What does a basic racial typology describe in Europe?

[Agrippa]

I know that Armenoid is relatively young subrace, do you have an idea how old it is? And also the age of the Nordid sub-race, if it is possible. Thanks.

Well, in the case of Nordid we have Proto-Nordoid strains, different variants of Nordid in the old times and modern times.

The main problem with Nordid is, however, completely different than that with Armenoid, because in the Armenoid case, traits like pigmentation and hairiness f.e. were most likely present a long time before the proportions and morphology came up, since it is a "regional trait" going beyond subracial limitations, while for the Nordid case, we have skulls, but we don't know for sure their pigmentation, which is decisive, because there is no absolute difference between a Nordid and Mediterranid skull.

I mean there are clear differences between Nordid and classic-gracile Mediterranid, but not between robust-tall variants of Mediterranid and even where they are, we can only speak of frequency differences. At the same time, like I said, Nordid hat different variants in the past it seems.

So if you see skull and bones, which fit the "Proto-Nordoid" bill, how can you say they were blond or not for example? You can't!

You can just assume, that at a certain time, in a certain context, for example the Corded Ware population was at least ON THE WAY to lighter pigmentation, but as long as there are no historical descriptions, physical remains of the hair and skin, or genetic tests done on the bones, there remains a huge gap.

Where the first Aurignacoids in Europe light or dark? The ones in the Mesolithic period? The Neolithic settlers even, what pigmentation did they have? We don't know for sure...

But morphologically-proportionally, beside more archaic variants, Nordoid forms existed since Mesolithic times in Europe, latest, which needed to be "just depigmented", so basically Proto-Nordoid Mediterranoids one could say.

Armenoid on the other hand is difficult to distinguish from Dinarid at times, but otherwise a clear case on its own, because being so different on the bones already.

We have first remains rather from the Metal Ages on of Taurid variants, so I'd assume they came into existence in the very late Neolithic, Chalcolithic, or even Bronze Age time.

To give an example, among the Chatti, Churri and Urartian we already find significant frequencies of Armenoid traits, before that single skulls here and there, for example on Cyprus surprisingly (metal prospectors?), but in depictions and higher rates, those people are for the Near East crucial.

Of course, not every valley and mountain in the Caucasus region being so completely researched, that you can be sure, but it doesn't really matter, because it is not so much about when you have the first variant, that's like with Nordids, otherwise Nordid would be much older I guess than the Neolithics, but when the traits as an inheritable combination spread and began to dominate at least significant subpopulations, becoming an important and recognisable element in the racial variation.

[gandalf]

Sticky

[Ar-Man]

Thank you very much Agrippa. I did not know that the Nordid type was that old.
If you are interested I can help you out in recreating those archaic Europid types in 3D. It will be a great exercise for me and it is much better to do something useful and important rather than wasting my time on trolls.

[Agrippa]

Thank you very much Agrippa. I did not know that the Nordid type was that old.
If you are interested I can help you out in recreating those archaic Europid types in 3D. It will be a great exercise for me and it is much better to do something useful and important rather than wasting my time on trolls.

Thanks too, but how do you want to do that? From most specimen we have just the bones, good pictures and general measurements in most cases only from the skull - unfortunately and I'm not sure whether you can reconstruct facial features, or can you try?

[Ar-Man]

Thanks too, but how do you want to do that? From most specimen we have just the bones, good pictures and general measurements in most cases only from the skull - unfortunately and I'm not sure whether you can reconstruct facial features, or can you try?

Sure we can try. I think I will be able to make reconstructions based on the skull remains that we have,though I never tried it before.

[Agrippa]

Sure we can try. I think I will be able to make reconstructions based on the skull remains that we have,though I never tried it before.

Well, they are not archaic, but can you try these LBK sample:


No. 3 is best preserved obviously.

Thanks!

[Ar-Man]

Well, they are not archaic, but can you try these LBK sample:


No. 3 is best preserved obviously.

Thanks!

Thanks, I'll start in few days, I think before sculpting It'll be better If I draw few face shapes, and you confirm their validity.

So this is an Aurignacoid skull ?

[Agrippa]

So this is an Aurignacoid skull ?

Well, yes. Somewhere between Mediterranoid and Proto-Nordoid.

[Ar-Man]

As I see the thread was cleared

Here's the basic 3D sculpture without details, what do you think ?

[Madonna]

interesting