Is more probable that borealization was responsable for developing fair features in Europe and they were later expanded to other peripherical areas of northern Europe not the way around.

Smeagol
09-07-2013, 07:15 AM
Well the most Paleolithic DNA European populations or (North European DNA) tend to be the most blue eyed this includes Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Filand are the core of Paleolithic type more ancient European DNA.

According to Eurogenesblogspot the Baltic region has the most North European or (European)( DNA & also the most Blue eyed genetics.

But blue eyes originated by the Black Sea. Also, none of those people are pure paleolithic, they almost all have some IE influence.

Twistedmind
09-07-2013, 07:15 AM
:picard1::picard1:

:picard1: No. They are native to Europe, the south Russian steppe.

For fucks sake, why do you even discuss with that demented fool full of shit, to him 500 million (IE speakers in India, Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan) is twice more than 700 million (IE speakers in Europe). Anyone even approaching normal would stop discussing there.


Stears, tell me do you even have primary school education? Seems basic calculations are your weak point :laugh:

BrudnyZydMalpa
09-07-2013, 07:17 AM
I think IE languages are not really European languages.

The original inhabitants of Europe didn't speak that language. Majority of Europeans are not genetic descendants of proto-IE people (language shift)

There are two times more native IE speaker in Asia than in Europe.

What about this genetic study putting Indo-Europeans so closely associated with North-West Eurasian DNA.

http://bga101.blogspot.com/2012/09/theres-something-very-north-eurasian.html

What about this genetic study putting Lithuanians as the most European by DNA.

http://bga101.blogspot.com/2012/04/so-whos-most-european-of-us-all.html

Is this not interesting as Lithuanians have been said to have the more pure or conservative Indo-European language!?

Yes, we can see from Dodecad k12a spreadsheet Finland also scores high in European but Finland according to Dodecad has much more Siberian & East Asian DNA than Lithuanians as do Hungarians which seems to correlate to Finno-Ugric DNA!!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArJDEoCgzRKedGdRbkxKMDdlZkJWc21tdkpldWxwV mc#gid=0

BrudnyZydMalpa
09-07-2013, 07:22 AM
But blue eyes originated by the Black Sea. Also, none of those people are pure paleolithic, they almost all have some IE influence.

It says the North-West Black Sea which would be Ukraine.

Which Ukraine was inhabited by more Paleolithic settlements while obviously the Baltic region was too cold despite the Baltic region having the most Paleolithic DNA & Blue eyes today!!!

Smeagol
09-07-2013, 07:24 AM
But, how can anybody explain the upper paleolithic/mesolithic looks of most of the northern Europeans?

The majority of northern Europeans are not pure Nordics, or pure paleolithic Europeans, but are mixed between the two. Light hair evolved in both Aryans, and Paleolithics, but everybody with blue eyes can be traced back to one ancestor from the northern shores of the Black Sea.


saying that most of them are Skando/Hallstatt Nordids is fallacy,

East Nordics represent the original Aryans best, and most northern Europeans are not pure Aryan, or pure paleolithic.


also, southern Europeans are metrically much more neolithic than any modern population and they are not known for having light hair/eyes, so this whole theory is hard to believe. Is more probable that borealization was responsable for developing fair features in Europe and they were later expanded to other peripherical areas of northern Europe not the way around.

The Tocharians, Scythians, And Andronovo people were all known to be mostly fair. I've posted a study on that, and also, there are mummies from Scythians, and Tocharians with blonde, and red hair.

Smeagol
09-07-2013, 07:29 AM
It says the North-West Black Sea which would be Ukraine.

Which Ukraine was inhabited by more Paleolithic settlements

In the area where proto-IE people originated.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5a/IE_expansion.png/293px-IE_expansion.png

BrudnyZydMalpa
09-07-2013, 07:33 AM
In the area where proto-IE people originated.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5a/IE_expansion.png/293px-IE_expansion.png

Are you sure!?

With the earliest Kurgan found in Poland.

http://polishgenes.blogspot.com/2010/10/six-thousand-year-old-elite-corded-ware.html

Earliest R1a haplogroup found in Europe in Poland.

http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2009/11/finally-structure-in-haplogroup-r1a.html

It seems to shift the Kurgan Expansion to Poland actually!

Smeagol
09-07-2013, 07:37 AM
Are you sure!?

With the earliest Kurgan found in Poland.

http://polishgenes.blogspot.com/2010/10/six-thousand-year-old-elite-corded-ware.html

Earliest R1a haplogroup found in Europe in Poland.

http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2009/11/finally-structure-in-haplogroup-r1a.html

It seems to shift the Kurgan Expansion to Poland actually!

That is interesting. Your first link also confirms that the early Indo-Europeans were light pigmented.
Their autosomal SNPs suggest they had very similar pigmentation traits to modern North, Central and East Europeans

BrudnyZydMalpa
09-07-2013, 07:46 AM
That is interesting. Your first link also confirms that the early Indo-Europeans were light pigmented.

If ONLY Indo-Europeans carried Blue eyes & Blonde hair.

Then the question remains for Finland & Estonia who are 2 of the lightest pigmented people in Europe.

While Saami & Eastern Finnic tribes are darker they still have a lot of light eyes & light hair.

Smeagol
09-07-2013, 07:48 AM
If ONLY Indo-Europeans carried Blue eyes & Blonde hair.

Then the question remains for Finland & Estonia who are 2 of the lightest pigmented people in Europe.

While Saami & Eastern Finnic tribes are darker they still have a lot of light eyes & light hair.

Blonde hair at least evolved independently among both IEs and Paleolithics. Blue eyes possibly could have too.

Stears
09-07-2013, 09:00 AM
IE languagest were born in Anatolia, and it is newer theory than the old Kurgan theory.

Twistedmind
09-07-2013, 09:06 AM
IE languagest were born in Anatolia, and it is newer theory than the old Kurgan theory.

Lol. Some 30 years. :laugh: But Kurgan Hypothesis is mroe accepted among Historians and lingusists. Keep trying.

Btw, if you didnt notice, Anatolia is not Northern India :lightbul:

Stears
09-07-2013, 09:34 AM
Btw, if you didnt notice, Anatolia is not Northern India :lightbul:

Was it your new discovery? :)))))))

Do not forget, vast majority of proto IE people lived in India, a small minority lived in another places (which later proliferated)

Mr.KnowItAll
09-07-2013, 09:34 AM
Here's couple of facts:
Nordic phenotype is more common among Finns, Scandinavians and Estonians, than it is among Belarussians or Slavs. The same goes to light hair and eyes. No offense to Slavs.

I also provided scientific evidence that the neolithic farmers, who are associated with Indo-European expansion, were genetically meds. I rest my case.

Smeagol
09-07-2013, 09:37 AM
IE languagest were born in Anatolia, and it is newer theory than the old Kurgan theory.

