Are Croats Self-Hating Slavs? Why aren't Croats more proud of being Slavic?

[Jana]

I may be wrong but Stears's subclade which is a branch of L22 could be from the Lombards, they did settle in Pannonia for a while before heading west.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...ombard-Italian

Yes, it is Is your subclade Gothic ?

[Jana]

I read somewhere that they were mostly R1a-Z284, with I1-Z63 minority.

It sound like speculation, but who know. But Z284 isn't very spread outside Scandinavia except England/Scotland (maybe Norwegian vikings) . I1 is by far most typical Germanic haplogroup in eastern part of Europe.

[Dick]

Yes, it is Is your subclade Gothic ?

Most likely. I am I1-Z63

[Jana]

Most likely. I am I1-Z63

You even look northwest European

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Nobody knows for sure. Some claim he was ''Roman'', others he was Slavic (unspecified). Some claim he was Dalmatian by origin , from Zadar, that time cities were still more Romance than Slavic, especially clergy.
https://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pop_Dukljanin

I don't know how they were confused about it (i mean about Slavs and Goths). The language differentiation between Goths ans South Slavs was totally visible.

[Robocop]

We Croats do not hate Slavs or our identity, but the truth is, from the very start, means when Croats came here in 7th century, we had our own identity, let's not forget that Pope called our Dux Branimir in 9th century (trough letters and various stone writings); Brannimero Dux Croatorum e Sclavorum, which means; Duke of Croats AND Slavs.

This sentences (which were always repeated by Pope and Branimir himself) shows us that even 1100 years ago there was a separation in identity between Croats and Slavs (in general).

And for slavic ethnics this is VERY EARLY AGE in such distant past to have such strong identity.

Durin Branimir's reign, Croatian state/country received papal recognition as a state from Pope John VIII on 7th June 879. During his reign, Croatia retained its sovereignty from both Frankish and Byzantine rule and became de jure independent.

Also, in addition; Branimir was the one who choosed Vatican instead of Constantinople for Croats, because of him Croats are Catholics, means he choosed Catholicism instead Orthodox Christianity.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

We Croats do not hate Slavs or our identity, but the truth is, from the very start, means when Croats came here in 7th century, we had our own identity, let's not forget that Pope called our Dux Branimir in 9th century (trough letters and various stone writings); Brannimero Dux Croatorum e Sclavorum, which means; Duke of Croats AND Slavs.

This sentences (which were always repeated by Pope and Branimir himself) shows us that even 1100 years ago there was a separation in identity between Croats and Slavs (in general).

And for slavic ethnics this is VERY EARLY AGE in such distant past to have such strong identity.

Durin Branimir's reign, Croatian state/country received papal recognition as a state from Pope John VIII on 7th June 879. During his reign, Croatia retained its sovereignty from both Frankish and Byzantine rule and became de jure independent.

Also, in addition; Branimir was the one who choosed Vatican instead of Constantinople for Croats, because of him Croats are Catholics, means he choosed Catholicism instead Orthodox Christianity.

According to Ivan Đakon, Branimir was Slav himself.

https://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Branimir

[Robocop]

According to Ivan Đakon, Branimir was Slav himself.

https://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Branimir

I never said he wasnt Slavic, Im just sayin how awared he (and Pope) was and Croats of their identity even back then in 9th century.

Ofcourse that Croats are of slavic origin, but..., somethin is weird to me about that honestly, IMO Croats had somethin with Sarmatians without any doubt, and Greek tablet stones from Tanais (Crimea) are testament to that, where Greeks are practially mentioning Croats as part of Sarmatian tribes - 2nd century AD.

It was before Croatian migration to present day Poland.

Either those ancient Croats were Sarmatians who got slavicized in Poland or Slavs who were under high influence of Sarmatian culture, one thing is for sure IMO; Croats have connection to Sarmatians, one way or another, at least considering self-identity trough past, which shaped later (7th century till today) somewhat unique identity from other Slavs, which other Slavs may view as "self-hating", but it's not that IMO.

P.S. I already explained everythin in my thread Croatian Origin & History (in my signature).

[Vlatko Vukovic]

I never said he wasnt Slavic, Im just sayin how awared he (and Pope) was and Croats of their identity even back then in 9th century.

Ofcourse that Croats are of slavic origin, but..., somethin is weird to me about that honestly, IMO Croats had somethin with Sarmatians without any doubt, and Greek tablet stones from Tanais (Crimea) are testament to that, where Greeks are practially mentioning Croats as part of Sarmatian tribes - 2nd century AD.

It was before Croatian migration to present day Poland.

Either those ancient Croats were Sarmatians who got slavicized in Poland or Slavs who were under high influence of Sarmatian culture, one thing is for sure IMO; Croats have connection to Sarmatians, one way or another, at least considering self-identity trough past, which shaped later (7th century till today) somewhat unique identity from other Slavs, which other Slavs may view as "self-hating", but it's not that IMO.

P.S. I already explained everythin in my thread Croatian Origin & History (in my signature).

Serboi was as well Sarmatian tribe, mentioned.

But i don't know. Sarmatian loanwords in Slavic language are about 30, no more.