Will the South Tirol become the fifth independent German speaking country

[Geni]

Germans? You mean the German tourists in South Tryrol? South Tyroleans aren't German.

And BTW it's not true that all South Tryroleans hate Italians and viceversa. I know South Tyroleans that have moved to study in Italian universities in cities like Padova or Bologna and they really don't care about indipendetism.

Ulla i was living in Meran in contact every day with ordinary peoples ....and yes they are germans because when i say "hallo wie geht's "the reponse "is" alles clar ,bei dir "?If they are not germans , why i spoke with them in german and they understand 100% what i say and they spoke all in german language ?:

[Sizzo]

Ulla i was living in Meran in contact every day with ordinary peoples ....and yes they are germans because when i say "hallo wie geht's "the reponse "is" alles clar ,bei dir "?If they are not germans , why i spoke with them in german and they understand 100% what i say and they spoke all in german language ?:

South Tyroleans are not full-blooded Germans, they are Germanized Rhaetians and they live in an Italian territory. Racially speaking the entire Alps are not so much Germanic. And the Alps are a natural border, why mess with them? The Italian (geographical) borders go from Varo river (Nizza) to Monte Nevoso (historical Venezia Giulia), and from the Vetta d'Italia to Lampedusa (with Corsica and Malta as well).

[Geni]

Bergamaster, they say that they are germans, Who I am to say ,no , you are not ?

[TheGoldenSon]

Blood, culture and ethnicity before religion. Plus, I'm not Catholic anymore. I care first and foremost about my own people. Germans in general and Bavarians, Austrians and South Tyroleans in particular. And there was done grave injustice upon South Tyrol.

World is filled with injustice built upon even greater injustices, it is the historical prism and context of them which justify them. From Italian perspective Tyrol was the staging ground from which Austrians fueled the never ending maelstrom of brotherkilling wars in Italy for Austrian interests. Such was the injustice the Austrians to the Italians that entire generations disappeared from the pages of history, because Austrian leadership supported a greedy count while sparking and fueling the ambitions until he won several victories which would devastate the surrounding areas, and which would postpone the unification of Italy for decades. Divide et impera, skills of manipulation of your policy makers could only be rivaled by the American ones in Middle East.

Now do you understand why it is vested Italian interest to push the Austrians beyond the Alps and contain them there, for they very well know what happened the last time when they allowed Austrian interests to go rampant.

Uhm sorry, this is completely off-topic. Do you try to justify injustice with another injustice!?

In a perfect world, no. But I've lost too much for me to spend my time fantasizing about perfect worlds and what could have happened.

And stop claiming that Germans loved to kill all kind of Slavs.

I doubt that anyone but the most deprived individuals would take joy in it, but the geopolitical ambitions of your people haven't changed since the 19th century. And those ambitions have been disastrous for every single nation in Europe east of Rhine.

There was no agenda to wipe out all Slavs.

There was, I even posted links to it and as I said it was so efficient that Poles needed 50 years to recuperate their numbers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drang_nach_Osten

Actually, Nazi Germany had good relations with Croatians, Slovenias, Bulgarians and Slovaks.

They were pawns to be discarded the first chance the Germans secured the European plains, just as your people have done it for millenia.

It was Nazi Germany who gave the Slovaks a (more or less) own nation. Same with Croatia under Ante Pavelic.

Nazis used quislings which in turn had perverted some of the genuine political questions into something which could only benefit Germany.

The real enemy was Bolshevism and the rough communist-leaning partisans ins parts of Slavic lands like Serbia or Bosnia.

And how did you think Bolshevism took roots in some of the most religious countries in Europe? Maybe it had something to do because they were the only viable choice to liberate themselves form the German oppression after their capital cities were turned to rubble and former co-nationals taken to "work camps"?

I don't see Slavs as enemies and I never did.

Neither do I see you individually as an enemy, far from that little Fraulein. But sadly, actions of bigger players than you or I, speak louder than words.

I'm not a Nazi but a proud, upright German woman. It's my full right to be what I am.

