Well thank you - to begin...

[EngliscNative]

Salve EngliscNative, abbyssus quod expectata...

Thank you Germanicus.

That is good prose indeed..

My heritage on the paternal side is Lancashire, that should confound Wulfhere even the more!

[Wulfhere]

Thank you Germanicus.

That is good prose indeed..

My heritage on the paternal side is Lancashire, that should confound Wulfhere even the more!

How would it confound me? It simply makes you mixed, that's all.

[Germanicus]

I am an Anglo-Saxon,

Unless you have the results of a DNA test, you could be from anywhere in Europe.
Even with my unique AngloSaxon surname i can claim nothing until i have been verified as being OF Germanic Heritage by DNA testing.
Post a picture on our Members pictures Thread so our expert members can give you a once over by claffifying you?

My surname is AngloSaxon in origin and comes from a Lancastrian town.

[EngliscNative]

You have been misinformed. There was no such flag as a white dragon on a red field - nor indeed any flag at all recognised by all the Anglo-Saxons. I agree though that the St George flag was introduced by the Normans and has nothing to do with us either.

I'm English, i.e. an Angle. I'm an Angle because I'm Mercian. I don't wish to see people who aren't entitled to it claim to be English.

Wulfhere you will find this quite educational:-

http://www.whitedragonflagofengland.com/

[Wulfhere]

Wulfhere you will find this quite educational:-

http://www.whitedragonflagofengland.com/

I already know about that site and I'm sorry to have to inform you that it's a peddler of misinformation. There was no such flag. Wessex used a dragon flag, but other kingdoms had their own flags.

[Osweo]

Going getting tuff here - my lineage is mixed Englisc/h I currently live in what would have been Wessex,

Ah, a fellow invader! I only came down here to pillage the land of the West Saxons a few months ago myself! I'm in deepest darkest Devon - what about yourself?

The White Dragon was the flag of Wessex, and as such is only appropriate for Saxons. If you're from Wessex, you're a Saxon.

If you're from Wessex and this is the EIGHTH CENTURY, you're most likely a Saxon. If you're a modern Englishman, chances are you're going to have a few ancestors from beyond that ancient polity.

As I Mercian, of course, I'm an Angle - the Angles being the true English.

LOL. Mercia absorbed a lot of Saxon territories, and pretending that no diffusion of 'non-Mercian' blood has taken place since the 600s is a bit of a joke.

Wasn't Mercia a Saxon kingdom ?

The dynasty, and the bulk of the settlers of the original core, by the Trent, were Angles.

I am an Anglo-Saxon, which may mean I am one or the other or both, if you can refer me to a source of information to determine which exactly - great, it would likely be the same source where you have determined that you are pure Angle.

Don't worry about it; these categories are of mostly antiquarian significance now. 'English' is good enough for me. Further precision, based on the status quo a millennium and a bit ago is little short of impossible.

You have been misinformed. There was no such flag as a white dragon on a red field - nor indeed any flag at all recognised by all the Anglo-Saxons.

The chief, if not sole, source for the White Dragon, is the Welsh legend of Merlin's boyhood prophecy. In that milieu, the beast was immediately recognised as a symbol of the invading Germanics. This suggests at least some historical reality behind it. Anyroad, most symbolism is built on bollocks in the first place, so a little judicious innovation won't kill us, especially if it's in a good cause.

I agree though that the St George flag was introduced by the Normans and has nothing to do with us either.

Well, not so much introduced by Normans, as adopted more or less spontaneously by partially anglicised Normans and English under their rule. Given that the Normans have since fused with us, I don't recognise it as an alien trapping at all.

I'm English, i.e. an Angle. I'm an Angle because I'm Mercian. I don't wish to see people who aren't entitled to it claim to be English.

'Englisc' was far less specifically used than you seem to imagine. The Earls of Bernicia, right up on the Scotch Border, were called 'Kings of the North Saxons' at times, many Angles signed themselves as 'Saxon' in documents, and vice versa. The original settlements of the Fifth Century were hardly divided sharply into ethnic divisions. Indeed, members of other tribes than the Angles, Saxons, Jutes or even Frisians were present at the Adventus Saxonum.

My heritage on the paternal side is Lancashire, that should confound Wulfhere even the more!

Why din't tha bluddy say so, Lad! A'm a Manc, meself. Ey up! Whereabouts was your Dad from?

How would it confound me? It simply makes you mixed, that's all.

What a gawp.

Unless you have the results of a DNA test, you could be from anywhere in Europe.
Even with my unique AngloSaxon surname i can claim nothing until i have been verified as being OF Germanic Heritage by DNA testing.

