Three dead as Greece protest turns violent

[SuuT]

The FED does for years now what the EZB is not allowed to, namely buy up its own US-bonds if there is a need!

Thats like a system which eats its own shit, that won't work forever, especially not in a debt based - interest rate system, because who is supposed to pay that rates?

If the dollar loses its appeal, I wrote about the ressource-based value of the dollar in many fields already, then this won't work out any more. Its the main security behind this scheme.

The Capitalisation of the world is already beyond every reason, you could buy up the whole world various times with all that digital money around!



Its absurd, everybody knows that who cares for the issue, the derivates in particular made the speculative market explode in a totally destructive way.

If the EZB would have done that, no problem at all, but for that the rules in Europe would have to be changed and it might result in a FED-system 2.0 in Europe.

Even though the European politicians are totally corrupted, some still dont want that, but its the only thing close to whats needed in the moment the plutocracy would allow, thats the problem.

In the US they did everything to prolong the financial-interest rate cycle, it started with the removal of the Glass-Steagall Act latest, which was a good law, a really good law, absolutely necessary especially for the situation in the USA.

What happened now with Goldman Sachs & Co. wouldnt have possible otherwise, especially if looking how they betrayed their own customers.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass%E2%80%93Steagall_Act

That says something about your "parties" too, tweedledee and tweedledum I mean...

The whole deregulation of the markets, financial markets in particular, had to result in huge bubbles in the current debt-interest rate based system, that was inevitable. On the other hand it allowed an even greater confusion and cover-ups of financial manipulations, that was what they seem to have looked for.

Now you have the results and their next moves are everything but friendly to the interests of the people...

I am aware of and agree with all of that. What I'm doing a poor job of saying is that there is less relative digital/fake wealth floating around within American fiscal boundaries than there is in European markets: It's a far more diverse portfolio in America that is ultra-heavy in tangible assets. The best evidence for that is the reality that if Germany, France, all of Scandinavia and the U.K were to financially implode, America would slip into a depression but would survive. Whereas if America were to financially implode, the whole of the world would revert to a barter economy. ...which might not be so bad.

[Don]

None of the dead were responsible of the problematic situation reached in Greece.

As usual, the people on charge and responsible of these tragic events, don't pay with their money, life quality neither with their lives the consequences of their incompetence.

[Agrippa]

I am aware of and agree with all of that. What I'm doing a poor job of saying is that there is less relative digital/fake wealth floating around within American fiscal boundaries than there is in European markets: It's a far more diverse portfolio in America that is ultra-heavy in tangible assets. The best evidence for that is the reality that if Germany, France, all of Scandinavia and the U.K were to financially implode, America would slip into a depression but would survive. Whereas if America were to financially implode, the whole of the world would revert to a barter economy. ...which might not be so bad.

I think you somehow confuse the financial system and its dependencies, all build around the FED-system with the real economy.

In fact, it would be rather the other way around, at least if Europe would be allowed an independent and adequate policy.

Because if you look at how the structures in the USA being ruined, you get an idea of what would be left without the imports from the rest of the world.

The trade balance deficit of the USA is a catastrophy and only works out because of this financial-dollar fraud, once that is over, the USA would slip into something like a 3rd World economy with a huge, largely oversized military apparatus and some high level sectors, obviously nothing which could happen in a peaceful and nice way you might guess...

The real asset of the USA is the country itself, a large country with many good soils, large free space, many ressources available, basically a rich country. Just imagine Germany would have had that...

Thats the real thing Americans can build upon which f.e. Germany and Japan can't, which would be otherwise much better off, because if looking at the basic structures, the USA are coming down - but at least are not as likely to starve to death with that country...

Its absurd, but the whole trade balance issue being related to the fact, that the USA use the dollar like a drug for an addict, the other countries depend on the money flow, even if they get little else in return but dollars with which they can primarily buy ressources, which they could buy with another currency - like their own - without this US dominance.

