UK or France: which is more left-wing overall?

[Tooting Carmen]

^^^^^^^dis;

plus the british have been known to heavily protect da gheys since the british are some of the most homosexual people to exist bar maybe american prisoners.

France legalised homosexuality two centuries before Britain did...

[♥ Lily ♥]

I think France as 'Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité!' is the national motto of France. ('Liberty, Egality, Fraternity.') The French also had a revolution to remove their monarchy system to create more equality amongst their citizens.

In the UK, we still have a traditional hierarchal system in society. The only revolution held in Great Britain was the Industrial Revolution and a lot of workhouses and factories were created at the time. Workhouses were dreaded places for very poor people to be sent to live and work. They were home to millions of poor people. Many people tried hard to avoid being sent to a workhouse, as many people suffered and died in those places, and their bodies would be chucked-out with the rubbish afterwards.



Child labour was also common in the UK, along with a high infant mortality rate during the Victorian era - despite the English population more than doubling at the time, with many people living in small and overly-crammed shared rooms in houses. Poorer children from the working-class were subjected to long and tiring hours of physical labour and manual work in dangerous conditions, such as operating machines in factories, which caused them injuries... and as chimney-sweeps, (children were small enough to enter inside narrow chimneys to clean them,) whilst breathing-in dirt and cleaning-out soot in high chimneys, for the upper classes and aristocracy of society.

Irish people were also treated horrifically as slaves by the British. The British are often accused by other nations of creating mass genocide and are accused of being warmongers who side with the US and with other Anglosphere nations in many modern-day wars with the Middle Eastern nations, Libya, Syria, etc. The British Empire is often accused of being a racist, imperial, bloodthirsty, evil empire by people around the globe.

Millions more people died globally from starvation, exploitation, child labour, torture, slavery, theft of resources, and wars during the British Empire, (ie;- Amerindians in the North American continent, Aboriginal Australians, Indians, Chinese people (who were poisoned by the British ruling elite, who made huge profits from drugging the Chinese and reducing their population by hooking them onto opium during the British-Chinese opium wars,) and millions of African people too,) than the amount of Russians, Polish, Jewish, gypsy, and European people who were killed by the Nazi German national socialists during WW2.

The British invented asylums and psychiatric hospitals, and they were notorious during the Victorian Era... especially the horrific history surrounding Bethlam Royal Hospital (dubbed as 'Bedlam') where patients were experimented on and subjected to torture and very cruel treatment. The place has inspired horror movies and books: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethlem_Royal_Hospital

Children in France aren't required by compulsory national law to wear smart school uniforms... and so they can dress casually and freely as they choose in primary, junior, and secondary schools.

French children are given a sense of freedom from an early age in being allowed to dress as they choose in schools. I definitely think that French and American people (which are both Republic nations and free from a ruling Monarch,) have more rights, freedom of speech, and liberties in life, than people in the more restrictive United Kingdom.

In the UK, children soon learn which social class group they belong to, and after years of brainwashing in state schools, become like a brick in an oppressive wall.

In France, national schools are more secular and have less religious brainwashing and indoctrination than in the UK.

The French also created the US female Statue of Liberty, and the French played a massive role in sending troops to help the US with their revolutionary and independence wars against Great Britain, and the French opposed imperialism and slavery of the British Empire, before the US took over from the British in ruling the world, shortly after WW2.

The U.S. Declaration of Independence was signed in Paris. The French built the White House (which was once sieged and burned-down by the Canadian and British troops.)

The crusade for popular capitalism began with Thatcher (a leader of the Conservative Party) in England, aka 'The Iron Lady,' and a close friend of Ronald Reagan, (she was opposed to unnatural ideologies of equality of all citizens, national socialism, and communism.... which goes against human competition, natural selection, suvival of the fittest and best species only, and the iron lores of social Darwinism in nature.)

