Norman-Arab-Byzantine culture

[Sikeliot]

I don't care about genetic results, because i don't believe in a strictly correlation between haplogroups and phenotypes.

Genetic results show who was where.

Anyway, the facts are what they are. Southern Italy and Sicily is one genetic unit, along with Maltese, and they are the southernmost plotting southern Europeans, with less Northern influence than Greece.

[Ianus]

Genetic results show who was where.

Anyway, the facts are what they are. Southern Italy and Sicily is one genetic unit, along with Maltese, and they are the southernmost plotting southern Europeans, with less Northern influence than Greece.

Genetic results show that an ancestor of you carry this genotype, but don't say when he come.

[Sikeliot]

Genetic results show that an ancestor of you carry this genotype, but don't say when he come.

I mean autosomal. Are you really that afraid to look at the thread??

[Sikeliot]

Most of admixture events are dated between neolithic and 500 AD. The majority of the J2a though is dated during the bronze age collapse so it's phoenician mostly, not neolithic.

So that means western Sicily at least does have Phoenician ancestry. I always thought that the people we considered "native" Sicilians at the time of the Arab conquest would have been a mixture of a lot of things, one of them Phoenician.

[Ianus]

I mean autosomal. Are you really that afraid to look at the thread??

Show me this thread, however Genotype and phenotype are different things.

[Sikeliot]

Show me this thread, however Genotype and phenotype are different things.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sho...ans-and-Greeks!

The components that we'd associate with Phoenicians, Carthaginians, and Arabs are the ones I called "MENA" (Arabian, Near Eastern, and North African). Of the 9 people from western Sicily, 7 of them scored at least 20% combined of these, and the lowest was 7%. Of the 9 eastern Sicilians, 5 of them scored above 20% and the lowest was 14%. For the Greeks, it varies between 4-18%.

Neolithic West Asian would be better matched in what I called "Caucasus", which has high Sicilian outliers but is higher in Greeks.

All of the northern and continental European stuff, ranges from around 5% to 16% in Sicily, and between 6% to 35% for the Greeks.

[Ianus]

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sho...=1#post3052512

Starts from here.

Also notice how Minard dug his own grave

EDIT: IBDs and autosomal data are before that but they are mostly about greece and the balkans.

I know yet that SS component was negligible.

[Sikeliot]

Date is what matters. Point is that the majority of the ancestry in Sicily comes from post neolithic and bronze age collapse but not recent times.

So based on that how much Norman ancestry would you suggest, or medieval Lombard?

I think it's showing what I have believed.. that MOST Sicilian ancestry comes from the native islanders, Greek colonization, and the Phoenicians.

[Sikeliot]

Here is an interesting article someone wrote on Sicily. She is I believe Palermitan, from the context of this. I find it difficult to dislike Norman history, despite my (perhaps undue) dislike of Northern Europeans due to my experiences with them.

What is clear is a large part of Sicilian culture, if not most of it, developed during Norman rule as the cultures all blended together.

http://www.timesofsicily.com/sicilia...ans-europeans/

"The Arabs and Normans ruled Sicily in medieval times, and left a legacy I see all around me in Sicily today. I see Arabs in the girls with big dark eyes and thick black hair, or in the little boys on the beach with nut brown skin. I see Normans too, in the fishermen with piercing blue eyes whose fair hair is bleached by the sun. I hear the Arabs in the Sicilian language and the place names, and I taste their foods in the pistachio ice cream and the citrus fruits. I shop in the markets they founded as souks over 1,000 years ago. I feel the Catholic legacy of the Normans in the passion that fills the religious processions, and the churches that crowd every town.

The Arabs and the Normans created modern Sicilian society, yet also gave Sicilians an identity crisis from which they have never recovered. Are Sicilians African or European? Most of them will tell you they do not know."

Obviously on this forum the answer is "European", and I do consider Sicilians to be European even with North African influences present in tangible ways. Especially since they are Christians who speak an Indo-European language, and North Africa is Muslim.