Rozafa legend

[Drawing-slim]

He is into something, I must admit. Post 131: http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sho...e-(map)/page14



OP where do you base your opinion that the Rozafa legend is not Gheg and Albanian, since Kurt here wants to know too? You seem to have a grandeur delusion on Tosk superiority, so perhaps you ought to read one, and I must admit, he is as superior as they come. I suggest you Three Arched Bridge by Kadare for starters.

Nothing against tosk albos but at this point any tosk being fascinated with the tosk factor and attempting to express this in the expense of ghegs in anyway, is the saddest lamest oldest fucking most pathetic mindset you can come across.

[Skerdilaid]

Nothing against tosk albos but at this point any tosk being fascinated with the tosk factor and attempting to express this in the expense of ghegs in anyway, is the saddest lamest oldest fucking most pathetic mindset you can come across.

Actually I have never come across a Tosk with his mindset, so I really doubt his "Toskness".

[The Illyrian Warrior]

Actually I have never come across a Tosk with his mindset, so I really doubt his "Toskness".

Don't be surprised if he comes from a "Greek" family or something of that sort cause I never got to know a Tosk Albanian to push for illusional division among Albanians like this fella here.

[blogen]

Yes, this is a common Slavonic legend. For example the legend of the Hungarian castle's building: Déva. The name origin from the Slavonic deva = girl world and of course she was sacrificed at the time of the building of the castle, she was walled up into the wall.

[Abeja]

The short story is that that legend testifies about a culture that was at the core of a civilization. It's not a legend about barbarians. The people that built those castles and the cities near them, were the same people that built appollonia, butrint, athene, and so on. But Greek priests that re-wrote the history, couldn't understand it to include even those cities as "Greek colonies".
The legend is obviously about keeping the word. It has the same theme as the legend of Kostandin & Doruntin. This is the starting point to understand it.
Ask the question: Why was so important for the people of this culture keeping the word? Even if doing so would cost the life of your dear one (Rozafa). Or even if you are dead (as in the case of Kostandin). What do you think? (If you have an idea, go post it at the other thread, here we went far enough off topic).

So I answer here as I said.
This legend is about keeping the word. But isn't keeping the word a very distinctive and prominent part of the life and culture of Ghegs more than Tosks? By accepting that this legend talks about keeping the word, you are admitting that with a lot of probability is of Ghegs that we are talking about, not Tosks.

As for the question, I think that these people knew that there wasn't an afterlife to be punished or blessed for their missed oath, so that it would have been for them of the supreme importance to give everything they had to keep their word and honouring the oath in the "living" world. This is at least how I interpret it. Give me your opinion.
I though keep to not understand how this may link this legend to Tosks and not Ghegs.

The short story is that that legend testifies about a culture that was at the core of a civilization. It's not a legend about barbarians. The people that built those castles and the cities near them, were the same people that built appollonia, butrint, athene, and so on. But Greek priests that re-wrote the history, couldn't understand it to include even those cities as "Greek colonies".

This is a grave statement, that need a thorough analysis. Prove what you claim.

[kuqezi]

More likely you are Albanian speaking Slav and that's why its logic feels foreign.



No, nothing to do with patriarchy. This legend as well as that of Kostandin and Doruntin have both the same theme, going to the extreme to keep the word.
- What would be the most difficult choice for sacrificing someone?
- A young woman that has a newborn son and is extremely dedicated to do his mother, like Rozafa. The legend intentionally tries to make the choice as hard as possible.

- What would be the most difficult (impossible really) condition that obstacles someone to keep the promise?
- His death. In the other legend the earth wouldn't accept Kostandin with his promise still pending.

And as a synthesis of these legends, Albanians have inherited the expression "Shqiptari kur jep fjalen ther djalen".

The next step is answering the question: Why keeping the word was extremely important in the culture of the people that created those legends? That would explain why there is no reward for keeping the word, nor punishment for not doing it.

Not bad for a Tosk deciphering "Gheg culture"

Actually there is severe sanction and punishment in the society for breaking ones word, as Skerdilaid mentioned. The afterlife is indeed meaningless but all dishonors have to be cleansed in this world, in blood. And if you die you just pass this on this debt to the next in your blood line, thats how that works.

Keeping ones word was very basic but important role to fulfill in this society centered upon the concept of honor, it was to preserve life. Without it and with widespread breaking of word there would be rampant killing and the society would wipe itself out.

[Atvend]

The legend is not Slavic, the legend is pagan. Sacrifice of a person, often a symbol of fertility such as a woman in child bearing age, so that the construction of a project may succeed is a commonly occurring theme in several pagan legends. I have personally heard the same story for the other castles in Albania, I understand that many other cultures also have their own versions. For example Curtea de Argeș Cathedral.