In France, it's considered as polite etiquette to kiss cheeks multiple times with people during formal meetings and greetings, (including men cheek-kissing other men druing formal greetings,) but in the UK, people just shake hands.

0:17


British people recently voted for U.K. Independence and to leave the EU.

Marine Le Pen is supportive of Brexit and would like to see France independently governed away from the EU control that makes the vast majority of laws in the EU governed states;- but she didn't win in the last French General Election.

More anger and protests against Islamisation has happened in the UK than in France, with mosques being set on fire, and groups like UKIP, the BNP, EDL (English Defence League,) and other groups too, rising-up in anger after Islamic terrorist attacks.

I've not seen as much public anger, protests, mosques being burned down, and right-wing groups rising up in France as in the UK, as the French seem more passive than the British - even after all the Islamic terrorist attacks in France.


A poodle is the national dog of France, whereas a British Bulldog is the national dog of Great Britain. National leaders in the UK with a fierce fighting spirit are often described as having a 'British bulldog spirit.' (Churchill and Thatcher are often cited as having the British bulldog spirit, for example.)


Most people are right-handed, and so traditionally, people travelling along roads on horseback would keep to the left side of the lane... so their right hand would be free to draw their swords if an enemy approached them in the other lane. (The practice of driving on the left side of the road and right side of the vehicle is still practiced in the UK, Ireland, Australia, Japan, amongst other nations. https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...de-Of-The-Road)

The French are seen as being more civilised and were more diplomatic and they drive on the right side of the road and the left hand side of the vehicle.

For many years, French was the international language of diplomacy during peace-talks between nations.

1:02 - a movie scene depicting the fierce and bloody battles during British vs French and Indian wars over Canada.


There was also the 100 years war between England and France, and the burning of Joan of Arc at the stake;- who is the national heroine of France. She said she heard 'voices' in her head from 'god'. She dressed and disguised herself as a man, (for a female to dress as a man was historically an offence, punishable by death in Great Britain.) She led French military troops against the English in France, before the English soldiers captured her and burned her to death as a witch at the stake in a public execution. Also, many years later, Napoleon also got defeated after he tried to take over Europe.

Sir Samuel Romilly, speaking to the House of Commons on capital punishment in 1810, declared that "there is no country on the face of the earth in which there have been so many different offences according to law to be punished with death as in England".

Known as the "Bloody Code", at its height the criminal law included some 220 crimes punishable by death, including "being in the company of Gypsies for one month", "strong evidence of malice in a child aged 7–14 years of age" and "blacking the face or using a disguise whilst committing a crime". Many of these offences had been introduced to protect the property of the wealthy classes that emerged during the first half of the 18th century, a notable example being the Black Act of 1723, which created 50 capital offences for various acts of theft and poaching.

Crimes eligible for the death penalty included shoplifting and stealing sheep, cattle, and horses, and before abolition of the death penalty for theft in 1832, "English law was notorious for prescribing the death penalty for a vast range of offenses as slight as the theft of goods valued at twelve pence."

Whilst executions for murder, burglary and robbery were common, the death sentences for minor offenders were often not carried out. A sentence of death could be commuted or respited (permanently postponed) for reasons such as benefit of clergy, official pardons, pregnancy of the offender or performance of military or naval duty. Between 1770 and 1830, an estimated 35,000 death sentences were handed down in England and Wales, but only 7,000 executions were carried out.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capita...United_Kingdom

The French invented the gulliotine, which was a quick and more humane form of execution.

For many centuries in the British Isles, people would be slowly tortured to confess with a range of torture devices while they were locked inside torture chambers, burned to death, ducked and drowned, or 'hanged, drawn, and quartered' (a brutal method of hanging people - and then slashing open their intestines and letting their guts and intestines spill-out into a fire before their eyes and death.)

Beheaded heads would be placed on the spikes of bridges as a public warning to others in the UK. Public executions were very gruesome in Great Britain, and would cause suffering and pain.

