Stefan's Y-Haplogroup

[Stefan_Dusan]

So if I take this FTDNA rest would I expect to have any different results from the I2a2b that I already got on 23andme??

Probably not, 23andMe had me as I2 probably because I2c is such recent discovery, 23andMe didn't run tests against it. However, you will find more specific matches on your Y-DNA, so you can see who your real male progenitor was. 23andMe focus on autosomal, but we from the Balkans only care about our one, paternal line

[Drawing-slim]

I think Chechens are primarily J2a something, Jaxman has embraced his Chechen paternal haplogroup

As to I2c, if I am, some sources say it originated in western German and spread to Caucasus, some sources say it originated in Caucasus and spread to Europe, it's all mind fuck.

If it originated in Europe and spread there, you being from Kosovo it just means that you're Albanian descend from Alexander the Great's soldiers that went there with him. There's no other explanation.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

Like I said bro, you are megalithic farmer stock, not newcomer.

[Stefan_Dusan]

If it originated in Europe and spread there, you being from Kosovo it just means that you're Albanian descend from Alexander the Great's soldiers that went there with him. There's no other explanation.

It seems from all my readings that I2c, the oldest branch of I, only survived in very isolated places. On Crete, it's above 5% which may sound low, but for I2c is notably high. In the Caucasus it survives only in isolated mountain valleys, of which all of the Georgian nobility seem to be derived. In Western Europe, it seems to only survive in the Scottish alps, the western facing side, safe from Viking invasions. It seems the men who preserved this old haplogroup did by living in isolated mountains or islands.

Which brings to mine, we say came to Kosovo by 1292 from the mountains of Albania. We would have been isolated group to preserve one of Europe's oldest haplogroup. Or so I tell myself

Maybe I need to donate sperm and make sure I reintroduce I2c to the world. It could be my promotional, like some say attractive medicine doctor, I say rarest and oldest and most original European haplogroup

[Stefan_Dusan]

So this is starting to become a blog, but I literally got chilled from excitement reading this:

Distribution of I2c:

My major sources and their results:
Primary distribution data from I2*, new ISOGG I2b and I2c Haplogroup Project
6% in Crete per King et al 2008
4% in Kazbegi per Wells et al 2001, 0% among other Georgians
9% among Georgians per 23andMe
0% among Georgians per Litvinov et al 2010
0% among Georgians per Battaglia et al 2008
4% among Armenians per Wells et al 2001
4% among Armenians per Armenian DNA Project
non-trace levels among Emmentalers per The Swiss Anabaptist DNA Project
non-trace levels among Clan Wallace per Wallace-WALLIS Y-DNA Project

So besides nobility of Armenian and Georgian families, and Cretan farmers it's found in the Emmentalers (Swiss Mountaineers) and the Wallace Clan (Scottish Mountaineers). It can be said with undoubted confidence that I2c is the haplogroup of the mountains, being found in the Caucasus Alps, Swiss Alps, Scottish Alps, and now Dinaric Alps

In me is piece of history from ancient European days only preserved in the mountains.

[Stefan_Dusan]

Crete also happens to be mountains:

Crete is mountainous, and its character is defined by a high mountain range crossing from west to east, formed by three different groups of mountains:

Not to mention an isolated Greek island in Mediterranean, with strong ancient character. I2c, the ancient haplogroup of the mountains!

[Stefan_Dusan]

So I actually got all my 37 markers, the Serbian geneticist is going with I2c but he can't place me in a branch. Furthermore, I matched 3 Armenians from Turkey in the first 12 markers I got back, with the subsequent 25 markers, I no longer match them anymore, never mind I don't match anyone. With 37 markers my haplogroup is just orbiting by itself in genetic space.

Hello, my friend.

I just saw you got all 37 markers. All three guys you matched with on 12 are now no more your matches, nor on 25 nor on 37. Is I told you might be. You are not close to them. And I see all three of them are Armenians,

Yes, it is normal you match completely with no one. It si normal even for much bigger HGs. And I2c is very rare, comparing with many others.

I am not sure which branch you are. You can se it here, on project I2c. Maybe you are indeed closest to Caucasian branch, but it is not 100% sure. You are not very close to those three Armenian guys from Turkey.
And branch names constantly change, I see even D and G subranches, so I am not sure it still stands division on ABC.

He went on and announced my results, as the first Serb with I2c, he cautioned and this is translated from Serbian:

His finding is very puzzling, not to be classified clearly and unambiguously in any subgroup.

[Stefan_Dusan]

I might be a new subgroup, discovered right here in Member on Apricity

My STR's:

DYS393 - 14
DYS390 - 24
DYS1 - 15
DYS391 - 10
DYS385 - 12-14
DYS426 - 11
DYS388 - 13
DYS439 - 11
DYS389I - 13
DYS392 - 11
DYS389II - 30
DYS458 - 19
DYS459 - 8-8
DYS455 - 11
DYS454 - 11
DYS447 - 24
DYS437 - 15
DYS448 - 20
DYS449 - 34
DYS464 - 11-14-16-16
DYS460 - 11
Y-GATA-H4 - 10
YCAII - 19-21
DYS456 - 14
DYS607 - 14
DYS576 - 17
DYS570 - 20
CDY - 33-38
DYS442 - 12
DYS438 - 10

While it's cool to be such a rare, ancient, and mysterious haplogroup at same time it would be cool to get a bunch of matches

[Artek]

Pretty cool to be a relic, eh? . Maybe they will fund you an YFull

[Stefan_Dusan]

So I'm following the Serbians go back and forth on my result, this is one response, translated:

Really really strange results, but I think there is no doubt that it belongs to haplogroup I2c L596 or L597.

This haplogroup certainly falls into the category of "indigenous haplogroup" and certainly did not come with the Slavs. We find this in Iran, Armenia, Georgia, Turkey, the Balkans, the western Mediterranean, including the British Isles. Recalls this follows somewhat the distribution J2b M205. Just much much more rare. What a puzzle

Another one goes:

Haplogroup I2c is very rare and in it's highest percenteges on areas of this maps it doesn't go higher than 5% except on Crete where goes up to 10%, which would make sense, because it is possible that ancient Cretans (because of greek Mycenean conquest of Crete 1700 BC) were main carriers of this HaploGroup, it's was brought there by greeks, and that's more reliable theory to whom this I2c aplogroup belonged, means it's very possible that Mycenean greeks were it's carriers, just look where it spread itself.

This is also very exciting but disturbing at the same time. I'm a Serb who doesn't descend from Serbs at some point in history!?!?! Who were we maybe 2000 years ago? Were we in the Balkans? Carpathians? Greece? Caucasus?

The rarity of this haplogroup is as much frustrating as its rewarding. I can't have an ahah moment, but at the same time I swell with pride. The more I dig at my farther's lineage, the more mysterious it is. So old, it's left so few traces, so many missing pieces that every theory makes sense and doesn't at same time.

I still remember one ritual we have, when we slaughter lamb, we put the blood raw in rakija and drink. Besides being brutal ritual, I remembered it because as a kid i was disgusted by it, and one of my relatives, probably drunk, tries to boost my pride, and he points at the villages all around, and says none of them have this tradition. This is the tradition of your family, and it's an ancient tradition passed from uninterrupted lines of forefathers. I learned later this tradition later is very very anti Christian and one priest got into a fight with my father on our slava while witnessing it.

Do people from Caucasus, do Greeks, maybe Cretans, do something resemble this tradition!?!?!