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Thread: Where do atheists come from?

  1. #111
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    my mommy said they come from hell.

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    Banned Johnston's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guapo View Post
    my mommy said they come from hell.
    Maybe they cum from here, because they end up somewhere:

    [YOUTUBE]UTgneLluypg[/YOUTUBE]

  3. #113
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    Of course educating someone is going to make them more susceptable to more education.

    This article disproves itself. It's stating that educated = intellegent. It doesn't. Educated = trained.

    Of course someone in high school is going to be less susceptable to the ideas of religion and as the article holds in example, telepathy. They are still resisting at that point. They are less broken in, if you will.

    For example, most of the theories that einstein put forth have not been proven, yet many of his unproven ones are taught as fact. Taken on faith, because he nailed a couple of biggies.

    His way out ideas are far more likely than anything you'll hear in the arts departments or antropology. Universtiy is a church. Why on earth would anyone walk out of there an atheist?
    Last edited by Turkey; 09-06-2011 at 08:37 AM. Reason: strange paragraphs

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    Senior Member Quasimodem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by turkey lurkey View Post
    For example, most of the theories that einstein put forth have not been proven, yet many of his unproven ones are taught as fact. Taken on faith, because he nailed a couple of biggies.
    Could you provide some examples?

    Also, nothing is really "proven" in science. Proof is for mathematics and alcohol, as the saying goes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steal View Post
    From theists
    Is that why they are so cranky?


    Oh, evil, intellectually non-hygienic ideas? Let's wipe this disease it out! Thought control for everybody!

  6. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnston View Post
    What evidence is that?
    That Hitler was a theist.

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnston View Post
    Everybody acquainted with Hitler's biography knows he was ambivalent about religion, and some would say self-contradictory. This is exactly how you could say Henry VIII was. Hitler supported the Pope because he was Austrian, which upset the Germans, who were Lutheran. Henry VIII supported the Pope and this upset Luther himself. Both repudiated the form of Christianity they were raised in, while you repudiate it altogether.
    Hitler was probably a lapsed Catholic. But he continued to believe in the Christian God.

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnston View Post
    Critics of one ideology can bash it and then find themselves supporting it. Some cannot make up their minds and go back and forth. This is nothing new.

    I bet you have changed your mind before, or am I wrong?
    So what? What's your point?

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnston View Post
    Are you a bigot? You seem to be more dogmatic about Hitler and religion and general than even he was about religion, but perhaps his dogmatism about Jews was stronger than yours concerning religion.
    Pointing out the historical fact that Hitler was a theist is not dogmatic. Demanding proof of a truth claim is not dogmatic. Sorry to have to break that to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnston View Post
    Your signature is irrelevant. Jesus does not have to save me in order for me to consider *Him* to be the Son. I also believe Alexander the Great was a demigod. I see no contradiction here. I do not care one way or the other about John 3:16. You can obsess if you like.
    Whatever floats your boat, dude. You can worship Jesus or Alexander the Great or the Easter Bunny for all I care.


    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" -- Epicurus

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    Quote Originally Posted by Apollonaris View Post
    That Hitler was a theist.



    Hitler was probably a lapsed Catholic. But he continued to believe in the Christian God.



    So what? What's your point?



    Pointing out the historical fact that Hitler was a theist is not dogmatic. Demanding proof of a truth claim is not dogmatic. Sorry to have to break that to you.



    Whatever floats your boat, dude. You can worship Jesus or Alexander the Great or the Easter Bunny for all I care.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religio...ects_of_Nazism

    Hitler's religion, if anything, was fascist communism, aka national socialism. Anything that spoke both of class warfare and eugenics in the same heartbeat would work. He was a master of soundbytes and impressionist imagery. Religious affiliation was cultural, as it is now. Christianity did not tell Hitler to do what he did, no more than Christianity informed Constantine and Theodosious to be favorable to Christians. It was policy!

    Irish Catholics don't go to church and hate the Pope, have abortions, etc. How does this make them Christian, despite their association? Their own religion tells them not to do so, but this is how they choose to live. Naziism was not prescribed by the Vatican. There are no secret orders hidden in some Vienna vault. On the contrary, the Holy See preferred the Habsburg Restoration than anything since 1918.

    Hitler was a dissident in Austria, and no son of Germany. He instilled Austrian dissidence onto Germany, against the Prussian establishment, which Austrians considered inferior, regardless of the religious divide. He did not re-establish Catholicism in Germany, which is what the Habsburgs would have done. Thus, Hitler was preferring to mention non-religious aspects of unity, like race, and the "Indo-Germanisch" heritage of the Swastika.

    What Crucifix was that? Where has the Swastika ever been flown in the Vatican City, other than put there by Mussolini's thugs? You are an Italian, no? Fascism runs in your blood, and has nothing to do with religion, because Italians had the fasces in pre-Christian days, very, very importantly at the center of Roman ideals of empire. Blame the dirty Germans if it will make you feel superior to those barbarians. You civilized buffoon.