French castles are often ostentatious and very ornamental and decorative to look at. French castles look like they were designed for a visual display of wealth and beauty.

British castles aren't as decorative to look at as French architecture, but British castles have a lot of interesting history behind them, where fierce and bloody battles historically took place.

British castles were designed to be functional and practical defence fortresses, complete with a portcullis, trapdoors, drawbridges, dungeons, torture chambers, defensive moats, slitted windows for bows and arrows, etc.




Anyway, for over 100 years now, we have an 'Entente Cordiale' peace agreement in place between England and France.

Each year, this special relationship is celebrated with much pomp and ceremony, and the French President arrives to meet the Queen with British and French troops and flags lining the streets, etc.

The French also assisted the British during the Falklands War with the colonised nation of Argentina who oppose colonisation of the Falklands (and where billions of barrels of oil are currently being excavated,) by supplying the British with deadly missiles.

The French gave the world sociology and existentialism.

Sociology, (the highest of all social sciences - which requires much intense study about the psychology of people in societies and cultures, anthropology, history, understanding the class structure, all the various political structures and the various economic structures, marketing techniques, advertising tactics, propaganda, wars, sub-cultural and rebellious groups in society, the effects of music, the media, religions, and TV, on people in various cultures and societies, etc,) and also existentialist philosophy too... were both invented and formed in France.

Thatcher banned Open University sociology classes in the UK during her reign, as she felt that ordinary people learning about and acquiring knowledge of reality in society as a threat. Sociology doesn't teach idealisms, but about reality. Sociologists are often employed to advise governments and politicians about societal structures and current societal feelings, cultural and economic problems, beliefs, views, and attitudes, and by large companies for advice on marketing techniques to various groups of people in society, etc.

All sociologists are highly intelligent and aware people who state that religion, the mass media, soap operas, popular music, etc, is emotional brainwashing of the masses.... and she didn't want ordinary people from the lower classes to learn how governments use religion to brainwash masses of people in society and keep them down.

Our two powerful nations used to be very fierce rivals and mortal enemies, who were often at war with each other for many centuries, with both nations striving for power, and our nations were historically very competitive with each other. Today we share the same common enemy;- Islamisation.

We're allies today who cooperate with each other now, and together our two nations created the supersonic Concorde, (an elegant French design in the shape of a swan, with elite and prestigious British Rolls Royce engines hand-made in England,) and also the engineering marvel of undersea Eurotunnel, etc. (Although the English originally made Waterloo Station () the entry point for the French visiting the UK via Eurostar under the sea, until the £800 million renovation of the beautiful St Pancras International station in more recent years.)

[♥ Lily ♥]

Another difference is that Paris is the official dog-poop capital of the world. Lots of tourists in Paris frequently complain about the amount of dog poop on the pavements there.

The French just liberally let their dogs poop on the pavements.

Whereas in the stricter UK, people would be caught on cameras and fined if they don't clean-up their dog-mess with poop bags and scoopers.

The UK is the CCTV capital of the world, and we have stricter laws than France.

[Tooting Carmen]

Another difference is that Paris is the official dog-poop capital of the world. Lots of tourists in Paris frequently complain about the amount of dog poop on the pavements there.

The French just liberally let their dogs poop on the pavements.

Whereas in the stricter UK, people would be caught on cameras and fined if they don't clean-up their dog-mess with poop bags and scoopers.

The UK is the CCTV capital of the world, and we have stricter laws than France.

A rather questionable assertion. It is well-known that France is generally a more bureaucratic and regulated country than Britain.

[Tooting Carmen]

bump

[Dumas]

France: economically and socially.

- No need to discuss the economical point, it's rather obvious and already explained.

- Just look at today: a country choose isolation and anti immigrant policies, while the other elected a centrist in the middle of terrorist attacks. This very centrist would actually be considered a liberal in the UK or the US (Obama style). In France this centrist is often considered right ring by some.

