Juicy.
Yes, apparently there was a police investigation:
[YOUTUBE]wObjWdQBeA4[/YOUTUBE]
Was anyone else unshocked?
I am such a numb old bag these days.
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Juicy.
Yes, apparently there was a police investigation:
[YOUTUBE]wObjWdQBeA4[/YOUTUBE]
Was anyone else unshocked?
I am such a numb old bag these days.
Vietnam did that to some people. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Jamt
It's a truckload of Fail, that's for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by December
http://www.dailyramblings.com/blog/i...martinkove.jpgQuote:
Edit: Yeah, the american flag in the background and a blue uniform!! Blue karate SF2 style uniforms. Only in America, baby!!!
I'd grab a single leg put them on their head and choke them out with their blackbelt.:DQuote:
Originally Posted by December
Traditional Karate only works amongst those who agree to only use Karate.
I have never claimed to have invented adrenal stress scenario based training. In fact, in all my books and DVD’s I make point of correcting that misconception. The reason so many people have come to think of me as the ‘inventor” is that I was a large part of popularizing it and making it ‘known’ and I developed it into a comprehensive self-defense training program.
Look at this way, scenario based training images can be seen on 2000 year old frescos on of the Coliseum in Rome. So it is nothing new. Adrenal stress training was certainly not ‘invented’ in southern California in the 20th century either.
Another way of looking at and understanding this is to consider Buckmaster Fuller the great architect. Many attribute to him the development of the ‘Geodesic dome’. But that does not make sense as the geodesic is a natural geometric shape it can’t be ‘invented’ any more than one could say this person or that invented the triangle or square. Images of geodesic dome can even be found in ancient Arabic algebraic studies.
I am not personally aware of any ‘martial arts” or classical system that employs adrenal stress, scenario based training either. And with 40 years in the industry I believe I surely would have it was there.
Brazilian Jujitsu certainly does not. I t is true some great and celebrated Brazilian Jujitsu masters like Ricardo Murgel have come to take my training and then wanted us to teach people to instruct adrenal stress, scenario based training in Brazil.
We were happy and proud to do so too, and frankly to be asked alone. And so we did about 10 years ago. But I do not think it is then accurate to say that because a self-defense class involving adrenal stress scenario based training is taught in some of these BJJ schools now, that BJJ training itself involves adrenal stress, scenario based training as it does not..
I have worked with the Gracies and their cousin the Machadas and if these training methods were part of BJJ I would certainly know that.
But the much greater misconception I find is the very widespread concept that martial arts traing is self-defense training, and it simply is not.
Martial Arts is “art” and not ‘application’ really. Sure I have seen tremendously effective physical fighters come out of any number of styles of MA training, but they are the exceptions really.
It was mostly their personal attributes that they brought to their MA study from the begging that made them great fighters and not so much the style they studied.
But beyond this, MA concentrates almost entirely on the physical technique skill aspect of self-defense but the physical aspect, the technique aspect, I would put as perhaps on the third rung down on the ladder of importance in successfully defending oneself in the real world. The absolute most important skill is to know how the human predators operate so you can successfully avoid being chosen as their victim and avoid a physical fight in the fist place. Traditional martial arts does not address this reality at all.
Indeed any system of instruction that teaches only physical technique is not a self-defense traing program. This of course is one reason I do not confuse martial arts training with true self-defense training. Martial Arts has some value in self-defense, although most martial arts techniques from any system have no real place in a real fight, the core and simple ones do and you can learn them in an MA class.
Finally, another serious misconception about self-defense training is partly related to this idea that self-defense, or even actual real fighting is all about ‘techniques” or Physical technique skill. From this false premise it is understandable why the NHB athletic contest, such as The Vale De Tudo, UFC etc are somehow ‘models” or “evidence’ of whT techniques might work in real fight.
While I surely admire anyone that trains and performs well enough and has the heart to step into those rings, no athletic contest of nay type simulates or reflects the reality of an actual fight.
