Sorry, Vegans: Brussels Sprouts Like to Live, Too

[nisse]

You’re projecting. I never said that. I said we outnumber our prey.

...and were unnatural...and had nightmarish framing practices...obviously I paraphrased, but the meaning was there

Before I was a vegan, I could see how alike a baby cow crying for it’s mom, and a human infant crying for it’s mom are. It’s not preachy. Maybe rhetorical, since I thought *we* would feel an affinity with the infant.

Yeah, but just becasue before you were a vegan you didn't see that a brussle sprout is also crying out for help doesn't mean it's not. A calf is not a human infant, fyi. I'm open minded enough that I can feel affinity to it as well as the brussle sprout.

That’s just glib. That’s how slavery was defended.

...except that no one (to my knowledge) *bred* slaves for improved texture, or marbled meat, or higher milk production. If it's not homo sapiens it's not a human.

[Loki]

Off-topic posts have been moved here.

[Lahtari]

Buying meat in some shop is easy, but who of you would be capable of killing himself the animal that he wants to eat?

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[Hulda.Kin]

For me, if I was hungry enough I would have no qualms in catching something and killing and eating it... the self-preservation gene would kick in loudly!
Generally my diet is vegan style 5 days out of 7(or that percentage of meals are vegan) I eat a very small amount of dairy and meat(usually the white type Prawns, Tuna, Hake or chicken).. I prefer a minimum amount of animal products as well as keeping gluten products to a minimum as well, this is based on a diet that suits me and one I feel better living on. However, if I need a quick energy boost then I will eat meat only and usually a small portion of red meat as that gives me the boost required.
Obviously my demand on the animal kingdom is less than usual but I don't think that I am saving any animals because of it, in fact I did go vegan for a while to see how it felt, knowing full well that even then I was not saving any animals as IMO those quoted saved animals don't actually exist, I believe those figures are merely based on speculation as to how much regular portions of meat would add up to in regards to animal size.. if I had a fetish for only chicken wings and needed a dozen for a meal each night of my life then that's 6 chickens being killed for just one days consumption. What turned me off remaining a vegan or even a vegetarian was 2 things, firstly the lack of energy I had and i have CFS so need every bit i can muster and then the biggie was being in contact with a heap of vegans who came across as self-righteous fundies of the worst type... so I decided to become a flexitarian.
My ancestors were hunter gatherers and I am in debt for their prowess at being good at it, for without them i wouldn't be here. Intensive factory farming is cruel, so it's healthier to either catch your own or get your meat direct from farmers.

I get squeamish over the sight of blood and have never caught a rabbit or other land dwelling animal for food, however I grew up on the water in Sydney and used to fish off our jetty all the time. My mum is a crack shot and used to go rabbiting with her dad when she was younger and my partner grew up on a farm and is more than capable of hunting as well.
Maybe having a conscience is what makes it hard for some humans to eat meat but in nature that does not exist, the wolf, tiger, crocodile, shark etc hunts and kills it's food, it's survival and what it eats to do so never ends up on the net for discussion... it just gets on with the business of living and reproducing it's kind, that's what we need to do to keep our kind alive too.. eat well and reproduce :-)

[Chris]

“...and were unnatural...and had nightmarish framing practices…”

Unnatural and nightmarish for the animals and some people.

“...no one *bred* slaves for improved texture, or marbled meat, or higher milk production…”

They were bred for cotton production.

[Chris]

“I get squeamish over the sight of blood and have never caught a rabbit or other land dwelling animal for food.” ------Hulda.Kin

I grew up hunting and what bothered me more than blood was seeing an animal I shot lose it’s footing and fall. It’s hard for me to word it, but one minute the animal has it’s dignity and then it’s on the ground. Sometimes they run away and you have to trail them, but others struggled to get back up for a brief moment.

Once I learned I could survive, even thrive, without meat, I never looked back, other than to regret I ever intentionally killed deer.

Unless I’m starving I can’t imagine eating meat again, but with hunting the animals have freedom and dignity until their death. Farmed animals often don’t have one day of comfort for their entire lives.

