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What were they? Comparing two theories

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A theory is useful because it enables us to predict the future.
A theory is valid only if it explains all facts of its domain, and it’s invalid if it is contradicted even by a single fact. This should be obvious, how possibly can a theory predict things that haven’t happened yet, if it can’t explain things that have already happened?

I’m gonna compare two theories of what was the civilization that preceded the Roman civilization, Greek or Albanian, and see which of them can explain all facts, and which contradicts itself.

I’ll start with the Greek version, according to which Greeks had a great ancient civilization, while Albanians either didn’t existed yet, or were so apathetic as to be unnoticed. Also it implies that Albanians, latter when they became visible (it doesn’t say when and how), were retarded villagers who started to write latter than any other nation.

The Greek theory however can’t explain these facts:
1. Why did they throw away the style of ‘making questions’ (philosophers) to adopt the style of ‘God knows’ (orthodoxy) ?
2. How come they remember so much about ancient times, even gossips (how X called Y), and they don’t remember anything about the most important event in their history, which happened later? I’m referring to the moment of becoming Orthodox, because that’s what they have been for the last two millenniums and still are now.
3. How come, in the first and second century after Christ, by the time they have already “changed system”, they were creating statues (reproductions of lost originals) of their heroes of the “old system” and they weren’t documenting the events and new heroes that gave them the “new system” and liberated from the “old one”? As an analogy, imagine ex-communist countries building statues of their previous communist leaders in the first years after they throw away communism. The opposite happened, the existing statues were removed.
4. How come Albanians, a people of retarded villagers, had the highest number of Grand Vezires / Prime Ministers of the Ottoman Empire per population, higher than that of Turks themselves?
5. How come Greeks, a people of great warriors and philosophers, were nothing more than part of the common herd?
6. Why Greeks are so hysteric about names, mere words, to the point of blocking the population of an entire country to make progress in some political and economical objectives?
7. Why, despite the huge economic and politic support they had, they’ve been nothing more than an average country? By being a continuation of a highly vital population that distinguished itself, they should not only have been able to take care of themselves, but maybe even help others.
8. Why Greeks have the current economic crisis?

Greek theory not only doesn’t explain anything about Albanians (which is OK), but it doesn’t explain anything about Greeks themselves.
So what’s its usefulness? (of course, other than pleasing Greeks themselves)

The other theory says that that civilization was Albanian, and Greeks were just poor people. And it explains everything:

About Greeks:
1. It explains why Greeks became devout Christians since the beginnings of Christianity. They didn’t have anything theirs, culture or philosophers, to make resistance to this external influence, Christianity.
2. Furthermore they were materially poor, and Christianity appealed to the poor:
Don’t be sad. Your poverty will last only until the day you’ll die (by the time people were adults to the time they died, there weren’t many years then, so it didn’t seem like they had to wait long). Afterwards you’ll be the rich one. You will go in a place called heaven where you’ll have everything.
And those rich guys over there will be rich only until the day they die. Afterwards they will be the poor ones. They will go in a place called hell where they will have nothing. And as a bonus (because you hate and envy them so much) they will burn in a fire. And this inverted arrangement will last forever. Don’t envy them, you’re the lucky one.
In the words of a great man - Napoleon Bonaparte:
Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich.
3. Greeks have Orthodoxy for culture and identity, because their culture and identity began with it. Their antique history is written by their church. The same way, and for the same reasons, and using the same authority that the church convinced them that they are gonna live forever, as rich people in heaven, the church convinced them that they are also the greatest people ever.
4. Greek ancestors weren’t philosophers, people who make questions and prefer the truth, even if it is a bitter one, because the truth, unfortunately, is bitter in its end for us humans. They preferred to hear answers that pleased them, even if they were false. That’s why Greeks have been deeply religious people for the last 2000 years, and are still among the most religious people.
5. Greeks have always been people that deceive themselves in beautiful fake stories, and this is why they had the current economic crisis.
6. Greek ancestors weren’t warlike or especially vital people, and this is why Greeks have never been warlike or especially vital people.
7. But they let them a great, self pleasing story. Of course enforced with maps and sculptures created by church. This is why Greeks are so sensitive about their story, fearing that someone may “steal” their inheritance by merely adopting a name. That’s all they have, the story. They can’t repeat or extend that story by themselves. Their heroes of independence are Albanians. They adopted the Albanian costume (fustanella) because of them. The 25-th greatest Greek of All times is Albanian (born and grown up in Albania) and they claim Skanderbeg as well. They have of course a highly active church, involved in politics, that has the necessary corrupting power.

About Albanians:
1. Albanians were already rich, the name itself how they call themselves “ar-ber” means “made of gold”, so neither Christianity nor Islam had anything to offer to them. And at any time they have been described as irreligious materialist people.
2. Albanians inherited a distinguished culture, that enabled them to resist assimilation and function as a society, even though they’ve been occupied by almost any empire, some of them staying there for centuries. And they did this without the need of a religion, or better yet, in the presence of several antagonist religions.
3. Albanians had pagan Gods and they continue to follow pagan traditions.
4. Even in the context of a heavily manipulated history, certainly not in the favor of Albanians, by adding all Albanians that have lead an Empire and dividing by the small population of Albania, they come up as the nation with the highest number of empire leaders per population. Clearly this isn’t a nation of retarded villagers. How can stupid villagers lead empires that are not even theirs? Also the first university in Europe, where Roman emperors studied, is in the ancient city of Apolonia, right in the middle of Albania.
5. And Albanians clearly are the most vital and warlike people in the world.
6. Albanian girls can be extremely beautiful, worthy to make a war for them.


