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Thread: Germanic tribes in Europe

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    Default Germanic tribes in Europe

    Ostrogoths (East Goths), division of the Goths, one of the most important groups of the Germans. According to their own unproven tradition, the ancestors of the Goths were the Gotar of S Sweden. By the 3d cent. A.D., the Goths settled in the region N of the Black Sea. They split into two divisions, their names reflecting the areas in which they settled; the Ostrogoths settled in Ukraine, while the Visigoths, or West Goths, moved further west of them. By c.375 the Huns conquered the Ostrogothic kingdom ruled by Ermanaric, which extended from the Dniester River, north and east to the headwaters of the Volga River. The Ostrogoths were subject to the Huns until the death (453) of Attila, when they settled in Pannonia (roughly modern Hungary) as allies of the Byzantine (East Roman) empire.

    http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictiona.../Eastern+Goths

    Gothic and Old Norse
    The Goths had a tradition of a Scandinavian origin. The main points cited by theories grouping North and East Germanic are:
    1) The evolution of the Proto-Germanic *-jj- and *-gg- into Gothic ddj (from an older Gothic ggj?) and ggw and Old Norse ggj and ggv ("Holtzmann's law"). For instance, the Old High German genitive of zwei (two) is zweio, which is distinct from Gothic twaddje and Old Norse tveggja. Whereas German has the form treu, Gothic has triggws and modern Swedish trygg.
    2) The existence of numerous inchoative verbs ending with -na, such as Gothic waknan and modern Swedish vakna.
    3) Gothic is important for the understanding of the evolution of Proto-Germanic into Old Norse. For instance, the final -n in North Germanic languages, such as navn and namn (name) is explained by referring to Gothic in which namo had its plural genitive namne. Sometimes, Gothic explains forms of words found on the oldest runestones, such as the Gothic word gudja (priest) which explains the word gudija found on the runestone of Nordhuglo in Norway.
    But there have also been theories grouping West and East Germanic. Today, the three groups are generally treated as derived independently from Proto-Germanic.

    http://www.indopedia.org/Gothic_language.html






    The Germanic tribes in the mid-1st century AD. The Vandals/Lugii are depicted in green, in the area of modern Poland.




    Groups identified as East Germanic tribes include:
    Bastarnae
    Burgundians
    Goths
    Thervings
    Greuthungs
    Visigoths
    Ostrogoths
    Crimean Goths
    Gepids
    Rugians
    Scirii
    Vandals
    Heruli