    You blame religion for far too much, and account humanity's own position far too low. This is a theist position in and of itself you hold, where mankind is not the product of his own abilities and aspirations, but subject to the Fates/Predestination (and even then, do not fulfill their destinies/prophecies). You quote Epicurus and suppose to have Apollonarian views, but fail to distinguish humanistic and theistic mindsets on life. You have the latter, as evidenced in your arguments here.

    Throwing more oil on the fire won't put it out, just because you have a lower grade of fuel.
    Last edited by Johnston; 09-06-2011 at 09:09 AM.

  8. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quasimodem View Post

    Also, nothing is really "proven" in science.
    exactly

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    Quote Originally Posted by Apollonaris View Post
    Prove it. I've provided evidence to the contrary.
    The evidence you provided was compiled by an atheist Jew and only quoted public statements Hitler made. It's completely misleading and serves only the purpose of damning Christianity. How can you honestly not see the clear polemical intent of that article?

    Let me put this before you: how could Hitler have possibly maintained power in Germany if he had been an open atheist. Consider, especially, that he was doing battled chiefly with godless Communists and secular Jews, two groups known for their hatred of Christianity. How could he possibly rise and maintain power repeating slogans like

    Pure Christianity — the Christianity of the catacombs — is concerned with translating the Christian doctrine into facts. It leads quite simply to the annihilation of mankind. It is merely whole hearted Bolshevism, under a tinsel of metaphysics.
    It is deplorable that the Bible should have been translated into German, and that the whole of the German Folk should have thus become exposed to the whole of this Jewish mumbo jumbo.
    Christianity is the worst of the regressions that mankind can ever have undergone, and it's the Jew who, thanks to this diabolic invention, has thrown him back 15 centuries. The only thing that would be still worse would be victory for the Jew through Bolshevism.
    I begin to lose all respect for humanity when I think that some people on our side, ministers or generals, are capable of believing that we cannot triumph without the blessing of the Church. Such a notion is excusable in little children who have learned nothing else.
    You are altogether giving him too little credit as a genius of propaganda and manipulation of the thick-skulled masses. Only in his private circles did Hitler ever bare his true mind, because he knew he'd never be victorious with the broad masses telling them they were like "little children" or that their God was a "diabolical invention of the Jew". You are, by believing the communist tripe this journalist has hurled against the Church, falling into the same trap the Germans fell into in the 1930s: you choose to believe Hitler the Poster rather than examine Hitler the Man.

    This Cline fellow, being a Jew, is well-acquainted with the methods Hitler employed and with the difference between Hitler as he was and Hitler as he was perceived. This is true of any victim of the Nazi regime; this particular Jew also happens to be a journalist and atheist, so of course he will exploit the knowledge and experience of his people to advance his personal cause.

    To damn Christianity because of Hitler, to damn it because of war and death and sin, is the most asinine thing I have ever seen. Only the left, only the atheists, only the godless Humanists have ever believed for a moment that war and death and evil could be wiped from the earth. Hitler proves the Church right and the Humanists wrong: the influence on him exerted by popular government, by mass politics, and by racial imperialism, all of which are children of the godless Enlightenment, are undeniable.

    The Church's firm stance that man is evil and will always do evil is likewise constant and undeniable. Only Christianity, only the Church, was proven right by the Wars and by Hitler's regime: only the Church and its evaluation of mankind told the world this was possible, but the humanists, the atheists, the communists-- these prevailed, and their lies convinced the world that somehow God was the source of the human evil that the Church has ever done battle against through its theology and ministry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apollonaris View Post
    What's your definition of extremist? As far as I know, there are no atheist suicide bombers.
    More evil has always been done by those who try to convince the world that violence can be ended than those who admit that violence is part of the human condition. A man who murders the spirit is more dangerous than a man who murders the body, he who destroys society more dangerous than he who destroys property, he who collapses culture more dangerous than he who collapses buildings. Terrorism and the misuse of religion only proves what Christianity, and the Church especially, have always taught: man is corrupt and evil, and his deeds are likewise. If you are going to use the argument about "atheist suicide bombers", I'll answer that there has never been a Roman Catholic suicide bomber or a mainline Methodist suicide bomber either. Terrorism is an act of mistrust of God's Will, not acceptance thereof: it is the belief that the individual will make a greater difference than the Power of the Almighty, and that God needs physical "warriors" to further His ends on Earth. It is different even from the Crusades, which were from start to finish defense of Christians rather than the defense of Christianity. The violence of fundamentalists is a wholly post-Enlightenment phenomenon, the child of a world where man is master of his own destiny. Do not be fooled by jingoism and cliches, atheism creates more destruction than it will ever prevent, for it only encourages our own arrogance.

  10. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by turkey lurkey View Post
    exactly
    So if isn't ' proven ' and you're believing in these theories isn't that dogmatic and oxymoronic?
    'It's time to chew ass' - Dick Kickem

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