The problem is the lack of independent financial structures in Europe which are a real alternative, but thats something I want to fight for.

[SuuT]

You are talking too many "what if" scenarios and hypotheticals for me to be able to follow you adequately. I'm no fan of the global Plutocracy either, but your increasing verve of dislike for America's part in the play is indicative of a fundamental misunderstanding of modern Macroeconomics.

As you say, the fundamental resource of America is it's country, i.e. the diversity of it's tangible assets portfolio. The trade balance deficit of the USA is a catastrophy, yes, and only works out because of a (not the) financial-dollar fraud, yes, but what you fail to realise is when the numbers are crunched for speculative wealth relative to actual holders of speculative assets not only does Europe (if considered as a whole, including Scandianavia) stalwartly outweigh holdings of this digital wealth, it is in much greater peril to market fluctuations than the U.S. for that very reason as we are seeing come to fruition right now. America only owns roughly 50% of it's own speculative wealth...lol that's what's funniest about economic America bashing, in my opinion: My European bretheren own more of America per person than AMericans, but AMerica is somehow the bastion repository of and for the economic enslavement of the western world. I'm sorry, but that's not how the numbers crunch, for the 'home' of the Plutocracy in the entire western world (primarily) - those are it's boundaries. America is not the heart of the problem, but it is a main artery of a macroeconomic system that is wrapped firmly around everyone. And, as had been stated, Greece is the canary in the European mine: Europe is now set to face the wave that hit the US and those who think that that already happened are sadly mistaken and unprepared.

[Agrippa]

Well, there were various frauds with the dollar and US-financial system already. In fact, the Oil crisis at the end of the 1970's just took away wealth and investments from the the FRG and Japan, they had to spend a large fraction of their dollar reserves for the ressources.

Many countries today really work, in a macro-economic sense if you prefer that, to a large degree for nothing in return to keep up the American bubble. FRG, Japan and China really finance that war machine and plutocratic power, indirectly at least, thats so perverted about it, especially if talking about a "free market policy".

Yes, it didnt start in the USA, thats true, nor are the USA the only infected country, but they are the primary host for the parasite right now and there were and are various characteristics of the system and people, which existed even before that, which made it much easier for the plutocrats to make it their new than f.e. in France, Germany or Russia, what we might sum up with Continental Europe.

Its still largely the USA and GB and without those two the system would surely crumbly right now.

Looking at things as they are, the USA are the main mercenary, the military arm, centre of propaganda and manipulation, the financial system - in some respects together with GB, especially the City of London and show one of the lowest possibilities to really challenge the system.

So simple put, they are the force which keeps it up, defends it and will be a great obstacle for the freedom of the other people and nations. Thats just how it is.

The whole health care debate, the constant economic Liberalism, the Evangelicals and connection of Creationists with "Conservatism" etc., all of that shows a fundamental problem of the USA, namely the inability to really change their mind.

The Germans now are a lousy bunch, I know that better than you, so are many other European people, but once you get through to them with a message and show them the truth - which I dont know if it will ever happen in my short lifetime - then you can be sure there will be a correct and STRONG reaction. It will be about principles, for the group and the personal interests together.

In the USA the people are just fatalistic, partly because of the Christian-Calvinist and Liberalcapitalist indoctrination, they not only believe in the "politically correct crap" but really in THIS Capitalist system to a large degree.

People saying that "the state" is responsible and a "small state" could be a solution, back to Christian and constitution values, the Individualist freedom etc., heck where the hell are they living, in a paleolithic cave?

Alex Jones is just a perfect example for what I mean, he got so many things right, he is, with all his faults, really an enrichment, but in the end he too being stucked in the American disease. As if "Nazis and Fascists" have anything to do with the Rockefellers-Rothschilds and Plutocratic Oligarchy.

In fact, those were the only groups which really posed a threat to their rule in the last centuries and he lumps them together for the average American-Joe as if what happens now being a "Nazi-plan". Thats so ridiculous, its close to the "Dinosaurs played with children 5000 years B.C."