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    The Vandals were an East Germanic tribe that entered the late Roman Empire, and created a state in North Africa, centered on the city of Carthage. The Vandals probably gave their name to the province of Andalusia (originally, Vandalusia), in Spain, where they temporarily settled before pushing on to Africa.
    They were identified with Przeworsk culture in the 19th century. Controversial connections exist between the Vandals and another possibly Germanic or Celtic tribe, the Lugii (Lygier, Lugier or Lygians), some scientists believing that either Lugii was an earlier name of the Vandals, or the Vandals were part of the Lugian federation. Some suggested homelands are regions in Norway (Hallingdal) Sweden (Vendel) or Denmark (Vendsyssel) (these theories are based usually on similarity of names). The Vandals are assumed to have crossed the Baltic into what is today Poland somewhere in the 2nd century BC, and have settled in Silesia from around 120 BC. Their presence was recorded between the Oder and Vistula rivers in Germania in AD 98 by Tacitus and by later historians.
    The two subdivisions of the Vandals were the Silingi and the Hasdingi. The Silingi lived in an area recorded for centuries as Magna Germania, and later called Silesia. In the 2nd century, the Hasdingi, led by the kings Raus and Rapt (or Rhaus and Raptus) moved south, and first attacked the Romans in the lower Danube area, then made peace and settled in western Dacia (Romania) and Roman Hungary.
    In 400 or 401, possibly because of attacks by the Huns, the Vandals along with their Germanic and Sarmatian allies (namely, Sarmatian Alans and Germanic Suebians), started to move westward under king Godigisel. Some of the Silingi joined them later. Around this time, the Hasdingi had already been Christianized. Much like the Goths earlier, the Vandals adopted Arianism, a branch of Christianity that believed that Jesus Christ was not equal to God the Father, but a separate created being directly beneath God. This belief was in opposition to that of the main Christian group in the Roman Empire, which later grew into Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy.
    The Vandals travelled west along the Danube without much difficulty, but when they reached the Rhine, they met resistance from the Franks, who populated and controlled the Roman possessions in northern Gallia. 20,000 Vandals, including Godigisel himself, died in the resulting battle, but then with the help of the Alans they managed to defeat the Franks, and on December 31, 406 the Vandals crossed the Rhine to invade Gallia. Under Godigisel's son Gunderic, the Vandals plundered their way westward and southward through Gallia. In October 409 they crossed the Pyrenees mountain range into Spain. There they received land from the Romans: Galicia and (V)Andalusia, while the Alans got Portugal and the region around Cartagena. Still, the Suebi, who also controlled part of Galicia, and the Visigoths, who invaded Spain before receiving lands in southern France, kept causing trouble for Vandals and Alans.
    Gunderic's half brother Geiseric started building a Vandal fleet. In 429, after becoming king, Geiseric crossed the Strait of Gibraltar and moved east toward Carthage. In 435 the Romans granted them some territory in Northern Africa, yet in 439 Carthage fell to the Vandals. Gaiseric then built the Kingdom of the Vandals and Alans into a powerful state, and conquered Sicily, Sardinia, Corsica and the Balearic Islands. In 455, the Vandals took Rome and plundered the city for two weeks starting June 2. They departed with countless valuables, spoils of the Temple in Jerusalem brought to Rome by Titus, and the Empress Eudoxia and her daughters Eudocia and Placidia. By 468 they destroyed an enormous Byzantine fleet sent against them.
    At Geiseric's death in 477, his son Huneric became king. Huneric's reign was mostly notable for its religious persecutions of the Manichaeans and Catholics. Gunthamund (484-496) sought internal peace with the Catholics. Externally, the Vandal power had been declining since Geiseric's death, and Gunthamund lost large parts of Sicily to the Ostrogoths, and had to withstand increasing pressure from the Moors.
    Hilderic (523–530) was the most Catholic-friendly of the Vandal kings. However, he had little interest in war, and left it to a family member, Hoamer. When Hoamer suffered a defeat against the Moors, the Arian faction within the royal family led a revolt, and Gelimer (530–533) became king. Hilderic, Hoamer and their relatives were thrown into prison.
    The Byzantine emperor Justinian I declared war on the Vandals. The action was led by Belisarius. Having heard that the greatest part of the Vandal fleet was fighting an uprising in Sardinia, he decided to act quickly, and landed on Tunisian soil, then marched on to Carthage. In the late summer of 533, King Gelimer met Belisarius ten miles south of Carthage at Ad Decimium. The Vandals were winning the battle at first, but when Gelimer's nephew Gibamund fell in battle, the Vandals lost heart and fled. Belisarius quickly took Carthage while the surviving Vandals fought on.
    On December 15, 533, Gelimer and Belisarius clashed again at Ticameron, some 20 miles from Carthage. Again, the Vandals fought well but broke, this time when Gelimer's brother Tzazo fell in battle. Belisarius quickly advanced to Hippo, second city of the Vandal Kingdom, and in 534 Gelimer surrendered to the Roman conqueror, ending the Kingdom of the Vandals.
    Differences between Arianic Vandals and Catholics or Donatists was a constant source of tensions in their African state. Most Vandal kings, except Hilderic, more or less persecuted Catholics. Although Catholicism was rarely officially forbidden (the last months of Huneric's reign being an exception), they were forbidden from making converts among the Vandals, and life was generally difficult for the Catholic clergy.
    In medieval times, there was some popular belief that Vandals were ancestors of Poles. That belief originated probably because of two facts: first, confusion of the Venedes with Vandals and secondly, because both Venedes and Vandals in ancient times lived in areas later settled by Poles. In 796 in the Annales Alamanici one can find an excerpt saying Pipinus ... perrexit in regionem Wandalorum, et ipsi Wandali venerunt obvium ("Pippen went to regions of Vandals and the Vandals came to meet him"). In Annales Sangallenses the same raid (however put in 795 is summarised in one short message Wandali conquisiti sunt ("Vandals were destroyed"). This means that early medieval writers gave the name of Vandals to Avars.
    The Goth Theodoric the Great, king of the Ostrogoths and regent of the Visigoths was allied by marriage with the Vandals and Burgundians, and the Franks under Clovis I.
    [edit]
    List of Kings
    Godigisel (-407)
    Gunderic (407-428)
    Geiseric (428-477)
    Huneric (477-484)
    Gunthamund (484-496)
    Thrasamund (496-523)
    Hilderic (523-530)
    Gelimer (530-534)