Think about it all the operant and decisive element of an actual fight are deliberately removed from the prize ring to isolate just one variable and that is best and who has the most effective technique skill. But this is seldom the decisive factor in an actual fight outside the prize ring.
Consider this alone. In a prize ring the two fighters are in an athletic contest with rules and it is a consensual contest. They know exactly when and where and who they will fight too. They know there will be “rounds” and referee. Beyond that they know there will only be the on opponent and he will not suddenly get help form third or fourth attacker. They know no weapons will be pulled and all the sharp objects or walls, fire hydrants, parked cars, lamp posts that so often end real fights in the real world are of course totlly absent in the prize ring, which is also padded and absolutely flat.
None of these important things are true in an actual fight. I would say for most people the most critical one is psychological too. Imagine you are in a bar or whatever and a person you never saw before looks at you and says “What the hell are you looking at shit face?”
Well I can assure you this is going to automatically engage the adrenal response in you on some level. That is exactly why the bully odes this too, that is starts out with the verbal abuse, he knows it will impair your ability to think or otherwise defense yourself.
Indeed, if you react properly, that is assertively and not with anger or fear and speak to him clearly and calmly and you nether insult or challenge him in any way, then most times he will not go any further with you and there will be no physical fight. Now learning and practicing doing that in an authentic adrenal stress driven scenario, this is a essential parts of any self-defense training.
Consequently f program instruction does not involve this traing, then how can it be seen or referred to as true self-defense training?
Good people I am 60yearsold now. I have had to fight for my life in the past and I have been cut, shot and attacked many times in my younger profession and service. Even in straight civilian life I have seen two fights end in a homicide that was I am sure not really intended by either the kier or the deceased. I have seen two persons killed by knife attacks.
It is not a game out there of any sort, it is not an athletic contest, people die, they are crippled for life and they go to prison for many years over real violence. No matter what you know, no matter what art you may have ‘mastered’ or think you have mastered, you too can be killed or worse out there. Anyone can be beaten and anyone can be killed.
Remember any real fight always has the potential of homicide. It isn’t like in the prize ring at all, in the real thing primitive ‘killer instinctual’ forces are released. You should develop your knowledge of the predator’s ways and how to avoid and de-escalate conflict. This will more likely keep you alive, off life support or crippled or blinded than any marital arts technique or system that you may ever learn.
Now be honest with yourself, what is your real objective and interest in martial arts or self-defense? Is it really to stay alive and whole, or deep down do you think ‘it will never happen to you’? If it is the last, then nothing you ever study in martial arts will ever likely be of any use to in an actual attack.
This is because the more decisive, the most decisive element is correct mind-set if it gets physical and thinking it won’t really happen to you makes it not possible to develop that functional combat mindset or or effective conflict avoidance skills either.
peace be with you all.
Peyton Quinn
PS: I found the video of the beating of the mentaly disturbed person was clealry a crime and his criminal assailant should be prosecuted at law.
The metally ill man said "I am not a fighter" it was not truly a consentual contest in my view at all but a criminal assault.
It seemed to me the meantaly ill man tried to stop the fight once it was apparent that the frustrated child in the white gi was attacking him physically.
Further there can be some genuine doubt if the mentally ill man was mentally competent to give his consent in any case. Just as a leaglly underage girl can not give her conset to sex and thus any such 'consnet" does not absolve an adult from the charge of statutaory rape.
The owner of the school, or the man present who apparently was the owner is guilty as well. This kind of "dangerious child" should not be allowed to teach anything and should be tried at law for allowing this to occur and actually assisting this crime.
If indeed the metally ill man died form the beating it was then a case of second degree murder. Peyton
Hi Peyton,
You branded it. It always existed in some greater or lesser form in every dojo that trains via full contact.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peyton
No one said it was. However, after Mitsuyo Maeda taught Carlos Gracie, the crucial importance of 'reality-based' training became infused and refined in 'Gracie Jiu-Jitsu'; and was then taught in SO.Cal., and subsequently hybridised into MMA which stresses the desensitisation of the flight/freeze response, as well as focusing the fight response with repeat stimulation via full contact scenarios.Quote:
Look at this way, scenario based training images can be seen on 2000 year old frescos on of the Coliseum in Rome. So it is nothing new. Adrenal stress training was certainly not ‘invented’ in southern California in the 20th century either.