Exactly Anna! What you are, more precisely what you with your ideas present here to the Italians is what is in question. For them to allow Austrian presence in their industrial and economic
heartland is a mistake they can allow if they do not wish to repeat the sad story of the Italian wars. To them it represent the same effect as Turkish political enclaves in front of Vienna would mean to you.

We have a great saying: 'Wo Unrecht zu Recht wird, wird Widerstand zur Pflicht'. Translate it! Italy started the institutionalized terrorism upon South Tyroleans. Tortured people have always the right to fight back wherever they are.

The day has finally arrived on which I can with all certainty say the world is upside down. A former crusader-to-be is quoting verses on German from Qur'an. Oh this wonderful crazy world we live in. Have a good night Anna.

[FeederOfRavens]

I doubt that anyone but the most deprived individuals would take joy in it, but the geopolitical ambitions of your people haven't changed since the 19th century. And those ambitions have been disastrous for every single nation in Europe west of Rhine.

Also for the ones north of the Eider

[Sizzo]

Bergamaster, they say that they are germans, Who I am to say ,no , you are not ?

In Italy, there are some Germanic minorities (Germanic because they speak or spoke Germanic dialects). Germanic Diaspora carried Germans even on the Volga river. So what? The entire European continent is German? They should respect the natural borders at least. Else, South Tyroleans angry with Italy could join Bavaria and replace the Turks. Why not? The real problem of Germany are those millions of aliens, not an Italian place.

[Geni]

In Italy, there are some Germanic minorities (Germanic because they speak or spoke Germanic dialects). Germanic Diaspora carried Germans even on the Volga river. So what? The entire European continent is German? They should respect the natural borders at least. Else, South Tyroleans angry with Italy could join Bavaria and replace the Turks. Why not? The real problem of Germany are those milions of aliens, not an Italian place.

Questa é un altra cosa, sto parlando come loro si sentono , non chi ha ragione , ed perche...questa é una cosa vostra non tocca a me di pensare che succedera con i tedeschi del Tirolo del Sud..

[Peyrol]

You didn't win, it was a stale mate in the middle of the mountains. South Tyrol was given to Italy on the green table, not by victory on the battlefield. The front at the end of the war was way southern of Sterzing or Meran and far away from the Brenner where the current border is located.

That's a raw lie; the map you posted show ther front after the strafexpedition and Caporetto in 1917, not during and after Vittorio Veneto.

After V.V., so at the end of the war, the occupied territoried reached to all the alpine arch, plus Trieste and many istrian and dalmatian coast.

Maybe you should read the text of the Villa Giusti Armistice.

[Sizzo]

Questa é un altra cosa, sto parlando come loro si sentono , non chi ha ragione , ed perche...questa é una cosa vostra non tocca a me di pensare che succedera con i tedeschi del Tirolo del Sud..

Io dico questo: il Brennero è confine naturale da millenni, Druso pose lì l'aquila delle legioni a confine imperituro. I veri tedeschi giunti nel Medioevo erano una minoranza che col tempo ha linguisticamente e culturalmente germanizzato il territorio. Altresì, con la Grande Guerra, spargendo il sangue di centinaia di migliaia di Italiani quel territorio è stato riconquistato. E lo devo dare alla Germania per soddisfare 4 bifolchi che sputano sul tricolore ma incassano i soldini romani col loro statuto da parassiti? Andiamo, se non gli sta bene l'Italia che se ne tornino in Baviera. Vengono da là e come loro ci sono altre minoranze in Italia (ma coi secoli annacquate).

[Peyrol]

In Italy, there are some Germanic minorities (Germanic because they speak or spoke Germanic dialects). Germanic Diaspora carried Germans even on the Volga river. So what? The entire European continent is German? They should respect the natural borders at least. Else, South Tyroleans angry with Italy could join Bavaria and replace the Turks. Why not? The real problem of Germany are those millions of aliens, not an Italian place.

You was a fervent lombard supremacist and separatist and now you turned into an italian nationalist?
What's happened?