    http://www.indopedia.org/Vandals.html



    The Vandal kingdom, along with the other Germanic kingdoms in the West, ca. 526



    The Vandals' traditional reputation: a coloured steel engraving of the Sack of Rome (455) by Heinrich Leutemann (1824–1904), c 1860–80

    Vandals quickly took Carthage decrepit civilization, which emits the spirit, and disappeared. Kabila is considered descendants of the Vandals, to some extent retained its northern nature, the more that some habits acquired as a result of the decline, put them on a par with the neighboring tribes, and continued to maintain a balance between the ethnic elements from which they are composed. But on closer examination it appears that they have very little Teutonic, but appeared very similar to the local races.
    (A.Gobino)

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    A germanic people called Gepids arrived to Transylvania in the 3rd century







    Southeastern Europe, c. 550 AD, showing the Gepid Kingdom and its neighbors.



    The Gepids were first mentioned around 260 CE, when they participated with the Goths in an invasion in Dacia, where they were settled in Jordanes' time, the mid 6th century. Their early origins are reported in Jordanes' Origins and Deeds of the Goths, where he claims that their name derives from their later and slower migration from Scandinavia:
    You surely remember that in the beginning I said the Goths went forth from the bosom of the island of Scandza with Berig, their king, sailing in only three ships toward the hither shore of Ocean, namely to Gothiscandza. One of these three ships proved to be slower than the others, as is usually the case, and thus is said to have given the tribe their name, for in their language gepanta means slow.. (xvii.94-95)


    Southeastern Europe, c. 550 AD, showing the Gepid Kingdom and its neighbors.
    The first settlement of the Gepids were at the mouth of the Vistula River, which runs south to north from the Polish Carpathian mountains.
    These Gepidae were then smitten by envy while they dwelt in the province of Spesis on an island surrounded by the shallow waters of the Vistula. This island they called, in the speech of their fathers, Gepedoios (perhaps Gibiđ-aujos, meaning "Gepid waterlands" ); but it is now inhabited by the race of the Vividarii, since the Gepidae themselves have moved to better lands.
    Their first named king, Fastida, stirred up his quiet people to enlarge their boundaries by war and overwhelmed the Burgundians, almost annihilating them in the 4th century, then fruitlessly demanded of the Goths a portion of their territory, a demand which the Goths successfully repulsed in battle. Like the Goths, the Gepids were converted to Arian Christianity.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gepids