Then you are taking a very limited tack on what adrenal stress scenario based training constitutes: Can I take the short drive to Miletich Fighting Systems and be put in a mock situation where somone is trying to carjack me? No, but I can be put in identical stess-inducing scenarios.Quote:
I am not personally aware of any ‘martial arts” or classical system that employs adrenal stress, scenario based training either. And with 40 years in the industry I believe I surely would have it was there.
:eek: You're trying to say that when Matt Hughes ripped Royce Gracie's rotator cuff to shreds and Royce didn't blink...that he wasn't controlling the fear response?Quote:
Brazilian Jujitsu certainly does not.
Then you are left with the burden of explicating the essential difference in the control of the fight/flight/freeze (fear) response - governed largely by the adrenal gland - in your vs. other training methods. I contest that one does not exist: The reaction is what it is and there are multiple ways to teach control of the response.Quote:
... But I do not think it is then accurate to say that because a self-defense class involving adrenal stress scenario based training is taught in some of these BJJ schools now, that BJJ training itself involves adrenal stress, scenario based training as it does not..
:eek:Now your trying to sell DVD's:D Good for you:thumbs up.Quote:
I have worked with the Gracies and their cousin the Machadas and if these training methods were part of BJJ I would certainly know that.
(A little) more seriously, you're taking waaaaayyyyy to hard a semantic tack on the thing: Keeping cool under surprise (a.k.a controlling the adrenal response to fear) is fundamental to Mixed Martial Arts. The amygdala, along with the hypothalamus and adrenal glands simply do not know the difference between some douchebag in a bar and a deeply sunk rear naked choke.
P.s. Great to have you aboard, but you might introduce yourself. :)
Suut, I am not familar with the forum yet so I apprecitte your indulgence with me here.
I must accept your suggestion that I am taking 'far to semantic tact' here too. I have been doing this special trainging so long I suppose I see it so very clearly as being distinct from all other types and training methodologies that perhaps I take that 'narrow track' you speak of.
Again while I have trained ring fighters yes, that is not my focus at all really. I do not consider anyone I have prepared for a ring fight as either training them for self-defense or providing them with adrenal stress conditioning. I am training them for the ring, for a specific atheltic contest and a few times a specific opponent in the ring too.
There is iitle relationship there to training somebody for real self-defense situations. No self-defense situation occurs in the prize ring after all.
Training ordinary people in self-defense is totally diffrent to me and this has always been my primary focus, almost an exclusive focus really. So I can get myopic here I suppose.
To me adrenal stress conditioning in the context of self-defense training means scenario based training involving an instuctor who acts and behaves and sepaks (woofs) in the senario with the student just as real human predators does. When this is doen authetically as we do I have seen good black belts and even a few experinced ring fighters choke up and freeze.
Yet a few of the pro fighters have the oppositte problem, they 'go off' prematurely under thstrwess of our scenrios. They come here with but one response to being disrepsected, and that is immediatte physical attack. When they eave they have learned and orcticed opitons, not they have 'choices'. To me that is true self-defense training.
These guys are now far less likely to go to prison or the morgue if confronted or even attacked. Now how can that not be anything but true self-defense training
So evryone does not get the same course on instruction here. Because ther needs are different and so is their previous expereince. In the same clas i may have woma who weighs 115 lbs and nver seen an act of violence except on tv or film along with a NAVY SEAL. Both of these peoplewill laeve here with far greater self-defsne skills and that means conflict avoidance skills as well as physical fighting skills than when they arrived.
This means that to me aslef-defsne program must involve foul and abusive and challenging language, body postures and the presentation of all the viseral cues of true hostile and potentialy assaultive person to the student.
I do not see that in BJJ, Karate, TKD, or any other classical martial art.
