French look according to you

**aherne** · 10-24-2014, 06:50 AM

Originally Posted by Ctwentysevenj

Some south Tirolese athletes

Latter looks a bit like me in the mirror (but not in photos, where I look quite different from reality). Both are unpassable as Italians but passable as French (not to mention German, which is what they are).

As for Elsass-Lothringen, ethnicity is not a matter of political preference. What people "feel" has no relation to what they ARE. What they ARE is ethnic Germans (that used to have German culture and German dialect as well). What they feel is the result of centuries-old indoctrination that started with French Revolution...

**~~Samanta Fabris~~** · 10-24-2014, 07:39 AM

Cut the crap Bogdan. I've already debunked ya in the other thread. Let's not ruin this thread too.

**Rudel** · 10-24-2014, 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by aherne

Latter looks a bit like me in the mirror (but not in photos, where I look quite different from reality). Both are unpassable as Italians but passable as French (not to mention German, which is what they are).

As for Elsass-Lothringen, ethnicity is not a matter of political preference. What people "feel" has no relation to what they ARE. What they ARE is ethnic Germans (that used to have German culture and German dialect as well). What they feel is the result of centuries-old indoctrination that started with French Revolution...

It's Alsace-Lorraine in English, don't you bloody "Lothringen" us. Furthermore Alsace was already populated before Germanisation coming with the Alamans during the high Middle-Ages. While it's true they belonged as long as Alsace was an individualized entity to the German continuum, there's no fatality about it.

Originally Posted by aherne

What they feel is the result of centuries-old indoctrination that started with French Revolution...

You're wrong, it's the result of centuries-old indoctrination that started with Louis XIV. There are documents issued by Colbert I believe, preceding the Thirty Years war, clearly stating the royal intentions to, beyond annexing Alsace, make it sensitive to all French things including the language, and to eventually make good French people out of them.

**turkojew** · 10-24-2014, 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by TheBrownBear

obelix?

**aherne** · 10-24-2014, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by Rudel

You're wrong, it's the result of centuries-old indoctrination that started with Louis XIV. There are documents issued by Colbert I believe, preceding the Thirty Years war, clearly stating the royal intentions to, beyond annexing Alsace, make it sensitive to all French things including the language, and to eventually make good French people out of them.

Before revolution times, barely anyone knew French (not just in Alsace, but everywhere across France, since most Oil and Oc dialects were unintelligible to standard French). Everyone (except in a number of villages on Vosges) spoke the local German dialect (as elsewhere in German lands) and called their language "Deutsch" in their dialect. This is same all over German lands: even in Low Countries, where a different standard of written German evolved, they called their language Deutsch until 19th century.

**SKYNET** · 10-24-2014, 03:25 PM

**Rudel** · 10-24-2014, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by aherne

Before revolution times, barely anyone knew French (not just in Alsace, but everywhere across France, since most Oil and Oc dialects were unintelligible to standard French)

Oil dialects are French. Having grown up in an environment where their were still a few speakers of both Oïl (Lorrain roman) and Oc (Limousin), I've got a good grasp of the degrees of intelligibility.

Originally Posted by aherne

Everyone (except in a number of villages on Vosges) spoke the local German dialect (as elsewhere in German lands) and called their language "Deutsch" in their dialect.

And ? Alsatian being the baseline vernacular in the area at the time isn't related to the presence of French. The language that the common people talked was completely irrelevant to the state of affairs. It only concerned the Church, really.