And most scholars don't support it either.

d3cimat3d
09-07-2013, 09:38 AM
Blonde hair AND blue eyes originated in either Mesopotamia or the Levant. A good proof of this is Assyrians seem to lack the north European genetic component almost completely. In Dodecad K12a, they have 1.8% of it, and in Dodecad K12b, they have 0.9% of the same component. Assyrians are only outdone by Iraqi Jews, who carry 0% of this northern European component. Various analyses in Eurogenes have corroborated the low northern European component Assyrians show in Dodecad. Here's the Dodecad scores for the northern European component:

K12a
Europeans:
Lithuanian_D: 73.7%
Finnish_D: 72.3%
Russian_D: 64.2%
Polish_D: 61.1%
Swedish_D: 57.2%
Norwegian_D: 55.2%

non-Europeans:
Indian_D: 7.7%
Iranian_D: 7.3%
Kurd_D: 6.6%
Armenian_D: 4.6%
Lebanese: 3%
Syrians: 2.8%
Assyrian_D: 1.8%
Iraqi_Jews: 0.1%
Iranian_Jews: 0%

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArJDEoCgzRKedGdRbkxKMDdlZkJWc21tdkpldWxwV mc#gid=0

k12b
Europeans:
Lithuanians: 77.1%
Finnish_D: 75.5%
Lithuanian_D: 73.7%
Russian_D: 66.4%
Polish_D 63.3%
Swedish_D: 56.8%
Norwegian_D: 54.7%

non-Europeans:
Kurds_Y: 6.7%
Iranian_D 6%
Kurd_D: 5.7%
Indian_D: 4.8%
Iranians: 4.2%
Armenians: 4.5%
Lebanese: 3.7%
Armenian_15_Y: 3.4%
Armenian_D: 3%
Syrians: 2.7%
Assyrian_D: 0.9%
Iranian_Jews: 0%
Iraqi_Jews: 0%

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArJDEoCgzRKedEY4Y3lTUVBaaFp0bC1zZlBDcTZEY lE#gid=0

Yet, in spite of their low northern European component, Assyrians have a fair share of ethnic Assyrian individuals with light hair (both blond and red hair, the last of which is very common amongst Assyrians for some odd reason), blue and green eyes, and light skin. I'm not saying Assyrians with such light pigmentation represent the majority of Assyrians, but they do exist and they are far more than 1-2% of all Assyrians. I don't have any accurate statistics, but the overwhelming majority of the 30 or so Assyrians tested on 23andMe, are heterozygous for the blue eye genotype, and there are about as many homozygous blue eyed Assyrians as there are homozygous brown eyed Assyrians on 23andMe.

Smeagol
09-07-2013, 09:38 AM
Was it your new discovery? :)))))))

Do not forget, vast majority of proto IE people lived in India, a small minority lived in another places (which later proliferated)

You are an absolute moron.:laugh:

Smeagol
09-07-2013, 09:43 AM
Here's couple of facts:
Nordic phenotype is more common among Finns, Scandinavians and Estonians, than it is among Belarussians or Slavs.

But the Nordic phenotype is not paleolithic, and anyway, Slavs have the most East Nordics.


The same goes to light hair and eyes. No offense to Slavs.

Paleolithics, and IEs both were light.


I also provided scientific evidence that the neolithic farmers, who are associated with Indo-European expansion, were genetically meds. I rest my case.

The Neolithic Farmers are not associated with the IE expansion, early IEs were Nomads from the steppes. Also, Nordics are depigmented Mediterraneans.

Twistedmind
09-07-2013, 09:44 AM
Here's couple of facts:
Nordic phenotype is more common among Finns, Scandinavians and Estonians, than it is among Belarussians or Slavs. The same goes to light hair and eyes. No offense to Slavs.
Scandinavians are Indo-Europeans to.




I also provided scientific evidence that the neolithic farmers, who are associated with Indo-European expansion, were genetically meds. I rest my case.
Problem is, nobody associate PIE with Neolithic farmers.



Was it your new discovery? :)))))))

Do not forget, vast majority of proto IE people lived in India, a small minority lived in another places (which later proliferated)

Lol, how vaste majority lived there if they arrived in India, from somewhre else? Kurgan area, Baltic or Anatolia, depending on hypothesis?
Ok, you are officialy stupidest person here. :)

Stears
09-07-2013, 09:55 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cooTi_Uh5w4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cooTi_Uh5w4

True ancient Aryan music and dance :)))) A language which is very very close to ancient sanskrit.

Aryan "high-culture" :)))

Don't disinherit the poor aryan cousins! :)

"Her" arms are longer than her legs. Her smile...she has "rarely beautiful" teeth. Ancient aryan perfect proportionality....

Mr.KnowItAll
09-07-2013, 10:11 AM
But the Nordic phenotype is not paleolithic, and anyway, Slavs have the most East Nordics.

The Neolithic Farmers are not associated with the IE expansion, early IEs were Nomads from the steppes. Also, Nordics are depigmented Mediterraneans.
First of all, provide evidence of East Nordic type, because most anthropologists didn't have it and Lundman only mentions it. Nonexistent type, really. Second of all, Nordics still are more common even in Finland, than among slavs. Finns don't have med components. Besides, Nordics being depigmented meds doesn't contradict with my scientific evidence.

Scandinavians are Indo-Europeans to.

Problem is, nobody associate PIE with Neolithic farmers.

Scandinavians are less Indo-European than Italians. And of course the Neolithic farmers were already very mixed. But what do you mean, that they aren't associated with Indo-Europeans? As far as I know, neolithic expansion is associated with the spread of IE languages.

Twistedmind
09-07-2013, 10:13 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cooTi_Uh5w4

Dont post your relatives here. Plz.




True ancient Aryan music and dance :)))) A language which is very very close to ancient sanskrit.

So? English speaking blacks do not prove that ancient Germans were black.




Aryan "high-culture" :)))

Yes, Aryans had culture, 4,000 years before Hungarians, and 4,200 before Finns. :)




Scandinavians are less Indo-European than Italians. And of course the Neolithic farmers were already very mixed. But what do you mean, that they aren't associated with Indo-Europeans? As far as I know, neolithic expansion is associated with the spread of IE languages.
Lol. It's other way arround.

And as far as I know, PIE migrations are associatedw tih Bronze age. Neolith is New Stone age. :bored:

Stears
09-07-2013, 10:25 AM
Dont post your relatives here. Plz.




So? English speaking blacks do not prove that ancient Germans were black.



Yes, Aryans had culture, 4,000 years before Hungarians, and 4,200 before Finns. :)


Lol. It's other way arround.