Albanians are today exactly how the descendants of that ancient population are supposed to be: highly vital, pagan, warlike, with the highest number of last empire leaders per population (Grand Vezires/Prime Ministers of the Ottoman Empire), without knowing why.
Greeks are nothing like the descendants of that civilizations were supposed to be, even knowing that they should and can be like that. But they are exactly how the descendants of a population that deceives itself in self-pleasing false stories are supposed to be.

The Greek version of the history won't prove any useful to predict the future. The Albanian version will. It predicts that the Greek nation, after the delusion of their economic success, will face two more delusions: that they won't live forever, and their ancestors weren't that great.

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  1. Scholarios's Avatar
    So- the gist of your point is a. Greeks became Christians, b. Albanians like to fight and form gangs, and c. Albanian girls are pretty.. this gives way to a. Modern Greeks are not related to Ancients and 2. Modern Albanians are heirs of Ancient Greeks.

    This may be a fun exercise for you on here- but I hope you don't plan on publishing anytime soon.
  2. el22's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Scholarios Chiotis
    So- the gist of your point is a. Greeks became Christians, b. Albanians like to fight and form gangs, and c. Albanian girls are pretty.. this gives way to a. Modern Greeks are not related to Ancients and 2. Modern Albanians are heirs of Ancient Greeks.

    This may be a fun exercise for you on here- but I hope you don't plan on publishing anytime soon.
    Well, it's (sort of) published already. Anyway, I like mental exercises, so for the sake of the exercise, why don't you try to give an answer to each of the questions I raised about the Greek version?
  3. Queen B's Avatar
    1. Why did they throw away the style of ‘making questions’ (philosophers) to adopt the style of ‘God knows’ (orthodoxy) ?
    Because things evolve. So are believes.
    Because earth didn't stay flat, because witches are not believed to be anymore,etc.
    2. How come they remember so much about ancient times, even gossips (how X called Y), and they don’t remember anything about the most important event in their history, which happened later? I’m referring to the moment of becoming Orthodox, because that’s what they have been for the last two millenniums and still are now.
    They are documented artifacts, that's why. We didn't invent them, there are artifacts that survived.
    3. How come, in the first and second century after Christ, by the time they have already “changed system”, they were creating statues (reproductions of lost originals) of their heroes of the “old system” and they weren’t documenting the events and new heroes that gave them the “new system” and liberated from the “old one”? As an analogy, imagine ex-communist countries building statues of their previous communist leaders in the first years after they throw away communism. The opposite happened, the existing statues were removed.
    The transition of Paganism to Orthodoxy, didn't became with the blink of an eye.
    To change beliefs, is not that easy. Never was.
    Plus, the statues weren't part of their religious beliefs, but from their arts, too.
    4. How come Albanians, a people of retarded villagers, had the highest number of Grand Vezires / Prime Ministers of the Ottoman Empire per population, higher than that of Turks themselves?

    Not that I care about Albanians, but you were Muslim, who did you expect to be a Vezir?
    5. How come Greeks, a people of great warriors and philosophers, were nothing more than part of the common herd?
    Since when Orthodoxs played a role in Ottoman, especially in ruling ?
    6. Why Greeks are so hysteric about names, mere words, to the point of blocking the population of an entire country to make progress in some political and economical objectives?
    Obviously because the name is part of OUR history, and they are not only trying to use our name, but everything that comes with it. History, land, etc.
    7. Why, despite the huge economic and politic support they had, they’ve been nothing more than an average country? By being a continuation of a highly vital population that distinguished itself, they should not only have been able to take care of themselves, but maybe even help others.
    What's the huge economic support?
    Only in the last 100 years we have been through 2 Balkan wars, 2 World wars, 1 Greco-Turkish war, 1 civil war and a junta.
    8. Why Greeks have the current economic crisis?
    For many reasons to list.
  4. el22's Avatar
    1. Because things evolve. So are believes.
    Greece takes pride for the times before Christianity, that's the time you consider your great civilization.
    You don't take pride for how you became, you take pride for how you were. So you didn't evolve, you regressed. Evolution is natural, and may not need much explanation. Regress needs explanation.
    2. They are documented artifacts, that's why. We didn't invent them, there are artifacts that survived.
    There are many such documented artifacts that portray heroes of the times before "evolution" happened, and these artifacts are created after "evolution", but there are no such artifacts portraying heroes that brought the "evolution".
    So the question still remains, why after evolution you were building statues of the heroes of the primitive system and not of the heroes that brought the evolved system?
    3. ... this may be merged with question 2.
    4. Not that I care about Albanians, but you were Muslim, who did you expect to be a Vezir?
    Albanians that became Muslim were Orthodox before Turks came. They were in the same conditions of Greeks.
    So the question still remains. What the descendants of great thinkers are supposed to do: show flexibility in their rapport with religion and become empire leaders, or stay at the bottom of the pyramid?
    5. Since when Orthodoxs played a role in Ottoman, especially in ruling ?
    ... related with 4.
    6. Obviously because the name is part of OUR history, and they are not only trying to use our name, but everything that comes with it. History, land, etc.
    Human history is full of stories of countries occupying other countries without assuming first the name of the occupied territories. I think there is an area in USA called Albany and something similar in Brittany to. It never worried us.
    Your sensitivity about history is quite unusual. Not just about the name of Macedonia. Recently when I was discussing about the scripts in a sculpture, some Greek would say "What is your agenda?". This isn't the behavior of culturally rich people that are open minded to review the story if necessary if it gets something wrong. This is the typical vigilance of religious believers about their religious story.
    7. You've been supported economically since day 1, and at any war there was someone there to help you.
    8. ...

    I may consider your effort as "dandelion did her part, she tried her best", but those questions are still unanswered.