14,000 Women Die from Domestic Abuse Every Year in Russia, NGO claims

**glass** · 03-02-2014, 07:02 AM

Originally Posted by Despot

The Wiki page you cited says "The legal definition of "intentional homicide" differs among countries. ".

died of injuries/abuse is still murder, accident is accident

**Methmatician** · 03-02-2014, 07:04 AM

Originally Posted by glasses

died of injuries/abuse is still murder, accident is accident

If the intent wasn't to kill then it isn't considered murder, at least in Russia.

**glass** · 03-02-2014, 07:19 AM

Originally Posted by Despot

If the intent wasn't to kill then it isn't considered murder, at least in Russia.

if death is result of human actions it is murder in Russia, but surely you know better...

btw i just googled this and found from where all this 14k deaths per year come from.
Only source of this: so called "Center Anna", and some Marina Pisklakova. NGO claims. Btw there were 10k murders per year in 2012

here her shit is exposed (in russian, i am too lazy to translate) http://ruschippies.com/analysis/razo...y-pisklakovoi/.

So this bitch is just making good fortune from "fighting domestic violence", the bigger number, the better for her, because it will lead to higher reposting and higher donations. So she is just another charlatan.

**Methmatician** · 03-02-2014, 07:28 AM

Originally Posted by glasses

if death is result of human actions it is murder in Russia, but surely you know better...

In Australia it's still considered murder but AFAIK in Russia it is not.

Russian Criminal Code

Article 26. A Crime Committed by Negligence
1. A criminal deed committed thoughtlessly or due to negligence shall be recognized as a crime committed by negligence.
2. A crime shall be deemed to be committed thoughtlessly, if the person has foreseen the possibility of the onset of socially dangerous consequences of his actions (inaction), but expected without valid reasons that these consequences would be prevented.
3. A crime shall be deemed to be committed due to negligence if the person has not foreseen the possibility of the onset of socially dangerous consequences of his actions (inaction), although he could and should have foreseen these consequences with reasonable.

**Cail** · 03-02-2014, 07:46 AM

Originally Posted by Despot

If the intent wasn't to kill then it isn't considered murder, at least in Russia.

Why the fuck do you keep arguing when you don't know shit about the issue in question and the only source of information you have is a fucking Wikipedia article??? Seriously, what the fuck??? And fucking BBC reporters, pulling wild shit out of their asses as usual

. Talking about stuff in the fields that they don't have a slightest clue about.

Russian criminal code, article 109:
"Causing death by accident. Action or inaction, that has objectively caused death to another person, when such action or inaction has been committed not with intent, but by accident, meaning that the accused should have but did not foresee the result of his action or inaction (criminal negligence), or was acting under a false assumption that the result of his action or inaction will be prevented from happening (criminal thoughtlessness)" is punished by up to three years in prison.

Russian criminal code, article 111:
"Causing gravely bodily harm with intent. Intentional action or inaction, that has caused serious life-threatening harm to another person, ..." is punished by up to eight years in prison. However "In case action or inaction described in this article has also by accident caused death of the victim, it is punished by to fifteen years in prison".

Russian criminal code, article 117, part 2:
"Systematic physical abuse, committed against a person in a situation of helplessness, including dependents of the accused" - up to 7 years in prison.

Under Russian law, all of these punishments stack by the way. Beating your wife to death is classified as "Intentional causing of gravely bodily harm that has led to accidental death of the victim, committed during systematic physical abuse against a person in a situation of helplessness", punishable by up to 25 years in prison.

**Methmatician** · 03-02-2014, 07:51 AM

Originally Posted by Cail

Why the fuck do you keep arguing when you don't know shit about the issue in question and the only source of information you have is a fucking Wikipedia article??? Seriously, what the fuck??? And fucking BBC reporters, pulling wild shit out of their asses as usual

. Talking about stuff in the fields that they don't have a slightest clue about.

I'm not the one who introduced the wikipedia article, glasses was.

Originally Posted by Cail

Russian criminal code, article 109:
"Causing death by accident. Action or inaction, that has objectively caused death to another person, when such action or inaction has been committed not with intent, but by accident, meaning that the accused should have but did not foresee the result of his action or inaction (criminal negligence), or was acting under a false assumption that the result of his action or inaction will be prevented from happening (criminal thoughtlessness)" is punished by up to three years in prison.

Russian criminal code, article 111:
"Causing gravely bodily harm with intent. Intentional action or inaction, that has caused serious life-threatening harm to another person, ..." is punished by up to eight years in prison. However "In case action or inaction described in this article has also by accident caused death of the victim, it is punished by to fifteen years in prison".

Russian criminal code, article 117, part 2:
"Systematic physical abuse, committed against a person in a situation of helplessness, including dependents of the accused" - up to 7 years in prison.

Under Russian law, all of these punishments stack by the way. Beating your wife to death is classified as "Intentional causing of gravely bodily harm that has led to accidental death of the victim, committed during systematic physical abuse against a person in a situation of helplessness", punishable by up to 25 years in prison.

None of these disprove anything I've said. You've just posted the punishments for different crimes. It does not determine that assault without intent to kill but death has occurred anyway is still considered murder. And where does the Russian criminal code reference domestic violence?

**Cail** · 03-02-2014, 07:54 AM

By the way, the majority (two thirds) of the Russian judges are female too. Russia has problems, but the female rights/equality is certainly not one of them.

**Cail** · 03-02-2014, 08:01 AM

Originally Posted by Despot

None of these disprove anything I've said. You've just posted the punishments for different crimes. It does not determine that assault without intent to kill but death has occurred anyway is still considered murder. And where does the Russian criminal code reference domestic violence?

Assault without intent to kill but the death has occurred anyway is not considered murder - it is considered causing gravely bodily harm that has accidentally led to death, and the punishment is appropriate (way higher than in a really accidental manslaughter case).

Russian criminal code does not reference domestic violence, because violence is violence. Battering your wife is not different from battering anyone else, unless it is done systematically (in which case it is "systematic physical abuse of a dependent"). Believe me, underpunishing for a physical crime is NOT a problem that Russia has, it is the opposite actually (it is difficult to get your case classified as an accident or even necessary self-defense).

**Methmatician** · 03-02-2014, 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by Cail

Assault without intent to kill but the death has occurred anyway is not considered murder - it is considered causing gravely bodily harm that has accidentally led to death, and the punishment is appropriate (way higher than in a really accidental manslaughter case).

"1. A criminal deed committed thoughtlessly or due to negligence shall be recognized as a crime committed by negligence." It is not in considered homicide though.

Originally Posted by Cail

Russian criminal code does not reference domestic violence, because violence is violence. Battering your wife is not different from battering anyone else, unless it is done systematically (in which case it is "systematic physical abuse of a dependent"). Believe me, underpunishing for a physical crime is NOT a problem that Russia has, it is the opposite actually (it is difficult to get your case classified as an accident or even necessary self-defense).

I'm not arguing if the punishment fits the crime, just that accidental murder is not considered homicide.

**Cail** · 03-02-2014, 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by Despot

I'm not arguing if the punishment fits the crime, just that accidental murder is not considered homicide.

What do you mean by "considered homicide". There is no article for "homicide" in the Russian criminal code, there are separate ones for "intentional homicide" and "causing death by accident". In that sense its the same as for example the US criminal code, which has separate articles for "murder" and "manslaughter". Of course causing death by accident is not considered intentional homicide, because it isn't. Assault that led to accidental death is also not considered intentional homicide, because it isn't. It is punished severely though, which is the whole point. I can't see what is it that you disagree with here?