And as far as I know, PIE migrations are associatedw tih Bronze age. Neolith is New Stone age. :bored:

She is your black haired black eyed balkan mother, and your ancient indo-european speaking cousins.

I can't understand your example with English and blacks.
There are no proof that gypsy groups have ever spoke non-IE languages. So it is their ancient heritage.

Serbians how related to aryans? Language shift ?

Stears
09-07-2013, 10:29 AM
Serbia is a typical balkan country, where the balck hair and brown eyes are highly dominant. That's why many Hungarians often confuse balkan people with gypsies.

Jackson
09-07-2013, 10:33 AM
You didn't answer my question. Where did the Paleolithic haplogroups haplogroups dissappear? If the Irish have mainly Paleolithic ancestry, then how did their paternal lines become mainly R1b?

The clan systems of Ireland are the most likely reason. R1b seems to have left an autosomal trace only in the minority, this is pretty clear when you see that the Irish are more related to some nations with say 30-50% R1b than to others with 70%+ R1b. Basically the chiefs would have many wives and many children (and of course many sons) and each of them may go on to have a fairly large number of children, although over time these families would blend into the general population, effectively giving R1b and over-representation. As this continued for a long time uninterrupted it's not surprising they are so high in R1b.

Twistedmind
09-07-2013, 10:40 AM
She is your black haired black eyed balkan mother, and your ancient indo-european speaking cousins.

My mother is green eyed, could you tell it for yours? :laugh:



I can't understand your example with English and blacks.
There are no proof that gypsy groups have ever spoke non-IE languages. So it is their ancient heritage.


You cant? Tell me why Gypsies look closer to Dravidians, who lived there before PIE arrived?




Serbians how related to aryans? Language shift ?
Linguisticaly?

Stears, phenotypicaly and genneticaly Hungary and Serbia are verry close. :laugh:
With differenec, there is 3 to 7 times more Gypsies in Hungary. (500,000-1,000,000 in Hungary vs 140,000 in Serbia).

Meh, I love n00b discussions. :)

Stears
09-07-2013, 10:44 AM
Stears, phenotypicaly and genneticaly Hungary and Serbia are verry close. :laugh:
With differenec, there is 3 to 7 times more Gypsies in Hungary. (500,000-1,000,000 in Hungary vs 140,000 in Serbia).

Meh, I love n00b discussions. :)

Wrong. Serbians have darker pigmentation.

http://www.sportsdirectnews.com/images/news/7367/660x0/taylor-urges-uefa-to-punish-serbs.jpg

Twistedmind
09-07-2013, 10:47 AM
Wrong. Serbians have darker pigmentation.

http://www.sportsdirectnews.com/images/news/7367/660x0/taylor-urges-uefa-to-punish-serbs.jpg

U sure?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d2/Hungary_national_handball_team_2010-01-09.jpg

Stears
09-07-2013, 10:48 AM
https://www.google.com/search?q=eye+color+maps+hair+color+map&client=firefox-nightly&hs=dvw&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial&channel=fflb&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=bAQrUqCzG4TJswaV9YHICw&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1920&bih=1015#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=35aMOx64bhUiAM%3A%3Bk_vYL0GFFSkeeM%3Bhttp%25 3A%252F%252Fnewphoenix.info%252Fwp-content%252Fuploads%252F2013%252F05%252Feyecoloreu rope.png%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fnewphoenix.info%252F %253Fp%253D4470%3B1600%3B1441

Twistedmind
09-07-2013, 10:51 AM
https://www.google.com/search?q=eye+color+maps+hair+color+map&client=firefox-nightly&hs=dvw&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial&channel=fflb&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=bAQrUqCzG4TJswaV9YHICw&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1920&bih=1015#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=35aMOx64bhUiAM%3A%3Bk_vYL0GFFSkeeM%3Bhttp%25 3A%252F%252Fnewphoenix.info%252Fwp-content%252Fuploads%252F2013%252F05%252Feyecoloreu rope.png%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fnewphoenix.info%252F %253Fp%253D4470%3B1600%3B1441

https://www.google.com/search?q=hungarians&newwindow=1&safe=active&client=firefox-a&hs=tcH&rls=org.mozilla:sr:official&channel=fflb&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=4AQrUq-UE8T54QSYjYC4CQ&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1280&bih=572#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=5YbCK7uo6_d28M%3A%3B-QV4i1ExE9nCZM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fupload.wikimedi a.org%252Fwikipedia%252Fen%252F5%252F5b%252FPhilad elphia_United_German-Hungarians_German_Hungarian%27s_1st_place_preispla ttler_team_2007.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fen.wikipe dia.org%252Fwiki%252FFile%253APhiladelphia_United_ German-Hungarians_German_Hungarian%27s_1st_place_preispla ttler_team_2007.jpg%3B5976%3B3424
:laugh:

Stears
09-07-2013, 10:56 AM
https://www.google.com/search?q=hungarians&newwindow=1&safe=active&client=firefox-a&hs=tcH&rls=org.mozilla:sr:official&channel=fflb&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=4AQrUq-UE8T54QSYjYC4CQ&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1280&bih=572#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=5YbCK7uo6_d28M%3A%3B-QV4i1ExE9nCZM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fupload.wikimedi a.org%252Fwikipedia%252Fen%252F5%252F5b%252FPhilad elphia_United_German-Hungarians_German_Hungarian%27s_1st_place_preispla ttler_team_2007.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fen.wikipe dia.org%252Fwiki%252FFile%253APhiladelphia_United_ German-Hungarians_German_Hungarian%27s_1st_place_preispla ttler_team_2007.jpg%3B5976%3B3424
:laugh:

What's your problem with these ethnic germans from Hungary?

Stears
09-07-2013, 10:57 AM
All anthropology shows that balkan people (including serbians) have average darker pigmentation (eye and hair color). that's why balkan people are often called as gypsy nations in Hungary.


http://newphoenix.info/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/haircoloreurope.png


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ilng4Lm9CI0/UKoaYrEoD_I/AAAAAAAAATw/8NebRqUEAOk/s1600/eyecolour.png


http://shrani.si/f/A/12M/lVbi88Z/europe-hair0223--light-h.png

http://pages.globetrotter.net/peter_frost61z/Hair-color.gif

http://uclahealthservices.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/hair_color_map_europe.png

Stears
09-07-2013, 11:03 AM
It is caused by the lower ratio of european genes in balkan people.

Mr.KnowItAll
09-07-2013, 11:05 AM
Dont post your relatives here. Plz.



So? English speaking blacks do not prove that ancient Germans were black.



Yes, Aryans had culture, 4,000 years before Hungarians, and 4,200 before Finns. :)


Lol. It's other way arround.

And as far as I know, PIE migrations are associatedw tih Bronze age. Neolith is New Stone age. :bored:

Neolithic means the agricultural revolution which spread with Indo-European languages. You should learn some high school level history.

