Frisian isn't as close to (modern) English as some people seem to think

[FeederOfRavens]

Yeah right. The Saxons were a larger tribe and most feared in the north sea as they were the majoriy of the pirates. They inhabited modern day northern germany and the eastern half of the netherlands. But then again what time period are we talking about? Later roman period [around right before they left britain?].....I tend to believe the Saxons were a considerable threat to the Romans as they built a very long line of coastal forts....and later hired many Saxons to live there and protect the shores of southern England.... The Saxons are named after the sword they carried....so it is known they had to have carried the feared Seax which I happen to own a remake of one. In close combat they were deadly weapons and the saxons were known to carry them and use them with deadly efficiency. You have an unusual fetish for rome like some other posters here.

However the Romans practically gave Britain to the Saxons. They I do not think cared about Britain as it was seen as the end of the world or edge of the world. However The Saxons and Frisians were pirates for a long time.

Saxons were just a generic term for a North Sea pirate in the late Roman era. Saxons don't have a naval reputation like the Frisians.

[Alessio]

I love the story of Arminius

The Batavians were the defacto leader among the german tribes though. Their seconds, the Treveri, were also ruled by a branch of the Batavian Royal house. The vast majority of germanic auxilaries before the foderati system raped the roman military was compromised by the Batavian Royal Horse, who although weren't as elite as the multinational Thracian Horse, were very strategically flexible as they were known for their ability to cross rivers with their horses while in full gear. Pretty hard to rest when 3000 dutchmen can cross a big river on horseback then wheel back and wreck some disorganised barbarian encampment.

We also know that they were more advanced as swords and helmets were extremely rare among germanics but more common among batavians and frisians. Not to mention that the only considerable naval threat caesar met in his conquest of gaul consisted of frisians, while support more eastern germans fled and surrendered en masse when boarded by legionaire raiding parties. They also had a poor reputation for seamen while the opposite was true of the frisians.

Their long relationship with rome that I mentioned above also helped them develop technically at rates far greater than those of other germans. When frankish rulers desired to build fleets they either chose gallo romans from southern france to build and man them or frisians.

Arminius and Civilis, the two germans who led significant rebellions against the romans before being defeated, were also part of the Batavian Royal house. Civilis is confirmed while Arminius had at least ties with them. It's also very important to notice that there were noble batavians serving with rome against them. Whatever happened, the royal house would survive and would continue to bully the other germans into line to both win favour and benefits of rome while avoiding another devastation like the battle of wesser river or adastavisus.


I could post a list of the commanders of the germanic auxilary forces serving with the AUR legions in the west. I can also guarantee you that all of them will be batavian.

[Alessio]

Show us what you know

Barely anything. I know a bit of Dutch and Afrikaans so it kind of helps.

[LightHouse89]

people forget that english was also influenced by old norse from the Danish settlers in what is now East Anglia and Northcumbria. They did impact the English language by the time of the arrival of the Normans. English changed in the 1500s-1600s when a more standardized language was created......read shakespeare's writings and compare them to various other writings prior 100 years....the language looks very different and the various dialects people had or used different grammar....but then again most people were uneducated and could not write.

Shakespeare's English had more of an impact on what we speak today than what the Anglo-Normans spoke of the 13th century or the Anglo-Saxon-Danes before them.

Here is the lords prayer in Anglo-Saxon. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQVyol7N1Jo&hd=1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMrV...6E5243558&hd=1

Anglo-Norman-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJr8uZPNm4Y&hd=1

[LightHouse89]

Saxons were just a generic term for a North Sea pirate in the late Roman era. Saxons don't have a naval reputation like the Frisians.

Well how do you thin they invaded the British Islands and the Northern French cost? Saxons were a giant tribe....however probably insignificant in this period until the fall of the Roman Empire.

[Alessio]

Why ?

It sounded like well pronounced gibberish to me.

[Äijä]

Yeah right. The Saxons were a larger tribe and most feared in the north sea as they were the majoriy of the pirates. They inhabited modern day northern germany and the eastern half of the netherlands. But then again what time period are we talking about? Later roman period [around right before they left britain?].....I tend to believe the Saxons were a considerable threat to the Romans as they built a very long line of coastal forts....and later hired many Saxons to live there and protect the shores of southern England.... The Saxons are named after the sword they carried....so it is known they had to have carried the feared Seax which I happen to own a remake of one. In close combat they were deadly weapons and the saxons were known to carry them and use them with deadly efficiency. You have an unusual fetish for rome like some other posters here.

