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Thread: Why didn't Scythians conquer land like Turks and Mongols

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    Veteran Member Sky earth's Avatar
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    Default Why didn't Scythians conquer land like Turks and Mongols

    Considering that Scythians had the same steppe nomad lifestyles like Huns and Mongols, it seems to be that Scythians were more peaceful than Huns and Mongols because chronicles doesn't say anything about Scythians who plundered, conquered and fight against sedentary peoples like the Huns and Mongols did it. Why were Scythians more peaceful than Mongols?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sky earth View Post
    Considering that Scythians had the same steppe nomad lifestyles like Huns and Mongols, it seems to be that Scythians were more peaceful than Huns and Mongols because chronicles doesn't say anything about Scythians who plundered, conquered and fight against sedentary peoples like the Huns and Mongols did it. Why were Scythians more peaceful than Mongols?
    Actually, I think that the Scythians came to occupy the whole of the area from Xinjang in China to Poland through conquest- it's just conquest that hasn't be written about because it involved preliterate peoples. So it may as well have happened on Mars as far as the Ancient Greeks, Persians, or Chinese were concerned. That place was called the 'Scythian Wilderness' for a reason.

    But the Scytians did raid and conquer- Herodotus mentions that Darius' failed campaign in Scythia was in part due to seeking of retribution for a raid into Iran the year before.

    Herodotus mentions also several 'races" of Scythians who payed tribute to the nomadic Scythians- most notably the 'Scythian plowers" who lived on the right bank of the Dnieper River- and who modern historians conjecture were possibly the Proto-Slavs. In the 5th and 4th Centuries the Scythians expanded over the Danube and conquered the Thracians there- taking many as slaves. It was only Philip of Macedon who defeated them- I can imagine the Macedondians' shock when the Scythian king- 90 years old Ataes rode into battle against the Greek phalanx. The Scythians and later the Alans and Sarmatians behaved in a similar manner in battle- gaining only booty from dead soldiers or capturing the conqered as slaves.

    And of course, the Alans and Sarmatians were great enemies of Rome whose warrior prowess needs no description by me.
    書堂개 삼 년에 풍월 읊는다

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    Senior Member awyr dywyll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sky earth View Post
    Considering that Scythians had the same steppe nomad lifestyles like Huns and Mongols, it seems to be that Scythians were more peaceful than Huns and Mongols because chronicles doesn't say anything about Scythians who plundered, conquered and fight against sedentary peoples like the Huns and Mongols did it. Why were Scythians more peaceful than Mongols?
    I've seen in archaeologic works, some traces of Skythian invasion in Central Europe, and version that they could be involved in destroying of some eastern parts of Urnfield culture local variants.Scythians were able to make some invasion campaigns in Europe, but there not chroniclers to withess it
    Later,Scythians had not possibilities to move westward because of Celts. The latter moved from Dniester and Prut rivers headwater to south-eastern direction in 3 century BC, and they'd be guilty of Scythian final defeat on lands of Dniepr right bank

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    The Scythians should have eliminate them.

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    Senior Member awyr dywyll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Werewolf View Post
    The Scythians should have eliminate them.
    Who?

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    Son of Arvanon Scholarios's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by awyr dywyll View Post
    Who?

    I assume he/she means the Slavs. However, I guess Ukranian Slavs are probably close genetic and cultural ancestors of Scythians and Sarmatians.
    書堂개 삼 년에 풍월 읊는다

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sky earth View Post
    Considering that Scythians had the same steppe nomad lifestyles like Huns and Mongols, it seems to be that Scythians were more peaceful than Huns and Mongols because chronicles doesn't say anything about Scythians who plundered, conquered and fight against sedentary peoples like the Huns and Mongols did it. Why were Scythians more peaceful than Mongols?
    They did. They existed for at least 1000 years. They even took over huge areas




    The Scythians were feared and admired for their prowess in war and, in particular, for their horsemanship. They were among the earliest people to master the art of riding, and their mobility astonished their neighbors. The migration of the Scythians from Asia eventually brought them into the territory of the Cimmerians, who had traditionally controlled the Caucasus and the plains north of the Black Sea. In a war that lasted 30 years, the Scythians destroyed the Cimmerians and set themselves up as rulers of an empire stretching from west Persia through Syria and Judaea to the borders of Egypt. The Medes, who ruled Persia, attacked them and drove them out of Anatolia, leaving them finally in control of lands which stretched from the Persian border north through the Kuban and into southern Russia.

    The Scythians were remarkable not only for their fighting ability but also for the civilization they produced. They developed a class of wealthy aristocrats who left elaborate graves filled with richly worked articles of gold and other precious materials. This class of chieftains, the Royal Scyths, finally established themselves as rulers of the southern Russian and Crimean territories. It is there that the richest and most numerous relics of Scythian civilization have been found. Their power was sufficient to repel an invasion by the Persian king Darius I in about 513 BC.

    The Royal Scyths were headed by a sovereign whose authority was transmitted to his son. Eventually, around the time of Herodotus, the royal family intermarried with Greeks. In 339 the ruler Ateas was killed at the age of 90 while fighting Philip II of Macedonia. The community was eventually destroyed in the 2nd century BC; Palakus being the last sovereign whose name is preserved in history.

