On Turkey and the Turks

**Loki** · 01-14-2010, 02:55 AM

Cut out the personal insults. Debate the topic without having to resort to that.

**poiuytrewq0987** · 01-14-2010, 02:56 AM

I'm not going to waste my time with someone who has only cyber-knowledge of Turks compared to me who has been on the frontlines for many times. I'm going to bow out and let you post pictures of Janissary-era Turkified Europeans.

**Genetic_Lysenko** · 01-14-2010, 01:58 PM

Is there really so big difference between modern Turks and, let´s say Greeks?

**Monolith** · 01-14-2010, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by Genetic_Lysenko

Is there really so big difference between modern Turks and, let´s say Greeks?

Greeks are much more homogeneous than Turks are.

**Agrippa** · 01-14-2010, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by Genetic_Lysenko

Is there really so big difference between modern Turks and, let´s say Greeks?

Simple put, whats a small minority in Greeks makes up the majority in Turks.

Its not about the genetic legacy of the Neolithic, not even the potential Semitic influence, but the Armenoid-Anadolid - Asian Alpinoid-Aralid spectrum.

Armenoid variants are pretty rare in Greece, though they occur as a minority element here and there, they are in no way representative and those which occur are mostly on the more Anadolid or progressive Armenoid side.

Turks on the other hand, especially talking about the Anatolian ones, are a totally different thing from a racial standpoint. As I said, there are many European-like Turks, but thats not the majority, whereas in Greece European phenotypes are the CLEAR majority without a doubt.

Most Turks which look European are Islamised Greeks, Slavs, Germanics (mercenaries and slaves) etc. (to many people crossed Anatolia to name them all) anyway, but the great majority of Anatolians are Europid, but not of the European spectrum, as pointed out.

So there is no clear cut border between Greece and Turkey, but thats due to the biohistorical facts mentioned. Actually, if those Western and coastal Turks of today would be Greek Christians by culture and ethnicity, I would count them as Europeans obviously, but they are Muslims, they are by ethnicity Turkish and they mixed with the Asian Turkic people and Anatolian groups to a large extend.

If I would accept a Turk as a "candidate" for becoming European: Only on an individual base, which would also mean to forget a lot of his/her ethnocultural and religious background, if being fit by the other, the biological traits, quasi a "conversion back to the European orientation".

The same is largely true for large parts of North Africa, which were really just "Greater Europe" for a certain time, yet now the Arabs, Islam and Negroid slaves changed the picture drastically, even more so than in most parts of Turkey.

Even worse Central Asia, which was once integral part of
"Greater Europe" and is now Turko-Mongol and predominantely Mongoloid or Mongoloid-Europid mixed territory. Things change, not always in favour of our people so to say...

**Goidelic** · 01-18-2010, 02:42 PM

Turkey has 12.5% of J1 as a Semitic (Arabic, Jewish) marker, higher than any place in Europe.

"Turkey is the only country that includes a sizeable percentage of Asian and African haplogroups not listed in this table (A, ExE1b1b, C, H, L, O, R2) representing 8.5% of the total. Haplogroup L alone makes up 4% of the Turkish population."

http://eupedia.com/europe/european_y...logroups.shtml

**Agrippa** · 01-18-2010, 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by Goidelic

Turkey has 12.5% of J1 as a Semitic (Arabic, Jewish) marker, higher than any place in Europe.

"Turkey is the only country that includes a sizeable percentage of Asian and African haplogroups not listed in this table (A, ExE1b1b, C, H, L, O, R2) representing 8.5% of the total. Haplogroup L alone makes up 4% of the Turkish population."

http://eupedia.com/europe/european_y...logroups.shtml

Thats no surprise, but even more interesting would be if there is a gradient from the South East to the West of Turkey, which I would assume, because even the Turks themselves know about the "Turkicised Arabs", yet I doubt they made in in significant numbers to places like Thracia or the Western coast, which again, would just reflect the general dichotomy of Turkey in a Western and Eastern part.

Of course, even Hellenism and the Byzantine Empire led to mixture, even more so in the Ottoman empire and modern Turkey, yet I think the gradient is still significant, phenotypes seems to prove it too.

Usually the most European variants can be seen in the army, students and generally the higher social classes, as well as all people of the formerly Greek West, with the Anatolian highlands being dominated by much more foreign elements and the more East one goes, the more Near Eastern in a Semitic-Assyrian-Southern Caucasian way they become.