Stears
09-07-2013, 11:07 AM
Neolithic means the agricultural revolution which spread with Indo-European languages. You should learn some high school level history.

High school? High school level in Europe. University level in balkan.

Twistedmind
09-07-2013, 11:07 AM
All anthropology shows that balkan people (including serbians) have average darker pigmentation (eye and hair color). that's why balkan people are often called as gypsy nations in Hungary.
Funny, we also call Hungary land of Gypsies.
And, guess what, its quite logic since there is million of them there.



http://newphoenix.info/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/haircoloreurope.png


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ilng4Lm9CI0/UKoaYrEoD_I/AAAAAAAAATw/8NebRqUEAOk/s1600/eyecolour.png


http://shrani.si/f/A/12M/lVbi88Z/europe-hair0223--light-h.png

http://pages.globetrotter.net/peter_frost61z/Hair-color.gif

http://uclahealthservices.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/hair_color_map_europe.png

Those maps have no any scientific value. All are based on Coon's book, which, besides being 80 years old was factually wrong. :) Anyway, Hungarians are bit lighter than Serbs, but maybe 5-10 % margin.


It is caused by the lower ratio of european genes in balkan people.

You have balkan genes. :laugh:


What's your problem with these ethnic germans from Hungary?

Nothing, this are from Philadelphia acctually. :laugh:

Stears
09-07-2013, 11:13 AM
Funny, we also call Hungary land of Gypsies.
And, guess what, its quite logic since there is million of them there.



Those maps have no any scientific value. All are based on Coon's book, which, besides being 80 years old was factually wrong. :) Anyway, Hungarians are bit lighter than Serbs, but maybe 5-10 % margin.



You have balkan genes. :laugh:



Nothing, this are from Philadelphia acctually. :laugh:

Of course all maps are "wrong". (because the reality causes inferiority complex for you) But such a less-european markers like the serbians have, the average darker pigmentation is not a wonder.

Hungarians are significantly lighter than balkan people. And it is also well known in Hungarian public awareness. Balkáni "cigány népek"
Gypsy nations of Balkan, is a Hungarian phrase.

Pleurat
09-07-2013, 11:17 AM
Of course all maps are "wrong". (because the reality causes inferiority complex for you) But such a less-european markers like the serbians have, the average darker pigmentation is not a wonder.

Hungarians are significantly lighter than balkan people. And it is also well known in Hungarian public awareness. Balkáni "cigány népek"
Gypsy nations of Balkan, is a Hungarian phrase.



Hungarians may be lighter than balkan people ( not all balkan people are the same btw, you can not compare greece with croatia or northern albania) but not as significant as you say.

Tell me hungarian how light are you?

( in your war with serbia do not offend all balkan nations, ok? )

Btw, a more detailed pigmentation map of Europe:


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b3/Map_pigmentation_in_Europe.png/783px-Map_pigmentation_in_Europe.png

Twistedmind
09-07-2013, 11:19 AM
Of course all maps are "wrong". (because the reality causes inferiority complex for you) But such a less-european markers like the serbians have, the average darker pigmentation is not a wonder.
Sure. :laugh:
http://www.slobodanjovanovic.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Smotra-Madjarske-garde-na-pe%C5%A1tanskom-Trgu-Heroja.jpg



Hungarians are significantly lighter than balkan people.
Yes :laugh:

http://bi.gazeta.pl/im/0/4510/z4510160Q.jpg




And it is also well known in Hungarian public awareness. Balkáni "cigány népek"
Gypsy nations of Balkan, is a Hungarian phrase.

:laugh:

http://www.presseurop.eu/files/images/article/militants-jobbik_1.jpg?1245084586

Stears
09-07-2013, 11:21 AM
Sure. :laugh:
http://www.slobodanjovanovic.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Smotra-Madjarske-garde-na-pe%C5%A1tanskom-Trgu-Heroja.jpg


Yes :laugh:





:laugh:

http://www.presseurop.eu/files/images/article/militants-jobbik_1.jpg?1245084586


Do you confuse black shako/hat with hair?

Twistedmind
09-07-2013, 11:22 AM
I am confusing dark skinn with dark skinn. ;)

Stears
09-07-2013, 11:23 AM
Serbian far right

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-OaUh4ToMyfA/TeKqj2482vI/AAAAAAAACh0/LNvmEAr4Nfo/s640/Group+of+Serbian+Nazi-collaborationist+Chetniks+Protest+Gen+Ratko+Mladic +Arrest.jpg


https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR8blhWLViDy1BeRCMGGh19W9f19SFRy TkiR8eKjXaWAvrfBD8Y


http://static2.demotix.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/a_scale_large/1600-8/photos/1354232524-serbian-ultranationalists-protest-after-un-tribunal-clears-haradinaj_1643628.jpg


http://inserbia.info/news/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Woman-saying-prayer.jpg


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-LLHSNO5OCk0/UWFpg_qqlXI/AAAAAAAABU4/IiN__4lMPCY/s1600/Serbia+protest+Kosovo+is+part+of+Serbia.jpg


http://blogs.blouinnews.com/blouinbeatworld/files/2013/06/Kosovo-protests.jpeg

Stears
09-07-2013, 11:30 AM
The less european markers made their effects :)))))))

Twistedmind
09-07-2013, 11:31 AM
The less european markers made their effects :)))))))


What part of sentence Hungarians are genneticaly and phenotipicaly verry close to Serbs is hard to understand to you?

http://www.b92.net/news/pics/2007/09/149463006946de6989f283f174952878_MidCol.jpg

RussiaPrussia
09-07-2013, 11:33 AM
All anthropology shows that balkan people (including serbians) have average darker pigmentation (eye and hair color). that's why balkan people are often called as gypsy nations in Hungary.


http://newphoenix.info/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/haircoloreurope.png


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ilng4Lm9CI0/UKoaYrEoD_I/AAAAAAAAATw/8NebRqUEAOk/s1600/eyecolour.png


http://shrani.si/f/A/12M/lVbi88Z/europe-hair0223--light-h.png

http://pages.globetrotter.net/peter_frost61z/Hair-color.gif

http://uclahealthservices.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/hair_color_map_europe.png

yeah and russians are lighter than you hungarians you made sears`?

Twistedmind
09-07-2013, 11:34 AM
This is my favourit: The perfect balkan look:


http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/pb-120711-miners-protest-spain-nj-05.jpg

Really? Spain is part of Balkans now :laugh:

Miners protest in Spain. :)

Cern
09-07-2013, 11:40 AM
Gentlemen's stay on topic!

Hevo
09-07-2013, 11:46 AM
http://blogs.blouinnews.com/blouinbeatworld/files/2013/06/Kosovo-protests.jpeg

That's interesting, Serbs with Albanian flags?:laugh:

Ontopic: Paleolithic/Mesolithic probably.