    The Gepids during and after the Hun Period


    The Gepids were becoming powerful and prosperous even under Hun rule. This is amply demonstrated by archaeological finds on the territory covered by Gepidia after the withdrawal north of the Körös River; the finds are of a richness that is exceptional in the Carpathian Basin, and even in Europe. Under Ardaric's reign, there emerged a new military aristocracy that built manor houses and obviously drew considerable profit from fighting in the Hun overlords' wars. Its members were buried alone, in secrecy, near their manor houses. Men's graves are few, for many of the military leaders must have died on the battlefields and in the revolt against the Huns. The grave found at Érmihályfalva held an eminent aristocrat; the period of his inhumation is revealed by the coin in his mouth, a Hun-period copy, dating from around 450, of Theodosius II's gold solidus originally minted at Thessaloniki in 443. The deceased himself is a model of the 'sword-wielding furious Gepids' of the Hun period: he was buried with not one, but two swords, a long double-edged sword in a silver-mounted scabbard, and a 52-centimetre long Hun dagger in a sheath made of wood and leather. The belt of the long sword was decorated with a large amber disc, a common amulet in that century, and his shield had an iron boss to protect the warrior's hand. Of the same period is grave no. 1 at Gencs-Akasztódomb, which held a dagger of Hun origin as well as a costly glass beaker. The solidi of Theodosius II, minted in 429–30, serve to date many graves (Nyírbátor, Bikács, Szilágysomlyó, Lonkafalva). Their Hun replicas, minted by order of Attila around 450, do the same for other graves (Végardó, Érmihályfalva, Nagydoba-Liget, Kápolnokmonostor). The latter are contemporary with a solidus (found at Csög, Kendilóna) from a late minting under Valentinian III (425–455).

    An even richer source are the isolated graves of Gepidic noblewomen of the Hun period, whose large number may be a consequence of the reduced area of settlement during Hun rule. The deceased were generally garbed in typically 'new rich' style. The Gepidic noblewomen were covered in jewels: heavy, cast-silver fibulae, large and unshapely, on their shoulders, a collection of bead necklaces, several silver bracelets, the customary large gold earrings, and one or two large silver clasps on their clothes and belts. The 'new Hun fashion article,' a metallic mirror with radial decoration on the back, is present in virtually every grave, while the provisions for the afterlife were stored in 'Hun' jugs with ears, often accompanied by a costly, decorated glass (Mád, Tiszalök, Balsa, Székely, Vencsellő, Barabás [formerly Mezőkaszony], Szamostatárfalva, Érdengeleg). Few graves have been found of less wealthy propertied women from the Hun period; one of these, grave no. 2 at Gencs-Akasztódomb, yielded a bronze earring, a small silver fibula, and also big glass and amber beads. The common burial grounds of small farming settlements, each consisting of a few graves, and dating from the post-Hun period, have been discovered at Rétközberencs, Bere, Körösgyéres, and Piskolt, where the finds include double-sided combs. There were probably similar graveyards at Bere-Szőlőhegy and Érendréd-Malomdomb (where earrings ending in a solid polyhedric button and a vessel with smoothed ornaments were found). In another cemetery of this type, at Érmihályfalva, the local, male leader bore a dagger of Hun origin, much like the military leaders noted earlier, while the women sported the prevailing Hun fashion: earrings, ending in solid polyhedric buttons, that imitated those of noblewomen, which had cloisonné and gold decoration, as well as the double-sided fine-tooth comb. It was around this time that the Gepids generally adopted a new custom, one that attests to the attraction of Arian Christianity: they began to bury their dead not on a north-south, but on a west-east axis. Among the graveyards of this period that have been discovered so far, the largest and longest-used is the 2nd burial site at Ártánd; however, there are numerous contemporary graves, sites, and burial objects (such as the fine-tooth combs from Szalacs and Bihardiószeg). The site at Bihar includes a settlement that consisted of sunken floor dwellings (with traces of a combmaker's bonecutting workshop in one of them), their roofs held up by two posts, as well as of authentic Germanic houses with many posts; and several graves, one of which yielded a pair of bronze earrings ending in a solid polyhedric button. Other graveyards from this period include those at Érkörtvélyes-Ligethegy and Nagyvárad-Szalkaterasz (which also has an earlier, Hun grave whose occupant bore a sword, a dagger, and arrows), yielding jugs and pots with superb smoothed decoration, channelled jars and mugs; and at Biharpüspöki and Nagyvárad-Micskepuszta, the latter yielding a 5th-century glass cup. The previously mentioned graves, containing weapons, at Érkörtvélyes-Égető-hegy and Szilágysomlyó may also date from this period.

