Guide to Hungarian phenotypes (by regions)

[Stears]

Nobody asked Coon, since Coon's "Hungarian" sample was partially ethnic German and even this is extremly outdated. We have a correct anthropological survey from the second half of the 20th century. The locations of this survey: The size was over thirty thousands peoples. The great Hungarian anthropologist: dr. Henkey Gyula academician and his collegues surveyed the ethnic Hungarian and non Hungarian populations. This more than thirty thousands people were the ethnic Hungarians without the new assimilants (non Hungarian origin surname, etc.). So this is an absolute representative survey, basically the facts about the Hungarians from the late 20th century (men/women): height (1): 170/157,87 length of the head (1): 188,22/179,32 breadth of the head (3): 160,32/154,05 breadth of the forehead (4): 113,35/109,93 zygomatic width (6): 146,3/139,32 morphological facial height (18): 121,23/111,39 bigonial breadth (8): 112,97/105,89 nasal height (21): 53,69/49,78 nasal breadth (13): 36/32,78 cephalic index (3:1): 85,22/85,95 facial index (18:6): 82,93/80,01 nasal index (13:21): 67,28/80,01 Eye color (Martin–Schultz): dark (9-16): 43,5%/49,8% mixed (4b-8): 30,9%/30,7% light (1a-4a): 25,5%/19,5% Hair color (Fischer–Saller): brown-black (P-Y): 97,7%/96,9% transitional: (M-O): 1,2%/1,8% blond: (A-L): 0,8%/1% red: (I-IV): 0,3%/0,3% Turanid: 31,4% Pamirid: 12% Dinarid: 5,8% Near Eastern: 5,3% Eastbaltid: 4,5% Eastern Med.: 4,1% Alpine: 2,5% Lapponoid: 1,7% Mongoloid: 0,9% Gracil Mediterranid: 0,8% Nordic: 0,4% Cromagnonid: 0,4% Atlanto-Mediterranid: 0,1% Uralid: 0,1% unidentifiable: 30% (extraordinarily mixed) so basically: ~4% whites ~28% swarthies ~68% swarthy not clear Caucasoid The available parts of the publications: henkeydata.rar (mostly pdf files) 121,5MB

There are no Turanids in Hungary. Turanism started with a fake linguistic fantasy, (according to 19th century turanist, everybody is automatically "turanian" who does not speak IE or Semitic languages in the Eurasian super-continent) which transformed into a turanid race belief. That belief tried to connect people which have no genetic or linguistic relations (see Y mt.DNA Haplogroup markers and autosomal DNA researches)

[Aldaris]

Nobody asked Coon, since Coon's "Hungarian" sample was partially ethnic German and even this is extremly outdated. We have a correct anthropological survey from the second half of the 20th century. The locations of this survey:



The size was over thirty thousands peoples. The great Hungarian anthropologist: dr. Henkey Gyula academician and his collegues surveyed the ethnic Hungarian and non Hungarian populations. This more than thirty thousands people were the ethnic Hungarians without the new assimilants (non Hungarian origin surname, etc.). So this is an absolute representative survey, basically the facts about the Hungarians from the late 20th century (men/women):

height (1): 170/157,87
length of the head (1): 188,22/179,32
breadth of the head (3): 160,32/154,05
breadth of the forehead (4): 113,35/109,93
zygomatic width (6): 146,3/139,32
morphological facial height (18): 121,23/111,39
bigonial breadth (8): 112,97/105,89
nasal height (21): 53,69/49,78
nasal breadth (13): 36/32,78
cephalic index (3:1): 85,22/85,95
facial index (18:6): 82,93/80,01
nasal index (13:21): 67,28/80,01

Eye color (Martin–Schultz):
dark (9-16): 43,5%/49,8%
mixed (4b-8): 30,9%/30,7%
light (1a-4a): 25,5%/19,5%

Hair color (Fischer–Saller):
brown-black (P-Y): 97,7%/96,9%
transitional: (M-O): 1,2%/1,8%
blond: (A-L): 0,8%/1%
red: (I-IV): 0,3%/0,3%

Turanid: 31,4%
Pamirid: 12%
Dinarid: 5,8%
Near Eastern: 5,3%
Eastbaltid: 4,5%
Eastern Med.: 4,1%
Alpine: 2,5%
Lapponoid: 1,7%
Mongoloid: 0,9%
Gracil Mediterranid: 0,8%
Nordic: 0,4%
Cromagnonid: 0,4%
Atlanto-Mediterranid: 0,1%
Uralid: 0,1%
unidentifiable: 30% (extraordinarily mixed)

so basically:
~4% whites
~28% swarthies
~68% swarthy not clear Caucasoid

The available parts of the publications: henkeydata.rar (mostly pdf files) 121,5MB

Stears is actually right for once. The concept of turanids and pamirids in Hungary is contradictory with modern genetics.