Cern
09-07-2013, 12:01 PM
Neolithic means the agricultural revolution which spread with Indo-European languages. You should learn some high school level history.


European people today are three groups. Mesolitich europeans, neolitich migration in the middle-east, and indo-europeans migration in the pontic steppe (bronz-age).

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml

Twistedmind
09-07-2013, 12:24 PM
European people today are three groups. Mesolitich europeans, neolitich migration in the middle-east, and indo-europeans migration in the pontic steppe (bronz-age).

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml

Third group is probably mixture of first two. Ethnogenesis of PIE happened in Chalkolith at least, since Indo-Europeans share roots for number of words about metal items. (Chalkolith - Cooper age)

Stears
09-07-2013, 01:53 PM
yeah and russians are lighter than you hungarians you made sears`?

Wrong. The population density in the lighter (northern) area is extremly low in Russia. So it doesn't matter.

Stears
09-07-2013, 01:54 PM
What part of sentence Hungarians are genneticaly and phenotipicaly verry close to Serbs is hard to understand to you?

http://www.b92.net/news/pics/2007/09/149463006946de6989f283f174952878_MidCol.jpg


Wrong.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3109/3217922716_b193544880_o.jpg

Twistedmind
09-07-2013, 01:56 PM
Wrong. The population density in the lighter (northern) area is extremly low in Russia. So it doesn't matter.
Lol. You are going in some kind of special School?


Wrong.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3109/3217922716_b193544880_o.jpg
Acctually, that picture does not contradict my words. HU and RS are indeed verry close. :laugh:

If you are done with making fool of yourself, could rest of us try to discuss thread in some meaningfull way?

Stears
09-07-2013, 02:04 PM
Serbian police protest

http://static.euronews.com/articles/209196/300x168_209196_serbian-police-protest-over-harshe.jpg

http://blogs.r.ftdata.co.uk/photo-diary/files/2013/04/serbs.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3240/2706404144_66b296b7f9_o.jpg

RussiaPrussia
09-07-2013, 02:05 PM
Wrong. The population density in the lighter (northern) area is extremly low in Russia. So it doesn't matter.

your own maps you posted are disproving dumb@ss

http://newphoenix.info/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/haircoloreurope.png

Stears
09-07-2013, 02:11 PM
your own maps you posted are disproving dumb@ss

http://newphoenix.info/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/haircoloreurope.png

This only map is not perfect, because it is very crude.

Russian phenotypes are less eropean. (High cheekbone brutal faces of average European russians are well known.)


Genetic backround:

http://genetiker.wordpress.com/2013/08/28/mongoloid-admixture-in-russians/

Twistedmind
09-07-2013, 02:15 PM
Where is this picture taken?

http://www.freemedia.at/typo3temp/pics/6b9e4d1fd0.jpg

Stears
09-07-2013, 02:18 PM
My favourite:

http://moderntribalist.blogspot.hu/2005/11/russian-alcoholism-and-mongoloid-gene.html


SCIENTISTS researching cures for alcoholism and hangovers say that they have found a genetic link between Russians’ traditional weakness for drink and the marauding Mongol armies of Genghis Khan.

As many as 50 per cent of Muscovites are estimated to have inherited Mongol genes that make them absorb more alcohol into the bloodstream and break it down at a slower rate than most Europeans, they say.

That means that they get more drunk and have worse hangovers, and are more likely to become addicted to alcohol, given Russia’s taste for vodka, its harsh climate and the social and economic chaos after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

“The difference is huge — in reaction speed, memory, hand tremor — and in how they recover,” Vladimir Nuzhny, of the Health Ministry’s National Narcology Research Centre, said. “On average, 50 per cent of people in Moscow have this Mongoloid gene. So this, we think, is part of the problem.”

As part of the study, the scientists paid 12 volunteer students to drink 350 grams, about a third of a bottle, of vodka in an hour, and then monitored their behaviour.

“That’s a lot by Western standards, but it’s normal for Russia,” Dr Nuzhny told The Times. “At first they thought it was great, because they were being paid to drink, but after a while they realised it was more like work.”

The intoxicated students had to perform a series of tests, including answering questionnaires and playing rally-driving computer games, and they were breathalysed at regular intervals. The scientists even measured their ability to stand up straight.

After sleeping off the effects in a dormitory at the laboratory — which had a karaoke machine — the students were given a slap-up breakfast before doing more tests to measure their hangovers. The study showed that those with the Mongol genes absorbed 50 per cent more alcohol into the bloodstream at peak levels and metabolised it much more slowly than the other students.

“The way they get drunk is completely different. They are also more likely to feel aggressive or depressed,” Dr Nuzhny said. “They do not necessarily look Mongolian, but the gene that governs how they metabolise alcohol is Mongoloid.”

The Mongols swept across Asia and Russia and into Europe in the 13th century and ruled Russia for two centuries. Inter-marriage with the Slavs and other ethnic groups was common.

Scientists have long known that people of Mongol extraction, including Chinese, Koreans and Japanese, have an enzyme for metabolising alcohol that is different from that of Caucasian Europeans.

Dr Nuzhny claims that his study is the first to look at the effect of alcohol on Russians who have inherited Mongol genes. He says that the phenomenon can be explained partly by evolution. The nomadic Mongols, whose only indigenous form of alcohol was fermented mare’s milk, evolved with a different enzyme from the settled Europeans, with their long tradition of producing stronger grape and grain-based alcohol.

Dr Nuzhny’s research is partly funded by pharmaceutical companies trying to develop drugs to cure hangovers and alcoholism.

Russans drink about 15 litres of pure alcohol a head each year, one of the highest rates in the world, and by some estimates one in seven Russians are alcoholics. Alcohol is largely to blame for a fall in life expectancy to less than 59 since the fall of the Soviet Union.

Stears
09-07-2013, 02:22 PM
Where is this picture taken?

http://www.freemedia.at/typo3temp/pics/6b9e4d1fd0.jpg

Jewish protesters in Budapest?

The picture is from that jewish protest: ( "HAHA" is a jewish student organization in Hungary)


http://ideszulettunk.info/elfoglaljak-a-kossuth-teret-a-nacizo-hahas-liboldo-ifju-kulturkampfosok


http://ceuweekly.blogspot.hu/2013/03/violation-of-privacy-rights-committed.html

http://dearvlad.wordpress.com/
(USE the google translator)

Twistedmind
09-07-2013, 02:25 PM
http://forbesindia.com/media/images/2012/Jun/img_65746_jobbik.jpg

http://previous.presstv.ir/photo/20121203/kaffash20121203152622293.jpg

Another set oh Hungarian J00z? :laugh:

Stears
09-07-2013, 02:28 PM
http://kuruc.info/r/2/109734/

Budapest MAJOR MR. Tarlós allowed for HAHA organization to held the illegally run "Sirály" club until the end of jewish Pesach celebration.

