Did Mesolithic Europeans have dark skin, dark hair, and blue eyes?

[Fire Haired]

Blogen, we don't know how much an effect the so called light skin genes had. The reason they say he probably had darker skin than Stuttgart is because of those so called light skin genes. Nothing is for sure right now, if blue eyes were popular in Mesolithic Europe they didn't have dark skin.

[Fire Haired]

Don't areas in the North East Europe show highly Mesolithic in genetics? But also are high in blue eyes & light hair. Perhaps it's difficult to compare the evolution of a country & sexual preference over thousands of years, to back then. It could have been mixed & You could look into a Population bottleneck. At what age though?

Light eyes, hair, and skin show very strong correlation to Mesolithic ancestry. That is why it is no surprise the blue eye mutation has been found in 2/2 Mesolithic European samples. Who knows what the pigmentation all of them had and a lot can change in 8,000 years. It could be that most Mesolithic ancestry today comes from light Russian hunter gatherers who's descendants spread Indo European and Uralic langauges.

[Graham]

I know that the Gedmatch eye predictor isn't 100% accurate(still good). But it would be fun to stick the samples through it.

[Jackson]

Since it was reported by a researcher that La Brana-1 had the same gene for blue eyes as modern blue eyed north Europeans, and now we know Loschbour had this so called blue eye gene, I think they would have also had pale skin. Either they didn't have blue eyes and had dark skin or had blue eyes and light skin. Who would argue that the blue eye gene in Mesolithic Europeans is not connected to the same gene that takes up a majority in so many parts of Europe today, not surprisingly in areas with the most Mesolithic ancestry. I think Loschbour had pale skin, black hair, and blue eyes. But I still consider the possibility he had very dark skin.

You will have to ask an expert on how genes and all that other stuff works. The light genes are mutations of genes that cause dark pigmentation, that's my interpretation. East Asians have the ancestral "Dark skin alleles" in those SNP's I name in this thread but they have light skin because there are other mutations(I think unknown) that cause their pale skin. Loschbour had the 'dark skin alleles" in all three of those SNP's that is why people are saying he had dark skin. Whoever said he was dark like Africans(sub Saharan or north).

If Loschbour truly had dark skin it would be at the darkest probably like southern Arabs or like north Africans. I made the point so many times that those so called white skin genes are about as popular in west asia as in Europe. West Asians are basically brownish skinned like Algerians and Arabs even though they have a low amount of these genes. So I think the effect they make on skin color is overrated and there are other factors to the very light skin in Europeans, especially the ones with high amounts of Mesolithic ancestry.

The Paper on La Brana-1(7,000 year old hunter gatherer northern Spain) should be out soon. It was reported by CLF(possible a researcher from the study on La Brana-1) on Eupedia that he had Y DNA C6-V20. A haplogroup that has been hypothesized as being descended from "Cro magnon" aka Upper Palaeolithic Europeans. He was reported by the real CLF as having that blue eye gene, we will probably learn what hair color he had and also if he had any of the three 'white skin" genes.

True, but if he did have light skin but not the same mutation as modern north Europeans, it's pretty likely we didn't get our light coloration from the Mesolithic H-G,s, but we did get our blue eyes (or at least some of them) from there.

[Jackson]

I know that the Gedmatch eye predictor isn't 100% accurate(still good). But it would be fun to stick the samples through it.

Yeah it's not so reliable when a person has one light eyed and one brown eyed parent. Both my mother and my aunt come out on that as having blue/blue-grey/blue-green eyes but in fact my aunt has brown eyes and my mother hazel eyes. Although it got my eyes very accurate.

[Fire Haired]

True, but if he did have light skin but not the same mutation as modern north Europeans, it's pretty likely we didn't get our light coloration from the Mesolithic H-G,s, but we did get our blue eyes (or at least some of them) from there.

We probably get our blue eyes almost entirely from the hunter gatherers. Farmer ancestry today correlates with brown eyes hunter gatherer with light. I think all paleness in Europe today descends from Mesolithic Europeans that doesn't mean all were pale.

[Rambo07]

Who cares? Their features and main attributes would have been the same.

[Fire Haired]

Here is a link which includes a map from the 1940's showing the distribution of Mesolithic like skulls shapes in Europe and it almost perfectly matches how we now know through autosomal DNA Mesolithic ancestry is distributed.
http://img1.picload.org/image/lroorlw/whg-stuff.jpg>

Who cares? Their features and main attributes would have been the same.

What do you mean by this? Only north Europeans may have around 50% Mesolithic ancestry(some definitely have majority) so no one knows what a 100% European hunter gatherer would be like in life. From what I have heard they were robust and and broad faced. They may have been very impressive people physically like African Americans. I am just going off a few things I have read from experts and random people. Maybe north-east Europeans and Scandinavians haven't gotten the opportunity to do much world famous sports so we haven't seen their natural athletic ability which descends from Mesolithic Europeans. I doubt Mesolithic Europeans were athletic like African Americans(maybe also their relatives in Africa) because African Americans are very unique in that way. It is fun to romantsize about them being huge buff cavemen who looked like Vikings, I think the people I have read from exaggerated.

The history of pigmentation in Europe is still a mystery. We do know though that light eyes mainly descend from the hunter gatherers but the origin of light skin and light hair is a total mystery. Most Euro hunter gatherers may have been a deep shade of brown, many blue eyed, black haired, and facial features and body builds most similar to modern north-eastern Euro's and Scandinavians.

I have noticed a common occurrence of somewhat broad faces and wide noses in Europeans, including in myself and my family. Reconstructions of pre Neolithic Europeans commonly have very broad faces and wide noses.

La Brana-1 reconstruction(hair and eye color correct skin color still unknown)


~26,000 year old figurine of a human face from central Europe.


Some reconstructions of Upper Palaeolithic Europeans at the Lascux exhibit(for famous museums around the world).

[Prisoner Of Ice]

What's also funny is you calling me eurocentrist. In reality the Eupedia clown is a very obvious nordicist. He talks all day about how I y-dna clade is the only native european one. His bashing on the origin of r1b is what's eurocentric and ridiculous.

He claims that r1b came when IE speaking people migrated to europe. Except basques are not IE people, and they covered west of france and north of spain. IE came to spain not through settlement but it evolved from a mediterranean IE lingua franca. Since spain was not even IE until relatively recent historic times (let alone some ancient past), you can't claim this theory means anything at all.

There's not a lot of r1b found in these sites...but guess what? Celts used cremation, as did all early greeks and most of italy.

More telling, there's no really ancient r1b found anywhere else, either. So this whole migration idea is obviously pure bullshit.

That's ignoring the stuff I linked to you earlier which also shows this fantasy crap never happened. Only migration of farmers from east tow est we have is some G y-dna stuff. The rest is utterly made up fantasies, and without that then all of these ideas fall apart.

Like I said, read the wikipedia. Who is making stuff up, wikipedia which is open to all or eupedia which is run by some European Union official who is an obvious nordicist?