Where do atheists come from?

[Mordid]

My mama said they come from Mars

[Apollonaris]

Hitler's religion, if anything, was fascist communism, aka national socialism.

No, you're wrong. Hitler was a Christian, he said so himself.

Anything that spoke both of class warfare and eugenics in the same heartbeat would work. He was a master of soundbytes and impressionist imagery. Religious affiliation was cultural, as it is now. Christianity did not tell Hitler to do what he did, no more than Christianity informed Constantine and Theodosious to be favorable to Christians. It was policy!

Antisemitism is the Christian prejudice par excellence. Hitler's anti-Jewish policies and the Holocaust are inconceivable without Christianity and Christianity informed and shaped his policies as he himself stated.

... Naziism was not prescribed by the Vatican. There are no secret orders hidden in some Vienna vault. On the contrary, the Holy See preferred the Habsburg Restoration than anything since 1918.

All of which is irrelevant to the point that Hitler was a Christian.

Hitler was a dissident in Austria, and no son of Germany. He instilled Austrian dissidence onto Germany, against the Prussian establishment, which Austrians considered inferior, regardless of the religious divide. He did not re-establish Catholicism in Germany, which is what the Habsburgs would have done. Thus, Hitler was preferring to mention non-religious aspects of unity, like race, and the "Indo-Germanisch" heritage of the Swastika.

None of which (and nothing you've said has shown otherwise) alters the fact that Hitler was a Christian.

What Crucifix was that? Where has the Swastika ever been flown in the Vatican City, other than put there by Mussolini's thugs? You are an Italian, no? Fascism runs in your blood, and has nothing to do with religion, because Italians had the fasces in pre-Christian days, very, very importantly at the center of Roman ideals of empire. Blame the dirty Germans if it will make you feel superior to those barbarians. You civilized buffoon.

I'm not Italian, so your whole rant about Mussolini and fascism is misplaced (and a little funny). In any case, I don't think "fascism runs in [Italians'] blood" anymore than I think that Nazism runs in Germans' blood. That's stupid.

You blame religion for far too much, and account humanity's own position far too low. This is a theist position in and of itself you hold, where mankind is not the product of his own abilities and aspirations, but subject to the Fates/Predestination (and even then, do not fulfill their destinies/prophecies).

Erm, ok. I have no idea what you're babbling on about. The whole "fate" and "predestination" thing is completely beside the point, so whatever. And none of what you've said in any way alters the fact that Hitler was a Christian.

You quote Epicurus and suppose to have Apollonarian views, but fail to distinguish humanistic and theistic mindsets on life. You have the latter, as evidenced in your arguments here.

I quote Epicurus because it's a cool quote. You're inferring things that I never wrote or said. I think the problem is that you have too much time on your hands. :icon_wink:

[Magister Eckhart]

No, you're wrong. Hitler was a Christian, he said so himself.

You look at quotes without context and then shout "Christian, Christian!" where there was no true Christian. Lip-service is not belief.

Antisemitism is the Christian prejudice par excellence. Hitler's anti-Jewish policies and the Holocaust are inconceivable without Christianity and Christianity informed and shaped his policies as he himself stated.

This is just plain ignorance of National Socialist attitudes and policies. Hitler himself condemns Christian anti-Semitism extensively even in Mein Kampf, a public source, and further in his private conversations (as I have listed above). His racism was entirely the result of racist pseudo-science originating in the atheist "Enlightenment", not in the Church.

None of which (and nothing you've said has shown otherwise) alters the fact that Hitler was a Christian.

Except for the fact that he wasn't any more Christian than Pol Pot was a Buddhist or Stalin Russian Orthodox.

I quote Epicurus because it's a cool quote.

Which again emphasises how little importance you place on context and therefore how little value anything you think or say has. You have proven with this singular statement that you care little about holding intelligent, informed opinions and would much rather simply gargle journalistic filth and regurgitate it on the rest of us without giving so much as a thought to what you are doing or saying.