However the Romans practically gave Britain to the Saxons. They I do not think cared about Britain as it was seen as the end of the world or edge of the world. However The Saxons and Frisians were pirates for a long time.

It is very possible that Batavians could have had some status and prestige among Germanic peoples in the region for their role inside the Roman military.
Interesting is their rebellion, for sure some where exiled or left voluntarily after it, they could have moved with the Frisians and Saxons or even in Scandinavia.

[FeederOfRavens]

Well how do you thin they invaded the British Islands and the Northern French cost? Saxons were a giant tribe....however probably insignificant in this period until the fall of the Roman Empire.

I mean the Romans wouldn't have distinguished between a boatload of Frisians and a boatload of Saxons. Look at the maps from this period, Frisians covered most of the coast from Flanders to Holstein while Saxons were more inland. The Saxons main expansion on the continent was in the middle ages(starting from 900s) when they advanced eastwards at the cost of west slavs.

[LightHouse89]

I mean the Romans wouldn't have distinguished between a boatload of Frisians and a boatload of Saxons. Look at the maps from this period, Frisians covered most of the coast from Flanders to Holstein while Saxons were more inland. The Saxons main expansion on the continent was in the middle ages(starting from 900s) when they advanced eastwards at the cost of west slavs.

then who invaded the British Islands? If some of my ancestors were not the people of the sword then I feel bad But I always thought the saxons were a specific tribe...now they did make an expansion into what is now England....I mean why would that be made up if it didnt happen? Or why would some group of germanics invade there and claim they were Saxons....even the Irish word for Saxon today is used to call English people....so they had to have invaded the British Islands. However I tend to think the Danes genetically may have had a much larger impact on England than Saxons [who most likely were the Kings and minor rulers of the time]. I mean England had a double dosage of genes from Denmark.

[Alessio]

The Russian Tsar Peter the Great came to Holland to learn how to build boats in Zaandam where he also had the first wooden house build named the ''Tsaar Petershuisje'' and he stayed there for a while in the summer of 1697. He knew the Dutch were the best boatbuilders and he wanted to gain knowledge from the industry as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czar_Pe..._(Netherlands)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaan#The_Zaan_district
There is a saying that the industrial revolution began in Zaandam and nowhere in Europe you could find such a high density of industrial mills. Also whaling was a profession practiced by almost every village in Zaandam.

The Batavians were the defacto leader among the german tribes though. Their seconds, the Treveri, were also ruled by a branch of the Batavian Royal house. The vast majority of germanic auxilaries before the foderati system raped the roman military was compromised by the Batavian Royal Horse, who although weren't as elite as the multinational Thracian Horse, were very strategically flexible as they were known for their ability to cross rivers with their horses while in full gear. Pretty hard to rest when 3000 dutchmen can cross a big river on horseback then wheel back and wreck some disorganised barbarian encampment.

We also know that they were more advanced as swords and helmets were extremely rare among germanics but more common among batavians and frisians. Not to mention that the only considerable naval threat caesar met in his conquest of gaul consisted of frisians, while support more eastern germans fled and surrendered en masse when boarded by legionaire raiding parties. They also had a poor reputation for seamen while the opposite was true of the frisians.

Their long relationship with rome that I mentioned above also helped them develop technically at rates far greater than those of other germans. When frankish rulers desired to build fleets they either chose gallo romans from southern france to build and man them or frisians.

Arminius and Civilis, the two germans who led significant rebellions against the romans before being defeated, were also part of the Batavian Royal house. Civilis is confirmed while Arminius had at least ties with them. It's also very important to notice that there were noble batavians serving with rome against them. Whatever happened, the royal house would survive and would continue to bully the other germans into line to both win favour and benefits of rome while avoiding another devastation like the battle of wesser river or adastavisus.


I could post a list of the commanders of the germanic auxilary forces serving with the AUR legions in the west. I can also guarantee you that all of them will be batavian.