Are Greek Mediterraneans Orientalid mixed 'East Meds'?

[Sikeliot]

Based on some autosomal results I've seen, yes they do.

I think it shows in their phenotype, also.
Not saying it shows in all of them or anything, but in many it does.

[Alessio]

Of course I wasn't referring to the ''modern Turks'' but to the ancient population living there. I'm sure there were some differences in Anatolia though and especially between the Greeks living mainly on the western parts of Anatolia and others like the Hitites for example, who lived more in central and eastern parts of Anatolia, but I'm not sure of that.

It's not an unacceptable theory though that Southern Italians and Sicilians alike preserved a lot of their genetic makeup throughout history though compared with Greek Islanders.

I am sure

Either way I think the one thing to keep in mind is that Anatolian Greeks, Greek islands, Cretans, and southern Italians are all similar, so that the geographic proximity of Greek islands to modern Turkey doesn't say anything about their genes, since the ancient people living in western Asia Minor were closer to modern Greeks than to modern Turks, who are a hodge podge of everything.

[Sikeliot]

It's not an unacceptable theory though that Southern Italians and Sicilians alike preserved a lot of their genetic makeup throughout history though.

The point is we have no way of proving anything about their genes. We know that the Sikels (the Italic group of the island) were banished from the cities along the east coast, and moved inland; so if they did leave any genetic legacy it'd be in inland Sicily, which today is not as populated. Still, based on my own findings, Abruzzo (which is a good proxy) is still an East Med population, so it wouldn't be easy to tell their genes from Greeks.

I am basically arguing that regardless of who you believe was the main population, Sicily and southern Italy were always an "East Med" population, perhaps even more so than today since there is minor Lombard and Norman influence and whatnot.

I also do believe that Phoenician influence is present on the west coast, hence the people in Oracle getting matches with the Levant, which is not true for Cretans, eastern Sicilians, etc.

[Shah-Jehan]

I am sure

Either way I think the one thing to keep in mind is that Anatolian Greeks, Greek islands, Cretans, and southern Italians are all similar, so that the geographic proximity of Greek islands to modern Turkey doesn't say anything about their genes, since the ancient people living in western Asia Minor were closer to modern Greeks than to modern Turks, who are a hodge podge of everything.

That is BS, it would be like saying the ancient genes of the Azerbaijan is more related to Balochis than to modern Azerbaijani Turks.

[Dianatomia]

That is BS, it would be like saying the ancient genes of the Azerbaijan is more related to Balochis than to modern Azerbaijani Turks.

Ancient Anatolians, who were not uniform in anthropology, culture and language, were the neighbors of what was to become the Greek peoples living around the Aegean. Ancient Greeks, or pre-Greeks to be more precise, made their way into the Aegean region, Crete, Greece from Anatolia and the Balkans. Minoans i.e. originally had Anatolian roots. Similarly, even in pre-history many tribes from the Balkan region made their way into Anatolia as well. Phrygians for example had Balkan origin and spoke an IE language akin to Greek. The peoples of Western Anatolia, Greece/Balkans and also Southern Italy were genetically quite similar in pre-history and have received different waves ever since.

In the last few centuries Western Anatolians/Turks received many invaders with quite exotic features relative to the history of the region. Central Asian genes, accompanied with other oriental genes made their way in the region through the Ottomans who settled there and mixed with the indigenous peoples who took their language and religion. It could be 20 to 30 % of the population, but any percentage over 10% of exotic genes carried by the Ottomans would shift the people of Western Anatolia more to the east and away from the traditional Eur-Anatolian mix. Whether the Greeks today are closer to Ancient Western Anatolians depends on the amount of new genes the Ottomans brought in Western Anatolia. There is little doubt though, that whatever Western Anatolians are today, they surely would have clustered more to the West (i.e.towards the Greeks) than they do now.

[Borna]

YES

[Styrian Mujo]

Ofcourse. Modern SE Europeans are strongly influenced by Oriental/Afro-Asiatic peoples over the last 2000 years. Greeks in particular are almost as Oriental/Afro-Asiatic as Italians and Jews both in culture and phenotype.

[Sakis]

Ofcourse. Modern SE Europeans are strongly influenced by Oriental/Afro-Asiatic peoples over the last 2000 years. Greeks in particular are almost as Oriental/Afro-Asiatic as Italians and Jews both in culture and phenotype.

[Kamal900]

The guy is a Nordicst dude. Anyway, i always thought that east-Med is someone who has a levantine look or something. I mean, when me and my dad went to cyprus the people there mistook us as them. Not saying that they aren't greek or something, but like the pontic people of the black sea region of anatolia, they are mostly hellenized natives with some greek admixture.
Me:



Dad:

[Sakis]

The guy is a Nordicst dude. Anyway, i always thought that east-Med is someone who has a levantine look or something. I mean, when me and my dad went to cyprus the people there mistook us as them. Not saying that they aren't greek or something, but like the pontic people of the black sea region of anatolia, they are mostly hellenized natives with some greek admixture.
Me:



Dad:

Both of you look nothing like east meds.