Western Euro regions poorer than Romania (Bucharest excluded because it's too rich)

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Originally Posted by Nurzat

yes, Prague region is only 1.3 million. but Czechia is also overall doing best out of all Eastern Euro nations, and not only on purchase power. when you think also about the architecture, the tourism, proximity to Western Europe, climate etc, it makes Czechia and Prague in particular really attractive - several former schoolmates and workmates of mine, both boys and girls, live (and work) in Prague, some of them for many years, over a decade.

then, Bucharest-Ilfov region is 2.3 million, almost double, and already comparable to many other regions in the list in terms of population. you can order them by population in the last column on here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...regions_by_GDP

there's definitely some pockets of decent standard of living in Eastern Europe that could be attractive for Western expats as well, especially for cities that look nice in terms of architecture as well and are big enough to be vibrant and urban:
- Prague in Czech Rep.
- Warsaw, Krakow and Wroclaw in Poland
- Budapest in Hungary
- Vilnius in Lithuania
- Ljubljana in Slovenia
- Zagreb in Croatia
- Tallinn in Estonia
- Bratislava in Slovakia
- Riga in Latvia
- and lastly Bucharest in Romania, which is less attractive as a city and Romania is less developed as a country (in infrastructure) but Bucharest has a very good job market and Romania has interesting wild areas for tourism (just beware the bears)

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Prague is according to some estimates second most expensive city to live overall when salaries and living costs are considered, and constantly rising + horde of tourists, so not really a place average person with family should consider.

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Originally Posted by Damião de Góis

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country stats are relevant to a degree, especially for smaller countries, but then for the larger (multi-region) countries the regional stats are closer to reality in showing the economy dynamics of the place. if one for example would want to choose a place for business or for work or for longer term living.

now knowing how bad the situation is in Romania in some areas like education and public health or transport infrastructure, and seeing Romania above some places that at least to the eye look better, I wonder if Europe is on a downward trend... Romania only doing moderately well in the past decade went some 5 positions up, it means European countries aren't employing the best economic policies, maybe

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Originally Posted by Scarface F

Prague is according to some estimates second most expensive city to live overall when salaries and living costs are considered, and constantly rising + horde of tourists, so not really a place average person with family should consider.

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they must have some suburbs, I know several people, former colleagues and acquaintances, that work there and have been living there for a long time, probably will settle there forever.

the suburbs grow like crazy around Bucharest and the other big cities in Romania and you have everything you need there, no need to go to the city, especially if you work (mostly) from home, but not only

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Originally Posted by lei.talk

in which of these cities would a retired foreigner be least likely to become the prey of criminals

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Eastern Europe is safer in general, ironically, I think not because the East improved (it did a bit, though), but because the West saw a huge rise in criminality in the past decade.


current Crime index Europe, higher score is worse, the West in blue, the East in red:

Marseille 66
Paris 58
Athens 56
London 55
Brussels 55
Dublin 53
Barcelona 52
Milan 52
Minsk 52
Rome 50
Stockholm 46
Frankfurt 46
Berlin 44
Moscow 36
Oslo 34
Budapest 34
Lisbon 30
Vienna 30
Amsterdam 29
Bucharest 28
Madrid 27
Warsaw 27
Vilnius 27
Copenhagen 26
Prague 25
Zagreb 22
Ljubljana 21
Munich 21

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Originally Posted by Nurzat

current Crime index Europe, higher score is worse, the West in blue, the East in red:

Marseille 66
Paris 58
Athens 56
London 55
Brussels 55
Dublin 53
Barcelona 52
Milan 52
Minsk 52
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Oh, that infamous Belarussian mafia, my friend :eek:

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Originally Posted by Rumata

Oh, that infamous Belarussian mafia, my friend :eek:

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it says same score as Milan but I don't know, from the vlogs and city walks I've seen looks very nice, clean and full of families with kids, has a very nice vibe and I would like to visit someday. do you think the score is right? anyway overall Eastern Europe doing much better than Western Europe, while ex-Soviet Union tends to be a bit higher on violence ratings in general (I've seen charts for homicide and reported domestic violence for example, while I don't know about random street crime, didn't see any charts on that if there are any, I wasn't really interested in the topic in general)

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Originally Posted by Nurzat

it says same score as Milan but I don't know, from the vlogs and city walks I've seen looks very nice, clean and full of families with kids, has a very nice vibe and I would like to visit someday. do you think the score is right?

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No, I'm sure the score is absolutely wrong. If anything, I'd assume Belarussian cities safer than Russian ones even if they all were free of migrants. And now Moscow is full of migrants and still considered safe than Minsk which isn't. I guess it's a usual nonsense aiming to black wash a particular system.

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Originally Posted by Nurzat

they must have some suburbs, I know several people, former colleagues and acquaintances, that work there and have been living there for a long time, probably will settle there forever.

the suburbs grow like crazy around Bucharest and the other big cities in Romania and you have everything you need there, no need to go to the city, especially if you work (mostly) from home, but not only

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I think it's a Europe wide trend. Same in Zagreb, suburbs and satelite cities are booming and more and more people leave central citiy districts that are now largerly rentals for wealthier tourists and such (Airbnb etc).

Thing is that almost all decent eastern EU cities are becoming unaffordable for locals unless you own real estate. Rents are rising rapidly, and groceries and utilities are on same level as in most of western Europe if not more expensive. And since many of these cities are pretty and safe lots of western expats are moving in, working remote on western salaries or for their companies, driving princes/rents up and pushing out locals who move out.

Same happened with influx of Ukrianian refugees, most very wealthy and they drove up rents a lot.

Since at least the turn of the century, Inner London has become wealthier and more gentrified than Outer London, with the poor increasingly moving out to either the suburbs or other parts of Southeast England. On the other hand, most other cities follow the old trend of inner-city being poorer than outer suburbs and countryside.

@Scarface F: I am sure there are still far more Eastern Europeans in Western Europe than the other way round.

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Originally Posted by Tooting Carmen

@Scarface F: I am sure there are still far more Eastern Europeans in Western Europe than the other way round.

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How is that related to my post? I noticed you like to spin topics into random unrelated discussions.

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Originally Posted by Scarface F

How is that related to my post? I noticed you like to spin topics into random unrelated discussions.

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Because you mentioned growing number of Western Europeans moving to Eastern European cities and driving up the rents. While I am no Brexiteer, and I certainly don't share the view that Eastern European immigration here has been anything like the end of the world, all the same I doubt there are towns anywhere in Eastern Europe where 10-20% of the residents are Western Euros. (I.e. the reverse of places like Boston, Lincolnshire).