As small as European groups of resistance might be, they have an attitude which is in way "more sane and complete", which the Americans seem, as a rule and with all the exceptions, simply lack. I dont know for how long, or every reason, I can just observe it. They can only work in a sane way on small, local level. As soon as it comes to ideology, to a more complete worldview and their greater interests, they seem to have been beaten on the head too often.

If I speak with "re-educated" Europeans, they have a lot of crap in their heads too, but thats more of the sort "normal crap", like Hedomatism, rationalised Cultural Marxism, meaningful Christian Conservatism, real Marxism etc.
All things I despise, but they can be fixed by fixing some logical fallaces, ruining the manipulation and putting things straight again.

Thats much harder in the US of A, and while there are individually very great persons there, the situation as a whole seems to be so completely fucked up, that I have more trust in a change coming from Brazil or Argentina than the USA. The only thing I expect from the USA is pressure, pressure, pressure coming from the plutocrats, a demand for money, people, power, money, people, power and finally that they might throw bombs on those which dont comply to the Plutocratic New World Order.

I just hope I'm wrong, but I see little reason right now. So the USA are a problem for Europe, whether I like that fact or not.

[Troll's Puzzle]

So true. We're the EU's beta-testers...

what are you talking about? the whole EU is a beta test.
the only thing 'special' about Greece in that is, as the weakest link, it popped first.

Next in line: Spain, Portugal, Italy

ie: 'if you're Med you're Dead'

[Absinthe]

ie: 'if you're Med you're Dead'

That should be printed on T-shirts and souvenirs...

[Agrippa]

what are you talking about? the whole EU is a beta test.
the only thing 'special' about Greece in that is, as the weakest link, it popped first.

Next in line: Spain, Portugal, Italy

ie: 'if you're Med you're Dead'

Great Britain and Ireleand are not that much better off actually.

The Dutch have harsh social cuts too.

It spreads around I guess, but the British have more "international" support it seems and are a financial centre by themselves, while Greece is really just a small fish so to say and therefore an even easier target for the speculators.

Interestingly Japan has a deficit of 200 percent - but the rating agencies react still rather moderately, because "there is trust"...

[SwordoftheVistula]

European banks and governments have much more invested here than vice versa. Also, people have more understanding of economics here, and until recently the major businesses and industries were not nearly as controlled by the government.

I'm not going to post huge essays by Hayek here, the concepts are very simple:

If someone, including a government, does not go into debt, they do not need to worry about what interest rates are being charged.

Regulations and taxes inhibit economic growth. A country like Greece, where opening a simple business such as a hotel takes 10, 20 years, maybe not at all, is not going to have much economic growth from new businesses. If it costs more to ship a load from one part of the country to Athens than from Athens to London, you are not going to have a very efficient economy. The less economic growth you have, the harder it is for a government to get tax revenue, and the more people come to the government looking for support, so the more likely it is that the government will not be able to balance its budget and go into debt. If a company has to go through a huge long process with a labor board to lay off workers who are no longer needed, they are far less likely to hire people in the first place, and unemployment will be higher. If you've got a huge amount of people on state employment, state pensions, and state benefits, and not much economic activity in the private sector to support all this, you are headed for disaster. All these financial shenanigans can prop up the system for a while, but not forever.

[SwordoftheVistula]

Great Britain and Ireleand are not that much better off actually.

The Dutch have harsh social cuts too.

It spreads around I guess, but the British have more "international" support it seems and are a financial centre by themselves, while Greece is really just a small fish so to say and therefore an even easier target for the speculators.

Interestingly Japan has a deficit of 200 percent - but the rating agencies react still rather moderately, because "there is trust"...

Japan still makes stuff. Toyota, Honda, Suzuki, Panasonic, Sony, etc. Even if some of the low level manufacturing is now done in China, the nexus is still in Japan, R&D and so on. What is actually produced in those other countries? What R&D is there? What companies and industries are based out of there? Not much