Stears
09-07-2013, 02:36 PM
REAL HUngarians:

http://revolucio.blogin.hu/files/2012/11/aa99331b34324645a3f8507e89d2d3aa.jpe Ligter than lgenetically less european serbians.

Stears
09-07-2013, 02:37 PM
http://rt.com/files/art-and-culture/news/blasphemous-pushes-thousands-streets-680/serbian-protest-photographs-swedish.jpg

Twistedmind
09-07-2013, 02:45 PM
REAL HUngarians:

http://revolucio.blogin.hu/files/2012/11/aa99331b34324645a3f8507e89d2d3aa.jpe Ligter than lgenetically less european serbians.

Lighter is relative term :laugh:
http://www.dodaj.rs/f/3j/yK/1n9K9Lcg/36578511892378838550192.jpg

http://www.thecommentator.com/system/articles/inner_pictures/000/004/112/thumb/Jobbik_demo.jpg?1378389154

Stears
09-07-2013, 02:49 PM
Lighter is relative term :laugh:
http://www.dodaj.rs/f/3j/yK/1n9K9Lcg/36578511892378838550192.jpg

http://www.thecommentator.com/system/articles/inner_pictures/000/004/112/thumb/Jobbik_demo.jpg?1378389154

Post only male photos. Women's dyed hair is not relevant. he summer pictures of tanned Magyar Gárda is also lighter than average serbian in winter.

It is enough to travell to serbia to watch your people.

Solin
09-07-2013, 02:54 PM
...

This is a hoax article. It can be found only on blogs. No source for it.

Twistedmind
09-07-2013, 02:57 PM
Post only male photos. Women's dyed hair is not relevant. he summer pictures of tanned Magyar Gárda is also lighter than average serbian in winter.

No. :laugh:
https://sphotos-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/c0.18.851.315/p851x315/535775_10151622363308757_1974791777_n.jpg



It is enough to travell to serbia to watch your people.
:laugh: Like you did?
Anyway, I did told Hungarians are bit lighter, but you are not Swedes, not even Poles.

Stears
09-07-2013, 02:58 PM
This is a hoax article. It can be found only on blogs. No source for it.

HAHA is a jewish student organization. It is well known in Hungary.

Solin
09-07-2013, 03:01 PM
HAHA is a jewish student organization. It is well known in Hungary.

That is not the post I quoted. I quoted the post about alcoholism and Russians.

Übermensch
09-07-2013, 03:06 PM
I belive the origin of fair (red and blond hair) light skin that tan with difficult and light eyes (from hazel to blue) derives mainly from Upper Paleolithic people or better saying from neanderthals that apparently had light eyes,red hair and fair skin, while the proto-CM people were long-headed and slender nilotics (now their skin is black as you can get but in the past they might have been lighter) with dark hair and eyes, the mixing between the two races created the Borreby and Bruenn races with large skulls and heads and fair pigmentation deriving from neanderthals.
While the negroid race is resulting of a mixing between proto-cm/nilotid and small headed-bodied pigmoids.
I belive than another mutation in the neolithic created blue eyes and this time by middle eastern farmers, with skin able to tan and dark hair (like Assad for example).

Solin
09-07-2013, 03:10 PM
I belive than another mutation in the neolithic created blue eyes and this time by middle eastern farmers, with skin able to tan and dark hair (like Assad for example).

There are several independent mutations for light hair and eyes in Europeans. That is what I read, but I wonder are they all due to either hunter-gatherers or farmers.

BrudnyZydMalpa
09-07-2013, 03:13 PM
North European DNA here seems to correlate extremely close to Blue eyes & Blonde hair.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArJDEoCgzRKedGdRbkxKMDdlZkJWc21tdkpldWxwV mc#gid=0

Even the higher North European content in Kurds in the Middle East & Irish vs British is interesting.

As Carleton Coon had done a Blue eyed map showing elevated Blue eyes in Kurds in the Mid East & also higher Blue eyes in Ireland than Britain.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/54/Light_Eyes_Map.png

This all would seem to suggest Paleolithic origins of Blue eyes most likely.

i mean during the Neolithic era Europe became filled with Neolithic farmers from the Near East & thus became LESS NORTH EUROPEAN.

Übermensch
09-07-2013, 03:13 PM
There are several independent mutations for light hair and eyes in Europeans. That is what I read, but I wonder are they all due to either hunter-gatherers or farmers.

Cromagnoids always seems to be blondish to very blond in hair and eyes and their skin always happen to be fair,i belive those Cromagnoids posses this very light pigmentation because of mixing with neanderthals, which account also for their larger skulls.

Übermensch
09-07-2013, 03:24 PM
UP features and light pigmentation:

http://www.sportgeschiedenis.nl/userfiles/ronaldkoeman(3).jpg
http://www.badtaste.it/sites/default/files/images/varie/2012-2/Brendan_Gleeson%201.jpg
http://estaticos02.cache.el-mundo.net/elmundo/imagenes/2009/06/19/1245401897_0.jpg
http://northernheckler.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/william_hague400.jpg
http://i781.photobucket.com/albums/yy91/nt_1488/clasificacion/red_nordid_nordico_rojo_raza_race_nordic.jpg

Übermensch
09-07-2013, 03:31 PM
Neolithic features and dark pigmentation

http://www.topnews.in/sports/files/Fernando-Alonso_7.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7d/Bashar_al-Assad_(cropped).jpg/225px-Bashar_al-Assad_(cropped).jpg
http://www.terraligure.it/blog/la_russa.jpg
http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMTUyOTQ3NTYyNF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwMTY2NjIzNQ@@._ V1._SX214_CR0,0,214,314_.jpg

Übermensch
09-07-2013, 03:39 PM
Europeans where huge Cromagnoids in the past very often blonde in eye and eyes and fair in skin, the neolithic farmers from the middle east that exported agriculture in Europe changed this situation, their skull are smaller, their costiutution is thiner and their brain capacity is less than the Cromagnoids.
Cromagnoids are actually hybrids between ancient african proto-CM and Neanderthals with the neanderthal component being stronger.

Cern
09-07-2013, 03:58 PM
I belive the origin of fair (red and blond hair) light skin that tan with difficult and light eyes (from hazel to blue) derives mainly from Upper Paleolithic people or better saying from neanderthals that apparently had light eyes,red hair and fair skin, while the proto-CM people were long-headed and slender nilotics (now their skin is black as you can get but in the past they might have been lighter) with dark hair and eyes, the mixing between the two races created the Borreby and Bruenn races with large skulls and heads and fair pigmentation deriving from neanderthals.

Faelid and West-Baltid?

