Where do atheists come from?

[Apollonaris]

It is a religion, it comes from the Greek ἄθεος (atheos), wich means without God.

Ridiculous. Atheism is nothing more then the disbelief in the supernatural. Religion is belief in the supernatural and all that this belief implies. They are not the same thing.

Being Atheist is just denying beliefs, not asking for evidence of such.

Atheism is not as monolithic as you are implying. Some atheists (positive atheists) assert that god does not exist (i.e. they deny that any such entity as "god" exists). Other atheists (negative atheists) assert only that there is no evidence for the existence of god (i.e. the more conventionally termed "agnostic" position). Most atheists are negative atheists. Regardless of the various strands of atheism, it is still up to the theist to provide evidence for their belief in the supernatural.

[Neanderthal]

Ridiculous. Atheism is nothing more then the disbelief in the supernatural. Religion is belief in the supernatural and all that this belief implies. They are not the same thing.

Yes they are the same thing, because denying something without proofs of their non-existence equals dogma, wich equals religion.

Atheism is not as monolithic as you are implying. Some atheists (positive atheists) assert that god does not exist (i.e. they deny that any such entity as "god" exists). Other atheists (negative atheists) assert only that there is no evidence for the existence of god (i.e. the more conventionally termed "agnostic" position). Most atheists are negative atheists. Regardless of the various strands of atheism, it is still up to the theist to provide evidence for their belief in the supernatural.

Agnostic doesn't equal Atheist.

In the popular sense, an agnostic is someone who neither believes nor disbelieves there is a God, whereas an atheist disbelieves there is a God.

I fail to see the connection between an Atheist and an Agnostic, and most important, if you do some reading about Atheism, you'll see that is not about skepticism but negationism. An Agnostic is an skeptic person (wich is skeptic on the existance of divinity), on the other hand an Atheist is a negationist (wich denies deities and the supernatural.) (Sorry for my poor English by the way.)

[Frederick]

As far as I know, Nazism (by which I mean the NSDAP) got its start in Bavaria. Hitler may have picked up some of his peculiar ideas from his time living in Austria, but the Nazi Party got its start in southern Germany.

In Mein Kampf Hitler declared that in fighting the Jews he was doing the Lord's will. But it's probably accurate to say that Hitler was a lapsed Catholic. Be that as it may, fascism in the 1920s and 30s is largely a phenomenon of the Catholic countries, e.g. fascism in Italy and Spain. Antisemitism has its origin in the Christian religion as well.

That doesnt change the fact that in Germany mainly atheists had been Nazis.

No matter where the NSDAP was found (even if in Vatican city). And it was not found by Hitler. And Hitler did not invent Nazism either.

The people who invented Nazism had been Nordicist, wanna be Athropolocican, wanna be Norse pagans with a fetish for Germanic people and vikings. In other words: the same type of people that comes to this forum here. And that was in the late 19th century already.

In the early 19th century they started the "Thule Society"


A bunch of freaks, dreaming of beeing vikings and praying to Wodan and Thor. Who hated jews and claimed, the Jews invented Christianity to turn all Europeans from warlike warriors into whimping sniffeling pacifists and make them weak.

The founder of the DAP (German workers party) was a member of the Thule Society.

And he invited Hitler to his party, as the guy for speeches, as he thought he has some talent for speeches.
Later this party changed its name to NSDAP and Hitler was the boss.

Hitler never turned to the faith of the Thule freaks through, but the core of the party remained Norse gods worshipping wannabe vikings.

Hitler however told them to do it in secret as much as possible, because the majority of the people in Germany are christian and could be grossed out by these pagan rites.

But Himmler, leader of the SS, had a total hate for everything that was christian. He planned to burn down all churches and to destroy the catholic church one day.

And he said about Christians and SS that he doesnt want anyone in the SS who believes in the Christian god. Because the christian faith is incompatible to the idiology of Nationalsocialism and there might be the day, when an SS man stands between his Christian moral codex and his orders and that nobody shall allowed to join the SS who is not able to piss on a cross.

The ideal SS man should not have any other religion than the nationalsocialistic ideology.

Hitler talking about "will of the lord" and all that....
That doesnt count. HItler talked a lot of things he doesnt believe in at all.

A secretair of the top Nazis once said in an interview that the top nazis had some jokes. And one joke was, that they want to introduce a new measurement after the victory: The "Goebbels".

A "Geobbels" should be the measurement of how much total nonsense someone can make people believe in.

Wich proves that the top Nazis didnt believe in anything of the Nazi ideology beeing truth and laughed their asses off, that someone is dumb enough to believe in it.

So, if Hitler uses the name of the Lord for his cause, he just does so from something like a tradition. Vikings on raid, Romans on conquest or Christians on crussade, all claim, that a god allowed them to do the things they do and while this may even be conform with nordic religion (wich IS warlike), its totaly against Christianity (wich is pacifistic, but still people made war in the name of the Christian god)

[Frederick]

Besides that of course:
Atheist seem to have existed since the ancient times.

One favorite topic of the psalms that are connected to king David, in the bible is, that in them, people make fun of David having faith in a god and that they think it silly to have faith. Even his own wife tells him that he is a morron. While him claiming that they will stop laughing once he crushes his enemies, with the power of god in his back.

So, the Atheists had been a plague of the faithfull since 3000 years minimum

[Apollonaris]

Yes they are the same thing, because denying something without proofs of their non-existence equals dogma, wich equals religion.

