Where do atheists come from?

[Neanderthal]

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[Apollonaris]

Whatever, I said I was out of this conversation untill you could provide me with some solid proofs of human evolution, and you personally haven't give me any solid argument whatsoever. As for me, i'm going out now, going out with a cute girl to drink some ale, have fun being an atheistic troll.

Suuure you are. I believe you ... And I'm sure "she's" really cute, too. Just be sure to check for an Adam's apple before you take "her" home with you, ok stud?

[Johnston]

No, you're wrong. Hitler was a Christian, he said so himself.



Antisemitism is the Christian prejudice par excellence. Hitler's anti-Jewish policies and the Holocaust are inconceivable without Christianity and Christianity informed and shaped his policies as he himself stated.



All of which is irrelevant to the point that Hitler was a Christian.



None of which (and nothing you've said has shown otherwise) alters the fact that Hitler was a Christian.



I'm not Italian, so your whole rant about Mussolini and fascism is misplaced (and a little funny). In any case, I don't think "fascism runs in [Italians'] blood" anymore than I think that Nazism runs in Germans' blood. That's stupid.



Erm, ok. I have no idea what you're babbling on about. The whole "fate" and "predestination" thing is completely beside the point, so whatever. And none of what you've said in any way alters the fact that Hitler was a Christian.



I quote Epicurus because it's a cool quote. You're inferring things that I never wrote or said. I think the problem is that you have too much time on your hands. :icon_wink:

Hitler also said he despised Christianity. Which is it? What is real evidence and what is not? I already said he was ambivalent, and dubious. Is that grey area enough? You must think in black and white.

Hitler was not reviving the Spanish Inquisition and Reconquista. Besides, if you believe antisemitism is sourced to Christianity, you would be wrong:

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sho...0&postcount=72

Antisemitism is a Greek cultural byproduct inherited by Christianity because of the Greek formulation of the New Testament, after having translated the Old Testament at Alexandria. The Jewish-Roman wars also could be said to have antisemitic origins. Ever hear of Masada? Antisemitism is not the current favorite prejudice or bias of Christians these days. That you can place in your own atheist hands. How do you feel about Zionism, and Middle East wars of Abrahamic religions?

Hitler was a cultural Christian, as said before. You yourself and we all are cultural Christians to some extent, as pointed out. You even said he was lapsed, so make up your fucking mind. You can't have it both ways! You are probably a lapsed Christian, or raised by lapsed parents. You have more in common with Hitler than we do!

You are obsessed with religious antisemitism, which is, as evidenced by this website and Skadi, Stormfront, etc. quite low on the radar. Most of the antisemites here also hate Christianity and Islam, and they source their distaste to Nietzsche, just as Hitler did.

You obviously like to point fingers without looking in the mirror and meditating on your own views and relationship with these things. You should take some time to reflect. Think before you speak.

[Johnston]

Who are you again?

I am more wondering how genetics got brought into the discussion.

Apollonaris
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[Johnston]

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[Apollonaris]

Hitler also said he despised Christianity. Which is it? What is real evidence and what is not? I already said he was ambivalent, and dubious. Is that grey area enough? You must think in black and white. Hitler was not reviving the Spanish Inquisition and Reconquista.

No, you're wrong. Hitler both despised and admired the Catholic Church. He was probably a lapsed Catholic, but remained a Christian. Do you not understand the difference?

Evidence is what is used to prove the truth of an assertion. I have presented evidence to back up my arguments. What evidence do you have that Hitler did not believe in the Christian god?

Besides, if you believe antisemitism is sourced to Christianity, you would be wrong ...

Apologetics is not history. Christians have a tendency not to accept responsibility for anything they do or say. For example, whenever a Christian does something that embarrasses or inconveniences other Christians, they invariably declare that person was "not really a Christian". Or they shift the blame elsewhere to other groups (e.g. antisemitism). Nothing new here.

Hitler was a cultural Christian, as said before. You yourself and we all are cultural Christians to some extent, as pointed out. You even said he was lapsed, so make up your fucking mind. You can't have it both ways! You are probably a lapsed Christian, or raised by lapsed parents. You have more in common with Hitler than we do!

Hitler was a lapsed Catholic and a Christian. There is no contradiction there. A lapsed Catholic is not an atheist; a lapsed Catholic remains a theist. There is no such thing as an atheistic theist. Only when one no longer believes in god(s) does one cease to be a theist and becomes an atheist. Your objections are confused and incoherent.

If someone who believes in god has more in common with someone who doesn't believe in god, then there's no point in using two different words to describe them, is there? They would both be Christians or both be atheists. You are transparently trying (unsuccessfully) to create confusion over the meaning of words because you have no evidence to refute anything I've said.

To repeat: Hitler was probably a lapsed Catholic, but he was still a Christian, who believed in the Christian god and who believed he was carrying out the will of that god.