This is a situation common to militant atheists, largely because they are little different than fundamentalists of any ideology; they possess neither faith nor intelligence, and have, through some misled quest for equality, been educated. They then latch onto small portions of their education which appeals to them and clumsily hurl these about as gospel writ. No intelligent person can be impressed by this inane babble of an overconfident schoolboy.

[Apollonaris]

The evidence you provided was compiled by an atheist Jew and only quoted public statements Hitler made.

Ah, yes, it's all the Jews' fault.

It's completely misleading and serves only the purpose of damning Christianity. How can you honestly not see the clear polemical intent of that article?

Oh yeah, it's awful when someone properly quotes a source to prove a point. Those crafty Jews!

Let me put this before you: how could Hitler have possibly maintained power in Germany if he had been an open atheist. Consider, especially, that he was doing battled chiefly with godless Communists and secular Jews, two groups known for their hatred of Christianity.

So, you're arguing that we should ignore everything that Hitler said and wrote.

You are altogether giving him too little credit as a genius of propaganda and manipulation of the thick-skulled masses. Only in his private circles did Hitler ever bare his true mind, because he knew he'd never be victorious with the broad masses telling them they were like "little children" or that their God was a "diabolical invention of the Jew". You are, by believing the communist tripe this journalist has hurled against the Church, falling into the same trap the Germans fell into in the 1930s: you choose to believe Hitler the Poster rather than examine Hitler the Man.

You must be telepathic to be able to read Hitler's mind and discover what his true intentions really were.

This Cline fellow, being a Jew, is well-acquainted with the methods Hitler employed and with the difference between Hitler as he was and Hitler as he was perceived. This is true of any victim of the Nazi regime; this particular Jew also happens to be a journalist and atheist, so of course he will exploit the knowledge and experience of his people to advance his personal cause.

Brilliant deductive reasoning. No, don't bother using argument or logic to make your point or anything.

To damn Christianity because of Hitler, to damn it because of war and death and sin, is the most asinine thing I have ever seen. Only the left, only the atheists, only the godless Humanists have ever believed for a moment that war and death and evil could be wiped from the earth. Hitler proves the Church right and the Humanists wrong: the influence on him exerted by popular government, by mass politics, and by racial imperialism, all of which are children of the godless Enlightenment, are undeniable.

The Church's firm stance that man is evil and will always do evil is likewise constant and undeniable. Only Christianity, only the Church, was proven right by the Wars and by Hitler's regime: only the Church and its evaluation of mankind told the world this was possible, but the humanists, the atheists, the communists-- these prevailed, and their lies convinced the world that somehow God was the source of the human evil that the Church has ever done battle against through its theology and ministry.

I hope you realize that you're not preaching to the converted? You might as well be talking about the Land of Oz for all the good it will do you.

More evil has always been done by those who try to convince the world that violence can be ended than those who admit that violence is part of the human condition. A man who murders the spirit is more dangerous than a man who murders the body, he who destroys society more dangerous than he who destroys property, he who collapses culture more dangerous than he who collapses buildings. Terrorism and the misuse of religion only proves what Christianity, and the Church especially, have always taught: man is corrupt and evil, and his deeds are likewise. If you are going to use the argument about "atheist suicide bombers", I'll answer that there has never been a Roman Catholic suicide bomber or a mainline Methodist suicide bomber either. Terrorism is an act of mistrust of God's Will, not acceptance thereof: it is the belief that the individual will make a greater difference than the Power of the Almighty, and that God needs physical "warriors" to further His ends on Earth. It is different even from the Crusades, which were from start to finish defense of Christians rather than the defense of Christianity. The violence of fundamentalists is a wholly post-Enlightenment phenomenon, the child of a world where man is master of his own destiny. Do not be fooled by jingoism and cliches, atheism creates more destruction than it will ever prevent, for it only encourages our own arrogance.

Blah, blah, blah. Keep it in church, god-boy.

[Himera]

I am laughing about the headline ...
From the topic it sounds like they are really some Mars beings, or better-some filthy ( alive)substance which comes from dirty places , to me ,
they are like a breath who disclaims breathing ...