That's bollocks, mate.
If you're grandparents are indubitably English, I can guarantee that you will have Germanic ancestors. Perhaps in the Tenth Century this wouldn't have been so easy to say in some regions, but genetic exchange since then definitely means that you will have a fair bit of Angle, Saxon and Norseman in you. Probably even Norman, by now. Anthropometry and Genetics should be regarded more as curious trivia in this matter, not defining 'proof'.

[Thorum]

Welcome English cousin!!

[Osweo]

Oh, a meant te say; on the White Dragon topic, a quick review of English dragon lore might be worthwhile. The White Worm, or Lambton Worm, especially comes to mind.

I might mention a fellow Mancunian in this regard, his book is online somewhere for free:

ON SOME ANCIENT BATTLE-FIELDS in LANCASHIRE
AND THEIR
Historical, legendary, and aesthetic appreciation.

CHARLES HARDWICK, M
1882

[EngliscNative]

Why din't tha bluddy say so, Lad! A'm a Manc, meself. Ey up! Whereabouts was your Dad from?

Well I suppose I turn out to be a bit of an English(c) mongrel - not all bad tho - I find Mancunians to be some very friendly people, always a smile no matter. Me Dad - the great all English seaside resort, and he had me believe home of the "hot-pot" Blackpool.
I however, have been down sarf since birth (other than my American adventure).

I have to confess I am learning more than I bargained for here, which is good, even if through (some) acrimonious exchanges... I never paid a never mind to History in my younger years.

In all this and at this crucial time, I sincerely feel we need and must come together for the common good for us all, we English(c) must unite and regain England, perhaps then after, individual sovereign territories may prevail... but then I don't know where the hell I fit in. I may be a Mercian for all I know, I have blood ties in that area too! But then do we really want to reinstate many Monarchs or ruling bodies with power over small areas...

For me NO... I just wish to be known as Ethnic English(c), I respect the individuality and differences (accents, customs and all) of Brethren throughout our nation, and in return respectfully request of all, that, I be known as an Ethnic Anglo-Saxon Engliscman, PROUD and ANGRY at what is being done to our nation. The betrayal of "our" govmnt - career politicians who don't give a toss about us, now we have "minority" MP's etc... it can only get worse... UNITY and PRIDE are our tools of battle in this one.

We are still, in all, the majority ethnically, BUT only if we unite. We are rapidly being outbred and dispersed, our views are being suppressed.

By declaring our English(c) pride we are immediately accused of racism and shut up. I for one won't shut up any more!

I don't want my Kids or Grandkids having to grow up in a muslim controlled nation - like it or not that's where it's going, I have read with the current trend within the bounds of this century.


With respect to all...

[Wulfhere]

Why din't tha bluddy say so, Lad! A'm a Manc, meself. Ey up! Whereabouts was your Dad from?

Well I suppose I turn out to be a bit of an English(c) mongrel - not all bad tho - I find Mancunians to be some very friendly people, always a smile no matter. Me Dad - the great all English seaside resort, and he had me believe home of the "hot-pot" Blackpool.
I however, have been down sarf since birth (other than my American adventure).

I have to confess I am learning more than I bargained for here, which is good, even if through (some) acrimonious exchanges... I never paid a never mind to History in my younger years.

In all this and at this crucial time, I sincerely feel we need and must come together for the common good for us all, we English(c) must unite and regain England, perhaps then after, individual sovereign territories may prevail... but then I don't know where the hell I fit in. I may be a Mercian for all I know, I have blood ties in that area too! But then do we really want to reinstate many Monarchs or ruling bodies with power over small areas...

For me NO... I just wish to be known as Ethnic English(c), I respect the individuality and differences (accents, customs and all) of Brethren throughout our nation, and in return respectfully request of all, that, I be known as an Ethnic Anglo-Saxon Engliscman, PROUD and ANGRY at what is being done to our nation. The betrayal of "our" govmnt - career politicians who don't give a toss about us, now we have "minority" MP's etc... it can only get worse... UNITY and PRIDE are our tools of battle in this one.

We are still, in all, the majority ethnically, BUT only if we unite. We are rapidly being outbred and dispersed, our views are being suppressed.

By declaring our English(c) pride we are immediately accused of racism and shut up. I for one won't shut up any more!

I don't want my Kids or Grandkids having to grow up in a muslim controlled nation - like it or not that's where it's going, I have read with the current trend within the bounds of this century.


With respect to all...

In essence, of course, I agree. I just happen to think that heptarchy is the best form of government for England.