What is Europe? And who is European?

[LightHouse89]

I would claim Russia is more of the second Byzantium Empire as oppose to a third Rome.

[LightHouse89]

Congratulations, Russia. You copied the Roman two-headed eagle. So did the Serbs, Albanians, and Germans.

The Prussian Eagle is cooler.

[Immortal Technique]

Russia will conquer italia if they keep sucks american dick

[Hochmeister]

it can be called the Second Rome for other reasons

The Empire was devided into 2 separated countries: Western Roman Empire and Eastern Roman Empire, with Old (First) Rome and New (Second) Rome. They hated each other - first 'cold war' in Europe started back in those days.

3) Religiously, yes, Moscow is Orthodox, but Russian Orthodox as opposed to Greek Orthodox; certainly the difference is small, but the Patriarch of Constantinople is definitely a truer descendant of the old Roman Church (unless we count the Pontifex himself, but let's restrict ourselves to the East). Indeed, there was no displacement of the Church at either sacking of the Roman Capitals.

The Patriarch of Constantinople was head of Russian Church up to 1448, when he gave Russia the status of Autocephaly.

In 1380, Venice became a vassal state of Louis the Great of Hungary until his death. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_I_of_Hungary

Ok. Budapest is the Third Rome.

[Longbowman]

The Empire was devided into 2 separated countries: Western Roman Empire and Eastern Roman Empire, with Old (First) Rome and New (Second) Rome. They hated each other - first 'cold war' in Europe started back in those days.

Hardly. The Empire was split for strange reasons, but not mutual hatred. There was no cold war, and after the West's fall, the East recovered/never lost quite a few Western Mediterranean possessions.

[Illancha]

Europe = West Roman (West European) and East Roman/Byzantine (East European) civilization + Renaissance and humanism.

Chechens, Turks, Middle East lack it. What's more, they are proud to have their own identity. That's why they are proud non-Europeans by default.

I don't know why you lump us in the same category as Turkey and the Middle East, we are worlds apart in terms of culture and history and I have yet to meet a Chechen who self-identifies as a Middle Eastern or Anatolian.

You're right, we do have pride in our own identity as well as a wider Caucasian identity. Our relationship with Europe has been defined by our relationship with Russia for the past few centuries hence the reason why we might be hesitant to identify as contemporary Europeans, although identification as proto-Europeans is quite common.

[Stears]

Asians hates Orthodox and as well other Christian religion.

[Stears]

I don't know why you lump us in the same category as Turkey and the Middle East, we are worlds apart in terms of culture and history and I have yet to meet a Chechen who self-identifies as a Middle Eastern or Anatolian.

You're right, we do have pride in our own identity as well as a wider Caucasian identity. Our relationship with Europe has been defined by our relationship with Russia for the past few centuries hence the reason why we might be hesitant to identify as contemporary Europeans, although identification as proto-Europeans is quite common.

Culturally, both islam and the semi-asian orthodox countries were traditionally west-hater civilizations. Hungary is a Central European country, and part of the Catholic-Protestant western civilization. Hungary is not Eastern European (Orthodox = semi-asian culture) country.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cl...ations_map.png


What is Western Civilization?
The earliest mention of Western civilization “Occidental civilis”
After the Great Schism (The East-West Schism /formally in 1054/, between Western Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Christianity.) Hungary determined itself as the easternmost bastion of Western civilisation (This statement was affirmed later by Pope Pius II who wrote that to Emperor Friedrich III, “Hungary is the shield of Christianity and the protector of Western civilization”)
It is not a secret in history, that countries civilizations are/were not in the same level of development.
It is well-known that Western and Central Europe, ( the so-called Western civilization) was always more developed than Orthodox Slavic or Eastern European civilization.
The cultural the societal-system and the economical civilizational (and technological) differences between Orthodox countries and Western Christian (Catholic-Protestant) countries were similar great, as the differences between Northern America (USA Canada) and Southern- (Latino) America.



MEMENTO:
Western things which were not existed in orthodox world:




1. POLITICAL AND CONSTITUTIONAL development: Medieval appearance of parliaments (a legislative body(!), DO NOT CONFUSE with the “councils of monarchs” which existed since the beginning of human history), the estates of the realm, the clergy, the nobility, and the commoners,




2. SELF GOVERNMENT status of big royal/imperial cities, (local government systems of cities), which are the direct ancestors of modern self/local governmental systems.




3. ECONOMY: The medieval appearance of banking systems and social effects and status of urban bourgeoisie, the absolute dominance of money-economy (when the vast majority of trade based on money and the taxes customs duties were collected in money) from the 12th -13^th century, instead of the former primitive bartel-based commerce (barter dominated the economies orthodox world until the 17-18^th centuries.)






4. HIGHER EDUCATION: The medieval appearance of universities and the medieval appearance of secular intellectuals,






5. CULTURE: Knights, the knight-culture, chivalric code, (and the technological effects of crusades from the Holy Land,)
Music and literature: courtly love, troubadours, Gregorian chant, Ars nova, Organum, Motet, Madrigal, Canon and Ballata, Liturgical drama, Novellas,
medieval western THEATER: Mystery or cycle plays, morality and passion plays, which developed into the renaissance theater, the direct ancestor of modern theaters.
Philosophy: Scholasticism and humanist philosophy,



6. The medieval usage of Latin alphabet and medieval spread of movable type printing,



7. TECHNOLOGY: The guild system is an association of artisans or merchants, which organized the training education, and directed master's exam system for artisians. Due to the compulsory foreign studies of the artisian master's candidates, the guilds played key role in the fast spread of technologies and industrial knowledge in the medieval Western World.



8. The defence systems & fortifications: The spread of stone/brick castle defense -systems, the town-walls of western cities from the 11^th century. (In the orthodox world, only the capital cities had such a walls . The countries of the Balkan region and the territory of Russian states fell under Ottoman/Mongolian rule very rapidly - with a single decesive open-field battle - due to the lack of the networks of stone/brick castles and fortresses in these countries. The only exception was the greek inhabited Byzantine territories which were well fortified.)



9. FINEARTS and ARCHITECTURE: western architecture, sculpture paintings and fine-arts: the Romanesque style, the Gothic style and the Renaissance style.
The orthodox church buildings and „palaces(?)” were very little, they had primitive structure and poor decorations, their style were influenced by non-European arabic and persian influenced Byzantine ornamentics.







The renaissance & humanism , the reformation and the enlightenment did not influenced/affected the Orthodox (Eastern European) countries.
Before 1870, the industrialization that had developed in Western and Central Europe and the United States did not extend in any significant way to the rest of the world. In Eastern Europe, industrialization lagged far behind, and started only in the 20th century.

[Vlach]

Can you stop spamming this thread?

[Stears]

Can you stop spamming this thread?

HAhahaha The cultural inferiority might be painful ...