[Svanhild]

I became vegetarian with 14, owing to the Bambi effect and compassion for the animals shown in those horrible PETA videos and the shock worked for 16 or 17 months. During that time I learned that many vegetarians and as good as all vegans are spoiled do-gooders with messianic features who use extreme cases in third world countries or in the USA to depreciate a whole industry, the meat processing sector, and the honest and downright butchers next door who do their job complying with all high standards. I couldn't stand the "We are superior humans and all those meat eaters are sinners and cannibals"-talk. Vegetarian and vegan communities tend to have delusional and religious features. It began to feel wrong to be a part of them more and more.

Additional to these impressions I've lost a lot weight and began to feel ill. My body is fine-boned by nature and vegetarian meals did not saturate the needs of my body in its imporant growth phase during puberty. I got migraine, felt tired all the day and had a low blood pressure.
As if this wasn't enough I began to thirst for the taste of meat products. The rest of my family prepared animal food but I had to eat replacement products, soja meals or fruits and vegetables. The smell of animal food on the table grew unbearable, metaphorically speaking my mouth was watering. It became clear to me that I am not a vegetarian by body and mind, all bambi effects aside.

My phase of vegetarism ended with porcine strips in cream and mushroom sauce. I remember it as one of the most tasty meals I've ever eaten. Over the following months my body weight went back to normal and my health problems disappeared slowly. I killed my first and only mammal so far two years later when I had to shot an unconscious pig with a bolt gun during a two-day internship in a local butcher's shop in the course of a school project to become acquainted with different occupational areas. It was hard, but it didn't felt wrong if all rules are strictly adhered to. Eat and to be eaten, it's the run of nature.

[Freomæg]

A purely vegan diet is not healthy

I beg to differ. I went from a 10 stone weakling to a 14 stone, musclebound vegan. Anyone who knows me would say I'm one of the healthiest people they know.

I'm vegan, and I'm sure I'll be very alone in this thread

You're not!

As for the thread subject matter - I'm sure plants seek self-preservation, but they don't do it with the same 5 senses that animals do. Point being, a plant cannot see its suffering nor experience emotional trauma like an animal does. Furthermore, plants live and die bound to a piece of dirt whatever happens, animals do not live free and natural whatever happens - most of the ones we eat live in a cage, raped, tormented and unnatural. My major issue is not with eating meat or dairy per se, but specifically with the methods we use.

[Klärchen]

I have been a vegetarian for 27 years, and I feel much better now than when I was still eating meat! In the beginning, it was a bit difficult, because on has got accustomed to meat and fish, but there are so many other tasty things. And if you have nothing to eat – why kill animals? One can eat so many of the plants in our surroundings, one only has to know which ones. And there are also many very tasty dishes based on tofu, for example.

[December]

I have been a vegetarian for 27 years, and I feel much better now than when I was still eating meat! In the beginning, it was a bit difficult, because on has got accustomed to meat and fish, but there are so many other tasty things. And if you have nothing to eat – why kill animals?

Most of people who eat meat never killed an animal. They just buy it ready to cook. Or cooked. How many people you know who have witnessed or killed an animal? None. Most of proud meat eaters would just piss their pants if they went hunting boars and saw one running towards them.

I would love to see some holding, say, a turkey steady to chop his head. And I'm not only speaking about the killing sensation that will make you puke until you get used to it. I mean, those little 25lb birdies, run, strive, kick, peck.

One can eat so many of the plants in our surroundings, one only has to know which ones. And there are also many very tasty dishes based on tofu, for example.

I admire vegetarians who can mantain themselves healthy. It's not just a matter of going berserk and stopping to eat meat. One has to follow a strict diet to asure the ingestion of essential amino-acids that your body can not synthesise at all. This is basic science that I've learnt in the school.

Personally I admit that I do not have enough patience and will to be vegetarian, though I'd gladly be. It's a matter of habituation. Being upbrought in a maritime-oriented culture, along with pork, beef and poultry, all kinds of seafood are omnipresent in our diet and they provide all what you need.

Seafood is much more healthier and since I don't enjoy seeing animals in captivity, by avoiding (but not barring) meats, specially red and fried (textbook diet for people who practice sports) I'm not only mantaining a healthy diet: At least, most of fishes and shellfishes are only minimally aware/intelligent, caught in the wild and their killing much faster and clean.

My 2 cents.