[Edelmann]

Blah, blah, blah. Keep it in church, god-boy.

This is essentially what modern atheism comes down to: anti-intellectual berating of theists. Grow up and at least try to counter the arguments being made.

[Magister Eckhart]

Ah, yes, it's all the Jews' fault.

Oh yeah, it's awful when someone properly quotes a source to prove a point. Those crafty Jews!

That is very effective usage of childish shouting, but it doesn't address your principal problem, namely ignorance of context. You can provide a clip of quotes all put together to argue a certain thing, just the same as you can take a sentence and shorten it to make it seem like it's saying something else, but the fact remains that in both cases you are either purposefully misleading your audience or merely are too stupid to know the difference.

You might accuse me of anti-Semitism by pointing out that Cline is Jewish, but what you are doing in making said accusation is ignoring the contextual relationship between Hitler and Jewish writers, a context I was hoping might educate and inform you. Unfortunately, the benefit of the doubt was wasted on a petulant child in this case.

So, you're arguing that we should ignore everything that Hitler said and wrote.

You are inventing things to discredit your opponent rather than defeat him. How old are you? 15? 17? Why don't you go back to doing homework and let the grown-ups do the debating here.

You must be telepathic to be able to read Hitler's mind and discover what his true intentions really were.

As you will learn as you go through high school and college, it doesn't take a telepath to perceive manipulation and propaganda, only an intelligent and educated person.

Brilliant deductive reasoning. No, don't bother using argument and logic to make your point or anything.

I see you are developing a fine mastery of sarcasm. Typically this is more effective if you develop the necessary intelligence and repertoire of rhetorical methods and logical fallacies before deploying. You'll learn over time, or just become another of the brainless masses that men like Hitler so easily manipulated and continue to manipulate, convinced of your own freedom and intelligence.

Anyway, you've been amusing to tear down, but children are only entertaining for so long. I suggest you go back to MySpace or Facebook or whatever other teenage haven you crawled from and stop negatively affecting the average IQ of these boards.

[Apollonaris]

You look at quotes without context and then shout "Christian, Christian!" where there was no true Christian. Lip-service is not belief.

How nice for you not to have to provide or refute evidence.

This is just plain ignorance of National Socialist attitudes and policies. Hitler himself condemns Christian anti-Semitism extensively even in Mein Kampf, a public source, and further in his private conversations (as I have listed above). His racism was entirely the result of racist pseudo-science originating in the atheist "Enlightenment", not in the Church.

Antisemitism originated with Christianity. Sorry to have to break it to you. Hitler's pseudo-scientific beliefs in no way make him any less of a Christian.

Except for the fact that he wasn't any more Christian than Pol Pot was a Buddhist or Stalin Russian Orthodox.

I won't repeat myself endlessly. If you have evidence of your assertion that Hitler wasn't a Christian, then present it. Otherwise, move on. You've lost the argument. Deal with it.

Which again emphasises how little importance you place on context and therefore how little value anything you think or say has. You have proven with this singular statement that you care little about holding intelligent, informed opinions and would much rather simply gargle journalistic filth and regurgitate it on the rest of us without giving so much as a thought to what you are doing or saying.

Ah, yes, context. The Jews did it. It all has to do with the Jews, doesn't it?

This is a situation common to militant atheists, largely because they are little different than fundamentalists of any ideology; they possess neither faith nor intelligence, and have, through some misled quest for equality, been educated. They then latch onto small portions of their education which appeals to them and clumsily hurl these about as gospel writ. No intelligent person can be impressed by this inane babble of an overconfident schoolboy.

Yes, you've provided us with a great example of an intelligent and educated person. Congratulations.

[Apollonaris]

This is essentially what modern atheism comes down to: anti-intellectual berating of theists. Grow up and at least try to counter the arguments being made.

I would, if there was any rational argument being made. Unless you consider Jew-baiting evidence...

[Magister Eckhart]