To me this scenario based training is so esential to self-defense training to the degree that if program does not involve it, to me it is not self defense training.
It may be very strong martial arts training though and even of the highest caliber. But in my view it is not self-defense training or adrenal stress conditioning in the context of self-defense training.
As I said I of course have real admiration for the dedciated ring fighters given they comnduct themselves honrably in the ring and resepct their opponent and most all do as I have observbed. , especially people of the caliber you mention. But the prize ring is not very relvant to me to self-defesne skills or training, or slef-defsne itslef outside of the prize ring.
I feel best and most valuable training ordinary people, be they black belts and school owners or housewives or even somewhat timid persons how to avoid being chosen as victim and to de-escalate potential conlfict and be asserttive in a way that discourages thier being assaulted.
The failing al that to throw that switch and go 110% kill until there is no more need for that. In my methodology though the people always discover their inner survival intincts and that is the key to everything.
Very honestly I know that one can not imagine or undertsand really what my course is like from reading my books or other's discussons on it or wathcing a DVD of the RMCAT fights or a TV show showing what we do.
It just has to be biochemically experienced and by that I mean that is until one does, steps out their with armored assilant and the woof etc, it you can not i feel truly be grasped it or its power to change people so very quickly. It is not easily understood or 'made real to them" unitl they do it themsleves.
No prize ring can do that. In fact, most prize ring pro fighters may not even need what I provide in the first place, but most people truly do and it goes beyond, and so far beyond self-defense training too.
It is journey of true self-discovery for them and then it improves and touches every aspect of their life totally apart form the conventional concepts of self-defense situations.
I ma not just in the self-defsne traing buisness, I see that as extraordinarily powerful vehickle for self-improvment training and real self-actuliazation.
Oh yes, as far as my trying to sell DVD's well ok, but not very much .To be dead frank I am more trying to get people into my RMCATtraining beacsue I have seen for years what it does for them..
On top of that I won't be doing it too many years longer. Thnaks for ther welocme and evryone do not hesitate to be very frank with me, somehow I do not think that going to be an isue though (:. I have the rhino hide and at my age I don't get too upset easily at all. I am not the least bit ashamed or embarresed to say that my main mission is to help people if I can. Peyton
By the way, what is the origin of the great poem you have on your posts?
I have seen something like it before I feel, but I can't remember where and that maybe was just the same idea by a different poet. I would like to know its author. Peyton
Thanks for the gracious and unpretentious response, Peyton - we could use more of that here.
First, let me start by saying that it was never my intention to minimise either yourself or what you do for people. Indeed, I have in the past and would again recommend that any and all interested people take a look at what you have to offer: It works.
The only issue I take is largely academic, and it is this: If Martial Arts (which would include modern MMA by definition) does not 'prepare' an individual for a surprise altercation outside of the ring; and the specific training that you provide does - it follows logically that if the individual you have trained were in a surprise altercation with a trained Mixed Martial Artist, that individual would be able, the overwhelming majority of the time, to dispatch with the Mixed Martial Artist.
With all due respect, there is no way I think or believe this to be true.
But, let me emphasize that it is not because I do not think your specific tack on controlling the fear response does not work.
It is from a book called "horse, wheel, language" that I was turned-on to by the forum member Liffrea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peyton
P.s. I really hope you stick around. You'd be an asset here.
Let me relate a true story about just such an encounter. I teach a course called Aikido for Self-Defense in Reno Nevada once a year.
They are wonderful people there at Aikdo of Reno. My course is largely about de-escaltion and adrenal stress conditioning, verbal boundary setting, the modus operandi of human predators and 'getting used' to verbal abuse (woofing) etc.
The phsycial part is very basic Aikido by using the enviornment as a weapon as the the 'finisher" if the situation dmeands it (as in he has weapon). That is. I.E tossing the attaker into a parked car,fire hydrant, a telephone pole, a wall, down a flight of stairs, or running them across the floor into some other object until you get there. etc. (physics of materials).
