How much of R1a (what %) could there be in West Germany before WW2 ???

[FeederOfRavens]

The idea of multi-ethnic character is based only on archaeological findings - written texts always describe those settlements as Slavic. But for example among archaeological findings from Wolin there are: Baltic amber, Scandinavian jewellery, East Slavic rattles, Arabic coins, glass beads, Far Eastern silk, Moravian pottery and querns made of granite from the Sudetes. Does it mean that Balts, Arabs, Chinese people, Moravians, East Slavs, Czechs and Scandinavians lived in Wolin in large numbers? Rather not. What you claim is evidence for "multi-ethnic" character is in fact only evidence that it was an important trading centre (no surprise, it is located at the coast of a major sea and nearby there is a major river - Oder).

Scandinavian presence is evident in artefacts, burial rites, and the type of houses. These emporia are recognized as being Slavic-Scandinavian/Multi-Ethnic towns. Just google up some of the info on the Emporia like Reric, Bardy-Świelubie or Altes lager (Wollin less so). They'll mention Scandinavian presence and be sure to call it a Multi-Ethnic/Slavo-Saxon-Scandinavian town.

[Peterski]

I made several charts and maps concerning R1a among Slavic peoples (based on most recent study by Underhill et al.):

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sho...=1#post3255824









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The same data as text:



Russians of Kostroma seem to be the most "average" Slavic group when it comes to proportions of R1a types.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kostroma

But on the other hand, Ukrainians from Donetsk have the most even proportions (roughly 1/3 + 1/3 + 1/3).

A very interesting correlation can be seen (with only a few exceptions):

[WeS] - West Slavs
[EaS] - East Slavs
[SoS] - South Slavs

And this correlation (there are a few exceptions, as you can see below) is as follows:

West Slavs = more of M458
East Slavs = more of Z282
South Slavs = more of M558

Group (Z282 / M458 / M558 / other - as % of total R1a):

[WeS] Czechs----------------------------(10,1 / 79,8 / 10,1 / 0,0)
[WeS] Czechs Utah----------------------(0,0 / 70,0 / 19,9 / 10,1)
[SoS] Croatia mainland-----------------(16,0 / 68,0 / 16,0 / 0,0)
[EaS] Ukrainians Cherkassy-------------(22,4 / 53,1 / 24,5 / 0,0)
[WeS] Poland----------------------------(4,0 / 58,0 / 38,0 / 0,0)
[WeS] Slovakia--------------------------(4,1 / 46,2 / 48,0 / 1,7)
[SoS] Bulgaria---------------------------(10,8 / 42,0 / 40,4 / 6,8)
[WeS] Poles Wroclaw-------------------(17,6 / 43,2 / 39,2 / 0,0)
[EaS] Ukrainians Ivano-Frank.----------(8,1 / 40,0 / 51,9 / 0,0)
[EaS] Belarusians Brest-Lit.------------(15,8 / 38,6 / 45,6 / 0,0)
[EaS] Russians Kostroma---------------(18,9 / 37,4 / 43,7 / 0,0)
[EaS] Ukrainians Donetsk---------------(30,4 / 30,4 / 37,0 / 2,2)
[EaS] Russians Pskov-------------------(37,1 / 25,8 / 35,5 / 1,6)
[EaS] Belarusians-----------------------(38,4 / 23,2 / 38,4 / 0,0)
[EaS] Ukrainians Belgorod--------------(49,9 / 11,6 / 38,5 / 0,0)
[EaS] Ukrainians Khmilnyk--------------(39,4 / 15,7 / 44,9 / 0,0)
[EaS] Russians Belgorod----------------(25,9 / 18,8 / 55,3 / 0,0)
[EaS] Russians Oryol--------------------(25,0 / 23,6 / 51,4 / 0,0)
[SoS] Serbia-----------------------------(17,9 / 23,2 / 47,0 / 11,9)
[SoS] Macedonia------------------------(18,0 / 27,3 / 54,7 / 0,0)
[SoS] Bosnia----------------------------(19,8 / 19,8 / 60,4 / 0,0)
[SoS] Slovenia--------------------------(0,0 / 10,7 / 83,9 / 5,4)
[SoS] Herzegovina----------------------(6,2 / 6,2 / 87,6 / 0,0)

[Austrvegr]

I made several charts and maps concerning R1a among Slavic peoples (based on most recent study by Underhill et al.):

Very nice charts, but they could have been a little bigger so that we could see what they actually say.

[Artek]

They say things that we already know - M458 dominates in West Slavs and Z280 in East Slavs. With one exception - sampled Ukrainians from Cherkassy.

See other populations: 977035_134653640065562_521144046_o.jpg.

Anyway, sampling for Mecklenburg looks weird, since city of Rostock itself had more than 30% of an R1a and Mecklenburg was for very long time slavic-speaking.

[Peterski]

They are big enough but this forum automatically makes them smaller.

Click direct links to see larger versions, for example:

http://s23.postimg.org/p95dqwoor/Chart_R1a.png

[Peterski]

Do you know if there are any other documents online covering the time afterwards? I was thinking about documents in the area around Lodz and around Wloclawek.

