Austria-Hungary and the great war

[TheForeigner]

I noticed a lot of traditionalists in Europe and America praise Austria Hungary and Germany during the kaiser rule or second reich. There is cosntant mental acrobatics to pin the blame for ww1 on ''evil'' Britain,America, ''joos'' or anyone except the Central Powers. Even Serbs or Balkan people are blamed, because of Gavrilo Princip's stupid and awful assasination of reform minded and pacifistic Franz Ferdinand. Of course it's not fair to blame only Germany and it's allies. All great powers and the two european military blocks Entente and Central Powers were to blame. But what about Austria Hungary as the cief and forgotton istigator? Even though they saw Russia might make war and there would be a european war, they made no compromise and made sure the ultimatum on serbia was very extreme and weren't happy when only 2or 3 of the worst clauses were rejected. Not even arbitration by foreign powers wasn't good enough. And who was behind this war party in Austria Hungary? Why it was those wonderful kultured, monocled austro-german aristocrats and military men of very old, ultraconservative, ultrareactionary and militaristic bent. Who else? Why those wonderful, equally cultured, ultraeuropean Hungarian chauvinistic aristocrats who said no to democratic reform and since 1910 had largely made short work of croatian autonomy. What about all the fanboys of habsburgs and Greater Hungary think of their idealized gods help unleash ww1 on Europe. See the essays of Robert Seton Watson, british historian and publicist for details on austro-hungarian foreign policy,domestic policies, nationalities question and ww1. Also his book The racial problem in Hungary, for a look at how opressed and humiliated the non-magyar nationalities of Hungary were. And about the bad government, abuses and tyrranous nature of hungarian aristocratic government.

[Zmey Gorynych]

Hear, hear !

[Borna]

War was in the air much before assassination. It was casus belli.

[blogen]

Why those wonderful, equally cultured, ultraeuropean Hungarian chauvinistic aristocrats

They were liberals since the early 19th century. Some part -mostly the protestant- of the petite noblesse were nationalistic.

who said no to democratic reform and since 1910 had largely made short work of croatian autonomy. What about all the fanboys of habsburgs and Greater Hungary think of their idealized gods help unleash ww1 on Europe.

This is Greater-Hungary (the de jure lands and claims of Saint Stephen's crown):


This is Middle-Hungary (de facto lands of Saint Stephen's crown):


The difference between Greater-Hungary and Hungary:


The usage of the "greater" attribute means this: de facto, de jure lands and the claims.

See the essays of Robert Seton Watson, british historian and publicist for details on austro-hungarian foreign policy,domestic policies, nationalities question and ww1. Also his book The racial problem in Hungary, for a look at how opressed and humiliated the non-magyar nationalities of Hungary were. And about the bad government, abuses and tyrranous nature of hungarian aristocratic government.

Do not lie Romanian!

The minority rights in the Hungarian kingdom were unprecedented in Europe. For example Romania attained the pre1920 Hungary minority rights level only recently and the minorities in Slovakia are in a worst situation until today, since the usage the minority language was not a crime in the Hungarian kingdom, but this is a crime in the contemporary Slovakia.

The average European country or Romania after 1920 did not acknowledge the national minorities' existence at this time. Hungary yes.
The average European country or Romania after 1920 did not acknowledge the usage of the national minorities' language in the education. Hungary yes.
The average European country or Romania after 1920 did not acknowledge the usage of the national minorities' language in the offical communication. Hungary yes.
etc.

We were the only state where the minorities existence were acknowledged and they had lot of cultural rights too.

[TheForeigner]

Why do you lie indoctrinated Magyar? I know about the Law of nationalities of 1868 and it's very genereous and progressive provisions, but I also know from the book I mentioned that those provisions were a dead letter and did not apply. None of the protected rights could be exercised and the real policy was of agressive magyarisation. Romanian, Slovakian and other non-Magyar language schools were closed, even those which were private or confessional or parochial. Or they were forced to have more magyar language courses and as little as possible of native language and this even with primary school. Needless to say the government did not give any money for the founding of new non-magyar language schools. In protestant churches you had obligation for magyar to displace slovak language for slovak congregations. An obvious violation of freedom of religion too. The Hungarian authorities will seldom allow the use of any language other than magyar in court proceedings and all legal matters or services for the ''citizens''(more like serfs for some). Also the leaders and members of non-magyar national parties and the social democrats were persecuted and often arrested and jailed on trumped up charges, especially on election days. See the case of the Sibiu trial of Romanian PNR members. Elections were rigged through intimidation of certain non-magyar ethnic and socialist voters and party members and through fraud. Tthe list of Hungarian government offences and abuse against non-magyar nationalities and against political dissidents, freedom, fairness etc, is endless.

[Borna]

Croats and Hungarians had a bright past and decent future, keep up with these chauvinistic territorial claims and only Ally left in your neighborhood will turn their back to you.

[blogen]

Why do you lie indoctrinated Magyar? I know about the Law of nationalities of 1868 and it's very genereous and progressive provisions, but I also know from the book I mentioned that those provisions were a dead letter and did not apply. None of the protected rights could be exercised and the real policy was of agressive magyarisation. Romanian, Slovakian and other non-Magyar language schools were closed, even those which were private or confessional or parochial. Or they were forced to have more magyar language courses and as little as possible of native language and this even with primary school. Needless to say the government did not give any money for the founding of new non-magyar language schools. In protestant churches you had obligation for magyar to displace slovak language for slovak congregations. An obvious violation of freedom of religion too. The Hungarian authorities will seldom allow the use of any language other than magyar in court proceedings and all legal matters or services for the ''citizens''(more like serfs for some). Also the leaders and members of non-magyar national parties and the social democrats were persecuted and often arrested and jailed on trumped up charges, especially on election days. See the case of the Sibiu trial of Romanian PNR members. Elections were rigged through intimidation of certain non-magyar ethnic and socialist voters and party members and through fraud. Tthe list of Hungarian government offences and abuse against non-magyar nationalities and against political dissidents, freedom, fairness etc, is endless.

Yes, there was magyarization and there was political opression too. The laws were generous vainly in the 19th century, the practice was ugly often. But after trianon there were more brutal romanization and slovakization and political opression in the successor states. And the duality between the guaranteed rights and their execution ceased. There were no minority rights anymore. Not for the Magyars or Germans. So you did not have a problem with the oppression, not you were the oppressors this was your problem only.

The crocodile tears are not touching.

[blogen]

Croats and Hungarians had a bright past and decent future, keep up with these chauvinistic territorial claims and only Ally left in your neighborhood will turn their back to you.

There are no Hungarian claims towards Croatians. Nobody has a problem with the Croatians and the common border. The Hungarians do not understand the MOL/INA case because of this.

[TheForeigner]

Croats and Hungarians had a bright past and decent future, keep up with these chauvinistic territorial claims and only Ally left in your neighborhood will turn their back to you.

What ''chauvinistic territorial claims'' I or any romanians on this forum or outside of it have been making? Please be specific and leave aside broad and general accusations based on nothing. I doubt croats had a bright future in a dying ,corpse-like state like Austria-Hungary. And the real chauvinists, the magyarizing nationalist Hungarian liberals were no friends of Croats, Slavs or even lower class Hungarians. I know the strongest and dominant party of the rulling oligarchy called itself liberal.LOL Only in name, were this chauvinistic, oligarchic, authoritarian,undemocratic nobles and high burgeois elitists ''liberal''.

[Borna]

What are you speaking ? I was referring to Blogen post, not yours.