    The expansion of Gepidic settlements after Ardaric's victory can be fully assessed only with the help of these Gepidic archaeological traces from the Hun period, for it is precisely this culture, based in the Upper Tisza region, that the Gepids took to their new settlements. They did so in at least two waves. Graves of noblewomen, who wore large silver-plated fibulae and jewelled gold earrings, and dating from the immediate post-victory period, appear in the Sebes-Körös and Fehér-Körös zones (Gyulavári, Nagyvárad), in the region of the Maros and the Aranka (Perjámos, Arad-Mikelaka), and even in the Temes region (Őszény, where gold earrings with polyhedral ornaments were found). They are distinguished from earlier finds by late-antique gold beads (Perjámos), which came into the Gepids' possession when the alliance with Byzantium facilitated a revival of trade.

    The occupation of lands in Transylvania by Gepidic aristocrats of the Hun period is attested by similar grave finds that yielded several earrings with cloisonné ornamental buttons (Bánffyhunyad, Medgyes, Kisselyk, and what were probably two graves in Hunyad county). The period of Gepidic settlement is indicated by the late gold coins of Theodosius II, minted between 443 and 450. The Huns had received these as tribute, and passed on a few to their Gepidic allies; but while such coins are found only rarely in Hun graves, the offering of a funeral obolus was typical of the Gepids. Coins of this type have been found at Nagybánya-Asszonypataka, Válaszút, Kolozsvár-Szamoshíd, Hidalmás, Ajtony, Felsőidecs, Kerelőszentpál, Radnót (minting of 443 at Thessaloniki), Mese, Gyulafehérvár, Hunyad-Dobra in the Maros valley (discovered in {1-192.} 1811), and as far as Orsova on the Lower Danube. An even more precise dating is given by the gold solidi of Leo I (457–474), found, mostly in graves, at Kelnek, Uzdiszentgyörgy, and Torda (three bronze or gold coins). Also from this period is a rare gold coin, found at Biharszentandrás, of the Western Roman Emperor Libius Severus (461–465); it was probably brought back from the Roman empire by a Gepidic mercenary.

    However, part of the Gepidic nobility did not leave the more secure 'old homeland' until the conquest of the Sirmia — Pannonia Sirmiensis — in 473. That was where the colourful new, post-Hun culture emerged, a culture that would then spread to the Gepids' older areas of settlement. This was a culture of conquerors, of those who shared in the annual tribute of one hundred pounds (almost 32 kg) of Byzantine gold. This second wave of settlement is represented by the rich grave find (silver fibulae and an elaborately- wrought gold ring with a cloisonné head) in the Temes region, at the brick factory of Nagyszentmiklós-Keresztúr-puszta.

    The Kingdom of the Gepids

    In the Battle of Mauriacum (formerly referred to in error as Catalaunum), 'also present, at the head of an immense army of Gepids, was Ardaric, the most famous king, who, thanks to his loyalty to Attila, could participate in the latter's councils. Attila, who possessed sharp judgement, preferred him to the other vassal kings; Ardaric had earned renown for his loyalty and sound counsel'. Jordanes drew for this characterization from Cassiodorus' Gothic history, which was based in turn on data furnished by Priskos, who lived at the time of these events; to be sure, the Goths' historiographers had clumsily interpolated that the Ostrogothic King Valamir was also Attila's most 'preferred' vassal.

