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Thread: Reich: Yamnaya brought R1b to Europe

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    Quote Originally Posted by curupira View Post
    Exactly, the timeframe of IE languages in Western Europe coincides with the spread of R1b. There is no R1b in either Mesolithic or Neolithic Europe. How could it get to Western Europe and become the dominant lineage there if not with the spread of IE languages?
    "The Kurgan theory apparently has inverted the roles of the NIE (R1b) and the IE (R1a). The Kurgan theory is in error in ascribing kurgans, nomadism, and the domestication of horses to speakers of IE who lived around 7000 ybp. Instead, these cultural features should be ascribed to NIEs (R1b) who migrated westward. Gimbutas claims that IE speakers migrated to Europe three times--first, between 6400 and 6300 ybp; second, around 5500 ybp (from the area North of the Black Sea); third, between 5000 and 4800 ybp (allegedly from the Volga steppes). These claims are unsupportable. There were no IEs (R1a) in the Volga steppes between 5000 and 4800 ybp or earlier; they arrived between 4600 and 4300 ybp. Had they been in the steppes, they would have been moving from Europe eastward."

    https://www.google.de/url?sa=t&rct=j..._ytQEM1Iz4-EPQ
    Last edited by Proto-Shaman; 02-12-2015 at 11:19 AM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Kipchak Håkan View Post
    Then Prof. Reich is an embedded scientist following eurocentric ideals. 24.000 years ago there was no steppe in Siberia or do you consider the Karitiana people from Brazil also of Steppe ancestry?


    http://shinku.nichibun.ac.jp/jpub/pdf/jr/IJ1507.pdf

    There is no actual origin of IE's, there are too many theories. I don't believe in language families either.
    You read my link on Mal'ta Boy didn't you? Both Native Americans and Europeans are descended from a population in Siberia that was rich in ANE but the NAs left that region before Indo European languages. It's easy to understand and just because NAs has some ancestry from a similar source doesn't have anything to do with Indo-European languages like Celtic. You're just bringing in obvious red herrings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grace O'Malley View Post
    You read my link on Mal'ta Boy didn't you? Both Native Americans and Europeans are descended from a population in Siberia that was rich in ANE but the NAs left that region before Indo European languages. It's easy to understand and just because NAs has some ancestry from a similar source doesn't have anything to do with Indo-European languages like Celtic. You're just bringing in obvious red herrings.
    So you admit Native Americans are not IE? Thats fine, we make progress.

    I can't really see the direct IE connection you are speaking about btw:


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    Post up now on the subject by Razib Khan. "The core element seems to be that a paper will soon be published using ancient DNA results to conclude that Indo-European languages came to Europe from the Yamna culture of the Pontic Steppe ~4,000 years ago." Note that R1b in Europe is the same age. Anyway it is a nice and concise article on the subject for those who don't want to wade through all the other information on the Eurogenes blog and Anthrogenica.

    http://www.unz.com/gnxp/there-were-g...in-those-days/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kipchak Håkan View Post
    So you admit Native Americans are not IE? Thats fine, we make progress.

    I can't really see the direct IE connection you are speaking about btw:
    You will just have to read up on the topic. Some people choose what they want to believe despite all the evidence. You are one of the few dissenters and obviously have your own reasons. Anyway that map is not entirely accurate.

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    So R1b is Aryan too.

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    There is also some questions raised by Razib in his article and he doesn't appear to have the same understanding of the subject that some others have. One example is that he is saying that ANE is not only Indo-European and the Kalash have high amounts but I have read that ANE in Europe is from the Indo-European expansion but this was not the case in Asia. He also mentions Sardinia which has R1b but very little ANE but that can be explained by mixing with Farmers as Sardinians have a lot of Neolithic ancestry. The interesting thing is that R1b in places like Ireland have high ANE because the populations retain more of this Yamna ancestry due to isolation.

    I'm hoping someone like Jackson or Graham can comment further on the topic.

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    Even with R1b being associated with Yamnaya, they keep on that. Amazing!

    Quote Originally Posted by Grace O'Malley View Post
    You will just have to read up on the topic. Some people choose what they want to believe despite all the evidence. You are one of the few dissenters and obviously have your own reasons. Anyway that map is not entirely accurate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by curupira View Post
    Even with R1b being associated with Yamnaya, they keep on that. Amazing!
    They are in denial but don't worry, they will come around.

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    Quote Originally Posted by curupira View Post
    Exactly, the timeframe of IE languages in Western Europe coincides with the spread of R1b. There is no R1b in either Mesolithic or Neolithic Europe. How could it get to Western Europe and become the dominant lineage there if not with the spread of IE languages?
    But why is that it has a peak in Basques:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1b_%28Y-DNA%29
    Did Basques precede "Indo-Europeans" that came with R1b. Are Basques earlier than 3500 years in Spain? That's ludicruous...
    Are people from W Sicily 30% "Indo-European"? There is no documented presence of Aryans in W Sicily prior to Greco-Roman times. One would expect an all-time-low average for this region, but instead here we have among the highest ratio in Italy.

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