[Stears]

Stears is actually right for once. The concept of turanids and pamirids in Hungary is contradictory with modern genetics.

Y and mt.DNA and even autosomal DNA researches denied any relations with that people. Hungarian language is finno-ugric, which have not relations to turkic or other central asian languages.

[Aldaris]

Y and mt.DNA and even autosomal DNA researches denied any relations with that people. Hungarian language is finno-ugric, which have not relations to turkic or other central asian languages.

My original point.

[blogen]

Stears is actually right for once.

This is the proper solution if you have brain:

The concept of turanids and pamirids in Hungary is contradictory with modern genetics.

There is no proper aDNA sample from Hungary. And all of the YDNA and mtDNA sample is only few thousands, so there is not a comparable sample with this survey. But and this is important: the existing samples are not contradictory with this. The ~68% Europo-Mongoloids have a very minimal East Asian aDNA presumably, but basically this population will be a typical Eastern (and not Central!) European population with significant southwest Asian and southeast European admixture. Again: presumably!

[Stears]

The main problem of the Hungarian turanist anthropologyst were, most of them came from the little cumania region, so they wanted to see Hungarians as turks like their cuman nation. Cumans were exterminated by Ottomans (and their crimean tatar allies) However, modern cumans in alföld are mix of romanians and serbians (as the Hungarian text mentioned above). Of course, they are a strange mix, and they often looks weird and darker than Hungarians. The turanic tales looked optimal for this people to explain , why are they so strange. It is not wonder, that Bugac (Kunság Cumania) is the place where Kurultáj events were organized in Hungary.

[Stears]

This is the proper solution if you have brain: There is no proper aDNA sample from Hungary. And all of the YDNA and mtDNA sample is only few thousands, so there is not a comparable sample with this survey. But and this is important: the existing samples are not contradictory with this. The ~68% Europo-Mongoloids have a very minimal East Asian aDNA presumably, but basically this population will be a typical Eastern (and not Central!) European population with significant southwest Asian and southeast European admixture. Again: presumably!

That few thousands samples are enough for 98% certainty. Forexample: vast majority of the population of Britain was genetically tested, and the researchers get 99,9% certainty. It had a very high price. Mathematically More than 20 thousand samples gives 97% certainty for the entirelly aboriginal population of the United Kingdom.

[Stears]

It had a chance, that some of blogen's ancestor (great-great-grandfather) wanted to fight against Hungarians in 1918 to establish the independent cuman republic. However neo (fake) cumans did not get guns, and they abandoned with their rebellion. Some generations later, their descendants like blogen , try to believe that he is a real Hungarian....

[Aldaris]

There is no proper aDNA sample from Hungary. And all of the YDNA and mtDNA sample is only few thousands, so there is not a comparable sample with this survey. But and this is important: the existing samples are not contradictory with this. The ~68% Europo-Mongoloids have a very minimal East Asian aDNA presumably, but basically this population will be a typical Eastern (and not Central!) European population with significant southwest Asian and southeast European admixture. Again: presumably!

If Hungarians aren't central european alpines, but some mysterious turanids, which are basically nowhere to find anywhere else in Europe, the probability of all these results would be close to zero, thats utterly obvious.






Hungarians are clustering with other central Europeans, not central Asians, or anything like that. Europo-mongoloids cluster with neither Europeans, nor east Asians, they are clustering perfectly in between, depending on their euro/asian percentages, thats how the autosomal DNA works. For example, Uyghurs, which are central Asians, are clustering almost halfway between east Asians and Europeans (slightly closer to east Asians). Check this map, it clearly shows, how low is FST in Europe and how central Asians are relatively far from European cluster. Do not forget to note the position of Hungarians.

distantzak.gif

[Stears]

If Hungarians aren't central european alpines, but some mysterious turanids, which are basically nowhere to find anywhere else in Europe, the probability of all these results would be close to zero, thats utterly obvious. Hungarians are clustering with other central Europeans, not central Asians, or anything like that. Europo-mongoloids cluster with neither Europeans, nor east Asians, they are clustering perfectly in between, depending on their euro/asian percentages, thats how the autosomal DNA works. For example, Uyghurs, which are central Asians, are clustering almost halfway between east Asians and Europeans (slightly closer to east Asians). Check this map, it clearly shows, how low is FST in Europe and how central Asians are relatively far from European cluster. Do not forget to note the position of Hungarians. distantzak.gif

Rationality, genetics and linguistics (and academic historians) are not evidences for a believer, who WANT TO BELIEVE in something. Turanism is a religion-allowance for turanists.