    The Scythian army was made up of freemen who received no wage other than food and clothing, but who could share in booty on presentation of the head of a slain enemy. Many warriors wore Greek-style bronze helmets and chain-mail jerkins. Their principal weapon was a double-curved bow and trefoil-shaped arrows; their swords were of the Persian type. Every Scythian had at least one personal mount, but the wealthy owned large herds of horses, chiefly Mongolian ponies. Burial customs were elaborate and called for the sacrifice of members of the dead man's household
    Scythian successes

    The first sign that steppe nomads had learned to fight well from horseback was a great raid into Asia Minor launched from the Ukraine about 690 BC by a people whom the Greeks called Cimmerians. Some, though perhaps not all, of the raiders were mounted. Not long thereafter, tribes speaking an Iranian language, which the Greeks called Scythians, conquered the Cimmerians and in turn became lords of the Ukraine. According to Herodotus, who is the principal source of information on these events, the Scyths (or at least some of them) claimed to have migrated from the Altai Mountains at the eastern extreme of the Western Steppe. This may well be so, and some modern scholars have even surmised that the barbarian invasions of China that brought the Western Chou dynasty to an end in 771 BC may have been connected with a Scythian raid from the Altai that had occurred a generation or two before Scythian migration westward to the Ukraine.

    The Eastern Steppe was, however, too barren and cold for invaders to linger. Consequently, the spread of cavalry skills and of the horse nomads' way of life to Mongolia took several centuries. We know this from Chinese records clearly showing that cavalry raids from the Mongolian steppe became chronic only in the 4th century BC. China was then divided among warring states, and border principalities had to convert to cavalry tactics in order to mount successful defenses. The first state to do so developed its cavalry force only after 325 BC.

    Long before then, however, the Scythians had erected a loose confederacy that spanned all of the Western Steppe. The high king of the tribe heading this confederacy presumably had only limited control over the far reaches of the Western Steppe. But on special occasions the Scythians could assemble large numbers of horsemen for long-distance raids, such as the one that helped to bring the Assyrian Empire to an end. After sacking the Assyrian capital of Nineveh in 612 BC, the booty-laden Scyths returned to the Ukrainian steppe, leaving Medes, Babylonians, and Egyptians to dispute the Assyrian heritage. But the threat of renewed raids from the north remained and constituted a standing problem for rulers of the Middle East thereafter.
    http://history-world.org/scythians.htm

    Their ruling class even ruled the Khazars and they themselves were absorbed into several different peoples and nationalities.

    I myself am a descendant.
    Spoiler!

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    I should mention they Sarmatians were probably a Scythian (Iranic)-Turkic blend.
    Spoiler!

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    Senior Member awyr dywyll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scholarios Chiotis View Post
    I assume he/she means the Slavs. However, I guess Ukranian Slavs are probably close genetic and cultural ancestors of Scythians and Sarmatians.
    Yes, one of the components of future Slavs were Scythians, especially Scythians-tillers, but not the only. There're so many migration waves later

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anglojew View Post
    I should mention they Sarmatians were probably a Scythian (Iranic)-Turkic blend.
    Interesting- why do you say that? Sarmatians settled as far as French Normandy (as Alans). It'd be kind of good bait for Pan-Turanists. As they already are for Pan-Slavists and Nordicists. What is it about these guys thats so appealing?


    Long after they seemingly disappeared from history, the Sarmatians retained significance in the European imagination. In the seventeenth century, most members of the Polish nobility convinced themselves that they had descended not from the Slavic tribes that had given rise to their nation’s peasantry, but rather from the Sarmatians; as a result, they widely adopted modes of dress and manners that they associated with this ancient group. The resulting style, called “Sarmatism,” remained influential until the 1800s and has not completely disappeared. In its modern guise, however, the movement has been widened, with various central and eastern European nationalists claiming Sarmatian ancestry for their entire societies. Neo-Nazis also look back to the group; a “Sarmatians” image-search on the internet yields numerous links to the infamous Stormfront website.

    The Sarmatian hold on their grassland home was apparently lost to others in the fourth century. It was around this time that certain Sarmatian groups became known to history as the Alans. From the west, the Germanic Ostrogoths moved into the steppes and took up a largely equestrian way of life, while the Huns invaded from the east, threatening Sarmatians and Ostrogoths alike. Pastoral polities of the time, however, were often quite fluid, allowing peoples of different language groups to join together, whether in semi-institutionalized confederacies or mere armed aggregations of coercion or convenience. A few Alan groups evidently joined the Huns, but most fled west into Europe to avoid domination. They moved not as a single people, however, but in numerous contingents, many of which attached themselves to the Germanic tribes that were also fleeing the Huns into the dying Western Roman Empire. Some Alans allied with the (Germanic) Burgundians to establish a strong presence in Gaul. Others moved into the Iberian Peninsula, ruling over a short-lived Alanic kingdom in the early 400s. Many more joined forces with the Vandals, accompanying them in their invasion of Roman North Africa in 429 CE.

    The various Alan groups that moved into the Roman world in the late 300s and early 400s did not maintain their language or identity for long. In most cases, they merged with the more tightly unified Germanic peoples and were eventually subsumed into the general populations of the areas in which they settled. They did leave marks, however, as suggested by numerous place names along the lines of “Alainville.” They also seem to have figured prominently in the development of the medieval ideals of chivalry.

    If C. Scott Littleton and Linda Malcor are to be believed, the cultural legacy of the Alans in Europe was profound. In a fascinating and controversial book entitled From Scythia to Camelot: A Radical Reassessment of the Legends of King Arthur, the Knights of the Round Table, and the Holy Grail (Arthurian Characters and Themes), Littleton and Malcor argue that most of the Arthurian corpus derives from the stories and myths of the Alans. Although criticized for downplaying the Celtic aspects of the legends, Littleton and Malcor present abundant evidence leading back to the Alans. Guinevere, they allow, was a Celtic figure, but Lancelot and many others seem to have a Sarmatian origin. As they show, the north Caucasus’s own epic writings, the Nart Sagas, bear a curious resemblance to the Arthurian stories, abounding in magical swords and supernatural chalices.

    http://geocurrents.info/historical-g...he-iron-people
    書堂개 삼 년에 풍월 읊는다

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