You are obsessed with religious antisemitism, which is, as evidenced by this website and Skadi, Stormfront, etc. quite low on the radar. Most of the antisemites here also hate Christianity and Islam, and they source their distaste to Nietzsche, just as Hitler did. You obviously like to point fingers without looking in the mirror and meditating on your own views and relationship with these things. You should take some time to reflect. Think before you speak.

Using your own logic (which I do not endorse btw), if we're all "cultural Christians" then Nietzsche was also a "cultural Christian". If someone who claims to hate Christianity traces their antichristianism to Nietzsche then they are in reality "self-hating" "cultural Christians" (which has nothing to do with atheism). Arguing that Hitler's antisemitism had nothing to do with Christianity because he got his antisemitism from Nietzsche is meaningless, since Nietzsche (and Hitler btw) was a "cultural Christian" (and a Christian by any other name is still a Christian ) and Nietzsche's antisemitism still originated from Christianity (which has nothing to do with atheism).

That some anti-Semites may also hate Christianity and Islam is completely beside the point. Antisemitism has nothing to do with atheism, which asserts merely that there is no evidence for the existence of any god(s). That some atheists may also incidentally happen to be antisemites has nothing to do with atheism because it does not logically follow from atheist principles.

Do you see how stupid your arguments are? You need to stop and think before you speak.

Nothing you've said has refuted any of the evidence I've posted. Try again, and this time use evidence.

[GeistFaust]

Atheism simply asserts that there is no evidence for the existence of the supernatural. Far from being an "extremist" position, as you so casually assert, it is an eminently reasonable position.

I always thought that Atheism was the denial of there being any divine creator that made all things that is why I am not an Atheist. I am more of an agnostic theist with some sympathy for religious ideals. An Agnostic theist aknowledges that it is most probable that a divine being exists but that its relation to this world and our connection to it is not capable of being determined thematically. Than again I have a distaste usually for semitically inspired religion because they tend to lack a purely European mindset. Basically the European has fooled himself that in the more Eastern inspired religions that there is anything authentically European contained within them.

[Apollonaris]

I always thought that Atheism was the denial of their being any divine creator that made all things that is why I am not an Atheist. I am more of an agnostic theist with some sympathy for religious ideals. An Agnostic theist aknowledges that it is most probable that a divine being exists but that its relation to this world and our connection to it is not capable of being determined thematically.

An agnostic takes the position that there is no evidence for the existence or non-existence of god(s) and is therefore unknowable. In other words, an agnostic neither believes nor disbelieves in the existence of god(s). In my opinion, this is equivalent to the negative atheist position. But if someone wants to label themselves as an agnostic rather than an atheist, that is their right.

[GeistFaust]

An agnostic takes the position that there is no evidence for the existence or non-existence of god(s) and is therefore unknowable. In other words, an agnostic neither believes nor disbelieves in the existence of god(s). In my opinion, this is equivalent to the negative atheist position. But if someone wants to label themselves as an agnostic rather than an atheist, that is their right.

I am a strong agnostic if anything I don't determine my position based simply on the fact that God is unknowable. I can only know God to a certain extent through empirical sources and phenomena but this is the only mode through which I can come to understand God. I also said I have some sympathies with religious material if I find it compatible to my likes. I tend to only see the negative side of religion which includes the fallacious dogmas, hypocrites, and moral inconsistency which tends to run amuck in most religions. There are good and beautiful things though about religion and in a sense religion is supposed to reflect the transcendental position of the divine so in and of itself religion is generally good although in a flawed kind of way. The use and application of religion is of the utmost importance though when it comes to attempting to thematically deduct the existence of a God.

[Apollonaris]

I am a strong agnostic if anything I don't determine my position based simply on the fact that God is unknowable. I can only know God to a certain extent through empirical sources and phenomena but this is the only mode through which I can come to understand God. I also said I have some sympathies with religious material if I find it compatible to my likes.

That sounds more like the modern deist position than the agnostic position.

I tend to only see the negative side of religion which includes the fallacious dogmas, hypocrites, and moral inconsistency which tends to run amuck in most religions. There are good and beautiful things though about religion and in a sense religion is supposed to reflect the transcendental position of the divine so in and of itself religion is generally good although in a flawed kind of way. The use and application of religion is of the utmost importance though when it comes to attempting to thematically deduct the existence of a God.

The good thing about religion, IMO, is the sense of continuity of tradition, ritual, and community that it fosters. The unfortunate aspects of religion, IMO, are the fanaticism, dogmaticism, and anti-intellectualism it seems to foster in certain quarters and among certain people. In this day and age, the more unfortunate aspects of religion seem to be gaining the upper hand, even though more people today are probably not religious than at any other time in history. Although this could change radically. We are passing through a very turbulent time in history.