Are Montenegrins traitors?

[Stefan_Dusan]

Hmmm interesting I did not know that. You mean genetically of course right? It could be because Kosovar Albanians have been isolated from other Balkan groups genetically. I read before that Montenegrins are essentially Albanians who have adopted or assimilated aspects of South Slavic culture.

Where did you read that Coon? And yes, genetically. Kosovar Albanians score tightly with other Albanians, so if Montenegrins are just Albanians pretending to be Serbians/slavs you'd expect the same result. And what cultural practices do Montenegrins do that are not part of south slavic culture elsewhere?

[Stefan_Dusan]

MDLP is an amateur project, besides assimilation and migrations are always tracked down by Y-DNA frequencies and never by autosomal, in fact even MTdna isn't taken into account considering migrations!

Y-DNA just is small percentage of your overall DNA. I gave the example of me taking Black wife. You can even extend it down the line: my half black son taking another black wife, so on for many generations. Then my 99.9999% Black something generation grandson will still have my same haplogroup. And who says EV-13 is Albanian anyway? It's just a haplogroup that existed before Albanians existed as an ethnicity.

While MLDP is not perfect, I think the results stand for themselves.

[Insuperable]

@Solin

We here don't care about entire genome,but only part which is indicator of migrations and that's primarly y-dna,and then mtdna.
Bosniaks are indeed native to SE Europe,and they are genetically one of the most paleolithic Europeans (50%I2).
Are you people aware that these little amateurish atdna projects from amateur blogs are not used in real science?
And that only y-dna is used in real science?
atdna can be used only for individuals-not for populations.

So many fucking ignorant people on TA. There is no reason to even discuss anything with you.

[cally]

I have south slavic cousins who plot further away from me so I don't think you can determine ancestry from where you plot.
There is a tosk albanian who plots with Bulgarians also

[cally]

These gedmatch calculators give me 20+ distance too for "Kosovar"

[Stefan_Dusan]

I have south slavic cousins who plot further away from me so I don't think you can determine ancestry from where you plot.
There is a tosk albanian who plots with Bulgarians also

No that can make sense. For example, if I have a cousin who is also half black (say half Serbian) he will plot far from me due to the black side even though we share some DNA exactly. Really our DNA we share is not enough to bridge the gap of his black side which is dramatically pulling him away. Across all DNA he is farther. And that makes sense. Lookwise he is also farther, he will look half Black. Whereas another Serbian, not even related to me, will look closer.

[Black Wolf]

Where did you read that Coon? And yes, genetically. Kosovar Albanians score tightly with other Albanians, so if Montenegrins are just Albanians pretending to be Serbians/slavs you'd expect the same result. And what cultural practices do Montenegrins do that are not part of south slavic culture elsewhere?

Actually yes I did read it in Coon's book The Races of Europe. I know it is old but some of his observations have been proven by genetics and some has been disproven. I never said that Montenegrins do not practice non-Slavic culture. I said basically if they are indeed Slavicized Albanians then they have adopted Slavic culture. Anyways it appears to be a lot more complex than just Slav or Albanian. Like other Balkan groups they are probably a mix of old Paleo-Balkan peoples (Illyrians) and Slavs most likely.

[Stefan_Dusan]

Actually yes I did read it in Coon's book The Races of Europe. I know it is old but some of his observations have been proven by genetics and some has been disproven. I never said that Montenegrins do not practice non-Slavic culture. I said basically if they are indeed Slavicized Albanians then they have adopted Slavic culture. Anyways it appears to be a lot more complex than just Slav or Albanian. Like other Balkan groups they are probably a mix of old Paleo-Balkan peoples (Illyrians) and Slavs most likely.

No you said you "believe" they were meaning you have some reason for believing. I was asking for what the reason was.

As to Coon, he stated his theories mainly because he observed some northern Albanian tribes similar to them in appearance and culture. What I find interesting in Coon and he sort of doesn't address it is he mentions that the tribes of Malesia a madha are most similar with other Albanian tribes dramatically diverging from Montenegrins (in appearance, he used height) with just small distances as you moved away from Malesia a madha. Now why would that? To me evidence is Albanians of Malesia a madha absorbed Montenegrin Serbs more so than the more southern tribes and that's why they look most similar (in height at least).

[Black Wolf]

No you said you "believe" they were meaning you have some reason for believing. I was asking for what the reason was.

As to Coon, he stated his theories mainly because he observed some northern Albanian tribes similar to them in appearance and culture. What I find interesting in Coon and he sort of doesn't address it is he mentions that the tribes of Malesia a madha are most similar with Albanian tribes dramatically diverging from them (in appearance, he used height) with just small distances as you moved away from Malesia a madha. Now why would that? To me evidence is Albanians of Malesia a madha absorbed Montenegrin Serbs more so than the more southern tribes and that's why they look most similar (in height at least).

I said ''believe'' because that is what I thought. That is what I had read about this topic before.

Peoples throughout the Balkans have obviously absorbed and mixed with each other over time just look at the Y-DNA haplogroup distributions there. Pretty much all Balkan groups have E1b1b, and I2a among them in pretty high frequencies. Other haplogroups such as J2b and R1b1 are also present. This seems to indicate a decent amount of admixture between the different groups there.

[Skerdilaid]

No you said you "believe" they were meaning you have some reason for believing. I was asking for what the reason was.

As to Coon, he stated his theories mainly because he observed some northern Albanian tribes similar to them in appearance and culture. What I find interesting in Coon and he sort of doesn't address it is he mentions that the tribes of Malesia a madha are most similar with other Albanian tribes dramatically diverging from Montenegrins (in appearance, he used height) with just small distances as you moved away from Malesia a madha. Now why would that? To me evidence is Albanians of Malesia a madha absorbed Montenegrin Serbs more so than the more southern tribes and that's why they look most similar (in height at least).

When it comes to height and general look, majority of Kosovars (exclude Ashkalis) do not differ from Albanians from Malesia e Madhe. When it comes to customs or traditions, an old school Montenegrin would feel right at home in central Drenica, and he would be called a primitive in Serbia. This was quite visible during their colonization of Kosova, where even the old Slavs of Kosova grouped them with the "Shiptar".


When it comes to what they are genetically, then there is no doubt that the Brda Clans are a mere extension of the Albo Clans that mixed with the Slavs and Vlahs that wondered up in the mountains after the Ottoman arrival.