Genetics does not justify the strong mixing of Neanderthals.

Pleurat
09-07-2013, 04:03 PM
Europeans where huge Cromagnoids in the past very often blonde in eye and eyes and fair in skin, the neolithic farmers from the middle east that exported agriculture in Europe changed this situation, their skull are smaller, their costiutution is thiner and their brain capacity is less than the Cromagnoids.
Cromagnoids are actually hybrids between ancient african proto-CM and Neanderthals with the neanderthal component being stronger.

Dinarids are supposed to be neolithic but they are the tallest people in Europe ( balkaners of course, not italics) and very robust.

Übermensch
09-07-2013, 04:04 PM
Faelid and West-Baltid?

Genetics does not justify the strong mixing of Neanderthals.

Baltids are propably proto-australoids-ainu mixed with neanderthals and adapted to boreal climate, Faelid is the same as Bruenn.

Cern
09-07-2013, 04:06 PM
Dinarids are supposed to be neolithic but they are the tallest people in Europe ( balkaners of course, not italics) and very robust.

My opinion dinarid neolithic.

Übermensch
09-07-2013, 04:06 PM
Dinarids are supposed to be neolithic but they are the tallest people in Europe ( balkaners of course, not italics) and very robust.

Dinarids are not robust in comparison to Borreby or Bruenns, they are ectomorphic, and there's a CM strain in the balkans (balkan borreby) mainly in Montenegro, is a very tall and robust borreby with dinarid features and influenced by dinarid by measuraments.

Solin
09-07-2013, 04:07 PM
Baltids are propably proto-australoids-ainu mixed with neanderthals and adapted to boreal climate, Faelid is the same as Bruenn.

What a crap

Pleurat
09-07-2013, 04:10 PM
Dinarids are not robust in comparison to Borreby or Bruenns, they are ectomorphic, and there's a CM strain in the balkans (balkan borreby) mainly in Montenegro, is a very tall and robust borreby with dinarid features and influenced by dinarid by measuraments.

There is a lot of borreby in western kosovo and north albania also, and albanians who are considered the most dinarid inlfuenced people of europe are at least mesomorphic, with north albanians being very robust.

Dinarids are not ectomporhic.

This pure dinarid highlander is robust and very tall:

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/8076/img0465eq.jpg

Cern
09-07-2013, 04:12 PM
Baltids are propably proto-australoids-ainu mixed with neanderthals and adapted to boreal climate, Faelid is the same as Bruenn.

West-baltid east cromagnoid.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?73486-quot-it-is-so-easy-that-a-six-year-old-girl-can-do-it-quot&p=1443863&viewfull=1#post1443863

BrudnyZydMalpa
09-07-2013, 04:12 PM
Baltids are propably proto-australoids-ainu mixed with neanderthals and adapted to boreal climate, Faelid is the same as Bruenn.

If anything Baltids are probably the most European phenotype.

1. Supported with Baltids being highest in the Baltic Region with most North European DNA according to Dodecad

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArJDEoCgzRKedGdRbkxKMDdlZkJWc21tdkpldWxwV mc#gid=0

2. Supported by Finland being closest to Cro Magnon. (Finland is high in Baltids)

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_u7NyW2SaZlE/TSRaQkMRzqI/AAAAAAAAAGs/PgH5vY1Ctto/s500/Brace2005-Fig2.png

3. Supported by Cro Magnon reconstructions looking Baltid

http://realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/images_eman/cro_magnon_3.jpg

4. Supported by Cro Magnon art looking Baltid

http://www.city-data.com/forum/attachments/europe/98038d1341473875-finns-hungarians-russians-eastern-slavs-part-cro-magnon-self.jpg

Übermensch
09-07-2013, 04:17 PM
If anything Baltids are probably the most European phenotype.

1. Supported with Baltids being highest in the Baltic Region with most North European DNA according to Dodecad

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArJDEoCgzRKedGdRbkxKMDdlZkJWc21tdkpldWxwV mc#gid=0

2. Supported by Finland being closest to Cro Magnon.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_u7NyW2SaZlE/TSRaQkMRzqI/AAAAAAAAAGs/PgH5vY1Ctto/s500/Brace2005-Fig2.png

3. Supported by Cro Magnon reconstructions looking like Baltid

http://realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/images_eman/cro_magnon_3.jpg

4. Supported by Cro Magnon art looking Baltid

http://www.city-data.com/forum/attachments/europe/98038d1341473875-finns-hungarians-russians-eastern-slavs-part-cro-magnon-self.jpg

They are closer to the original mesolithic man but they have a different origin from western european UPs, if you notice western euro UPs are more often reddish than white-blond in terms of hair...

BrudnyZydMalpa
09-07-2013, 04:22 PM
They are closer to the original mesolithic man but they have a different origin from western european UPs, if you notice western euro UPs are more often reddish than white-blond in terms of hair...

Why do a lot of red heads have curly hair!? Some even literally nappy!

Why does Gedrosia DNA (Dravidian) elevated in the EXACT areas of red heads in the British Islands. (With Gedrosia DNA highest in Scotland then Ireland followed by Britain ect)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArJDEoCgzRKedGdRbkxKMDdlZkJWc21tdkpldWxwV mc#gid=0

IMO... Many red heads have a Gedrosia mixture.... Perhaps people might not like this... It explains to me why many of them have curly hair & even features that look like Albino Swarthy people.

BrudnyZydMalpa
09-07-2013, 04:41 PM
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArJDEoCgzRKedGdRbkxKMDdlZkJWc21tdkpldWxwV mc#gid=0

#151 Argyll (Scotland) is the most Gedrosia DNA on the chart for Europe.

This also seems to be the most red haired part of Europe on the chart too though!!!

While there is a correlation between North-European & Blonde hair + Blue eyes.

It seems there is a correlation in EUROPE at least PERHAPS between Red hair & Gedrosia. (Of course this is a much weaker link)

Still.... When I see red heads with nappy hair like Travis Flory.... I think this is the Gedrosia element!!

http://www.contactmusic.com/pics/la/step_brothers_3_160708/travis_t._flory_1976589.jpg

gold_fenix
09-07-2013, 08:50 PM
Those who speak about neanderthal, between they had races between 4 or 6 it seems and with different pigmentation, but i think all had light skin, we are speaking about origin of light pigmentation a same origin, pigmentation in skin in genetical it seems more strong that light eyes, too red hair (this gen is cleary paleolithic perhaps from neanderthals , who knows) is a different gen in pigmentation of hair, if light skin seems to be more predominant than light eyes surely is older , too once i was speaking with someone about apes, they haven't dark skin , indeed is very light only is cover by hair

Too I want to comment something with Mr.KnowItAll really baffling Finnish and Iberian we are between populations of Europe with highest frecuency of paleolithic mt-DNA being diverses, too our coutries have a near with populations being descripted oldest population in Europe Saami and Basques

Smeagol
09-07-2013, 09:06 PM
Baltids are propably proto-australoids-ainu mixed with neanderthals and adapted to boreal climate, Faelid is the same as Bruenn.