Sorry I haven't found anything aboout these areas so far.

But I found a similar online source concerning the surnames of inhabitants of Warmia (Ermland):

"SURNAMES OF INHABITANTS OF THE LIDZBARK DISTRICT (1500-1772)":

http://www.uwm.edu.pl/human/duch/komornictwoang.pdf

This study is about inhabitants of the area of Lidzbark (Lautenburg) in Warmia (Ermland) in period 1500 - 1772.

Table of contents:

[Magnolia]

I made several charts and maps concerning R1a among Slavic peoples (based on most recent study by Underhill et al.):

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sho...=1#post3255824










================================================

The same data as text:



Russians of Kostroma seem to be the most "average" Slavic group when it comes to proportions of R1a types.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kostroma

But on the other hand, Ukrainians from Donetsk have the most even proportions (roughly 1/3 + 1/3 + 1/3).

A very interesting correlation can be seen (with only a few exceptions):

[WeS] - West Slavs
[EaS] - East Slavs
[SoS] - South Slavs

And this correlation (there are a few exceptions, as you can see below) is as follows:

West Slavs = more of M458
East Slavs = more of Z282
South Slavs = more of M558

Group (Z282 / M458 / M558 / other - as % of total R1a):

[WeS] Czechs----------------------------(10,1 / 79,8 / 10,1 / 0,0)
[WeS] Czechs Utah----------------------(0,0 / 70,0 / 19,9 / 10,1)
[SoS] Croatia mainland-----------------(16,0 / 68,0 / 16,0 / 0,0)
[EaS] Ukrainians Cherkassy-------------(22,4 / 53,1 / 24,5 / 0,0)
[WeS] Poland----------------------------(4,0 / 58,0 / 38,0 / 0,0)
[WeS] Slovakia--------------------------(4,1 / 46,2 / 48,0 / 1,7)
[SoS] Bulgaria---------------------------(10,8 / 42,0 / 40,4 / 6,8)
[WeS] Poles Wroclaw-------------------(17,6 / 43,2 / 39,2 / 0,0)
[EaS] Ukrainians Ivano-Frank.----------(8,1 / 40,0 / 51,9 / 0,0)
[EaS] Belarusians Brest-Lit.------------(15,8 / 38,6 / 45,6 / 0,0)
[EaS] Russians Kostroma---------------(18,9 / 37,4 / 43,7 / 0,0)
[EaS] Ukrainians Donetsk---------------(30,4 / 30,4 / 37,0 / 2,2)
[EaS] Russians Pskov-------------------(37,1 / 25,8 / 35,5 / 1,6)
[EaS] Belarusians-----------------------(38,4 / 23,2 / 38,4 / 0,0)
[EaS] Ukrainians Belgorod--------------(49,9 / 11,6 / 38,5 / 0,0)
[EaS] Ukrainians Khmilnyk--------------(39,4 / 15,7 / 44,9 / 0,0)
[EaS] Russians Belgorod----------------(25,9 / 18,8 / 55,3 / 0,0)
[EaS] Russians Oryol--------------------(25,0 / 23,6 / 51,4 / 0,0)
[SoS] Serbia-----------------------------(17,9 / 23,2 / 47,0 / 11,9)
[SoS] Macedonia------------------------(18,0 / 27,3 / 54,7 / 0,0)
[SoS] Bosnia----------------------------(19,8 / 19,8 / 60,4 / 0,0)
[SoS] Slovenia--------------------------(0,0 / 10,7 / 83,9 / 5,4)
[SoS] Herzegovina----------------------(6,2 / 6,2 / 87,6 / 0,0)

How is it calculated? What is 100%?
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/europe...y_region.shtml
R1a (Poland) ... 57,5%
R1a (Serbia) ... 16,0%

100% R1a (Poland) =/= 100% R1a (Serbia).
This is impossible to compare.

[Ülev]

How is it calculated? What is 100%?
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/europe...y_region.shtml
R1a (Poland) ... 57,5%
R1a (Serbia) ... 16,0%

100% R1a (Poland) =/= 100% R1a (Serbia).
This is impossible to compare.

I counted it once from his data compared it to eupedia data and

m458 vs m558
Poland: 30 - 22%
Czechia: 27 - 3,5%
Slovakia: 19 - 20%
Belarus: 19,5 - 19,5%
Slovenia: 4 - 32%
Croatia: 16 - 4%
Bulgaria: 7 - 7%
Ukraine: 12,5 - 17,5%

[Bobby Martnen]

All in all, I am very certain that vast majority of R1a haplogroup in West Germany today, is only the product of recent (19th - 20th centuries) migrations.

When people carry out genetic research they wonder "which ancient tribe could possibly bring this here?", and completely neglect VERY RECENT migrations...

The best way to test this would be to look at Pennsylvania Dutch results, because they're descended mostly from West Germans who immigrated here in the early 18th century

Here are some results

https://www.familytreedna.com/public...frame=yresults

I'm paternally PA Dutch, and I'm I1