- There is an assumption in OP's statement: that liberal = left wing, more open etc. That may be true in the anglosaxon world or in an American campus, but not necessary in other cultures. Liberals aren't necessary more leftist or more tolerant. Many liberal economic policies for example are very right ring.

- Many think that the UK are more liberal on "race" or socially because of oversimplification and social media. It often boils down to things like : "I visited downtown London and it was more diverse than downtown Paris" then the UK are more tolerant. Or "There is more diversity in the BBC than in France24" then the UK is more liberal. These are superficial judgments and don't represent the society as a whole. English media are more powerful and push harder this diversity agenda than the French ones. This explains why many people have this cliché of a more tolerant UK (which really applies only to London).

- French culture "mixes" more than English and this is a good indicator of how inclusive a society is. Mixed weddings for example are traditionally more common in France. It's now trendy in the UK and big American cities for different reasons, but it wasn't the case not so long ago. You can also compare French Louisiana with Anglo America, or French colonies vs UK colonies in Africa. French tend to segregate less than England.
The French ghettos (banlieues) are very diverse while English ghettos are ethnic enclaves. The City district in London is very diverse but it's a professional area, people are gathered by greed from all over the world. They are all rich, no social diversity. It's not representative of England.

- There is more social mobility in France. Actually the UK is one of the worst country in Europe for social mobility.

- Immigration: this is a point where anglo-liberals are very hypocritical because the UK (or the US in this case) screens immigrants way harder than France. The UK have a better quality immigration and this lead to less integration issues. Take an extreme example: a son of Nigerian doctor will do better in general than the son of an illiterate refugee from Congo. But the same refugee would probably never be welcome in England, instead he'll end up in Paris or Brussels. So that doesn't mean the UK are more open to immigrants. If you doubt about it check visa requirements or just wonder why Calais exist...

- In the UK you feel very much this class society, especially in prestigious schools.

- Now an interesting point: religion and especially Islam. The UK seems more flexible on this point. Or rather more indifferent. I wouldn't say more accepting because of one thing: the Muslim populations are different in the 2 countries. The UK had the "chance" to have a big influx of middle class Indians, more moderate (culturally speaking) and more educated. French muslim population comes from North and West Africa, poor and uneducated, from villages and rural areas (especially from the 60's to the 90's). They carry conservative and traditional values, very reactionary too.
In France, beside west africans who tend to be moderate, NA are often more proselyte and conservative. They often mix religion and politics (anti west feelings) which results in a more aggressive form of islam than in England (I compare with what I've seen in the UK: pakistani and somali).

[Visage pâle]

This is an interesting debate, and it can go either way. On the one hand, the British are (arguably) somewhat more liberal about race, immigration, gender roles and possibly even nowadays sexuality than are the French. (The debates regarding gay marriage were much more polarised and vitriolic in France than in the UK). On the other hand, the French have a strictly-enforced 35-hour working week, a bigger welfare state, a lot more wholly or partly State-owned companies and industries, more active trade unions, and stricter laws regarding hiring and firing workers. In short, this ultimately comes down to whether you consider social issues or economic issues to be more important.

Economically France is more left, no question. Now on immigration, french "far right" is the strongest of Europe since decades, in UK it's nearly unexistant. So i would say there are more reactions against immigration in France.

[Dandelion]

Britain is more PC, hence my vote for them. It is only more left wing on that. I guess Britain is more authoritarian a society rather.

[Dacul]

My opinion:
France is a leftist country.
Such a leftist country that is restraining the freedom of speech, because of the Leftist purposes.

[Dumas]

Economically France is more left, no question. Now on immigration, french "far right" is the strongest of Europe since decades, in UK it's nearly unexistant. So i would say there are more reactions against immigration in France.

Far right parties don't exist in the US and UK due to their political system. Yet both voted recently for far right ideas, not France. The far right ideas do exist in these countries but are part of the conservative party. So political parties are not a good measurement (also the FN in France isn't that radical compared to other nationalist parties in other countries).