Are Austrians an Ethnicity of Their Own or Just a Regional Subset of Germans?

[Musso]

The age old debate returns. Are Austrians Germans, or do Austrians constitute their separate ethnic group?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrians

Some arguments that Austrians are separate:

-Wide majority of Austrians see themselves as separate
-Austrians had their Independent Kingdom to the South, while Germans in the North were separate
- Following the founding of the nation-state German Empire in 1871 without Austria (Lesser Germany solution), and along with the events of World War II and Nazism, Austrians have developed their own distinct national identity and in the modern day do not consider themselves as "Germans".
-Austrians have more influence of Hungary/Balkans than Germans

Some arguments that Austrians are German
-During WWII many Austrians eagerly accepted being part of Hitler's Reich, were viewed as Germans
-Are very similar to Bavarians, though Bavarians are considered German
-Difference is mainly political, Austrians/Germans are the same ethnicity, just like Moldovans and Romanians

Make your arguments.

[Musso]

nobody?

[Corvus]

This thread already exists. It has 215 replies.

[Brighton]

Austrians were sometimes counted as part of Germans here in Chile

But also, Croats were counted as Austrian sometimes because they were part of their Empire.. so it was kind of confusing haha

[ioan assen]

I think they are Germans, but they are also with their specifics. I believe they are more mixed compared to Germans, because of the international character of the empire. In Vienna you can see that Hungarians, Czechs, Slovaks etc. have all left their genetic mark.

[JeanBaMac]

I think Austrians are Germans, because ethnicity is the same, language is the same, and dialect is closely related to Bavarian.

[Wolf3000]

As a Austrian and Styrian, with one great grandfather in the SS Leibstandarte, and one other Great grandfather in the Wehrmacht Heer,
I say undoudebtly that Austrians are Germans. The history does not lie.

But whether we are Germans by nationality is another debate.
Today we are no longer this and maybe for good reasons.
Ethnicity should not always unite states.

[morski]

One nation in two states.

[Musso]

As a Austrian and Styrian, with one great grandfather in the SS Leibstandarte, and one other Great grandfather in the Wehrmacht Heer,
I say undoudebtly that Austrians are Germans. The history does not lie.

But whether we are Germans by nationality is another debate.
Today we are no longer this and maybe for good reasons.
Ethnicity should not always unite states.

But the interesting thing is that genetically, Austrians don't cluster in the same exact place as German. Because of some Slavic/Hungarian/Balkanic influences, Austrians cluster a bit differently. Politically Austria has been separate from Germany for centuries, except during Nazi Germany of course (though so was many parts of Europe). That being said, Austrians/Bavarians share many more similarities than either of them with North Germans. I think the main thing is that Austria has been politically separate from Germany and Germans for so much time and with that created over time a separate National Identity. Austrians don't view themselves as part of the German identity but part of the Austrian identity.

[Ctwentysevenj]

Yes Austrians are Germans.