Who put the tag "marranos and torquemada"? :D
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Who put the tag "marranos and torquemada"? :D
How did this thread get so off topic? :lol:
"Shrugs" It's because of the Jews that we are where we are. The eternal question "what did we do wrong during the war ?", "what did we do wrong in the Indies ?", "we were the big evil slave-traders" - all brought to you by Jewish propaganda and because of our "evil history" we now have to accept perversions and more and more and more immigrants.
It it true that more "Dutch" Jews died and that we had some casualty rates in Europe but the fact is: where could they go ? We're not like Denmark where Sweden was just across the water. We didn't have much wilderness or countryside so they could not be hidden. On top of that we had our perfect administration system and conscientious civil servants that unfortunately did their job.
Most of it is not Central-East European (Germanic or Slavic) but rather Southeast European
"Two major groups were identified by principal component, phylogenetic, and identity by descent (IBD) analysis: Middle Eastern Jews and European/Syrian Jews. The IBD segment sharing and the proximity of European Jews to each other and to southern European populations suggested similar origins for European Jewry and refuted large-scale genetic contributions of Central and Eastern European and Slavic populations to the formation of Ashkenazi Jewry. Rapid decay of IBD in Ashkenazi Jewish genomes was consistent with a severe bottleneck followed by large expansion, such as occurred with the so-called demographic miracle of population expansion from 50,000 people at the beginning of the 15th century to 5,000,000 people at the beginning of the 19th century. Thus, this study demonstrates that European/Syrian and Middle Eastern Jews represent a series of geographical isolates or clusters woven together by shared IBD genetic threads."
SOURCE : Gil Atzmon et al. Abraham's Children in the Genome Era: Major Jewish Diaspora Populations Comprise Distinct Genetic Clusters with Shared Middle Eastern Ancestry AJHG doi:10.1016/j.ajhg.2010.04.015
The study found close genetic ties between Ashkenazim and Northern Italians, French and Sardinians, as well as Syrian Jews. The authors suggest the genetic affinity "favors the idea of non-Semitic Mediterranean ancestry in the formation of the European/Syrian Jewish groups." The authors suggest that the core Ashkenazim population was formed from a mixture of Jews who migrated or were expelled from Israel, with those who converted during either Hellenic-Hasmonean or Greco-Roman times.
Thanks for that.
When I read 'converts', though, it strikes me as rather misleading. Thinking about the absorption of European elements into Jewry in the late Imperial period, I'm always reminded of Barates the merchant, and his 'wife' Regina, who lived at what would later become South Shields in County Durham... We know about them from the tombstone of the latter. She was a British woman, and had been Barates's slave before he freed her and married her. Her epitaph is in Latin, but also in Syrian, which is quite unusual for a Roman monument from near Hadrian's Wall.
Barates was from Palmyra, and not a Jew as such, but of the same region, filling a role that many Jews were doing at the time elsewhere in the Empire. I imagine lots of merchants of this stock will have been finding themselves 'wives' in this way, and Regina's willingness in the matter, as a freedwoman, is somewhat moot. We can thus picture to ourselves other women in similar circumstances, whose children were raised as Jews. The amount of 'conversion' here is not what it might at first seem.
(Anyway, I'm glad for yet another nail in the coffin of the idiotic Khazar 'theory')
This. (Ashkenazi) Jews are not all the same nor they treat each other the same way as much as people think. Not even during the Holocaust. A quick reference I can give can be located in Wladislaw Szpilman's memories "The Pianist" (the famous film was based off these memories).
At one point of the book Szpilman narrates how divided Jews were inside the of the ghetto. The ghetto was segregated between the wealthy Jews and the poor Jews, and those rich ones never gave a damn about the poor, common folk ones who were dying on the streets every day. He narrates how in the ghetto (specifically inside one cafe he worked in) he lost all faith in solidarity between Jews.
Quote from the book in Spanish (I could not find it in English and don't have time to translate right now, I apologize. But it's worth reading so maybe Google Translate can help):
It's an important distinction that should not be forgotten. ;)Quote:
El verdadero negocio del contrabando, el habitual, lo dirigían potentados como Kon y Heller; era mucho más sencillo y también más seguro. Bastaba con sobornar a los policías de guardia, los cuales cerraban los ojos en los momentos convenidos, para que cruzaran la puerta del gueto, ante sus narices y con su acuerdo tácito, verdaderas columnas de carros que transportaban alimentos, bebidas caras, manjares exquisitos, tabaco recién llegado de Grecia, y artículos de fantasía y cosméticos franceses.
En el Nowoczesna podía ver todos los días esos productos de contrabando. Era un café frecuentado por ricos, que acudían allí cargados de joyas de oro y diamantes. Entre taponazos de champaña, busconas de llamativo maquillaje ofrecían sus servicios a los especuladores, sentados ante
mesas repletas. Perdí dos ilusiones en ese café: mi fe en nuestra solidaridad general y en la musicalidad de los judíos.
En el exterior del Nowoczesna no se permitía que hubiera mendigos. Los ahuyentaban gruesos porteros armados con porras. A menudo llegaban rickshaws cargados de hombres y mujeres ataviados con costosas lanas en invierno, y con suntuosos sombreros de paja y sedas francesas en verano.
Antes de llegar a la zona protegida por las porras de los porteros, los propios clientes apartaban a la muchedumbre a bastonazos con expresión colérica. No daban limosna; en su opinión, la caridad sólo servía para desmoralizar a la gente. Quien trabajara tanto como ellos ganaría lo mismo que ellos: cualquiera podía hacerlo y si alguien no sabía cómo ganarse la vida era culpa suya.
Cuando por fin se sentaban a los veladores del amplio café, que sólo visitaban por negocios, comenzaban a quejarse de la dureza de los tiempos y la falta de solidaridad que mostraban los judíos estadounidenses. ¿Qué se creían? Aquí estaba muriendo gente por no tener nada que llevarse a la boca. Sucedían las cosas más espantosas y la prensa estadounidense no decía ni palabra, y los
banqueros del otro lado del charco no hacían nada por conseguir que Estados Unidos declarara la guerra a Alemania, aunque estaban en condiciones de presionar en ese sentido si así lo querían.
Nadie prestaba atención a mi música en el Nowoczesna. Cuanto más alto tocaba, más alto hablaban los asistentes mientras comían y bebían, y cada día mi público y yo competíamos por ver quién se imponía. En cierta ocasión un cliente incluso me envió a un camarero para decirme que dejara de tocar unos momentos, porque la música le impedía probar las monedas de veinte dólares de oro que acababa de adquirir a otro cliente. Entonces golpeó con suavidad las monedas contra el mármol de la mesa, las tomó con la punta de los dedos, las acercó hasta su oído y escuchó sin pestañear su tintineo, la única música que le interesaba. No toqué mucho tiempo allí. Por suerte, encontré trabajo en un café muy diferente de la calle Sienna al que iban intelectuales judíos para oírme tocar.