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Thread: The political stance of the Iranian Azerbaijani people; Iranian nationalism or Pan-Turkism?

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    Default The political stance of the Iranian Azerbaijani people; Iranian nationalism or Pan-Turkism?

    Azerbaijan is believed to be named after Atropates, a Persian satrap (governor) who ruled in Atropatene (modern Iranian Azerbaijan). The name Atropates means "protected by fire". An alternative theory is that Azerbaijan is the combination of two Persian words, "Āzar" meaning "(holy) fire" and "pāygān" meaning "the place of".
    Ancient residents of the area spoke the Ancient Azari language, which belonged to the Iranian branch of the Indo-European languages. In the 11th century A.D. with Seljukid conquests, Oghuz Turkic tribes started moving across the Iranian plateau into the Caucasus and Anatolia. The influx of the Oghuz and other Turkmen tribes was further accentuated by the Mongol invasion.[61] Here, the Oghuz tribes divided into various smaller groups, some of whom – mostly Sunni – moved to Anatolia (i.e., the Ottomans) and became settled, while others remained in the Caucasus region and later – due to the influence of the Safaviyya – eventually converted to the Shia branch of Islam. The latter were to keep the name "Turkmen" or "Turcoman" for a long time: from the 13th century onwards they gradually Turkified the Iranian-speaking populations of Azerbaijan, thus creating a new identity based on Shia and the use of Oghuz Turkic. Today, this Turkic-speaking population is known as Azerbaijani.
    In many references, Azerbaijanis are designated as a Turkic people, due to their Turkic language.[78] However, modern-day Azerbaijanis are believed to be primarily the descendants of the Caucasian Albanian and Iranian peoples who lived in the areas of the Caucasus and northern Iran, respectively, prior to Turkification. Historian Vladimir Minorsky writes that largely Iranian and Caucasian populations became Turkish-speaking:
    In the beginning of the 5th/11th century the Ghuzz hordes, first in smaller parties, and then in considerable numbers, under the Seljuqids occupied Azerbaijan. In consequence, the Iranian population of Azerbaijan and the adjacent parts of Transcaucasia became Turkophone while the characteristic features of Ādharbāyjānī Turkish, such as Persian intonations and disregard of the vocalic harmony, reflect the non-Turkish origin of the Turkicised population.
    Thus, centuries of Turkic migration and turkification of the region helped to formulate the contemporary Azerbaijani ethnic identity.
    From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azerbaijani_people


    There are many Turks who claim that not only Azeris from the republic, but, also Iranian Azeris are more inclined to their supposed "Turkic roots" than they are to Iran. I generally accept that notion for republican Azeribaijanis but, that idea going for the Iranian Azeris are simply delusional considering the current Ayatollah of Iran (the supreme leader) is of Azeri background. Turks(actually Azeri) like Yalquzfaq claim that Iranian Azeris want an independent republic from that of Iran. He says that there are simply no differences between the Azeris and continental Turks.

    What is the general idea regarding Iranian Azeris then?