:picard1: No.

Smeagol
09-07-2013, 09:12 PM
First of all, provide evidence of East Nordic type, because most anthropologists didn't have it and Lundman only mentions it. Nonexistent type, really.

Just look at the pictures in the East Nordic thread.


Second of all, Nordics still are more common even in Finland, than among slavs. Finns don't have med components. Besides, Nordics being depigmented meds doesn't contradict with my scientific evidence.

Hallstatt Nordics are more common in Finland, but East Nordics are more common in Slavic countries.


Scandinavians are less Indo-European than Italians.

No they aren't.


And of course the Neolithic farmers were already very mixed. But what do you mean, that they aren't associated with Indo-Europeans? As far as I know, neolithic expansion is associated with the spread of IE languages.

Neolithic farmers are not associated with the spread of IE languages. The Indo-Europeans came from the Pontic-Caspian steppe and were a mix of different depigmented Mediterranean types with some paleolithic (Baltic) influence.

Cern
09-08-2013, 06:48 AM
Too I want to comment something with Mr.KnowItAll really baffling Finnish and Iberian we are between populations of Europe with highest frecuency of paleolithic mt-DNA being diverses, too our coutries have a near with populations being descripted oldest population in Europe Saami and Basques



Not possible that the Basques neolithic immigrants? Looks dinaromorf and gracilis.
CM types robust, most of north-west Europe.

http://i39.tinypic.com/2enrul5.jpg

Übermensch
09-08-2013, 08:06 AM
Upper paleolithic survivors:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v616/cass22/coon/04BruennsurvivorsinScandinaviaplate.jpg

http://www.humanbiologicaldiversity.com/Photos/Coon%20Plate%205.jpg

http://www.humanbiologicaldiversity.com/Photos/Coon%20Plate%206.jpg

http://www.humanbiologicaldiversity.com/Photos/Coon%20Plate%209.jpg

In the Balkans:
http://www.humanbiologicaldiversity.com/Photos/Coon%20Plate%208.jpg

Those types are almost always light pigmenteted (light skin,hair and eyes).

now the neolithic invaders:

http://www.humanbiologicaldiversity.com/Photos/Coon%20Plate%2026.jpg

http://www.humanbiologicaldiversity.com/Photos/Coon%20Plate%2022.jpg

http://www.humanbiologicaldiversity.com/Photos/Coon%20Plate%2016.jpg

http://www.humanbiologicaldiversity.com/Photos/Coon%20Plate%2017.jpg

They clearly show dark pigmentation of hair (often black) eyes and skin in their pure form, nordids take their partially light pigmentation from UP natives.

Nikolaď III
09-08-2013, 08:35 AM
I support the paleolithic explaination, it's seems more convicing with the maps but also that some think neanderthals were also blue eyed and that blue eyes could be an alder feature that the neolithic invaders possed but did not brought in Europe.

Smeagol
09-08-2013, 08:39 AM
nordids take their partially light pigmentation from UP natives.

Nordics are depigmented Mediterraneans. They evolved light features on their own. And remember, blue eyes originated in Ukraine, not northern Europe.

Jackson
09-08-2013, 11:26 AM
Nordics are depigmented Mediterraneans. They evolved light features on their own. And remember, blue eyes originated in Ukraine, not northern Europe.

Actually the main genetic components of Nordics are more closely related to those in West Asia, and they only have a relatively small amount of admixture from the Mediterranean. That goes for most of northern Europe but Mediterranean admixture increases as you go south and west (within northern Europe).

Smeagol
09-08-2013, 11:27 AM
Actually the main genetic components of Nordics are more closely related to those in West Asia, and they only have a relatively small amount of admixture from the Mediterranean. That goes for most of northern Europe but Mediterranean admixture increases as you go south and west (within northern Europe).

This is true, but most West Asians are phenotypically part of the Mediterranean race.

Jackson
09-08-2013, 11:35 AM
This is true, but most West Asians are phenotypically part of the Mediterranean race.

Ah ok, fair enough then.

Mr.KnowItAll
09-08-2013, 11:43 AM
Just look at the pictures in the East Nordic thread.

That's not a real source, because it only shows what forum members think East Nordic looks like, not how it really looks like. It also doesn't tell anything about frequencies.


Neolithic farmers are not associated with the spread of IE languages. The Indo-Europeans came from the Pontic-Caspian steppe and were a mix of different depigmented Mediterranean types with some paleolithic (Baltic) influence.

Some archaeologists believe that the expansion of Neolithic peoples from southwest Asia into Europe, marking the eclipse of Mesolithic culture, coincided with the introduction of Indo-European speakers, whereas other archaeologists and many linguists believe the Indo-European languages were introduced from the Pontic-Caspian steppe during the succeeding Bronze Age. A few see Indo-European languages starting in Paleolithic times

Smeagol
09-08-2013, 11:46 AM
That's not a real source, because it only shows what forum members think East Nordic looks like, not how it really looks like. It also doesn't tell anything about frequencies.

Well, then I'll just say the early Indo-Europeans looked mainly Nordic with a small paleolithic influence, because that's what East Nordics are.


Some archaeologists believe that the expansion of Neolithic peoples from southwest Asia into Europe, marking the eclipse of Mesolithic culture, coincided with the introduction of Indo-European speakers, whereas other archaeologists and many linguists believe the Indo-European languages were introduced from the Pontic-Caspian steppe during the succeeding Bronze Age. A few see Indo-European languages starting in Paleolithic times

Yes, and the majority of scholars support the Kurgan hypothesis.

BrudnyZydMalpa
09-08-2013, 06:11 PM
Not possible that the Basques neolithic immigrants? Looks dinaromorf and gracilis.
CM types robust, most of north-west Europe.

Yes, according to newer DNA evidence it seems Basques are Neolithic immigrants.

http://www.livescience.com/21246-cavemen-bones-oldest-human-dna.html


The scientists recovered 1.34 percent and 0.5 percent of the human genomes from the bones of these two cave men. Analyses revealed that current populations of the Iberian Peninsula, which includes Spain, Portugal and Andorra, are not genetically linked with these ancient hunter-gatherers. Instead, these cavemen were closer genetically to the current populations of northern Europe.

"There are many works that claim the Basques [of the Iberian Peninsula] could be descendants from Mesolithics that became isolated in the Basque country," Lalueza-Fox said. "We found the modern Basques are genetically not related to these two individuals."

ChairmanoftheBored
09-08-2013, 06:12 PM
Watchers.