    There is no doubt that, in 451, Ardaric — together with his Gepids — already stood 'at the Lord's right hand'. Their rise stemmed from their very defeat. The Huns had defeated and killed the royal family, whose authority had been shared with the tribal chiefs' council, as well as the most of the nobility, but they allowed ordinary Gepids to remain on their land in the valleys of the Upper Tisza, Bodrog, Ér, Kraszna, and Szamos. When the Huns' centre of power shifted to the Hungarian Plain, the Gepids were left as the sole significant compact group within the Hun sphere east of the Danube. With no other potential allies in the vicinity, the dominant Huns soon came to rely economically, politically, and militarily on the Gepids. The new king imposed on the Gepids, Ardaric, did not become the 'chief administrator' of a clan-based society, or the 'chairman' of the tribal chiefs' council, but a ruler whose power over his people was as absolute as that exercised by Attila over the notables and general population of his empire. This unlimited power was based neither on election nor on ascendance; it was simply bestowed upon Ardaric — and upon other vassal monarchs — by Attila and his Huns. The clever Ardaric was one of those who turned this power to their own people's advantage, a fact confirmed by the Gepidic finds from the Hun period.

    When Attila died unexpectedly in 453, Ardaric and his army, which had gained experience in the campaigns against the two Roman empires, showed themselves to be masters of the situation. Ardaric saw his power imperilled by Attila's sons, who vied for the succession and fought for shares of the father's domain. Ardaric was the only vassal with the means to challenge Attila's son Ellák, and he drew in his wake the Svebs and the Rugians from the upper reaches of the Danube, as well as Edika's Skiris. The struggle was waged mainly by the 'furious sword-wielding Gepids (ense furens Gepida), and in the battle by the Nedao River, in 455, it was 'Ardaric's sword' (Ardarici gladius) that earned a decisive victory.

    Following their victory, 'the Gepids forcibly occupied the Huns' land and conquered the entire Dacian territory. From this position of strength, they issued a demand to the Eastern Roman empire for no more than a friendly pact (of alliance), peace, and an annuity'.[10] The demands were granted, and, apart from two troubled decades in the middle of the 6th century, the Gepids served as external allies of the Eastern Roman empire.

    Thus Dacia came under Gepidic domination as early as 455, and not, as archaeologists once believed thanks to a superficial assessment of their finds, many decades later. This is clearly demonstrated not only by the account drawn from Priskos but also by the archaeological finds. The archaeologists had concluded erroneously that in Dacia, only the inner Transylvanian region that happened to yield relevant finds had been occupied by the Gepids. Yet the original written sources are unambiguous: the Gepids' military domination extended along the Lower Danube to the mouth of the Olt, and therefore it must have encompassed all of the former provinces of Dacia, including Dacia Inferior. According both to historical records and to Hun archaeological finds, Oltenia had been a 'Hun settlement area'. The account based on data from the contemporary Cassiodorus clearly defines the Gepidic borders in the first third of the 6th century: 'Scythia prima ab occidente gens residet Gepidarum, que magnis opinatisque ambitur fluminibus. Nam Tisia per aquilonem eius chorumque discurrit; ab africo vero magnus ipse Danubius, et ab eoo Flutausis secat, ...intorsis illis Dacia est, ad coronae speciem arduis Alpibus emunita'. In other words, the Gepidic people live in a region west of Scythia Minor (Dobrudja), bordered by great and famous rivers, in the north by the Tisza, in the south by the great Danube itself, and in the east by the Olt ... that flows into the Danube. Beyond these, protected by the high Alps, lies 'Dacia' — which in this formulation does not coincide with the territory enclosed by the Gepids' political frontiers. The same boundaries are noted by the contemporary Jordanes: 'Daciam ... quam nunc Gepidarum populi possidere noscuntur, quae patria in conspectu Moesiae sita trans Danubium coronae montium cinguntur ... haec Gotia, quam Daciam appelatur maiorem, quae nunc, ut diximus, Gepidia dicitur ... a meridiae Danubii terminabant'. Thus the Gepids' present-day country lies opposite Moesia, on the other side of the Danube. The country whose name was once Dacia, and later Gotia, is now called Gepidia and is bordered in the south by the Danube.