No, they're not. The burden of evidence is on the one making the positive claim, i.e. the theist. Until such evidence is provided, there is no good reason to believe any assertions made by any theist. Most atheists do not assert that god exists or doesn't exist, for the simple reason that there is no evidence either way. This is why most atheists are negative atheists rather than positive atheists.

Agnostic doesn't equal Atheist.

Most agnostics hold the negative atheist position. As far as I'm concerned, this is a question of semantics.

I fail to see the connection between an Atheist and an Agnostic, and most important, if you do some reading about Atheism, you'll see that is not about skepticism but negationism. An Agnostic is an skeptic person (wich is skeptic on the existance of divinity), on the other hand an Atheist is a negationist (wich denies deities and the supernatural.) (Sorry for my poor English by the way.)

Atheism is not monolithic. Some atheists are indeed "negationists" (to use your terminology), but most are not. As for the agnostic versus (negative) atheist issue, there is much overlap between them. I really don't see much of a difference between the two positions.

[Apollonaris]

That doesnt change the fact that in Germany mainly atheists had been Nazis.

I would like to see your evidence for this assertion.

No matter where the NSDAP was found (even if in Vatican city). And it was not found by Hitler. And Hitler did not invent Nazism either.

Most historians would disagree with you.

The people who invented Nazism had been Nordicist, wanna be Athropolocican, wanna be Norse pagans with a fetish for Germanic people and vikings. In other words: the same type of people that comes to this forum here. And that was in the late 19th century already.

Nazi neo-paganism is a form of theism. I don't see how this helps your case that most Nazis were atheists.

[Frederick]

Believe whatever you want to believe.

Your little hatefull atheist religion even.

And dont come me with "Atheism" not beeing a religion.
For someone who feels the need to post in an "Atheist" subforum, Atheism BECAME already a religion.

And that you made it into this forum here, tells another story about evil demons. Demons that still have some effect on me. (Thats why found this place either )

[Hevneren]

First of all, Atheism is the absence of belief, and as such cannot be a religion. I know that Theists are trying to redefine the word, but it doesn't change anything. Atheism cannot be a religion, just as "bald" cannot be a hair colour. And indeed, most Atheists are also Agnostic.

[YOUTUBE]sGT25Oj-6rc[/YOUTUBE]

Second of all, Nazism is dogmatic by nature, meaning it's an ideology with strict guidelines, much like religion. To link a dogmatic ideology to a lack of a belief in a god or gods, is not only nonsensical, but it proves a lack of understanding when it comes to the fundamental meaning of words. Indeed, you can't directly link religion with Nazism, just as you can't directly link a lack of religion with Nazism. These are separate points. Even if Hitler's greatest idol was the Protestant reformer Martin Luther, it doesn't make Christianity complicit in Nazism. However, Martin Luther's anti-Semitism can be linked to Nazism, because anti-Semitism was a central part of the ideology.

[Neanderthal]

First of all, Atheism is the absence of belief, and as such cannot be a religion. I know that Theists are trying to redefine the word, but it doesn't change anything. Atheism cannot be a religion, just as "bald" cannot be a hair colour. And indeed, most Atheists are also Agnostic.

[YOUTUBE]sGT25Oj-6rc[/YOUTUBE]

Second of all, Nazism is dogmatic by nature, meaning it's an ideology with strict guidelines, much like religion. To link a dogmatic ideology to a lack of a belief in a god or gods, is not only nonsensical, but it proves a lack of understanding when it comes to the fundamental meaning of words. Indeed, you can't directly link religion with Nazism, just as you can't directly link a lack of religion with Nazism. These are separate points. Even if Hitler's greatest idol was the Protestant reformer Martin Luther, it doesn't make Christianity complicit in Nazism. However, Martin Luther's anti-Semitism can be linked to Nazism, because anti-Semitism was a central part of the ideology.

Were talking about dogmas here, and disbelief as much as it hurts is a dogma.

Dogma is the established belief or doctrine held by a religion, or by extension by some other group or organization. It is authoritative and not to be disputed, doubted, or diverged from, by the practitioners or believers. The term derives from Greek δόγμα "that which seems to one, opinion or belief"

Were not talking about pragmatism, by being an Atheist you are pretty much agreeing with the idea of the non-existence of God, therefore, you're being dogmatic wich makes you a beliver of something that cannot be proved or unproven, pretty much of what the follower ANY religion does. So that's why I categorize Atheism as a religion.

[Hevneren]

Were talking about dogmas here, and disbelief as much as it hurts is a dogma.

A lack of belief in something cannot be dogmatic. Did you you even watch the clip? Do you believe in faeries, and if not does your lack of a belief in faeries make you dogmatic? Indeed, would your lack of a belief in faeries be a religion?

In order to have a religion, you need a positive religious belief, which Atheism does not. Religion is defined by positive beliefs in something spiritual or supernatural, and Atheism simply is the abscence of such a belief. How can the abscence of belief be a belief?

Were not talking about pragmatism, by being an Atheist you are pretty much agreeing with the idea of the non-existence of God, therefore, you're being dogmatic wich makes you a beliver of something that cannot be proved or unproven, pretty much of what the follower ANY religion does. So that's why I categorize Atheism as a religion.

Again, to not believe in something isn't a belief. Atheism means the lack of a belief in a deity or deities. It's Theists that have forced Atheists to state their lack of belief, in order to differentiate themselves. Without religion, there wouldn't be a need for the word "Atheism", because it's a response to religion and religious dogma.

Shifting the definitions of words doesn't make you right, and you can argue that disbelief is a belief all you want, but it doesn't change the facts. Semantic hijinks are just that, and not based on any reality.