Reich: Yamnaya brought R1b to Europe

[blogen]

sorry but their is one major problem about the conclusion that yamna r1b is ancestral to western europeean r1b. The yamnaya samples belonged to r1b-2103 which is a near eastern/southern caucasus subclade and not ancestral to western european r1b so yamna males there are not the paternal ancestors of most r1b carriers in western europe. Either they orginated in the near east or less likely they brought r1b-2103 to the near east. But western europe was not really impacted by them.
Attachment 55005

Then, these problems are solved:

That is a serious problem!

Firstly:

1. In this case, the Aryans in the Andronovo culture were assimilated local peoples (Botai, etc.), presumably R1a Uralic speakers.
2. So the R1a carriers were the pre-Indoeuropean mesolithic peoples.
3. The R1a Corded Ware peoples were not ancestors of the Western European R1b peoples.
4. So what was the route of the R1b indoeuropaization of Western-Europe?
5. And what was the origin of the Bellbeaker R1b in Central Europe?

I think, this steppic R1b is a paralell phenomenon with the Western European R1b.

The steppic R1b not connected to the Western European R1b and the R1a Corded Ware peoples were not the ancestors of the Western European R1b peoples.

Nothing changed.

[blogen]

But we know only one thing: Lot of local Sarmatian origin Alans were between the ancestors of the middle Volga valley Turks and basically some Chuvash peoples are the living descendants of these Yamna peoples.

[Grace O'Malley]

But we know only one thing: Lot of local Sarmatian origin Alans were between the ancestors of the middle Volga valley Turks and basically some Chuvash peoples are the living descendants of these Yamna peoples.

This is my brother's K13 admixed results. We both get some Chuvash. It's a bit of a coincidence that these groups turn up. It does show some deep ancestry from these areas so what can explain that better than R1b and along with high ANE which has to have come from the Steppes. It is just plain logic to me.

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 97.4% Irish + 2.6% Kalash @ 2.03
2 97.6% Irish + 2.4% Balochi @ 2.05
3 97.7% Irish + 2.3% Brahui @ 2.07
4 97% Irish + 3% Tabassaran @ 2.11
5 97.6% Irish + 2.4% Burusho @ 2.14
6 97.3% Irish + 2.7% Afghan_Pashtun @ 2.14
7 97.2% Irish + 2.8% Chechen @ 2.15
8 97.7% Irish + 2.3% Punjabi_Jat @ 2.17
9 97.3% Irish + 2.7% Lezgin @ 2.17
10 97.5% Irish + 2.5% North_Ossetian @ 2.18
11 97.9% Irish + 2.1% Makrani @ 2.18
12 97.5% Irish + 2.5% Ossetian @ 2.18
13 97.4% Irish + 2.6% Kabardin @ 2.19
14 97.7% Irish + 2.3% Pathan @ 2.19
15 97.9% Irish + 2.1% Sindhi @ 2.2
16 97.2% Irish + 2.8% Tadjik @ 2.2
17 97.5% Irish + 2.5% Balkar @ 2.21
18 97.6% Irish + 2.4% Adygei @ 2.23
19 97.6% Irish + 2.4% Afghan_Tadjik @ 2.27
20 98.1% Irish + 1.9% Abhkasian @ 2.27

[Arhat]

This is my brother's K13 admixed results. We both get some Chuvash. It's a bit of a coincidence that these groups turn up. It does show some deep ancestry from these areas so what can explain that better than R1b and along with high ANE which has to have come from the Steppes. It is just plain logic to me.

