Wallace Clan

[Smaug]

Also no tougher people than the Serbian mountain people. We are the only ones recognized by western sources to have kept our independence of the Ottoman Empire, an empire that threatened Vienna, and conquered Mecca. We had the most spectacular killings of Ottoman soldiery (be they actual Turks, Albanians in their service, or other Balkan Ottomans). And in 1700s these Serbs principally from Brda spread into what is now Shumadija, lowlands of forests, and instigated several rebellions started in late 1700s, but mostly major one is 1804. This rebellion in 1804 is the first rebellion of a people against the Ottoman Empire, and it marked the end of Ottoman. Serbs were the first to get our independence in that 1804

What does it have to do with this thread?

[Stefan_Dusan]

What does it have to do with this thread?

Not much really, just since people were talking about mountain folk, I was giving my own heritage as a side note. This is a forum where people post for fun, to learn about each other, we are not here to follow some strict rules handed down about you must be on topic. This is not school, and if I want to say something I will. No need to take your tone with me, I'm not your kid.

[Smaug]

Not much really, just since people were talking about mountain folk, I was giving my own heritage as a side note. This is a forum where people post for fun, to learn about each other, we are not here to follow some strict rules handed down about you must be on topic. This is not school, and if I want to say something I will. No need to take your tone with me, I'm not your kid.

What tone have I used? I was just asking, because at first it seemed it was being stablished a connection between the Wallaces and Serbian Highlanders.

[Stefan_Dusan]

What tone have I used? I was just asking, because at first it seemed it was being stablished a connection between the Wallaces and Serbian Highlanders.

Then my apology I thought you were telling me off for straying an inch off topic.

I have no illusions that I2c is nothing but a very ancient connection. I just wanted to celebrate it here and bring some awareness to apricity about Wallace Clan

[Smaug]

Then my apology I thought you were telling me off for straying an inch off topic.

I have no illusions that I2c is nothing but a very ancient connection. I just wanted to celebrate it here and bring some awareness to apricity about Wallace Clan

No problems.

[Kastrioti1443]

'' Serbian Highlander'' is a term invented nowdays since serbs have never been mountain people, even though this is a great desire of your's. If you are talking about montenigrins , they do not know what they are, and a lot of them used to be Albanian Highlanders slavicised by the marriage with slavic women and orthodox pan-slavist church.

The only people in Balkans to have been literally free from ottoman power were the Albanian Highlanders, where literally no Turk has ever stepped in their lands. You are too much into Wikipedia stuff and those made up maps posted there.

There were a lot of rebellions done before 1804, here you have some tens of Albanian revolts in the end of the 15th century and all along 16th and 17th centuries. It is in Albanian ( it is a big shame we have not translated these articles in english_) but everyone can use google translate:

http://sq.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kryengr...(shek_XVI-XVI)

Serbs got an autonomy in 1829 and indipendence in 1860, far away from the year 1804.

This had nothing to do with this thread, but some things must be said right, and no create here romantic delusions.

[Stefan_Dusan]

'' Serbian Highlander'' is a term invented nowdays since serbs have never been mountain people, even though this is a great desire of your's. If you are talking about montenigrins , they do not know what they are, and a lot of them used to be Albanian Highlanders slavicised by the marriage with slavic women and orthodox pan-slavist church.

Serbian people came from the Carpathian mountains and were settled in Herzegovina, Montenegro, and Sandzhak by the Byzantines to fight Avars, rule over the other slavs, and be a bulwark against the Bulgarian empire. We were the original mountain people of the Balkans.

The Serbian highlanders are those of Lika, Herzegovina, and Brda. Old Montenegro, Montenegrins in other words, I leave out because they often don't consider themselves Serbians first but rather Montenegrins. The Brda clans all consider themselves Serbians first, and only in recent history were incorporated into a Montenegrin kingdom, up until 1900s, it used to be referred to as Montenegro and Brda. Herzegovina and Lika (up to the recent war) remain Serbian in character. The Serbians of Lika maintained their autonomy from Austria-Hungary and were used as highway men for that empire.

The only people in Balkans to have been literally free from ottoman power were the Albanian Highlanders, where literally no Turk has ever stepped in their lands. You are too much into Wikipedia stuff and those made up maps posted there.

Lol, plenty of Albanian highlanders are Muslim, indicated Turkish influence. The only people who were recognized as independent by Westerners (outside of Greek) were Montenegrins, Serbs of Brda. Maybe some Malesors nestled in the very north next to Serbian and Montenegrin tribes were independent as those, alongs with Mirdite happen to be most Catholic. Read this book (http://www.amazon.com/Blood-Revenge-.../dp/081221241X) it clearly mentions the Montenegrins and Serbians as the first and only autonomous people of Ottomans. Started with Montenegrins of Cheklin and then Serbs of Vasojevic.

There were a lot of rebellions done before 1804,

As there were Serbians. But 1804 marked the first time the people got independence.

Serbs got an autonomy in 1829 and indipendence in 1860, far away from the year 1804.