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    My general impression is that the Azeris living in Azerbajian are only Turkicised linguistically and so are genetically identical to those living in Iran. If the Azeris want complete independence then they're welcome to it, but that doesn''t really seem to the case. Would you say that only pan Turkicists are the only ones pushing for independence?
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    Quote Originally Posted by barberis12 View Post
    My general impression is that the Azeris living in Azerbajian are only Turkicised linguistically and so are genetically identical to those living in Iran. If the Azeris want complete independence then they're welcome to it, but that doesn''t really seem to the case. Would you say that only pan Turkicists are the only ones pushing for independence?
    As I generally know, any sort of idea of independence is totally absent from the mindset of Iranian Azerbaijanis. In fact, they seem to be more nationalistic oriented than even their Persian counterparts and are looked upon more positively than are Sunni Kurds and Baloch. AND yes, Pan-Turkicists seem to be the major people announcing independence for Iranian Azeris, and they almost all reside in Turkey and the republic of Azerbaijan...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shah-Jehan View Post
    As I generally know, any sort of idea of independence is totally absent from the mindset of Iranian Azerbaijanis. In fact, they seem to be more nationalistic oriented than even their Persian counterparts and are looked upon more positively than are Sunni Kurds and Baloch. AND yes, Pan-Turkicists seem to be the major people announcing independence for Iranian Azeris, and they almost all reside in Turkey and the republic of Azerbaijan...
    That does seem to be an universal trend among long established minorities, they will tend to be so in order to assimilate at a faster rate into their host culture. Expanding upon this point it'd be very interesting to see the intermarriage figures for Azeris, because it appears a significant number of prominent ones anyway tend to be mixed,correct me if I'm wrong by all means. The current Ayatollah is only partially Azeri according to some sources, with his mother allegedly being an ethnic Iranian. Moreover, Lofti Zadeh,an Azeri American scientist has a Russian Jewish mother, but still identities as an Azeri, so it may be hard to ascertain whether or not they would still be considered ethnic Azeris . Pan Turkicists are in a state of delusion methinks, and I wouldn't really view them as having any potential in attaining their neo-Ottomanist wishes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Excalibur View Post
    Female members had better get scared and run for their heads because Gigolo's micropenis grew by another micrometre and is going to penetrate your uterus and is gonna tear off your falopian tubes, go Gigolo!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shah-Jehan View Post
    As I generally know, any sort of idea of independence is totally absent from the mindset of Iranian Azerbaijanis. In fact, they seem to be more nationalistic oriented than even their Persian counterparts and are looked upon more positively than are Sunni Kurds and Baloch. AND yes, Pan-Turkicists seem to be the major people announcing independence for Iranian Azeris, and they almost all reside in Turkey and the republic of Azerbaijan...
    That does seem to be an universal trend among long established minorities, they will tend to be so in order to assimilate at a faster rate into their host culture. Expanding upon this point it'd be very interesting to see the intermarriage figures for Azeris, because it appears a significant number of prominent ones anyway tend to be mixed,correct me if I'm wrong by all means. The current Ayatollah is only partially Azeri according to some sources, with his mother allegedly being an ethnic Iranian. Moreover, Lofti Zadeh,an Azeri American scientist has a Russian Jewish mother, but still identities as an Azeri, so it may be hard to ascertain whether or not they would still be considered ethnic Azeris . Pan Turkicists are in a state of delusion methinks, and I wouldn't really view them as having any potential in attaining their neo-Ottomanist wishes. Iranian Jews, Christians and Zoastrians aren't really viewed as being ethnic Iranians, based on several sources I've read, but this doesn't seem to be the case with Azeris, why is this do you think??
    Quote Originally Posted by Excalibur View Post
    Female members had better get scared and run for their heads because Gigolo's micropenis grew by another micrometre and is going to penetrate your uterus and is gonna tear off your falopian tubes, go Gigolo!

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    Pan-Turkism means the unification of different Turkic groups. If there is an Azerbaijani separatism in Iran, it would be for unification with Azerbaijan, where the same ethnic group as them live. Stop overusing "pan-Turkism" please.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hayalet View Post
    Pan-Turkism means the unification of different Turkic groups. If there is an Azerbaijani separatism in Iran, it would be for unification with Azerbaijan, where the same ethnic group as them live. Stop overusing "pan-Turkism" please.
    Yes, except people like Yalquzfaq say that all Azeris are infact Turks, so, in a way espousing a form of turkism

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shah-Jehan View Post
    Yes, except people like Yalquzfaq say that all Azeris are infact Turks, so, in a way espousing a form of turkism
    Of course all "Azeris" are Turks, but they are not really "Azeri"s. "Azeri", as an ethnonym, is a 20th century invention for the Oghuz Turks of Azerbaijan. It is better to say Azerbaijanis. They are somewhat analogous to the modern "Macedonian"s, who are actually Slavs of Macedonia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hayalet View Post
    Of course all "Azeris" are Turks, but they are not really "Azeri"s. "Azeri", as an ethnonym, is a 20th century invention for the Oghuz Turks of Azerbaijan. It is better to say Azerbaijanis. They are somewhat analogous to the modern "Macedonian"s, who are actually Slavs of Macedonia.
    well, much of their ethnogenesis occurred when local Iranic(Azari) people along with Caucasian Albanians were Turkified. They are different from Anatolian Turks as they are not Anatolian genetically or culturally, plus Shia Islam serves as a barrier, besides, those in Iran are not separatists at all...


    anyway...

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