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 97.4% Irish + 2.6% Kalash @ 2.03
2 97.6% Irish + 2.4% Balochi @ 2.05
3 97.7% Irish + 2.3% Brahui @ 2.07
4 97% Irish + 3% Tabassaran @ 2.11
5 97.6% Irish + 2.4% Burusho @ 2.14
6 97.3% Irish + 2.7% Afghan_Pashtun @ 2.14
7 97.2% Irish + 2.8% Chechen @ 2.15
8 97.7% Irish + 2.3% Punjabi_Jat @ 2.17
9 97.3% Irish + 2.7% Lezgin @ 2.17
10 97.5% Irish + 2.5% North_Ossetian @ 2.18
11 97.9% Irish + 2.1% Makrani @ 2.18
12 97.5% Irish + 2.5% Ossetian @ 2.18
13 97.4% Irish + 2.6% Kabardin @ 2.19
14 97.7% Irish + 2.3% Pathan @ 2.19
15 97.9% Irish + 2.1% Sindhi @ 2.2
16 97.2% Irish + 2.8% Tadjik @ 2.2
17 97.5% Irish + 2.5% Balkar @ 2.21
18 97.6% Irish + 2.4% Adygei @ 2.23
19 97.6% Irish + 2.4% Afghan_Tadjik @ 2.27
20 98.1% Irish + 1.9% Abhkasian @ 2.27

i dont get your point. Everyone in northern europe has some "chuvash" components. A russian with haplogroup I will have much more chuvash genes than you but this does not mean that haplogroup I is the reason for that. This yamna males orginated from the near east where most r1a-z2103 is found today. Western european r1b is not directly derived from yamna and we still have no idea from where it orginated

[blogen]

i dont get your point. Everyone in northern europe has some "chuvash" components. A russian with haplogroup I will have much more chuvash genes than you but this does not mean that haplogroup I is the reason for that. This yamna males orginated from the near east where most r1a-z2103 is found today. Western european r1b is not directly derived from yamna and we still have no idea from where it orginated

Bell_Beaker_LN Bell Beaker LN Quedlinburg VII 2, Germany; QLB28b, feature 19617 2296-2206 cal BCE (MAMS 22820) Germany M H1 R1b1a2a1a2 91757

[Grace O'Malley]

Well it is interesting that R1a is lacking in Yamnaya and it is still quite amazing that R1b is there and a lot of people would have expected the opposite.

[Arhat]

Bell_Beaker_LN Bell Beaker LN Quedlinburg VII 2, Germany; QLB28b, feature 19617 2296-2206 cal BCE (MAMS 22820) Germany M H1 R1b1a2a1a2 91757

many assume that the bell beaker were not indo-european or indo-europeanized through contact with the corded war culture. Their subclades are absent in the steppe and none of western european r1b was found in asia. Allmost all r1b in asia seems to be z2103 so maybe some in the steppe or in asia got r1b from this yamna males but not western europeans

[Grace O'Malley]

i dont get your point. Everyone in northern europe has some "chuvash" components. A russian with haplogroup I will have much more chuvash genes than you but this does not mean that haplogroup I is the reason for that. This yamna males orginated from the near east where most r1a-z2103 is found today. Western european r1b is not directly derived from yamna and we still have no idea from where it orginated

Well I am Northern European and of course Russians would have more been from that vacinity but it does show ancestry from these places and I don't think everyone's results are the same.

[Grace O'Malley]

Ireland is high in both ANE and R1b so the R1b in Ireland came from a high ANE area.

Well whatever people think it is very interesting and hopefully on the way to solving R1b in Europe.

[curupira]

You're still keeping on it, aren't you? All males in Yamnaya were R1b-M269, R1b-L23, just as the majority of the males in Europe. The clade of most of these males is a brother clade of that which went to Western Europe. The association between R1b and IE languages is now pretty clear. In Samara, an older R1b was found.

The clade found is closely connected to that which spread later to Western Europe, they are both R1b-M269, R1b-L23 clades:

sorry but their is one major problem about the conclusion that yamna r1b is ancestral to western europeean r1b. The yamnaya samples belonged to r1b-2103 which is a near eastern/southern caucasus subclade and not ancestral to western european r1b so yamna males there are not the paternal ancestors of most r1b carriers in western europe. Either they orginated in the near east or less likely they brought r1b-2103 to the near east. But western europe was not really impacted by them.
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