    The Gepids must have exercised firm control over the borderline formed by the Danube between the Tisza and the Olt in order to be able to wage a successful war in 539 in the Lower Danubian region. Allied against Byzantium with the Frankish King Theudepert, the Gepids crossed the Danube and (while their allies attacked the Byzantines in Italy) won a bloody and devastating victory over the Byzantine army of magister militum Calluc, killing the latter in the process. They thereupon occupied 'almost all the Dacian towns'. This refers to the Eastern Roman 'Dacia ripensis', which stretched along the right bank of the Danube from the Iron Gates to the mouth of the Olt; but the Moesian Singidunum (Belgrade and its surroundings) also came under Gepidic rule. This was the occasion when, for the first time, the Gepids acquired a sizeable 'enslaved Roman population'. Over some ten years, the Gepids would facilitate the movement of Slavs across the Lower Danube, and in 550 they helped the Kutrigurs to attack Thrace. The Gepids surrendered former Roman territories south of the Danube only after being defeated by a Byzantine-Langobardic alliance in 551.

    Dacia Inferior (Wallachia, Oltenia) was a military border zone, and in keeping with their settlement pattern, few if any Gepids made their homes in this region. However, the fact that only a bare trace has been found of the Gepids' passage (a 6th-century stamped potsherd, at Şimnic near Craiova) owes more to the insufficiency or bias of archaeological research. Jewels, weapons, and vessels of the Gepidic occupiers have been discovered on both sides of the Lower Danube, at Orsova (a grave containing fibulae) and other sites, including Singidunum, Viminacium, Ratiaria, and Augustae. The scarcity of archaeological finds reinforces the hypothesis that during their rule, the Gepids did not allow a significant native population to remain in the area enclosed by the Olt and the Lower Danube. The Gepidic 'Olt limes' was broken through in the early 560s by the Slavs or, at the latest, in 567–58 by the Avars.

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    Nordic Motörhead Remember Me's Avatar
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    Some of those "tribes" were multiethnic.

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    Senior Member Amarantine's Avatar
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    What about Saxons, they were also germanic tribe, and they were present in SouthEast Europe?
    veni, vidi, dormivi


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    Comitate The Black Prince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amarantine View Post
    What about Saxons, they were also germanic tribe, and they were present in SouthEast Europe?
    The Saxons were a Germanic tribe.. however the term 'Saxon' concerning its geographic, social or practical use has had, throughout history, many different definitions.

    f.i. in origin: speaking of the period of the Late Roman Empire the Saxons were one of the many Germanic tribes who inhabited Schleswig-Holstein.
    While the Britons referred to every Germanic that came to Britian as 'Saxon'(Sais), probably because of the habit of those Germanics to wear long knifes (Saex/Seax/Sax weapon).

    Another example is that on the continent, within time, the Saxon dukes and princes enlarged the terrain of their duchy/princedom/electorate and also lost some terrain. The inhabitants of these duchy's and principalities were also called Saxon. Nowadays Germany has states as Saxony, Saxon-Anhalt and Lower Saxony. The last is the one who roughly shares the same area as those of the Post-Roman period Saxons, the others do not really.

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    Quote Originally Posted by National_Nord View Post

    The Germanic tribes in the mid-1st century AD. The Vandals/Lugii are depicted in green, in the area of modern Poland.


    Groups identified as East Germanic tribes include:
    Bastarnae
    Burgundians
    Goths
    Thervings
    Greuthungs
    Visigoths
    Ostrogoths

    Crimean Goths
    Gepids
    Rugians
    Scirii
    Vandals
    Heruli
    Aren't those all just the same people? Just different names?

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