Serbs got their independence in 1804, we created our own government, first university in the Balkans. This independence lasted for 10 years, and finally was crushed in 1813.

In 1814 there was another rebellion which was crushed.

In 1815, there was another rebellion, which the Ottomans sued for peace, Serbians there gained full autonomy in 1817, which involved into defacto independence by 1830s when Milosh Obrenovac decided to make the first constitution in the Balkans:

1835 - First Constitution in the Balkans is written in the Principality of Serbia. It introduces Serbian Parliament on the regular basis. Obrenović dynasty is a legal heir to the throne of Serbia. It also describes Serbia as an independent parliamentary Principality, which outrages Ottoman Empire and Habsburg monarchy.

The Ottomans bitched, but they did not re-invade. Serbia would then go on and spread rebellion to Herzegovina, and even declare war on the Ottoman Empire and take Nish and Toplica area. Due to international politics, our independence, despite this constitution in 1835, wasn't recognized until 1878, due to Austria-Hungary blocking us!

But our glory cannot be denied. We were the first Balkan people to achieve independence, the first Balkan people and arguably only to achieve autonomy for much of the empire. We were the only Balkan people used en-masse by both Hungarians and Austrians as border guards, as we lived in military families.

[Kastrioti1443]

I appreciate your will to write so much stuff really... i used to be like you, and spend a lo of energy writing and defending my facts and ideas. However i am really tired now, for many reasons and i will not write a long reply...

Serbs are not mountain people in general. Even the serbs of montenegro and hercegovina, the only serbian highlanders are mostly assimilated vlachs, especially the ones of hercegovina, the other serbs in general used to be peaceful farmers.

There has ever been a '' montengirins'' ethnicity before 1860, an ethnicity which was mailny created by russia, montenegro was a place dedvided between slavophonic tribes andalbanian highlanders, southern montengro has always been an albanian hinterland. With the passing of time, albanian malsors married slavic women, the ones who were orthodox during the dark ages of ottoman occupation became even more pleasent towards slavs and with the passing of time they became '' montenigrins'' .

The conclusion is that despite those '' western facts'' you p[resent here, people know history of balkans, i do not need an english historian to tell me who albanian highlanders are. 30% of albanian highlanders are muslim, but that means nothing, they were 100% free from ottoman occupation, dude really you from america can not tell me who my people are. Albanian highlanders everywhere, from Podogrica to western kosovo, covering all northern albania and northwestern fyrom were totally free, they didn't take any order from ottomans, didn't pay any tax and revolted tens of times. '' Montengirins'' being of this blood, they were also rebellious, but not comparable to albanian highlanders who were one ethnicity and were i constant war with ottomans from the end of the 15th century. Malsia e Madhe and Mirdita are 2 catholic regions whch were 100% free it is true,. but also Muslim Dibra and Dibra e Madhe, the muslim highlands of Gjakova and Tropoja were as much free as they were. If you are asking why they were muslim, this was mostly do to economical interests, nothing to do with rule.

[Stefan_Dusan]

The conclusion is that despite those '' western facts'' you p[resent here, people know history of balkans, i do not need an english historian to tell me who albanian highlanders are. 30% of albanian highlanders are muslim, but that means nothing, they were 100% free from ottoman occupation, dude really you from america can not tell me who my people are. Albanian highlanders everywhere, from Podogrica to western kosovo, covering all northern albania and northwestern fyrom were totally free, they didn't take any order from ottomans, didn't pay any tax and revolted tens of times. '' Montengirins'' being of this blood, they were also rebellious, but not comparable to albanian highlanders who were one ethnicity and were i constant war with ottomans from the end of the 15th century. Malsia e Madhe and Mirdita are 2 catholic regions whch were 100% free it is true,. but also Muslim Dibra and Dibra e Madhe, the muslim highlands of Gjakova and Tropoja were as much free as they were. If you are asking why they were muslim, this was mostly do to economical interests, nothing to do with rule.

It has everything to do with rule. To be part of the Ottoman administration, they had to convert to Islam. The Ottomans set a rule, they followed it by changing religions. So it's ridiculous to me to say they were 100% free of rule when they actively follow Ottoman rules and turn themselves into Muslims.

Now high in the mountains everywhere, authority is very weak. But those areas are not so much interesting as eventually these people had to descend to lowlands which was full of Ottoman troops, and this is why Albanian highlanders had converts to Islam. And this is why Albanian lowlanders were almost unanimously Muslim.

The first time Turks were kicked out once and for all were Serbian rebellions in both Smederevo Sandzhak and Montenegro.

[Eileanach]

Braveheart is a fictionalised film about William Wallace. They're probably of Welsh origin.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wallace_(surname)

Ah, no, they'd have been Cumbrian actually, not Welsh. Cumbrians were the northernmost extension of Brittonic speakers, part of the old Strathclyde kingdom in southwest Scotland (also known as Alt Clud). To the Gaelic speakers of Scotland, anyone speaking Brittonic would have been labeled as foreigner or Welsh.

So his origins would rather have been southwest Scottish/ parts of northwest England.