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Thread: Reich: Yamnaya brought R1b to Europe

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    Default Reich: Yamnaya brought R1b to Europe

    Wow! Big news, don't you agree? One has to celebrate. During years, first Iberian, then Neolithic Anatolian, R1b had been misrepresented. The study of the clades shows clearly it spread fast, East to West, following the spread of IE languages (it could not be a coincidence!). Finally!

    ps Not to mention Klyosov theory that it was North African!

    http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...ary-2015/page5

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    This is what Roy King said:

    I'm very certain that R1b will be found in the aDNA Samara/Yamnaya samples from Reich's comments. Phylogeographically it makes sense--M73 and M269 are sister clades and both are found among Bashkirs and other Middle Eastern/Central Asian populations, eg among Tajiks and in the Iranian samples along the South Caspian. L23 variance is actually highest in Pakistan! I've said very little for two reasons: 1) I am an academic and honor the peer review process and 2) I have been a major proponent of J2 convecting the first Neolithic farmers to Europe which is clearly now not the case, with G2a taking preeminence.
    That said, R1b surfed from the Eastern/Northern Caspian all the way into Europe with, probably, some R1b-L23 migrating from the Balkans into Anatolia, ferrying the Anatolian languages there.

    February 9, 2015 at 6:46 PM
    https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?bl...8&isPopup=true

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    Quote Originally Posted by curupira View Post
    Wow! Big news, don't you agree? One has to celebrate. During years, first Iberian, then Neolithic Anatolian, R1b had been misrepresented. The study of the clades shows clearly it spread fast, East to West, following the spread of IE languages (it could not be a coincidence!). Finally!

    ps Not to mention Klyosov theory that it was North African!

    http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...ary-2015/page5
    Thanks for the thread. I was wondering why people here weren't discussing this. I'm really excited about it. It fits in with a lot of things I've noticed about genetics over the last few years and of course reading Anthrogenica has been most informative.

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    I'll add some interesting points I've picked up. ANE linked to R1b and R1a and both travelled to Europe with the Indo-Europeans.

    This obviously explains the high Gedrosia and ANE in the British Isles (especially the Celtic areas).

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    Where is the source?

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    Quote Originally Posted by blogen View Post
    Where is the source?
    Read the Anthrogenica thread. There is also a huge amount of discussion on Eurogenes. There are links in both of them.

    http://eurogenes.blogspot.com.au/201...d-seminar.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grace O'Malley View Post
    Read the Anthrogenica thread. There is also a huge amount of discussion on Eurogenes. There are links in both of them.
    http://eurogenes.blogspot.com.au/201...d-seminar.html
    OK, so we wait onto a proper publication.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blogen View Post
    OK, so we wait onto a proper publication.
    Of course there will be a publication coming but from the horse's mouth. Quoted from Jean Manco who attended the seminar from Prof Reich. He said that R1a and R1b had travelled with the Indo-Europeans.* I cannot recall the exact form of words. On one slide, as I said, both CW and BB contained all three of his components. We know that there was R1b in BB in Germany. I really cannot tell you any more. He was not specific about the Y-DNA in Samara or Iberian Bell Beaker.

    *Added: I have found my note. He said in the question session that Yamnaya had brought R1a and R1b to Europe.

    The writing is on the wall and people have been discussing this topic for years and have a really good knowledge on the subject. A lot of people have been saying R1b is Indo-European and it ties in very well with ANE levels in places like Ireland and Scotland. Of course the logical way of thinking is how is Indo-European languages spoken by 95% R1b if those languages didn't come with them? R1b in Western Europe is only about 4,000 years old at the most and it obviously had an eastern route. This has been obvious to anyone looking at y-dna information at FTDNA and of course the hobbyists are always ahead of the scientists on this.
    Last edited by Grace O'Malley; 02-10-2015 at 08:48 AM.

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    I find it odd. First of all, both Yamnaya and Corded Ware are expressions of same ethnic group with a huge cultural/racial overlap, as one would expect considering they were the first stage of breakup in Aryan ethnos.

    Then, why would Basques or Spanish people have such a high incidence of R1b, if that came from Aryans? It's obvious that while Iberians were influenced by Aryans (via Kelts), it's also clear that element CANNOT be dominant in people such as Basques (Iberian speakers) or Spaniards (Romanized Iberians).

    Also, I find it hard to believe that most of Western Europe ancestry is Aryan (as R1b would indicate). At every point in history, pre-Aryan elements have always been dominant in the mix that followed Keltic invasions (be it local CM or neolithic elements). Today this is even more apparent than it was in Antiquity: no more than 10% of Western Europeans are "Nordids".

    Once again, DNA evidence proves worthless in determining people ancestries.

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