They have a good sense of humor there and good sense of 'commuity" too and so I will sometimes joke as i am instructing how to get the 'directional launch right' into the wall etc, and so I might say jokingly "In the true spirt of Aikido of course"
After this class one night I was eating at a resturant/ night club with Sensie Vic who studied for 10 years in Japan (and is Rokodan). We were talking about just the issue you raise.
First let me say that I in fundamental agreement with you. A real NHB fighter (I hope would avoid the street fight) but if forced I think he would deal with the attack in very short order too.
But what I am going to relate now is an actual case of what I try to constantly commuicate to everyone about the diffrence between an actual fight vs a ring contest.
There was a local Nevada man who was doing well in the NHB circuit. He had become a a 'local celebreity' and he was at this dining/night club dance place we were at.
Hw was In line to enter the club dance floor part, this NHB figher was waiting his turn like everyone else in the short line.
Another man in line recognized the NHB fighter and began what I call "woofing" on him.
Woofing is the predator's way of verbaly challenging and abuseing someone to see how they will react. It is also meant to 'prep' the potential victim for a possible physical attack by adrenalizing them as the human predators know this impairs the person's motor control and higher brain funtions such that their abilty to defend themselves is reduced.
But the physical attack may not go forward though depending on how the person being woofed on responds.If the aggresor sees their would be victim is not ratteled and not in denial of what is occurying either and that they are 'in control of themsleves', then the woofer will not as a rule attack them.
The NHB guy 'played the insults off' for awhile. But as the woofer got more beligerent and truly challenging and very graphicaly insulting, the NHB man got angerd and he suddenly dived for the verbaly abusive man's legs and took him to the ground and instantly had him in a solid figure four.
Then, a second man stepped out from nowhere and powerfully and fluidly kicked the NHB figher in the side of the head. It was total blindside move the NHB guy could never see coming and well excuted too. It was only the one kick he got off though as security was right there now and they restrained him at once.
But the NHB fighter never entered the prize ring again. His jaw was shattered and the his right orbital socket was fractured chageing the occular pressure in his eye and that permanently damaged his vision (though I believe and hope not as bad it might have been) .
My friend this is what I a constantly am trying to get across to people, it is not a game out there when its real. Peope get seriously hurt, permanently injured and killed and others go to prision.
The ambsuher never imagined he would spend years in prison anymore than the NHB fighter imagined this would be his last 'fight'.
I wish the NHB fighter had been more in control of himself as he could have avoided the entire incident. But he allowed the 'adrenal flush' of the guy's insults and tauenting to anger him such that he was goded into his physcial attack. I try to show people in my classes that "Either you are in control of yourself or someone else is!"
So I feel self-defense instruction must teach avoidance, de-escaltion and the modus operandi of predators and the students need to practice these skills in a realistc adrenal stress driven scenario based fashion.
THe Nevadan NHB figher had all the phsycial and technical skills he ever needed and more. But his self-defense skills were unfortunately and tajicaly under developed. THis is why he was hurt.
Peyton
After all those years of training, meditations etc bullshit all these oriental "martial" arts masters get their living shit beaten out of them by a guy who did boxing or wrestling for several months. Seen that, and not once (especially lulz when they try to use their Karate and whatever in football hool fights).
I did Graeco-Roman wrestling since i was 14, and box for about a year (quit cause it's bad for head :D). I've seen people come to gym and claim that they're 124902341234-dan black belts in SUPER DRAGON RYU style, and then are used to wipe the floor. All champs in MMA, UFC et cetera are wrestling/boxing hybrids, nothing else.
P.S. Fedor Emelianenko disapproves.
http://img.crazys.info/files/i/2008....x_1715c641.jpg
So true, nothing like the good ol' Boxing; I used to practice boxing for 2 years, had 3 amateur fights but I quit, not my thing, I won the fights tho :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Cail
Then I trained ValeTudo for about six months until I had a lesson in my elbow from a bad elbow lock. Im considering to get back tho.
With all my respect, these Karate-Double-Dragon-Kung-Fu-Wu-Shu farfetch'd crap doesnt work in a ring, even less in a real life combat situation.